Marco Rose | OFFICIAL: Joining Dortmund at the end of the season

Sir Tanley Daft

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If you hire a guy from a notoriously pretentious and silly football tactics internet blog as your assistant, you are a hipster manager. Case closed.
For a 'silly football tactics blog' they have a surprising number of contributors in respectable jobs within the football industry. I really liked most of Maric's pieces but I have to agree that some of their other authors tend to overdo it with creating new football-lingo.
 

do.ob

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He must be. I'm just not sure why that's funny. The guy did a great analysis of one of Rose's games, Rose asked him to provide advice on some stuff, that went great, and so Rose hired him full-time. Maybe I'm missing something, but this makes all the sense in the world to me...?
Another one of the founding members was doing youth work for Hajduk Split last I heard, two others are sports journalists, one of the more recent writers is working as a coach for FC St. Gallen, another one as a scout for HSV. Christian Streich once complained that he's working all week on his tactics and the next day he can read everything on a blog and as far as I know Tuchel invited some of the writers to some kind of seminar once. I don't think you can expect much more credentials from a free to access blog.
And given that zonalmarking.com was basically the peak of analysis when they started out I think they have made a lasting impact, at least in the sphere of German fans who are interested in tactics.
 

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I'm not misunderstanding you. I'm just asking you why it would be reasonable to identify a person by an imaginary group of people who supposedly rate them. Especially when it apparently mostly applies to people who have built a fairly sizeable reputation based on the merit of their work.
you are misunderstanding me. I have no interest in who the manager being labelled is. Who the manager is, what they've done, what they will do, where they are from, how they do it - not relevant to the conversation. The fact people are saying at one time Mourinho or Wenger would have been hipter managers really ought to underline what I'm saying.

Essentially, you are arguing a straw man when you attempt to refute what I'm saying. We clearly have a different definition of what this term means and this is why we will not agree.

You think it's about the characteristics of the person being, in your view given the label, and I think it's about the subjective perspective of an observer irrespective of whom is being observed. These are two very different things.
 

tomaldinho1

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Serious question: were you even alive at that point? Because the 4-3-3 and variants of it were being played by numerous teams years before Jose rocked up. I mean, we were playing it in 2001/2, ffs!
I wish I were that young. He's widely credit as bringing the modern 433 to the PL - I'm sure other coaches had variations and maybe someone else should get the credit but it's widely accepted his 433 changed the PL because of the use of the DM and it completely destroyed 4-4-2 which was deployed by almost all teams at that time. Not my opinion, just google it and you'll find loads of articles.

Is Jose Mourinho planning to switch back to the 4-3-3 formation? (thefalse9.com)
What is the Makélélé Role | Tifo Football Encyclopedia - YouTube
 

Jibbs

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Don't worry guys... Rooney is getting ready to take over United wheels from Ole.
 

do.ob

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you are misunderstanding me. I have no interest in who the manager being labelled is. Who the manager is, what they've done, what they will do, where they are from, how they do it - not relevant to the conversation. The fact people are saying at one time Mourinho or Wenger would have been hipter managers really ought to underline what I'm saying.

Essentially, you are arguing a straw man when you attempt to refute what I'm saying. We clearly have a different definition of what this term means and this is why we will not agree.

You think it's about the characteristics of the person being, in your view given the label, and I think it's about the subjective perspective of an observer irrespective of whom is being observed. These are two very different things.
I know that hipster refers to the people who supposedly support these coaches, but I'm asking you again: how is it in any way relevant whether or not these so called hipsters rate a certain coach when talking about that coach? Especially to the degree that some people attach it to every mention of certain coaches.
Answer: it is not at all relevant and it says more about the person attaching the label than the person receiving it. The same way if someone were to call Solskjaer a "top red manager".
 

GaryLifo

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I know that hipster refers to the people who supposedly support these coaches, but I'm asking you again: how is it in any way relevant whether or not these so called hipsters rate a certain coach when talking about that coach? Especially to the degree that some people attach it to every mention of certain coaches.
Answer: it is not at all relevant and it says more about the person attaching the label than the person receiving it. The same way if someone were to call Solskjaer a "top red manager".
Then we don't disagree. I can't help you with the rest of your question as I have no idea about the relevance and never claimed to.
 

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He must be. I'm just not sure why that's funny. The guy did a great analysis of one of Rose's games, Rose asked him to provide advice on some stuff, that went great, and so Rose hired him full-time. Maybe I'm missing something, but this makes all the sense in the world to me...?
For a 'silly football tactics blog' they have a surprising number of contributors in respectable jobs within the football industry. I really liked most of Maric's pieces but I have to agree that some of their other authors tend to overdo it with creating new football-lingo.
Another one of the founding members was doing youth work for Hajduk Split last I heard, two others are sports journalists, one of the more recent writers is working as a coach for FC St. Gallen, another one as a scout for HSV. Christian Streich once complained that he's working all week on his tactics and the next day he can read everything on a blog and as far as I know Tuchel invited some of the writers to some kind of seminar once. I don't think you can expect much more credentials from a free to access blog.
And given that zonalmarking.com was basically the peak of analysis when they started out I think they have made a lasting impact, at least in the sphere of German fans who are interested in tactics.
I found the tone of the blog oftentimes rather silly and pretentious, aka hipsterish, sometimes in a cute way and sometimes in a bit obnoxious way; that doesn't mean their analyses are wrong or not insightful, or that there wasn't a lot to gain from reading it.

And yes, the fact that Rose hired a writer from the Spielverlagerung blog, as 'possession play analyst' or whatever the first gig was titled, makes him the quintessential hipster coach, in both senses: pertaining to himself and to the online football fan disciples he attracts.

But then of course any term or label, especially one with reactionary subtones as 'hipster coach' has them, says just as much about the people who use it as about the ones on whom it is used.
 
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Synco

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And yes, the fact that Rose hired a writer from the Spielverlagerung blog, as 'possession play anaylst' or whatever the first gig was, makes him the quintessential hipster coach, both pertaining to himself and to the online football fans followers he attracts.
I'm sure Rose simply thought Maric was a special analytical/coaching talent, and a possible asset for his team. The fact that he kept him ever since means he saw that assessment confirmed. Can't see what's hipsterish about that. On that level you get employment for performance.
 

do.ob

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I found the tone of the blog oftentimes rather silly and pretentious, aka hipsterish, sometimes in a cute way and sometimes in a bit obnoxious way; that doesn't mean their analyses are wrong or not insightful, or that there wasn't a lot to gain from reading it.

And yes, the fact that Rose hired a writer from the Spielverlagerung blog, as 'possession play analyst' or whatever the first gig was titled, makes him the quintessential hipster coach, in both senses: pertaining to himself and to the online football fan disciples he attracts.

But then of course any term or label, especially one with reactionary subtones as 'hipster coach' has them, says just as much about the people who use it as about the ones on whom it is used.
I'd say it's a pretty normal that people who approach something from an analytical or scientific point view try to use or create specialized language. You have to keep in mind who this was aimed at: it wasn't the main stream, but tactic nerds. When guys like Escher or Eckner write for mainstream media outlets they seem to have no problem adjusting their language to their readership.

As for Rene Maric: apparently Rose recognized a special analytical talent and brought him on, I don't see how that's "hipster" aside from being unusual.
 

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As for Rene Maric: apparently Rose recognized a special analytical talent and brought him on, I don't see how that's "hipster" aside from being unusual.
I'm sure Rose simply thought Maric was a special analytical/coaching talent, and a possible asset for his team. The fact that he kept him ever since means he saw that assessment confirmed. Can't see what's hipsterish about that. On that level you get employment for performance.
For crying out loud, loosen up, nerds!
 

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He must be. I'm just not sure why that's funny. The guy did a great analysis of one of Rose's games, Rose asked him to provide advice on some stuff, that went great, and so Rose hired him full-time. Maybe I'm missing something, but this makes all the sense in the world to me...?
Yes I don't know how he behaves in German Football, but a couple of years ago on that blog he was quite popular.
 

Champ

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Is Rose trying his best to make sure Dortmund get Champions league for next season :lol:
No wins in four now!! Slipping down the table.
 

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To quote Joseph M. Fischer: Excuse me, I am not convinced.
 

do.ob

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I don't think it was bad from a coaching perspective.
City pressed very high up the pitch and with great intensity, I think given their players Gladbach coped quite well with that and they were well organized defensively: judging by xG, aside from Ginter's brain fart, City just created the two chances they converted. For Gladbach it all fell apart when it came to getting behind City's last line, they made it into promising positions a couple of times during the first half and they had a good spell before City's second goal, but I feel like that moment Zakaria outmuscles the defender and then just completely bottles the final pass sums up well why they could barely create any chances or shots even.

Their upcoming games are pretty brutal: Leipzig, then the Rosico against Dortmund in the cup and Leverkusen to finish things up. Despite what Eberl said these games will probably determine whether Rose gets to see out the season. Losing 0-2 tonight probably means another reason to hold on to him is gone.
 

DoneDaDa

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I don't think it was bad from a coaching perspective.
City pressed very high up the pitch and with great intensity, I think given their players Gladbach coped quite well with that and they were well organized defensively: judging by xG, aside from Ginter's brain fart, City just created the two chances they converted. For Gladbach it all fell apart when it came to getting behind City's last line, they made it into promising positions a couple of times during the first half and they had a good spell before City's second goal, but I feel like that moment Zakaria outmuscles the defender and then just completely bottles the final pass sums up well why they could barely create any chances or shots even.

Their upcoming games are pretty brutal: Leipzig, then the Rosico against Dortmund in the cup and Leverkusen to finish things up. Despite what Eberl said these games will probably determine whether Rose gets to see out the season. Losing 0-2 tonight probably means another reason to hold on to him is gone.
City have also won 19 in a row across all competition, 26 games unbeaten run and have kept a clean sheet it 6 of their 7 CL games, people assume Gladbach stood a chance? :lol:

It would’ve been a surprised if they won or even got a draw.

I only saw the first half as it was a boring affair and didn’t think they did too bad, the lad losing a header BSilva should be the one getting questioned here.
 
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rotherham_red

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Another one of the founding members was doing youth work for Hajduk Split last I heard, two others are sports journalists, one of the more recent writers is working as a coach for FC St. Gallen, another one as a scout for HSV. Christian Streich once complained that he's working all week on his tactics and the next day he can read everything on a blog and as far as I know Tuchel invited some of the writers to some kind of seminar once. I don't think you can expect much more credentials from a free to access blog.
And given that zonalmarking.com was basically the peak of analysis when they started out I think they have made a lasting impact, at least in the sphere of German fans who are interested in tactics.
Zonalmarking another grade A contrarian twat.
 

SER19

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Imagine overseeing a rebuild of a club with a great history, getting through the groups, then just getting pushed aside by a fake football club. There's something so grim about it all and Rose can't be blamed. Should AC Milan finally return to the fray next year, city would just dispatch them too. Rebuilding a club now pretty much requires an owner like city's
 

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Imagine overseeing a rebuild of a club with a great history, getting through the groups, then just getting pushed aside by a fake football club. There's something so grim about it all and Rose can't be blamed. Should AC Milan finally return to the fray next year, city would just dispatch them too. Rebuilding a club now pretty much requires an owner like city's
 

dbs235

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Would be incredibly harsh to judge him on tonight's game. At the minute it seems like the only team that stands a chance against City is Bayern.
 

Adnan

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I don't think it was bad from a coaching perspective.
City pressed very high up the pitch and with great intensity, I think given their players Gladbach coped quite well with that and they were well organized defensively: judging by xG, aside from Ginter's brain fart, City just created the two chances they converted. For Gladbach it all fell apart when it came to getting behind City's last line, they made it into promising positions a couple of times during the first half and they had a good spell before City's second goal, but I feel like that moment Zakaria outmuscles the defender and then just completely bottles the final pass sums up well why they could barely create any chances or shots even.

Their upcoming games are pretty brutal: Leipzig, then the Rosico against Dortmund in the cup and Leverkusen to finish things up. Despite what Eberl said these games will probably determine whether Rose gets to see out the season. Losing 0-2 tonight probably means another reason to hold on to him is gone.
I think it might be best for Gladbach if he leaves with immediate effect. The players know he's gone in 12 weeks either way so motivating them for games might be a issue with so much uncertainty.
 

do.ob

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I think it might be best for Gladbach if he leaves with immediate effect. The players know he's gone in 12 weeks either way so motivating them for games might be a issue with so much uncertainty.
It's hard to tell how the dynamic of this issue is on the inside, but even if they sack him right now (which Eberl can't really do as long as they stay in the domestic cup, because he comitted on Rose with the public) the replacement would be just as much of a lame duck, since as far as I know every single candidate that's been named is currently under contract. They can't even take the same route as Dortmund, since Rose will be taking his assistants with him.
One could also ask whether it's just Rose's situation that's the problem or how much the uncertain future of several players also has an impact.
 

Adnan

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It's hard to tell how the dynamic of this issue is on the inside, but even if they sack him right now (which Eberl can't really do as long as they stay in the domestic cup, because he comitted on Rose with the public) the replacement would be just as much of a lame duck, since as far as I know every single candidate that's been named is currently under contract. They can't even take the same route as Dortmund, since Rose will be taking his assistants with him.
One could also ask whether it's just Rose's situation that's the problem or how much the uncertain future of several players also has an impact.
It's a very complex situation which is probably made worse with the added uncertainty surrounding the futures of several players as you alluded to.
 

Champ

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I think it might be best for Gladbach if he leaves with immediate effect. The players know he's gone in 12 weeks either way so motivating them for games might be a issue with so much uncertainty.
With all due respect, the rot set in way before the Dortmund news came out.

February has been an absolute car crash for Rose and Gladbach.
 

Adnan

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With all due respect, the rot set in way before the Dortmund news came out.

February has been an absolute car crash for Rose and Gladbach.
With the squad he had top 4 was the verty best he could do. Also Zakaria who is a key player missed a lot of games which made matters worse. I'm not really surprised with how things have gone tbf, there's only so much one can do with such a limited squad.
 

Champ

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With the squad he had top 4 was the verty best he could do. Also Zakaria who is a key player missed a lot of games which made matters worse. I'm not really surprised with how things have gone tbf, there's only so much one can do with such a limited squad.
Progress or consistency would have been Gladbachs and Roses aim this season, instead they find themselves 12 points worse off this season then at the same stage last season.
The drop off from last season is alarming really. With no wins in their last four league games, effectively fighting a losing battle in the Champions League, 9 points away from the top four, it really hasn't been a stellar season so far.
 

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Was Zakaria good against City? Although they lost - was there anything shining about him as a CDM?
 

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Progress or consistency would have been Gladbachs and Roses aim this season, instead they find themselves 12 points worse off this season then at the same stage last season.
The drop off from last season is alarming really. With no wins in their last four league games, effectively fighting a losing battle in the Champions League, 9 points away from the top four, it really hasn't been a stellar season so far.
Progress or consistency is very difficult to achieve when you're hamstrung by Covid and are unable to improve upon a limited squad with games coming thick and fast due to the scheduling. So the drop off in form was predicted by some in this very thread.

Gladbach progressing from a group consisting of Real Madrid, Inter and Shakhtar was a good achievement considering the talent and experience the aforementioned 3 teams had over Gladbach. Getting knocked out by a club with state backing was expected but Gladbach have more than punched above their weight in the UCL.

Also don't forget that it was Di Marzio who first broke the news about Rose agreeing to join BVB which was in December last year, December 13th to be exact.
 

Inigo Montoya

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Was Zakaria good against City? Although they lost - was there anything shining about him as a CDM?
I barely noticed him but it’s difficult with that side to assess him. City were their usual dominant self and kept possession well. It’s hard to know what to do when your a good side against them let alone a poor one like BMG. His problem is keeping injury free and that’s always going to be at the back of my mind.
I wouldn’t say he was any less or more effective than Bissouma but we’re comparing2 very different leagues