Marcus Rashford vs Tammy Abraham

[Stacks]

The concept of a cohesive midfield set playing together is lost on you. You're talking about players individually which has nothing to do with my point.

I guess it is lost on me since Lamps has been there 5 minutes and has brought this cohesion already despite playing different to Sarri. Also Chelsea have been so/so and are below us in the table. They were on less goals than us going into these games but one thing you can say is they are damn cohesive

 

[Trophy Room]

Some Lampard is better than Ole. What is this cohesive nonsense? 2 of their starters are on long term injuries and their best player is gone. How is this cohesive?

Oh dear.

 

[siw2007]

Abraham has really impressed me, definitely seems the more natural striker compared to Rashford. I wonder how many goals Abraham will get this season? Could he get 20?

Though Abraham is definitely the better striker than Rashford, I would bet that Rashford is a better inside forward than Abraham.

 

[cyberman]

Rashford is the focus of these threads for a reason. Abrahams will be found out by Christmas IMO.
Knee jerk nonsense tbh.

 

[Dr Fink]

To the thread title: both are second rate strikers, end of.

 

[kouroux]

I guess it is lost on me since Lamps has been there 5 minutes and has brought this cohesion already despite playing different to Sarri. Also Chelsea have been so/so and are below us in the table. They were on less goals than us going into these games but one thing you can say is they are damn cohesive

5min with the core of players from last season so it's not a work that starts from scratch. The midfield is the same, the backline is more or less the same, at United the situation is different, Rashford gets shunted on the left, then as a striker. The sum of little things like that explains why Abraham has been scoring more so far.

 

[Stacks]

5min with the core of players from last season so it's not a work that starts from scratch. The midfield is the same, the backline is more or less the same, at United the situation is different, Rashford gets shunted on the left, then as a striker. The sum of little things like that explains why Abraham has been scoring more so far.

We have hardly had wholesale changes. Why would we be any less cohesive? Rashford says he wants to be a complete forward not a basic 9. He simply switches with Martial but not shunted out wide left since Dan James plays there.

 

[passing-wind]

Abraham's will always be a better striker than Rashford because Marcus isn't a natural striker and never has been. Even under the youth scheme he didn't attribute any attention in his performances / numbers, his career has been forged at the back end of extreme circumstances (3 starting line up injuries). Rashford should be looked and developed into a similar position Sterling occupies, as a narrow inside left forward.

If you put Abraham's as a striker on his own he will thrive, if you put Rashford in the same position he's next to useless. If you put Rashford as a left forward he's decent and useful, I'd imagine Tammy would be pretty useless given his more natural positional instincts.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Both are of the same age.

Rashford seems to look older since he's had 5 seasons in the PL whereas Tammy has had one season with Swansea and now this season with Chelsea in the PL. He scored a lot of goals for Villa in the Championship last season and shown improvement. Rashford scored 10 goals in the PL last season but has had a fairly sluggish start. Tammy on the other hand has been banging in goals left and right since the hiccup on the opening day.

Whose the better striker?

Obviously Tammy is the better striker. In fact, every other striker, midfielder, defender, keeper, manager, scout, physio, parking attendant, merch sales reps, etc is better than what we have. I have never seen grass as green as all the grass outside of Old Trafford...ugh

 

[MrBest]

Tammy is the more intelligent of the two whereas i think Rashford has more natural talent. As a striker, i would prefer Tammy, he has that killer instinct and has always shown that. Rashford is more suited to cutting in from the left.

 

[Alemar]

Rashford's easily the better player.

How many did Abraham score this season? 7. Yes, seven. And Rashford?

 

[Asger]

Anyone remember the Rashford vs Iheanacho thread?

Still same level i guess.

 

[MikeKing]

Abraham's will always be a better striker than Rashford because Marcus isn't a natural striker and never has been. Even under the youth scheme he didn't attribute any attention in his performances / numbers, his career has been forged at the back end of extreme circumstances (3 starting line up injuries). Rashford should be looked and developed into a similar position Sterling occupies, as a narrow inside left forward.

If you put Abraham's as a striker on his own he will thrive, if you put Rashford in the same position he's next to useless. If you put Rashford as a left forward he's decent and useful, I'd imagine Tammy would be pretty useless given his more natural positional instincts.

I don't know what Rashford's best position is at the moment. He is not really creative enough to be a 10 or play as a creative inside winger, and he doesn't play with width like an old-school winger as he has more of the selfish traits like Ronaldo. The problem for me isn't necessarily his position, it is about if he will continue on the path he is on right now, because if so, he'll only end up as a predictable player with fantastic moments. If he continues to develop and can shake off the recent trend he is on he could be a lot better than Abraham, no matter position.

 

[Hawks2008]

These vs threads never end well for us, I can't believe you've done this.

 

[In Rainbows]

Abraham was always the more natural goal scorer. At u18 youth level he had like 40 goals as a 16-17 year old, which is similar to Greenwood. Basically 1 goal a match. This is also true of Solanke, Dembele, and Rossi. So that seems like a good measuring stick. In comparison, Rashford was in the teens as a 17 year old and initially struggled when converted to striker. As a 17-18 year old, Rashford kind of took off, but I don't think his numbers were as good as those other names I mentioned at u18 level.

That's why a lot of us were surprised by how well he took to senior football.

I would love to have a compilation of strikers goal scoring stats at u18 level and how old they were when they scored those. Solanke turned out a bust, while Dembele and Rossi took to senior football well. I think this could give us great perspective when we compare James Wilson, Will Keane, etc... and truly see how impressive they were relative to peers form previous years or future years.

Our forum could have more informed discussions.


Here are some stats
1. Abraham
a. 2014/15 - 41 goals in 44 apps as a 17 year old

2. Solanke
a. 2014/15 - 41 goals in 39 apps as a 17 year old

3. Dembele
a. 2013/14 - 34 goals in 29 apps as a 17 year old

4. Rossi
a. 2004/05 - 27 goals in 36 apps (4 in 3 for u18) as 17-18 year old
b. 2005/06 - 30 goals in 28 apps as an 18-19 year old
Total: 61 goals in 66 apps

5. Greenwood
a. 2017/18 - 16 goals in 18 apps (4assists) as a 16 year old
b. 2018/19 - 30 goals in 29 apps (12assists) as a 17 year old

6. James Wilson
a. 2013/14 - 22 goals in 28 apps (9 in 10 for u18, 5 in 6 for u19, 8 in 12 for u21) as a 17-18 year old. Could be more if you include Dallas Cup as I don't remember that year's.

7. Rashford
a. 2014/15 - 13 goals in 27 apps as a 17 year old

 

[Winmove]

Looking at the way Abraham strike the ball and attack the space , it's obvious to me that he will outscore Rashford in every single season from now on till they both retired. In the end , goals and assist is the only thing matter for an attacker.

 

[KennyBurner]

He needs just 3 more goals to match Rashfords league tally and we're in September. Hmmm.....

 

[Stacks]

These vs threads never end well for us, I can't believe you've done this.

Preach!

 

[beingshe7don]

If we were to go back and watch some of Jose's interview, he clearly states that Rashford is not a No. 9 who traditionally should be able to hold the ball up or should be a fox in the box striker. He's not a winger who should be able to dribble and take on opposition full backs (like a Ronaldo, Hazard, Salah or Martial) and put in decent crosses in the box. He's an attacking player. He won't score you goals consistently but has the knack of producing occasional moments of magic. We will struggle if we continue to depend on Rashford and Martial only. Martial still functions like a striker but he's the only one we've got at the moment.

Tammy fits the mould of a No. 9. Rashford may be technically better than Tammy but Tammy will score you goals consistently and that's what matters in the end. As a striker, you will always be judged by the number of goals you've scored and Tammy will be ahead of Rashford in the coming years. Tammy has better awareness when it comes to anticipation is concerned and is a better finisher regardless of the number of chances either team creates.

 

[beingshe7don]

Is that down to lack of service, though? Wanting to drop deep because of lack of involvment in the game. Same thing happened with Lukaku last season and I'd also class him as a 'pure striker'.

Lukaku still managed to score more 2 more goals despite featuring in one less game and Lukaku was having a bad season while Marcus was having his best season. Moving Lukaku on was the right decision but going into the season with only Martial/ Rashford and Greenwood was a very naive decision to make and an experienced manager would have seen that and insisted on bringing a proven goal scorer in. Ole can heap praises on the players all he wants but he should know that there's no balance to the team at all.

 

[Eoin McMahon]

Lukaku still managed to score more 2 more goals despite featuring in one less game and Lukaku was having a bad season while Marcus was having his best season. Moving Lukaku on was the right decision but going into the season with only Martial/ Rashford and Greenwood was a very naive decision to make and an experienced manager would have seen that and insisted on bringing a proven goal scorer in. Ole can heap praises on the players all he wants but he should know that there's no balance to the team at all.

I always felt that if Lukaku was content with a squad role he would be valuble asset to have. Pl proven, knows where the goal is and would provide a different threat to other forwards.
However he wasn't happy with a squad role so he had to move really. I think to decision not to sign a replacement benefits us long term but obviously leaves us short right now.
We could have signed someone like Manzukic or Llorente but I think management is being specific and careful in the shaping of this new team which while risky will prevent another build up of deadwood players who will stick around on big contracts for years.

 

[Eoin McMahon]

In regards to Rashford he seems to hit a wall in that he has rounded out a number of areas of his game and is a better player than most his age but I see that natural goalscoring ability he displayed when first burst onto the scene has been neglected.
He reminds of Ronaldo in his physical transformation and also his freekick taking and technique improvement but that natural finishing ability has become a more mechanical process.
He still has great movement and is getting into the goalscoring positions he always did but his finishing is whats holding Rashford back from becoming a top top striker.
I have confidence that he will figure it out and when he does we will have the player we all shouted and told everyone he would become. I think Fickle is the word.

I can't wait to have Martial back the team.

Martial is a player that has everything to become a world class winger or even striker. He is very like Henry i that he isn't suited to the wing or st but right in between is where he can use all of his strengths to its best.
He has been very unlucky with injuries recently and when fit has shown huge improvements in his work rate and consistency something I feared he would never display.
Like Rashford he has that compose natural finishing ability that he couldn't show too much on the wing but this season at ST reminded us of just that. Both Rashford and Martial are young, talented and the potential partnership for years to come could be great.

This season is a huge step in both careers, they have the trust of the manager and responsibility for the team to lead the line and to score the goals we know they can.

 

[Seaman]

I always felt that if Lukaku was content with a squad role he would be valuble asset to have. Pl proven, knows where the goal is and would provide a different threat to other forwards.
However he wasn't happy with a squad role so he had to move really. I think to decision not to sign a replacement benefits us long term but obviously leaves us short right now.
We could have signed someone like Manzukic or Llorente but I think management is being specific and careful in the shaping of this new team which while risky will prevent another build up of deadwood players who will stick around on big contracts for years.

To have Lukaku as a squad player and backup for Rashford when he is clearly the better striker would be madness. Put it this way if every PP manager was told next season you will have new nr 1 striker and you can only pick between Lukaku and Rashford. Who do you think would get most votes?

 

[Eoin McMahon]

To have Lukaku as a squad player and backup for Rashford when he is clearly the better striker would be madness. Put it this way if every PP manager was told next season you will have new nr 1 striker and you can only pick between Lukaku and Rashford. Who do you think would get most votes?

Lukaku is a overall better striker than Rashford yes but Rashford was and still is first choice because he suits our counter attacking style. I think the only upvote that matters in this is Oles and im pretty sure Rashford got the nod. If you didnt know Lukaku is now playing for Inter Milan just in case you don't have any way of watching any new source

 

[Mcking]

Their midfield is pony. Kante is not creative. Their one creative player is gone. What foundation is this? Who in this midfield is even desirable. Pogba is more creative than their entire front line

Jorginho and Kovacic are good.

 

[kouroux]

We have hardly had wholesale changes. Why would we be any less cohesive? Rashford says he wants to be a complete forward not a basic 9. He simply switches with Martial but not shunted out wide left since Dan James plays there.

We have had it more than Chelsea in midfield.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Too early to tell. But Abraham does look great in around the penalty box. Rashford is a better all round footballer, but I suppose his challenge is that he's not a 9 but a modern forward, and that as a modern forward you need link up well and contribute to the buildup. Whereas he's a bit of a Hollywood player ATM always looking to do something flashy. Another point to take into account is that Chelsea appear to be better coached than us.

Bit idI have to see more of Abraham really.

 

[tenpoless]

Some Lampard is better than Ole. What is this cohesive nonsense? 2 of their starters are on long term injuries and their best player is gone. How is this cohesive?

Of course, managers vs manager.

 

[tenpoless]

Temi eibraham is Jose's favourite.

 

[Winmove]

Lukaku is a overall better striker than Rashford yes but Rashford was and still is first choice because he suits our counter attacking style.

Lukaku is as rapid as Rashford , stronger and much more difficult to stop. He has played counter attacking football with both Belgium and now Inter because Conte also love to counter attack. The reason he got sold is because some people here value good first touch more than goals, and also because he doesn't like to be our media scapegoat.

 

[Eoin McMahon]

Abraham has a long way to get yet before he can be really compared to Marcus.It was only last month we were all saying Abraham wouldnt be able for the PL next thing we know he PL top scorer which along with his Swansea experience show he has spirit and fight to come back and timed it perfectly with Lampards appointment which has been huge the young English players there for them to finally get a chance.

Marcus Rashford had probably the most rapid and eventful rise from relatively unknown youngster starting off with two debut goals in Europe, goals on his PL debut and finally a debut goal on his England debut just for good measure.The guy was the limit for Rashford and of course a rise to prominence like his will always echo the greats like Pele, Owen,Rooney. He finished his debut season with 8 goals in 18 with his pace and finishing ability drawing comparison to Patrick Kluivert.
3 years on Rashford is still at Utd and has established himself as our starting st. Rashford has worked incredibly hard on his physique and his setpieces but the hype around him has settled and you would forget that it was only 3 years ago he made his debut. He hasnt really popped off just yet but you just feel i could be any game now we see him announce himself tot the world again.

 

[Lentwood]

Go back through my post history....I’ve said over and over and over again, the problem with Rashford begins and ends with him just not being that good

I’ve seen practically every minute of senior football the lad has played and there is NOTHING that leads me to believe he will be anymore than a mid-table hit & miss-type footballer.

If the lad where at Bournemouth or Burnley, would we be interested in signing him, based on his performances? I think not.

 

[settembrini]

If Rashford was consistently played as a striker then he would be a good striker. He showed that when he first came into the team under Van Gaal and then when Solskjaer took over and moved him back upfront.

What he can't do is perform well as a striker when that's his secondary position. We saw that under Mourinho and we are seeing it again right now with Martial out.

I don't say that to criticise Rashford. For most people getting good at a position requires playing it constantly, game after game. The players who can perform at a high level in one position one week and then in a different one the next are few and far between.

 

[Eoin McMahon]

Go back through my post history....I’ve said over and over and over again, the problem with Rashford begins and ends with him just not being that good

I’ve seen practically every minute of senior football the lad has played and there is NOTHING that leads me to believe he will be anymore than a mid-table hit & miss-type footballer.

If the lad where at Bournemouth or Burnley, would we be interested in signing him, based on his performances? I think not.

Somedays I would agree with you because he is the most frustrating player weve had since Nani in terms of he does everything right but his final pass or finish is letting him down. We have to remember that Rashford is still only 21 and still has a few more years till we can judge him properly but he's not really progress much the last couple years and hopefully that int the case in 3-4 years. But I have faith him and I think if gets his finising back firing then he'll be hard to stop.

 

[Eoin McMahon]

If Rashford was consistently played as a striker then he would be a good striker. He showed that when he first came into the team under Van Gaal and then when Solskjaer took over and moved him back upfront.

What he can't do is perform well as a striker when that's his secondary position. We saw that under Mourinho and we are seeing it again right now with Martial out.

I don't say that to criticise Rashford. For most people getting good at a position requires playing it constantly, game after game. The players who can perform at a high level in one position one week and then in a different one the next are few and far between.

See the problem with playing up front every game was that we were under pressure to win games and Lukaku had to start almost every game due to inconsistency from Rashford but thats to be expected from a young player. So chance to play Marcus as a ST were few and far between but playing on the is still better than the bench,

 

[Lentwood]

Somedays I would agree with you because he is the most frustrating player weve had since Nani in terms of he does everything right but his final pass or finish is letting him down. We have to remember that Rashford is still only 21 and still has a few more years till we can judge him properly but he's not really progress much the last couple years and hopefully that int the case in 3-4 years. But I have faith him and I think if gets his finising back firing then he'll be hard to stop.

The difference is though, Nani was HIGHLY technically skilled - it should never be underestimated how good he could be when it all clicked.

I haven’t seen that level of technical ability from Rashford. I see a sea of very average passes, touches, dribbles, crosses etc....followed by one or two moments of magic every couple of months. It doesn’t seem to me like a problem solely with consistency and decision-making

 

[noodlehair]

How many did Abraham score this season? 7. Yes, seven. And Rashford?

This is after 5 games, by this logic Puki is the best player in the league. I may also be wrong or in some alternate universe to you, but I think Martial was our striker for three of those games, not Rashford.

Rashford scored yesterday and won us the game. Abraham played against Leicester and was completely useless. Rashford as a striker has winning goals to his name against the likes of City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Leicester (twice), and Spurs. Abraham hasn't because he was not good enough to get a game in the PL until this season.

They are also both 21 years old. At 21 most players aren't exactly prolific.

You are literally just making up a complete lie to criticise one of our own players. What is actually wrong with people like you?

 

[Greck]

If he still looks this good when defences adjust in his 2nd and 3rd seasons we'll know he's the real deal. For now he's just another new young player taking advantage of defenders' non-familiarity with what he's going to do next. How many times do we have to see this happen with young players before we stop blowing our load prematurely. The initial nonsustainable scoring rate should be enough to put us on notice

 

[Eoin McMahon]

The difference is though, Nani was HIGHLY technically skilled - it should never be underestimated how good he could be when it all clicked.

I haven’t seen that level of technical ability from Rashford. I see a sea of very average passes, touches, dribbles, crosses etc....followed by one or two moments of magic every couple of months. It doesn’t seem to me like a problem solely with consistency and decision-making

Yes two very different players but both definitely frustrating to say the least. Nani was always taking his man on getting into a great position the just wasting it with a crazy shot or poor cross. And this would happen maybe 3--6 times a game but you persevered because you knew that one one of these chances will finally get a good cross or shot. I always wondered how good he would have been if converted more of his chance. I suppose that happened for 1 season he was world class 2011/12 and all it took was consistency.

Rashford is more of striker pace,power and great movement but like Nani his finishing lets him down and he get 3-4 chances a game. But if he get that finishing back he will top class striker for years to come

 

[noodlehair]

If he still looks this good when defences adjust in his 2nd and 3rd seasons we'll know he's the real deal. For now he's just another new young player taking advantage of defenders' non-familiarity with what he's going to do next. How many times do we have to see this happen with young players before we stop blowing our load prematurely. The initial nonsustainable scoring rate should be enough to put us on notice

It's not even about that though. It's just a chance for some of the cretins on here to slag off one of our own players.

Abraham's scoring rate if he kept it up would actually make him better than Lionel Messi or Ronaldo at their peak. Problem is when you look at it that way it sounds ridiculous and you can no longer use it to claim Rashford is rubbish.

When Rashford hits a run of form (I mean, as if 3 goals in 5 games is bad now) people will go back to slagging off Lingard for being a "manchild" or Mata, or whoever they can pick on by just making something silly up.