[ZDwyr]

I think the theme is he's our lucky charm. He's had numerous decisions go his way, had they gone against him he'd still be getting criticism. Namely a push on Lescott for the goal, should have given away a penalty against City, the push on Gibbs which caused our goal against Arsenal. He's gotten away lightly for the incidents with Aguero and Wilshire too.

Wish he had a bit more sense. He seems high risk high reward at the minute.

What?

 

[Loublaze]

Herrera does get around, but hassling is different to having a physical presence.

Oscar at Chelsea also hassles players well, but he is a bit lightweight.

At 6ft4, Fellaini is a tall, strong, imposing player, who possibly intimidates his opponents (except Wilshere) by just looking at him, nevermind what he actually does to players in a physical battle.

If we're to become the potent attacking force we were before Hererra got injured, we need to restore his place in the starting lineup. Fellaini is a good option when closing out a game.

 

[saivet]

What?

He enticed Wilshere to headbutt him of course.

 

[NM]

He enticed Wilshere to headbutt him of course.

 

[saivet]

Enjoyed this.

Pretty good comp. I think he's done well these past few games but the video is more impressive than I would have expected.

 

[mazhar13]

You mean like when we had Mata against West Brom who did nothing more or less all game?

As for disjointed attacks, again, that's just a myth that's always going to be stuck into the heads of the people who already had a preconceived view on Fellaini. If it's disjointed, it's because we can't make it stick up top or players are trying to do too much in the final third.

Fellaini's in the team to keep the ball ticking over when we're in possession (which I feel he's been doing well) and break up play when we're not. We have Rooney, Di Maria, Van Persie and Januzaj/Mata to give us the creativity.

Mata is not a playmaker. His game is suited to the final third and not at a deeper role. He's better at creating chances and scoring goals rather than dictating play from the midfield.

The disjointed nature of our attacks isn't directly due to Fellaini, and I never fully put him at fault him for that. His main role in midfield is to keep us ticking in possession, be aggressive to the opponents, quickly win the ball from the opponents, offer an aerial threat in the final third, and provide support to our wingers. However, he doesn't have the ability to dictate play from midfield like Herrera can, and Rooney, Mata, Januzaj, di Maria, and Mata can't dictate play from midfield like Herrera can.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

If we're to become the potent attacking force we were before Hererra got injured, we need to restore his place in the starting lineup. Fellaini is a good option when closing out a game.

Think it's unfair to imply our attacking force has all of a sudden become dull since the inclusion of Fellaini. There's a couple factors as to why we're not the same attacking force, in my opinion:

Change of formation

Herrera only started putting in noticeable performances when we changed to a diamond, which pretty much got the best out of most of our players, especially Di Maria, who was arguably our best player, whilst playing that system. Before that, when we played a 3412, I wouldn't exactly say we looked like a potent attacking force with Herrera in the team, albeit only being one game.

Since we've changed to a 4141, Di Maria, as I said before, who was arguably our best player in the diamond, has been shunted out wide, which has unfortunately resulted in not so effective performances of late. Also, Januzaj's not showing much consistency, which is understandable for a young lad, RVP's looked pretty stale and isolated, and Rooney's playing too deep, if you ask me. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I personally don't think you can blame the inconsistencies of the aforementioned players on Fellaini. I mean, even if we were to put Herrera in, would it stop Di Maria from trying to do too much, or would it mean RVP would run into channels more? These are things that Fellaini cannot control, and like I said, I very much doubt it would have been a lot different had Herrera been in the team. Just look at the West Brom game. We were shocking in the first half and couldn't create nothing with both, Mata and Herrera on the pitch. Yes, people blame his performance on his injury, but i'm led to believe he was fully fit to play, otherwise he wouldn't have started. I mean, you know what Van Gaal's like with making sure his players are fit enough to make the bench, nevermind start a game.


Teams

Like someone mentioned before, since Fellaini has come in, we've played much harder teams on paper, in comparison to when Herrera was in.

Fellaini

West Brom - Draw
Chelsea - Draw
Man City - Loss
Crystal Palace - Win
Arsenal - Win

Herrera

Swansea - Loss
QPR - Win
Leicester - Loss
West Ham - Win


I'm not trying to say Herrera won't make a difference when he comes back, (who knows? Fellaini's putting in some good performances, in my opinion) but at the moment, I feel our problems are much deeper than the inclusion of Fellaini. We need to get the best out of our individuals like we did in a diamond.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Mata is not a playmaker. His game is suited to the final third and not at a deeper role. He's better at creating chances and scoring goals rather than dictating play from the midfield.

The disjointed nature of our attacks isn't directly due to Fellaini, and I never fully put him at fault him for that. His main role in midfield is to keep us ticking in possession, be aggressive to the opponents, quickly win the ball from the opponents, offer an aerial threat in the final third, and provide support to our wingers. However, he doesn't have the ability to dictate play from midfield like Herrera can, and Rooney, Mata, Januzaj, di Maria, and Mata can't dictate play from midfield like Herrera can.

The so called 'disjointed' attacks can't be directed at Fellaini at all, in my opinion. You've just said yourself. His main role is to keep possession, be aggressive to the opponents, quickly win the ball from the opponents, offer an aerial threat in the final third, and provide support to our wingers, which is then up to them to create that bit of magic in the final third, which didn't happen.

And to be fair, you're starting to contradict yourself now, because you said unless Fellaini has a playmaker next to him, our attacks and possession play won't be incisive and troublesome for the opposition, yet, in your quote above that I've put in bold, you state that Rooney, and to a lesser extent, Mata can dicate play - two players Fellaini's played alongside, therefore, surely there must be another reason as to why our attacks are not incisive?

 

[mazhar13]

And to be fair, you're starting to contradict yourself now, because you said unless Fellaini has a playmaker next to him, our attacks and possession play won't be incisive and troublesome for the opposition, yet, in your quote above that I've put in bold, you state that Rooney, and to a lesser extent, Mata can dicate play - two players Fellaini's played alongside, therefore, surely there must be another reason as to why our attacks are not incisive?

Creating chances and scoring goals in the final third is completely different from dictating play from the midfield. Mata and Rooney are unable to control our pace, tempo, and passing rhythm. They haven't been able to put their teammates into dangerous areas with their passes, and their movement has resembled that of a forward/final-third player than that of a midfielder. They've frequently either played the safe option when they could have played someone into a dangerous area, or, in Rooney's case, played the ball out wide before running into the box. They are unable to control the game from midfield and are better off being in the final third where they either provide assists or score goals. Herrera has been great in dictating play from midfield, and we've missed this in our team ever since Scholes retired. Mata and Rooney can't do what Herrera does in midfield, and what they do in the final third does not constitute them dictating play and controlling the game.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Fair balls to the bloke. I'm still amazed he's proven himself to be a capable Manchester United midfield player. Really didn't think he had it in him after last season, last time I'll write someone off so soon.

 

[Insanity]

Fair balls to the bloke. I'm still amazed he's proven himself to be a capable Manchester United midfield player. Really didn't think he had it in him after last season, last time I'll write someone off so soon.

He has looked capable, I am not sure about a capable long term solution. He excelled in a couple of games where we played as underdogs and adopted tactics like Everton would against top teams. That is his comfort zone.

A regular starter for Manchester United in the midfield, imo, should bring a lot more to the table than Fellaini has. He is a plan B.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Creating chances and scoring goals in the final third is completely different from dictating play from the midfield. Mata and Rooney are unable to control our pace, tempo, and passing rhythm. They haven't been able to put their teammates into dangerous areas with their passes, and their movement has resembled that of a forward/final-third player than that of a midfielder. They've frequently either played the safe option when they could have played someone into a dangerous area, or, in Rooney's case, played the ball out wide before running into the box. They are unable to control the game from midfield and are better off being in the final third where they either provide assists or score goals. Herrera has been great in dictating play from midfield, and we've missed this in our team ever since Scholes retired. Mata and Rooney can't do what Herrera does in midfield, and what they do in the final third does not constitute them dictating play and controlling the game.

You're missing my point. You said that Fellaini doesn't have 'the ability to dictate play from midfield like Herrera can, and Rooney, Mata, Januzaj, di Maria' can, and will need one of those players next to him, otherwise 'our attacks and possession play won't be incisive and troublesome for the opposition', so I take it you feel the aforementioned players can dictate play from the midfield to a certain extent? Obviously some better than others. If that's the case, why have our attacks been so poor then? Nothing to do with the midfield, in my opinion. Actually, I think in the past few weeks we've kept the ball very well, outplaying City in the first 30 minutes, and also giving Chelsea a lot of trouble too.

Also, in a 4141 formation, which we've been playing the last few weeks, it's the the role of the holding midfielder to 'dictate the play'. In our case that's been Blind or Carrick, who both do a great job at it, in my opinion. That's the player who builds from the back and starts off the attacks However, due to being a single pivot, onus is on that player to always be available for the pass and make forward passes. The centre midfielders, on the other hand, are asked to start pretty high up the pitch and stretch play - almost finding pockets of space like they did against Chelsea, whilst the will both take it in turns to drop for the ball, either to give an option or to leave space in behind.

As for Herrera dictating play, yes, I can imagine he can do that for us, and I doubt he'll be asked to play the role any different to Mata, Rooney, Fellaini, etc, but it's not something he's used to doing. At Bilbao, despite playing a 3 man midfield, Herrera always used to be the most advanced midfield out of the three. It was very much Iturraspe who used to dictate play for Bilbao.

 

[NM]

He has looked capable, I am not sure about a capable long term solution. He excelled in a couple of games where we played as underdogs and adopted tactics like Everton would against top teams. That is his comfort zone.

This shit again? People see what they want to see.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

This shit again? People see what they want to see.

Getting pretty boring now, isn't it? I just can't be bothered to explain anymore, to be honest.

 

[mazhar13]

You're missing my point. You said that Fellaini doesn't have 'the ability to dictate play from midfield like Herrera can, and Rooney, Mata, Januzaj, di Maria' can, and will need one of those players next to him, otherwise 'our attacks and possession play won't be incisive and troublesome for the opposition', so I take it you feel the aforementioned players can dictate play from the midfield to a certain extent? Obviously some better than others. If that's the case, why have our attacks been so poor then? Nothing to do with the midfield, in my opinion. Actually, I think in the past few weeks we've kept the ball very well, outplaying City in the first 30 minutes, and also giving Chelsea a lot of trouble too.

You misread my statement. I said that Fellaini cannot be given the responsibility to dictate play, of course, and partnering him with Mata or Rooney in midfield won't work as they won't be able to dictate play from midfield as well since they're more suited to playing in the final third, creating chances and scoring goals. Same goes for Januzaj and di Maria, and both have shown that they aren't able to control the game from central midfield. In short, we need Herrera in our team regardless of who plays as no one else is like him.

Also, Fellaini's only good midfield performance, for me, was against Chelsea during the first half. Against Man. City, he couldn't do much as he was forced to stay back, and in the rest of the matches, he was average (Crystal Palace) or below average (West Brom/Arsenal) though not as poor as he was at the first few matches of this season.

Also, in a 4141 formation, which we've been playing the last few weeks, it's the the role of the holding midfielder to 'dictate the play'. In our case that's been Blind or Carrick, who both do a great job at it, in my opinion. That's the player who builds from the back and starts off the attacks However, due to being a single pivot, onus is on that player to always be available for the pass and make forward passes. The centre midfielders, on the other hand, are asked to start pretty high up the pitch and stretch play - almost finding pockets of space like they did against Chelsea, whilst the will both take it in turns to drop for the ball, either to give an option or to leave space in behind.

Yes, the deep-lying player builds from the back and starts off attacks, but it still needs someone to control the pace, tempo, and rhythm of the team. The deep-lying midfielder will be the outlet from the defence and start off attacks, but it still needs a midfielder who can play players into dangerous areas, control our build-up speed, tempo, and passing rhythm, and be the link between the attacking and defensive players. Bayern used the 4-1-4-1 last season, and whilst they did have Lahm starting off attacks, they still needed Kroos or Thiago to build up the attack and control the team's game.

We've missed that sort of a player from our midfield. Rooney and Mata tried to play this sort of a game, but both have shown themselves to be incapable for this. Rooney doesn't have the vision, movement, and mindset to be our playmaker, and the same goes for Mata, who has the guile to split defences and score goals but can't control our pace, tempo, and passing rhythm in midfield. We did well in the first half against Chelsea because Fellaini was very good in supporting Januzaj and allowing him to cut into the middle and play through passes. Against Man. City, we may have been comfortable in possession against Man. City, but on the attack, we created almost no chances and weren't able to get a flow to our game. Of course, the red card ruined it all for us before we could really settle. We saw what happened against Crystal Palace as well. We played too slowly, rigidly, and safely, allowing Crystal Palace to set themselves up, whilst the quality of our attacking players allowed us to be incisive on the attack and create chances. Same thing happened against Arsenal except we kept less possession.

As for Herrera dictating play, yes, I can imagine he can do that for us, and I doubt he'll be asked to play the role any different to Mata, Rooney, Fellaini, etc, but it's not something he's used to doing. At Bilbao, despite playing a 3 man midfield, Herrera always used to be the most advanced midfield out of the three. It was very much Iturraspe who used to dictate play for Bilbao.

I see you and I interpret "dictate play" differently. It seems as if you see it as a deep-lying player distributing the ball around and playing balls to attacking players, whilst I see it as something that Ozil, Wilshere, Silva, Nasri, Oscar, Fabregas, Iniesta, Xavi, etc., do: control the team's flow, rhythm, tempo, and build-up speed whilst also playing teammates into dangerous areas. It would be good if you could clarify how you define "dictating play".

 

[Ace of Spades]

Herrera does get around, but hassling is different to having a physical presence.

Oscar at Chelsea also hassles players well, but he is a bit lightweight.

Herrera does more than just hassling, he also puts in tackles and wins the ball back, just as much as Fellaini does.

Also, having a big strong player is not an absolute necessity to any team, a team can cope just fine without one, just depends on the set up and tactics involved. We have done it ourselves before, and did fine without one.

That being said, Fellaini is doing fine now, so I don't understand why people are complaining.

At 6ft4, Fellaini is a tall, strong, imposing player, who possibly intimidates his opponents (except Wilshere) by just looking at him, nevermind what he actually does to players in a physical battle.

Now you are just being ridiculous. He looked the same last season, but that did not seem to help him at the time.

Fellaini is doing well because he has improved from last season's slump. He actually looks like he has instructions from the manager, rather than just being chucked on the field and looking clueless like last season.

Think it's unfair to imply our attacking force has all of a sudden become dull since the inclusion of Fellaini. There's a couple factors as to why we're not the same attacking force, in my opinion

It is not because of Fellaini that we are not attacking as much as before, just as it is not because of Fellaini that we are defensively stronger than before, nor was it because of Herrera that we were exposed defensively before, like a few were implying. One player cannot control an entire team's performance.

Herrera only started putting in noticeable performances when we changed to a diamond, which pretty much got the best out of most of our players, especially Di Maria, who was arguably our best player, whilst playing that system.

Herrera has only played five games in total, and only one in which we played with 3 at the back, and that is against Swansea. Fellaini also played in that game as a sub, and was also just as average as Herrera.

Before that, when we played a 3412, I wouldn't exactly say we looked like a potent attacking force with Herrera in the team, albeit only being one game.

We have not looked a potent attacking force with 3 at the back even once since the league began, no matter which players are involved.

Yes, people blame his performance on his injury, but i'm led to believe he was fully fit to play, otherwise he wouldn't have started. I mean, you know what Van Gaal's like with making sure his players are fit enough to make the bench, nevermind start a game.

It doesn't matter what you believe, the fact is Herrera started the game wearing a corset, which means that he was not fully fit, and there were concerns about the injury. It is not the first time that a player has played even though he was not 100% fit.

Like someone mentioned before, since Fellaini has come in, we've played much harder teams on paper, in comparison to when Herrera was in.

That does not mean much at all. Football does not work on exact logic like that.

We played well against Chelsea and City, but were relatively poor against WBA, Palace and Arsenal. Our better performances have come against stronger teams, than weaker ones lately.

Fellaini

West Brom - Draw
Chelsea - Draw
Man City - Loss
Crystal Palace - Win
Arsenal - Win

Herrera

Swansea - Loss
QPR - Win
Leicester - Loss
West Ham - Win

Why are you using team results to determine a player's performance ?? If that is the case, then Fellaini played in that loss against Swansea and Herrera played in that draw against WBA, it goes both ways. You can't use selective reasoning like that.

I'm not trying to say Herrera won't make a difference when he comes back, (who knows? Fellaini's putting in some good performances, in my opinion) but at the moment, I feel our problems are much deeper than the inclusion of Fellaini. We need to get the best out of our individuals like we did in a diamond.

Fellaini is not the problem, he is playing well and should be in the team based on merit.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Fellaini is the type of player I want on there in a game we aren't going to dominate from the outset. Under the right manager, he's the "do a job" sort of player.

Not many will completely nullify Fabregas this season - but that is exactly why you play Fellaini.

Now against Hull, I want goals, chances and risks. Herrera is more likely to be that little nuisance all over the place trying to make things happen.

 

[Shamwow]

So last season when he had a couple of good games against poor teams it was "yeah but it was poor opposition, he's not the kind of player we want in games against good teams". Now he's had a couple of good games against good teams its "yeah but he's the kind of player we want when we have our backs to the wall against the good team but he's not going to win us points in games we're dominating". Make up your minds people!

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Fellaini is not the problem, he is playing well and should be in the team based on merit.

We've come to the same conclusion then.

 

[ZDwyr]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Walrus]

Good to see LVG keeping him. To drop Fellaini now when he finding his feet would be a big blow to his confidence.

Plus now we can see the much anticipated Carrick/Herrera/Fellaini system in midfield, which so far looks to be doing fine.

 

[Lynk]

Been great so far. Well done Marouane

 

[pierrethesnack]

It's so heartwarming to finally see Fellaini do well. Such a presence when he's in form!

 

[Sammyjunn]

He has been playing so well, good to have him in this form.

 

[Moonred]

Bossing it.

 

[Shark]

Our best midfielder right now.

 

[Speak]

Very very good today. Long may it continue.

 

[Walrus]

I have been calling for a midfield trio of Carrick/Blind, Herrera and Fellaini for a while. We are making Hull look a lot worse than they are, in my opinion. There are plenty of times we have made teams like Hull look like Barcelona as a result of our own incompetence, so credit where credit is due.

Fellaini is in good form and is playing in a system which suits not only him but the other players.

 

[Kazi]

Damn, he's been very good

 

[Red Shorts]

Hasn't put a foot wrong this game. Really pleased.

 

[Melvyn]

Who is this guy and what has he done with Fellaini?

 

[shamans]

That's why I was crying out last season that Fellaini is a really good player and everyone on here was telling me Cleverly is better. But again, watch the haters say it's just hull etc etc

 

[Shamwow]

Great performance so far, I'd say this has been his best since West Brom.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Understanding between him and Valencia is telepathic today.

 

[Sam]

He's playing really really well.

I'd say I'm more impressed today then the Chelsea or West Brom game. Well played lad.

 

[Walrus]

The entire team is playing well and Fellaini is undoubtedly a part of that. Pleased to see him continuing his good form, every week he will convert more and more of the doubters.

 

[LLMU]

Anytime he uses his chest to cushion the ball means he is on form. Good game from him so far

 

[2cents]

This is probably the first game that I've seen him as more than just a nuisance. Playing really well, the crowd seem to be responding to him.

 

[Lynk]

On reflection this makes the pre-season booing even more disgraceful. You don't gain anything by making your players feel like shit.

 

[JPRouve]

He is doing very well , still improving in all the aspects of his game.