Not sure why I'm getting involved in this really as you are so clearly agenda driven in the way you are presenting your 'facts'. A managerial career begins when somebody first becomes a manager - right? So a year 2000 start date is pretty much unequivocal - regardless of what happened during that first season.
I do agree with this.
But you also need to consider that both Rooney and Ronaldo are the types who would run through brick walls for themselves, their team and manager. Martial is none of these things. Martial threw his toys of his pram when a player was signed who could complete for his position. Rooney and Ronaldo would've worked even harder and fought for that starting berth.
IMO Martial will do well in a team where there is no competition (ie. a team in around 6-10th place). Any team placing higher than that will most likely have competition for places and Martial does not seem to like that.
I started from 2000 at your insistence. Don't see the problem?
Also, I don't see how else these facts can be presented. Perhaps you can enlighten me on where I'm going wrong?
@Grande has already done that with aplomb.
I've been a huge fan of Martial since he's came but can't defend him anymore, his attitude and body language has been horrific since the new year. He shouldn't have been dropped for Sanchez but his response has been awful. Big sulky Anelka 2.0 head on him, show a bit of fight. He's clearly got the talent but where is the fight. He looked disinterested in preseason taking away him leaving for the birth of his child, the Brighton game was it for me. Didn't look arsed when he was playing and worse when he came off. He's got another opportunity now Rashford is suspended, be surprised if he takes it. I would be what some of you called Martial Fc for a long time, not anymore. That goes for Pogba and anyone else. I grew up watching passionate, professional and tough United teams. There aren't many of them left in this squad. I want to see a team of men who don't give up and represent Manchester United properly, this isn't Martial. He should have been sold in the Summer. This new contract undermines our manager and gives out the wrong message to others. For those saying it protects us for resale is strange too. A player is signing a contract to get better money with no intention of staying, feels all wrong.
Didn't mind competing with Rashford at the start of last season, he was even praised for his determination, now it's suddenly the opposite again and a stick frequently used to bash him with. Caf-Facts.
Fair enough, opinions and onions. I’m happy to continue this debate in one of the Mourinho threads, but I’ll refrain from it here as this is the Martial contract thread.
On topic: I’m all for prolonging his contract if he wants to, if he wants to at this point I’m satisfied he’ll be interested in taking the hard way to the top. So far my impression of him is that his determination is fragile and that he has weaknesses in his games he needs to improve in order to accomodate him. I view him as a very good one’trick pony at this point, so he needs to a)fit the manager or b) have the determination to develop. I have my doubts, but if Mou and Martial both agree its worth trying, I’m all for it. If not, I don’t think it will work out for neither Martial or United.
So the contract is on the table and he is taking so long to sign it? We are really being hung up by players these days eh? First Fellaini and now potentially this sulky boy Martial. I know he could be considering his future but if the player is not interested, let's not force the poor sod
I don't really see the point in comparing the two halves of his career. The last six years are enough - Since his league title in Real there has been a noticable drop.
Rooney yes. I'm not sure how young Ronaldo, before his 2006 breakthrough, would have reacted to such a situation.
He really hasn't.
Agreed.
Going up against one of the greatest Barcelona teams of all time and Man City who literally outspends everyone might have something to do with the drop-off.
You have to remember that players like Van Nistelrooy were sacrificed for the potential of young Rooney and Ronaldo.
Martial was pretty much our best player till Sanchez was signed and then thrown to the way side. I think a lot of this is overblown to be quite honest, but people need to stop being ridiculous. Mid table player
Point worth making, that.
You could say they were given the chance to take over the mantle of established, high quality players. And some years earlier it was even more evident, when Fergie gave the opportunity to Beckham, Scholes et al. (and before that, Giggs - and before that Sharpe).
He phased out players that were still in their prime in order to prepare the ground for younger players he believed in - he sure as hell didn't do the opposite (Sanchez, anyone?). It was only towards the very end of his career that he began making key calls that positively went against this tendency (bringing Scholes back, buying RVP).
Supposing he had deemed Martial good enough, as such, prime Fergie wouldn't have gone anywhere near the Sanchez move.
Yeah, the people comparing Martial's situation with Ronaldo or Rooney's situation may aswell be comparing apples with oranges.
Not sure about that - Sanchez seems like a classic Fergie player to me. I think if the chance to take him away from Arsenal and from under the noses of his biggest rivals he would have been on it like a shot. He'd have probably found a role for Martial somewhere though (assuming he hadn't already fecked him off for his appalling attitude...)
Well, that becomes very hypothetical. But sure, if he deemed the effect of said rival strengthening grave enough - possible, I suppose.
Hypotheticals aside, the relevant point here is that the likes of Beckham and Ronaldo were prioritized. It wasn't a simple matter of «if he's good enough, he'll make it». Fergie prepared the ground for those players, which included shipping out more established players to make room for the «kids». Having the manager believe in you to that extent is something that can have a profound impact on a player, as Ronaldo himself would undoubtedly agree with.
Yes completely agree. Had we bought in an experienced winger to compete with Ronaldo he might never have flourished.
The whole thing is hypothetical isn't it?
Also, arguable whether he did that with Pogba...
The Pogba situation can be looked at from different angles, it wasn't black n' white.
Regardless, that wasn't prime Fergie. Like I said above, he became less willing to prioritize up-and-coming players towards the end.
I am of the opinion that he would be better playing off Lukaku, or closer to him. People realise Sanchez would be even better in that scenario as well right?
Very little is black and white - not least this Martial situation.
I hear what you're saying in general terms, but Fergie always had a soft spot for strikers - he signed Berbatov when he didn't really need him - and I just feel he would have quite fancied Sanchez regardless of Martial's presence in the squad.
All just opinions though innit...
This username needs to change, way too similar to @Revan
Meh
I can’t take anyone who has “Supports: United” on a United forum seriously. That’s reserved for opposition fans mate
Also, LVG was sacked because he was a dreadful manager for us and winning the FA Cup didn’t outweigh the downsides. It happens. Di Matteo wasn’t kept on at Chelsea after winning the fecking champions league, but obviously that doesn’t suit your claims. The reality is that, in general, winning one trophy doesn’t change long-term plans.
Not sure ‘competition’ is the most accurate word to describe the Martial/Sanchez situation.
Just in the same season, he had a more genuine ‘competition’ situation with Marcus Rashford, and showed he could handle it, and won it fair and square before you-know-what.
Serious question mate, you’re labeled as a Chelsea fan, yet all you ever do is post pro Mourinho, anti Woodward stuff. You barely post anything in any Chelsea related threads, besides saying that they play boring football this season. Are you actually a Chelsea fan?Fook me you ruined him.
Bloody well said mate. Nothing further to add.
Bingo - Jose put Rashford straight up against Martial when he could've chosen to play two strikers a game l. That never happened & Martial over did Rashford on the left flank & was coming in to some goal scoring form - only to be replaced by a winger who had no form at arsenal and had barely trained at United whilst also having experience at RW - a position we have no one at.
At that point - Ronaldo or Rooney would work hard for sure but would still be pi*sd for sure & attempt to leave the club as they tried to do anyway.
Martial's lack of effort is overstated due to him being purely a not very good defensive player & that is only the case because Jose's tactics literally relies on allowing the opposition the ball whilst we defend to wait to attack. Not just martial - there are many players in the world right now & legends of the past that playing that game does not suit to as it literally requires a team of 6 ji sung parks and 5willians - all playing a reactive type of football which can be 50/50 at times.
Play him under a manager who does not prioritise counterattack as our main attack - I think people will realise his effort has improved because he simply won't struggle as much.
Who's that?
Weird I thought this thread was about Martial? Love coming into a thread and being greeted by off topic stuff.
Yep, apologies, my fault. I suggested Mourinho was in decline and this was the reason the board won't sell Martial, then it got out of hand.
Looks like there's no news about Martial signing the contract (hence us going off-topic). Hopefully they're just going through the fine print and an announcement will come soon. If Martial is waiting until Mourinho goes, he'll have to wait until the end of the season at least.
My guess is he was referring to Fergie but Fergie won 13 league titles with us.
Keep this thread on topic.
You don't sound very confident.
Anyway, back to Martial: the signing must have been close for Mourinho to suggest it was nearly official. Why would there be a u-turn? Surely the conditions now are exactly the same as those which were in place when the two parties first sat down? Martial can't have u-turned on the basis of the Burnley result, can he?
The lad has done very little in a United shirt, if he wants to go else where, then good luck to him!
Nothing for fans to get bothered about in this contract talk...if he goes on a free transfer it’s the Glazers who should care not fans on the internet.
Watch the Games, Ignore the BS
Nothing for fans to get bothered about in this contract talk...if he goes on a free transfer it’s the Glazers who should care not fans on the internet.
Watch the Games, Ignore the BS
The way he dribbles does not seem to put any pressure on fullbacks because they have the ability to fall deep and move martial in directions away from goal ie to the corner flag or the touchline.
As a forward with the equal ability to direct his attacks centrally or wide - he can target the CB's who do not have the ability to fall back nor push martial away from the goal because it ultimately causes significant gaps in their defensive system.
It literally creates them to sweat on the spot & the lad needs to play with another striker to actually capitalise on that type of football.
Martial to me has the capability to beat Virgil van dijk by a simple one or two trick move than be given all the chance in the world to take on Alexander Arnold. It's got nothing to do with the player - but the type of football martial ends up having to play as a pure winger with all the time on the ball.
Really hope to see it soon.
As a forward with the equal ability to direct his attacks centrally or wide - he can target the CB's who do not have the ability to fall back nor push martial away from the goal because it ultimately causes significant gaps in their defensive system.
It literally creates them to sweat on the spot & the lad needs to play with another striker to actually capitalise on that type of football.
Martial to me has the capability to beat Virgil van dijk by a simple one or two trick move than be given all the chance in the world to take on Alexander Arnold. It's got nothing to do with the player - but the type of football martial ends up having to play as a pure winger with all the time on the ball.
Really hope to see it soon.