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2023-24 Performances


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Teja

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It’s anyones guess whether ETH can actually implement that at this point though
Yep this. One of the reasons I want him out is that any decent coach will have a good off the ball pressing system locked in by now. The lack of goals and build up play woes can be explained away (due to injuries) or fixed with better players but just the fact that we still can't seem to press with any coherence is pretty damning. That's just squarely on the coach.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
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Yep this. One of the reasons I want him out is that any decent coach will have a good off the ball pressing system locked in by now. The lack of goals and build up play woes can be explained away (due to injuries) or fixed with better players but just the fact that we still can't seem to press with any coherence is pretty damning. That's just squarely on the coach.
Confused by this post - one of the few things we are pretty good at is pressing. That's reflected in the stats too, it's quite clear what he wants from us from a press standpoint.

In terms of final third play and positioning on counter transitions - sure, needs a ton of work.
 

Teja

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Confused by this post - one of the few things we are pretty good at is pressing. That's reflected in the stats too, it's quite clear what he wants from us from a press standpoint.

In terms of final third play and positioning on counter transitions - sure, needs a ton of work.
Are we? Against top sides, we leave tons of space in the middle and they easily find ways to create a free man. See the Bayern / City games and how much space we vacated with our system against them. It's part of the reason why we have such abysmal possession stats against the top six. I feel Ten Hag sets up a system and that sort of works for about 5 minutes. Then the opposition aren't idiots and vary their build up play based on what we're doing and we look clueless.

The thing we're consistently good at is sitting in a mid block and forcing turnovers that result in counter attacks. That's not nothing but I don't think we're particularly good at pressing opposition goal kicks / deep free kicks. The press is too easily bypassed and results in shots on our goal.

I'm curious about stats too - I'd love to dig if you have more pointers. I know there are much fancier stats that take game situation into account to measure pressing effectiveness but I haven't found any open data sources.
 

VP89

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Are we? Against top sides, we leave tons of space in the middle and they easily find ways to create a free man. See the Bayern / City games and how much space we vacated with our system against them. It's part of the reason why we have such abysmal possession stats against the top six.

The thing we're consistently good at is sitting in a mid block and forcing turnovers that result in counter attacks. That's not nothing but I don't think we're particularly good at pressing opposition goal kicks / deep free kicks. The press is too easily bypassed and results in shots on our goal.

I'm curious about stats too - I'd love to dig if you have more pointers. I know there are much fancier stats that take game situation into account to measure pressing effectiveness but I haven't found any open data sources.
We actually press very well off the ball, we are open when we surrender the ball high up the pitch and fail to recover. We don' do a low block approach so much - I think we are still in the top 3 for highest turnovers won in the opponents final third.
 

Teja

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We actually press very well off the ball, we are open when we surrender the ball high up the pitch and fail to recover. We don' do a low block approach so much - I think we are still in the top 3 for highest turnovers won in the opponents final third.
Agree to disagree then. I'd suggest re-watching the full City / Spurs / Bayern games without the pressure that comes from watching it live if you want to dig into what my complaints are. City are masters at creating that overload, so maybe it's not the best case study but Bayern barely being in 2nd gear in a dead rubber game for them bypassing our press with ease is pretty damning. The biggest thing to look out for is how often teams can play through our press attempts by creating an extra man or finding a good switch of play. You can fast forward as soon as we have the ball / the opponent brings the ball to our half. Each game shouldn't take more than 10-15 mins to scan through.
 

lex talionis

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Agree to disagree then. I'd suggest re-watching the full City / Spurs / Bayern games without the pressure that comes from watching it live if you want to dig into what my complaints are. City are masters at creating that overload, so maybe it's not the best case study but Bayern barely being in 2nd gear in a dead rubber game for them bypassing our press with ease is pretty damning. The biggest thing to look out for is how often teams can play through our press attempts by creating an extra man or finding a good switch of play. You can fast forward as soon as we have the ball / the opponent brings the ball to our half. Each game shouldn't take more than 10-15 mins to scan through.
Well put. Whether a top PL club of a League Two side, we are too easily cut through. Our pressing is disjointed and we rely too heavily on a single CDM who just can’t hold it all on his own. Thus we concede too many chances on goal on a keeper who has been struggling all season, and in turn our finishing has been poor. Poor defending and poor attacking is the perfect recipe for losing matches and we now find ourselves out of Europe and at risk of finishing the season in the bottom half of the table. I’m sure I speak for many here by expressing discomfort with the box we have put ourselves into with daft transfers and daft tactics. What saves ETH is that there is literally no one who is available right now who would be an upgrade on him. Maybe this summer, but not right now.
 

NewGlory

United make me feel dirty. And not in a sexy way.
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the internet says hell be available mid Feb - so can he be effective in Feb? Prob not
Where would you play him even if he is available?

DMF - Mount - Bruno midfield has repeatedly proven to be an absolute disaster. Bruno is not getting benched to try Mount on his position (even thought we should at least try it) and playing him on the right of the attack when you have Amad and Garnacho available, not to mention Antony is insane.

Ten Hag should be fired for making Mount his priority signing in the summer, alone
 

Borys

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Confused by this post - one of the few things we are pretty good at is pressing. That's reflected in the stats too, it's quite clear what he wants from us from a press standpoint.

In terms of final third play and positioning on counter transitions - sure, needs a ton of work.
I don't think we're good at pressing at all. We may be pressing a lot, but it hardly translates to winning the ball back.

Similar how player making large number of tackles doesn't necessarily mean he's any good at it.

I think our pressing is shite, it's just pushing players forward and I also believe we would've been better off if Bruno didn't "press" so much. He's too easy to go past, in fact that's something to applies to our "pressing" in general.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
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Dec 6, 2015
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I don't think we're good at pressing at all. We may be pressing a lot, but it hardly translates to winning the ball back.

Similar how player making large number of tackles doesn't necessarily mean he's any good at it.

I think our pressing is shite, it's just pushing players forward and I also believe we would've been better off if Bruno didn't "press" so much. He's too easy to go past, in fact that's something to applies to our "pressing" in general.
Statistically that doesn't add up. We've been much improved in pressing and balls won this season vs last season.
 

McGrathsipan

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Where would you play him even if he is available?

DMF - Mount - Bruno midfield has repeatedly proven to be an absolute disaster. Bruno is not getting benched to try Mount on his position (even thought we should at least try it) and playing him on the right of the attack when you have Amad and Garnacho available, not to mention Antony is insane.

Ten Hag should be fired for making Mount his priority signing in the summer, alone
Cant disagree with you
 

Red Royal

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Where would you play him even if he is available?

DMF - Mount - Bruno midfield has repeatedly proven to be an absolute disaster. Bruno is not getting benched to try Mount on his position (even thought we should at least try it) and playing him on the right of the attack when you have Amad and Garnacho available, not to mention Antony is insane.

Ten Hag should be fired for making Mount his priority signing in the summer, alone
Agree with this 100% I think Mount could be a decent player who will mprove our squad, but with a year left and his past injury year the move has backfired big time.
 

criticalanalysis

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Statistically that doesn't add up. We've been much improved in pressing and balls won this season vs last season.
Amount of pressures and balls won are good singular statistics on their own but what others are saying and I'd agree with, is that this doesn't translate to 'good pressing'.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
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Amount of pressures and balls won are good singular statistics on their own but what others are saying and I'd agree with, is that this doesn't translate to 'good pressing'.
I don't want to debate with someone called criticalanalysis.
I'll leave in tears.
 

Borys

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Statistically that doesn't add up. We've been much improved in pressing and balls won this season vs last season.
That might be true, but do you know (and this is a serious question) how many times our pressing is beaten?
Imagine we press like mad men, commiting bodies forward etc, and win the ball 5 times up the pitch a game. PL average is 3/game.
But at the same time we will be easily beaten 10 times per game. PL average is 5.

Are we doing good job with our "pressing"? My point is - we go for high volume pressing, but that doesn't mean we're a good pressing side. We play chances game, and the chances are against us.
 
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criticalanalysis

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I don't want to debate with someone called criticalanalysis.
I'll leave in tears.
That's fair. Having frequented other forums in my younger years, I was incredibly pretentious at the time when I made this username thinking I was going to be so objective, smart and analytical compared to others on the interwebs. Turns out I was browsing crappy forums with crappy posters. Now on the caf I'm just a goldfish in the ocean. No longer special or unique in my head...

I guess you've won this debate now, feck you.
 

Lee565

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Mar 6, 2019
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5,120
This And the Antony signing are sackable offences, we are mid table and unable to do anything in the market because we are hamstrung by ffp because of ten hag awful recruitment like mount for 65 million, the guy deserves no excuses for the state of our season when he has been given such freedom in who to sell and buy like no other manager has had since fergie.
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
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Aug 13, 2011
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Canada
Am I misreading things or does that latest news seem like it's not a guarantee he plays again this season? Just hopeful he does? What the hell did he get
 

Ali Dia

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May 10, 2013
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Just like Rasmus he has a hell of a lot to offer when he’s fully fit in a happy team. I wish people would just stop writing off players until there’s at least a decent sample size at this club. It’s painful. More Worryingly he does seem to be taking ages to settle in when we’ve thrown Rasmus in at the deep end. Mount is supposed to be a leader but he casts the figure of a man who hasn’t found his feet at all yet. Not all signings will make it. He basically has another year after this before we look to refresh again so he needs to majorly step it up or he’ll get left behind
 

Leethal

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Oct 19, 2008
Messages
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Just like Rasmus he has a hell of a lot to offer when he’s fully fit in a happy team. I wish people would just stop writing off players until there’s at least a decent sample size at this club. It’s painful. More Worryingly he does seem to be taking ages to settle in when we’ve thrown Rasmus in at the deep end. Mount is supposed to be a leader but he casts the figure of a man who hasn’t found his feet at all yet. Not all signings will make it. He basically has another year after this before we look to refresh again so he needs to majorly step it up or he’ll get left behind
Problem there, is there is no decent sample size to work from. Because he doesn't offer one, currently.

Fans have every right to judge their opinions based on performances. Fact of the matter he hasn't performed due to never being fit, and when fit, he hasn't set the place on fire also. He was shite for 18 months prior to signing, and now he continues to be shite WHEN fit. Why should he be afforded the luxury of time? It's not like it's a culture shock of moving leagues; he has played in the premier league his entire career. He's just not an overly great footballer, relatively speaking.

I stand by my original opinion. Get rid of him ASAP. He's already stinking up the iconic number 7 shirt. Much the same as Antony - chalk it up as another expensive mistake in the transfer market, and hopefully with INEOS in place, ETH won't have free reign to make these costly abysmal signings. Mount is on too much wages to be a squad player; of which that's the level he is at. Move him on.

By Erik Ten Hag's quote, it doesn't appear he will have any -if all- of an impact by end of season. 60m pounds, ladies and gents. 60m pounds on a player that was in the last year of his contract, we could've gotten on a free. It's so laughingly bad to the point ETH almost has to be investigated for under the table transfer dealings.
I am sure he is a very good player for us. But, first of all, what’s now important is we have to do it very secure to get him fit. Secure in the process, step by step, don’t force it and then hopefully by the end of the season he can stay fit and fight his way into the team, or at least play a role in his team.
 
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Leethal

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How do you know it's shithouse transfer?
Because he hasn't played? 60m quid for a player who was available on a free? And on the back of 18 months of dog shit performances for club and country, and coming off an injury?

List goes on.
 

Flying_Heckfish

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Massive gamble fails to pay off in spectacular fashion. Wild stuff.

Let's hope he gets fit for next season and the new boss can get a tune out of him
 

Stadjer

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Apr 5, 2013
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Where would you play him even if he is available?

DMF - Mount - Bruno midfield has repeatedly proven to be an absolute disaster. Bruno is not getting benched to try Mount on his position (even thought we should at least try it) and playing him on the right of the attack when you have Amad and Garnacho available, not to mention Antony is insane.

Ten Hag should be fired for making Mount his priority signing in the summer, alone
Repeatedly proven? Mount has hardly been able to play for Manchester United. Mount + Bruno have hardly played together or did i miss some games?
 

Leethal

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Oct 19, 2008
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Repeatedly proven? Mount has hardly been able to play for Manchester United. Mount + Bruno have hardly played together or did i miss some games?
No, but when they did play, I think Mount totaled something embarrassingly pathetic like 30 odd touches in 3x games. I don't recall exact number, but it was less than Fred was averaging in a single game. This was from a new player, wearing our iconic number 7, trying to prove himself to the fans and justify his exorbitant transfer fee and wages. In a central midfield role. He'd put Manchester United's hide and seek champion, McTominay, to shame. At least with Scott, though, he has some goals in his locker - despite not doing much for 90. Sorry, Mason, but running around portraying the image of someone who's busy isn't enough. You have to, you know, actually do something on the pitch. Have some output. But first let's actually get on the pitch, eh?

It'd also probably be advisable to refrain from posting embarrassing dancing TikTok videos while you're sat earning 200k+ a week offering absolutely nothing to your employer. We had enough of that shite with Pogba, Lingard et al. Didn't work out well for them.
 

Leethal

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Lovely when our internet fans rally around new signings :drool:
Never liked him as a player. Always thought he was massively overrated due to being English, and just ran around a lot, being busy, and not really amounting to much. It would be incredibly fickle of United fans to suddenly default to appreciating a player, just because he signs for us. He has to win fans over that do not rate him with his performances. How's that going?
 

Balljy

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Never liked him as a player. Always thought he was massively overrated due to being English, and just ran around a lot, being busy, and not really amounting to much. It would be incredibly fickle of United fans to suddenly default to appreciating a player, just because he signs for us. He has to win fans over that do not rate him with his performances. How's that going?
We don't know yet, is probably the answer. If he's injured for most of the next year too it won't be looking great but not because of performances.
 

TheReligion

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Never liked him as a player. Always thought he was massively overrated due to being English, and just ran around a lot, being busy, and not really amounting to much. It would be incredibly fickle of United fans to suddenly default to appreciating a player, just because he signs for us. He has to win fans over that do not rate him with his performances. How's that going?
Seek help
 

Leethal

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Seek help
Because I do not rate a football player? Excuse me Mr. Psychiatrist, I am here to see you because I do not think Mason Mount is a very good footballer, and Manchester United shouldn't have bought him.

You're ridiculous.

The one that should seek help is the one that has amassed 50000 posts on an internet forum. See that grass over there? Go touch it.
 

TheReligion

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Because I do not rate a football player? Excuse me Mr. Psychiatrist, I am here to see you because I do not think Mason Mount is a very good footballer, and Manchester United shouldn't have bought him.

You're ridiculous.

The one that should seek help is the one that has amassed 50000 posts on an internet forum. See that grass over there? Go touch it.
You have 700 posts on this forum and over 100 are in the Mason Mount thread.

You are obsessed. In a weird stalker, psycho kind of way.