You can get as passionate as you like without resorting to some of the clear wumming you’ve been doing. A lot of your posts have been to take the piss out of messi and nothing more. That doesn’t help anything.
It’s only this thread I get this passionate about, anywhere else on the forum I’m nowhere as dialled in or riled up for.
And I have been using respectable language. It’s probably the disagreeing with strong opinions part which rubs the wrong way which I get but like I said, no need to take things personally or anything...it’s an internet debate afterall and just passions going after one another.
But yea thanks for your $0.02, I’ll definitely take into consideration moving forward.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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They won't give two shits about it if they win the CL, winning it for a third time in a row would be incredibly special.
CL being the priority is not a selective argument, it's the obvious truth and it is always going to be the case. Especially so for Real Madrid. There isn't a single Madrid fan in the world who would take the league above the CL and I'm guessing most of them would take 1 CL over 2 league titles too.
I think United being on 20-3 compared to Liverpool's 18-5 makes a few United fans change their minds about it.
I think that for clubs like Real and Barcelona, winning the CL is a much bigger priority. On the other hand, I reckon Liverpool might rather win the league at this point to close the gap with United.
For a team that has won neither like Leicester, I don't know. I think Leicester winning the league is more impressive than Leicester winning the CL.
Yes, there are certain cases where a club might prefer the league but in general the CL is definitely the bigger of the 2 for these big clubs. And it's definitely the case for both Barcelona and Madrid.
Your entire existence on this forum is now defined by defending Ronaldo - just seems silly. Anyway, I guess it's better than a decade ago when you were the RVN > Henry guy, IIRC (Btw, do you still believe that?)Perhaps because he's a club legend who has won more for us than most players?? As for cheats relentlessly, the other guy doesn't?
No, not at all. My blood doesn't boil with Ronaldo's success either. And when he's not being a stroppy diva, I enjoy watching him play. But there's a difference between liking a player and the devotion shown on here. Football's a team sport but these lot (and there are people on the Messi side as well) are treating it like tennis.
See this is exactly what I mean. So far up Ronaldo's arse that he denies Ronaldo is a narcissist. FFS man, even his mum wouldn't defend him so much.He won us a lot. He wanted to go to Madrid but still gave us an extra year. Cheats?
I hate you."The Donald Trump of CR7 fans"
@Snowjoe change the voting options back
I don't think I was wrong with that assessment at that point in time (RvN probably did as much in 2003 as RvP in 2013).
Oh, he have us another year? How noble from him. What a honor. Can we ever repay that dept?He won us a lot. He wanted to go to Madrid but still gave us an extra year. Cheats?
You are right.He's been amazing in Champions league but the first months in la liga were very poor.
I don't know if indifference, physical form or save energy for key games/World Cup but Madrid can't give up la liga in december
And using the same logic, Ronaldo only wins competitions when Messi is off form, Do you not see how blinkered your argument is. What can be applied to one can be to the other. You are judging one much harsher than the other. Fact is Messi never had a spell in his career where he was sitting on 2 league goals when Barca were eliminated for the title race. Never.
You can't see how every argument you use for Ronaldo can just as easily be levelled against him.
The league is won and you're being stupidly pedantic about it. Messi has achieved that, Real are not guarnateed to win the CL by any stretch, La Liga is over, the fat ladies been singing since before Ronaldo realised the season started.Yes he was poor to begin the year so what. Is that the end of the world? No, because as aforementioned, Madrid have made it clear over the years they prioritize the CL over everything else.
“What has Messi achieved thus far this season, because until they actually win La Liga, it’s the grand total of feck all as far as I can see”.
...and like I’ve previously said, doesn’t that show how much Ronaldo has picked it up and Messi has stalled that even after such a horrendous start to the year he still has more goals than Messi? And again, just hysterical Barca/Messi fanbois are trying to argue success in the league vs mid table clubs should be held to a higher standard than Ronaldo scoring round after round whilst carrying Madrid at a historic pace/level never before seen in the CL vs the top European clubs in the world. This really is the twilight zone considering this is what the fanbois are grasping on to as an argument - at least in their eyes
Scoring goals when competitions are dead, about as useful as scoring in friendlies... His league goals this season count for feck all. The same reason many people are voting KDB over Salah this season, Salah has produced all season, but KDB pretty much produced when it counted and his form has dipped when the league is done.
You don't understand the argument at all. The league is the bread and butter for every team, its bullshit to say its not a priority, the fact is the CL has been won by some ridiculously average teams, teams not at their peak. No one is knocking Ronaldo's achievments just asking the blinkered to take off thier glasses. Messi has won the league this season, its done. Ronaldo has won nothing thus far. You like Cal, seem to call Messi out on his failings but are completely blind to Ronaldo's. If Messi had three months like Ronaldo's start to the year, you two would move the goal posts entirely.
It is completely justifiable to say thus far this season, Messi has been better than Ronaldo as he has been marginally over there careers.
Actually, Messi hasn't even been getting to the SF of the CL in recent seasons, so perhaps good form Messi could take them into the SF next year.
Fact is Ronaldo never had a spell in his career where he hasn't scored in the CL QF for years and years? (You see how pointless this is?)
It is completely justifiable to say thus far this YEAR, Ronaldo has been better than Messi as he has been over their careers.
Yes? Listen to SAF interviews. He wanted to go to Madrid in 2008, told the boss and boss said after next year you can. I don't get the deal. Was he supposed to United for life no matter what his preferences?
I think you should watch your tone. Telling people they are up Ronaldo's arse after you're the one attacking a players personality for no reason makes you look like a child.
Whats he won? Messi's won the leaguee.Actually, Messi hasn't even been getting to the SF of the CL in recent seasons, so perhaps good form Messi could take them into the SF next year.
Fact is Ronaldo never had a spell in his career where he hasn't scored in the CL QF for years and years? (You see how pointless this is?)
It is completely justifiable to say thus far this YEAR, Ronaldo has been better than Messi as he has been over their careers.
Here some more European stats for you seeing as its all you care about.
You're also trying to compare one particular round to half a season...
European Goals:
His Highness King of the CL Ronaldo: Goals per Game in Europe = 0.77
Messi Goals per Game in Europe = 0.8
League Goals:
Ronaldo: 0.77
Messi: 0.87
Somebodies better... tell me again which is better 0.8 or 0.77 in Europe and 0.87 vs 0.77 in the league?
Pretty sure Messi is better at everything per match and 90 minutes over their careers.
So no, both this season and over their career, you can make an arguement for it, but it's not justifiable using the way you measure them based on goals alone because Ronaldo loses in every department.
Their career stats are influenced by the fact Ronaldo played a lot more games as a youngster.
Since Ronaldo's been in Madrid:
Champions League
Ronaldo - 1.07 goals per game
Messi - 0.9 goals per game
La Liga
Ronaldo - 1.07 goals per game
Messi - 1.07 goals per game
Agree with you on the last part though, using their numbers to justify who is better is stupid.
Why my friend would only Madrid count? Pretty sure alot of his followers are quick enough to point out his CL with United when counting trophies but again its besides the point. Stats can't be used, nor really can trophy count. I mean Anderson has more PL's than Gerrard and the same amount of CL. Plus there is the fact when Ronaldo joined RM he was closer to his peak then Messi age wise and is 2 years older. Messi may or may not have 2 years left after Ronaldo hangs up his boots but atm it looks like both could play until nearly 40.
What I'm trying to point out to Cal, is you can't use one stick to beat a guy but not judge the other the same. There is the tiniest difference between them so much its hard to call whose better but the majority do plump for Messi. He can't give Ronaldo a free pass for taking 3 months off whilst blasting Messi for a bad 90 minutes in Rome (though he's doing his damndest to try). Its incredibly one sided.
Agreed
Very fair. In fact I'm with you - it's become an obsession for people, how well Ronaldo does in comparison to Messi. I don't understand why we can't just appreciate both. As a counter to my point about Ronaldo's service for United there is Messi's ruining what could have been a couple more nights of history for us. Yet I don't hold that against him when judging his status as a once in a generation great.
It's not just this debate...the world needs a bit more generosity in compromise and agreeing to disagree.
While you are under contract( huge contract) your preferences mean shit. Player can go where he wants and has every right to do with his career what he thinks is the best but in the same time must respect contract. He had contract until 2012 with us. He signed it. Without pressure. So his desires in that period are irrelevant for the club. 2008 he cried for madrid, sulked , said that players are modern slaves( can't forgive that) and basically twist fergies hand. So he didn't gave one more year to us. We gave him 3 more years in real.
That is why i don't understand ronaldo love. Fantastic player. Fantastic 2 seasons for us. But he left his club like coutinho, modric, suarez.
Edit: look at de gea. We all know his desires. Did he ever said in public that he wants to leave, cried and sulked? No.
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If you don’t understand the difference between being a key player for a team (Gerrard), vs being a squad player (Anderson), there’s not much point arguing with you.
Ronaldo and Messi are both the star of their respective teams and both teams rely heavily on them to function. That’s why their performances are often directly linked to the teams results.
I did not give Ronaldo a free pass for a bad 3 months. But I have said many times I value the big game performance and Ronaldo has delivered again and again in recent seasons.
Messi has not done that, and whether you see him being ‘consistent’ or ‘flat track bully’ is just a difference in point of view
So Fergie, the guy who has crap to say about so many of his players that left to other clubs (sometimes even a bit unfairly) has nothing negative to say about Ronaldo and how he handled himself but Andycoleno9 on the CAF knows how terrible Ronaldo was to him
This slave quote, any reliable source?
Also player contracts mean shit, only a bigger fee.
He didn't say that slave thing. Blatter said it and a few other things, Ronaldo said he agreed with him but it's not clear if he meant the slavery part or not.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/ronaldo-i-am-a-slave-864958.html - then the media around the world took it out of context and put titles with some quotes on it.
Plenty of United fans here hold a grudge on him for leaving when it is not deserved.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/ronaldo-i-am-a-slave-864958.html - then the media around the world took it out of context and put titles with some quotes on it.
Plenty of United fans here hold a grudge on him for leaving when it is not deserved.
As i remember( if i am wrong, i apologize ) blatter then said( about us refusing to sell) that football players are modern slaves, and ronaldo later said that he agrees with him.
That's my understanding too. Blatter said the slave thing.
This.
I think all this trophy count is ridiculous. There is no sense in using team performances to judge players as individuals. The 25 year old Cristiano would be as good in the current Madrid squad es the 33 year old. And the 30 year old Messi would also flourish in Guardiola's Barcelona. Probably less explosive but therefore as a better set piece taker and playmaker.
In the same way, Messi would probably be much more deadly up front if you swap current Iniesta and Rakitic for Modric and Kroos. The same vice versa if Xavi and Iniesta played for Real in 2009-2013.
After their careers, one of them may end up with more big titles and it will be the one who had the best team for the longer period. Doesn't mean that he was the better player.
In the same way, Messi would probably be much more deadly up front if you swap current Iniesta and Rakitic for Modric and Kroos. The same vice versa if Xavi and Iniesta played for Real in 2009-2013.
After their careers, one of them may end up with more big titles and it will be the one who had the best team for the longer period. Doesn't mean that he was the better player.
Ronaldo actually has the same goal ratio as Messi in the CL and a better assist ratio. NOTE: The number of assists varies according to the source, I included here the maximum number for both players.
You probably included the CL qualifiers with Sporting and such and UEFA Cup games with Sporting. EDIT: Yeah I misread you mean all european games. In this case it's also including games in Sporting.
In Leagues only Messi has better numbers, but they are similar in goals since Ronaldo moved to Real.
Comparing goals in different leagues is very tricky.
Assists in the CL:
Messi 34 in 125 apps (0.27 assists/app)
Ronaldo 42 in 150 apps (0.28 assists/app)
Goals scored in CL:
Messi 100 in 125 apps (0.80 goals/app)
Ronaldo 120 in 150 apps (0.80 goals/app)
Messi has 60 goals in the group stages (60%) and 40 (40%) in the knockout stages.
Ronaldo has 60 goals in the group stages (50%) and 60 (50%) in the knockout stages.
Round of 16: Messi 24 goals (24%) Ronaldo 20 goals (17%)
Quarter-Finals: Messi 10 goals (10%) Ronaldo 23 goals (19%)
Semi-Finals: Messi 4 goals (4%) Ronaldo 13 goals (11%)
Finals: Messi 2 goals (2%) Ronaldo 4 goals (3%)
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Wait. He said that he agrees with blatter. So how it is out of context? You are right. Some people hold a grudge( maybe i do too) but why change history here?
He said he agreed with Blatter, not necessarily on the slavery comments. Think he was just agreeing that players have less power, not that they're modern age slaves... What happened was very different from him saying he felt like a slave a Manchester United so when the headlines are like the one in the link above it takes it out context.
They're polar opposites and yet people still want to have a dick measuring contest over their statistics. Both have scored over 600 career goals, produced in cup finals, broken countless records domestically and in the Champions League and they are both their respective countries all time top goalscorer, beating out greats in Eusebio and Batistuta. They've been doing it for over 10 fecking years scoring at the same obscene rates as greats like Muller and Puskas were doing 40+ years ago.
Messi is more technically gifted, better dribbler, passer and creator, provides the platform for others around him to look/feel like a million dollars. Ronaldo has a stronger mental approach, he's better aerially, physicially, more athletic and has a bigger killer instinct. He's also showing signs of being a great leader. IMO, Messi is a genius on the ball, Ronaldo is a genius off it. They should be a match made in heaven, and the same pillocks calling Messi a bottler right now were probably the same ones calling Ronaldo a bottler between 2009 and 2013. Give it a rest.
Messi is more technically gifted, better dribbler, passer and creator, provides the platform for others around him to look/feel like a million dollars. Ronaldo has a stronger mental approach, he's better aerially, physicially, more athletic and has a bigger killer instinct. He's also showing signs of being a great leader. IMO, Messi is a genius on the ball, Ronaldo is a genius off it. They should be a match made in heaven, and the same pillocks calling Messi a bottler right now were probably the same ones calling Ronaldo a bottler between 2009 and 2013. Give it a rest.
No, lot of work tracing all my posts, get a life.
when you look at poll results each time Ronaldo scores
Pele did play for Brazil not Portugal !Win 3 World Cups. Pele is the greatest of all time I am afraid.
If Ronny played for Brazil or Germany would he have won a World Cup ? .
George best never even went to a World Cup still one of the worlds best players
Yes he was poor to begin the year so what. Is that the end of the world? No, because as aforementioned, Madrid have made it clear over the years they prioritize the CL over everything else.
...and like I’ve previously said, doesn’t that show how much Ronaldo has picked it up and Messi has stalled that even after such a horrendous start to the year he still has more goals than Messi? And again, just hysterical Barca/Messi fanbois are trying to argue success in the league vs mid table clubs should be held to a higher standard than Ronaldo scoring round after round whilst carrying Madrid at a historic pace/level never before seen in the CL vs the top European clubs in the world. This really is the twilight zone considering this is what the fanbois are grasping on to as an argument - at least in their eyes
You seriously think Barca prioritize La Liga over the CL?
It's even more ridiculous to base your argument on the league and brush off the bigger competition.
This is a lie, they’re both tied in Europe after yesterday’s goal by Ronaldo.
> Ronaldo 120 goals in 150 games (0.8)
> Messi 100 goals in 125 games (0.8)
...slightly misleading in that it took Ronaldo 30 odd games for Mufc to get off the mark.
So that initial stint stains the record which is already mind boggling as is.
Be interested in seeing the record from the point they both played for Spain's big two. Ronaldo’s entry level was a whole other thing compared to Messi which people generally are aware of.
Since Ronaldo became a force, he has eclipsed Messi Goal scoring in CL & it’s not even a debate.
No its not a lie. Ronaldo has scored 121 goals in 156 European Games. Fact.
0 in 3 for Sporting, 16 in 55 at United and 105 in 98 at Real. That's 121 in 156.
And unsurprisingly he gets another pass because it took 30 odd games to get off the mark, like he gets a pass for his early season because the leagues not a priority. Are we going giving him a pass for anything else? maybe he should get one for every game he hasn't scored in because it suits your argument.
Since he became a force... because Messi has been a force since he started. Your twisting things, cutting things, removing things, editing things and practically bending over backwards to try and make his record surpass Messi's but the fact of the matter is as of yet it doesn't.
He has played 156 european games and scored 121 goals. Messi has played 125 games and scored 100. the math doesn't lie, sugar coat it anyway you want over their respective careers Messi has the better scoring rate in the league, in Europe.
Adding in assists in Europe Ronaldo has been involved in a hugely impressive 155 goals in 156 games. Phenomenal. Messi has been involved in 126 in 125 games, just slightly more phenomenal.
Heres a bit of your style stat editing:
Messi is also more than two years younger. How about this between the seasons ending at the ages of 20 to 30, both players played exactly 113 European games (how weird is that)
Messi has 98 goals in those 113, at the same age Ronaldo scored 78 goals.
CR7 has scored an absolutely amazing 43 goals since then. Incredible, but we haven't yet seen Messi at that age. You have zero guarantee Messi will not do the same. In fact 24 goals in the same period will see him still have a better record than Ronaldo.
Page 229 and we still have people compare their career numbers as if the way their games are distributed throughout their careers has no effect on those numbers.
Ronaldo should have been injured more often as a youngster so his goal per game averages look better.
Ronaldo should have been injured more often as a youngster so his goal per game averages look better.
He did the same in 08/09. I think since 2008 he has probably been better in the CL than the league in most seasons. Can't think of any other player that applies to over such a long period. I'm sure it's part conditioning and part mental. In 08/09 he had injury issues and I think he really had to choose to prioritise. Looks like the same is happening in the last few years. Pretty amazing how much better he's been in the CL in the latter part of his career. The defining narrative of his career will be how often he flipped the script - he might be totally unique in that.
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