Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

[ThatsGreat]

Which goes to show just how much Arteta has dropped the standards. Under Wenger "just 4th" led to mass protests to get him out, as soon as Emery had his first season and got a big kitty expectations went through the roof to the point it merely took a bad few weeks for general opinion to do a 180.

When is Arteta actually going to be held to the expectations fitting to a) the size of the club he's managing and b) the backing he's had?

Under Wenger we were a stable top four team, not being able to take the next step - winning the title though we got close to it in 2014 and 2016. Emery was brought in with the expectation that he would do better than Wenger. When he got the sack it was the expectation that a longer rebuild will be needed, since then Arteta has got us 8th, 5th and should logically progress to a top four place this season.
So you could say this is the season that he's going to be held to the expectations of CL and get the sack if he fails. If he succeeds and continues with us in the CL the next season then he would've got us to where Wenger had us. The season after that he'd be expected to challenge for the title, and if he failed then he'll likely be sacked. Those are probably the goalposts the club have given him.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

What’s more likely- Arteta gets top 4 this season or Arteta gets sacked midseason

 

[Quagmire Maguire]

Just signed Jesus, at the beginning of the summer I was really hoping we were going to be able to get rid of Rashford to them. Does anyone want Rashford?

 

[Becks00]

What’s more likely- Arteta gets top 4 this season or Arteta gets sacked midseason

Hopefully neither of those is likely.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

As he’s been given his signings this Summer I expect the media to hold him to a high standard.

 

[horsechoker]

What’s more likely- Arteta gets top 4 this season or Arteta gets sacked midseason

Arteta not getting top 4 and not getting sacked

But I'd say him being sacked is more likely, he's at the stage where Ole was at the beginning of last season. Another rough period might not be looked upon so favourably.

 

[marktan]

They really love overspending on players don't they?

£45m on Jesus.. he's not a bad player but he's not a very good striker either. Like 13 goals in each of his last two seasons playing for an attacking City team?

That's what £130m on White, Ramsdale and Jesus?

 

[Maluco]

He immediately improves them. He has good movement and I think this move shows he is ready to play as a 9.

The problem Arsenal have is they absolutely need cover at LB, RB and energy in midfield because their current back ups are nowhere near good enough.

Tielemens is an upgrade on Xhaka, but it’s when Partey misses that performances suffer. They need a quality ball carrier and engine in there. Tielemens is not that.

Tierney cannot be relied upon to stay fit all season and Tavares is terrible. It’s a pressing need.

I don’t really think Holding is a good enough backup for where they want to be either.

Still a lot of questions for me, but an undeniably exciting front line.

Raphinha/Tielemens are not the right buys though for me.

 

[Klopper76]

They really love overspending on players don't they?

£45m on Jesus.. he's not a bad player but he's not a very good striker either. Like 13 goals in each of his last two seasons playing for an attacking City team?

That's what £130m on White, Ramsdale and Jesus?

I think 14 is his highest output in a league season. That being said, they were desperate for a striker last season and this does address that.

Pep’s either not played Jesus or stuck him out on the right over the past few seasons from what I remember. Maybe he does well as a main striker in a side.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

I think 14 is his highest output in a league season. That being said, they were desperate for a striker last season and this does address that.

Pep’s either not played Jesus or stuck him out on the right over the past few seasons from what I remember. Maybe he does well as a main striker in a side.

Tim Vickery said on talkSport the other day that it was Jesus himself who lost his confidence and requested to play wide after the 2018 WC. Not exactly encouraging if Lego Pep plans to play him there.

 

[marktan]

I think 14 is his highest output in a league season. That being said, they were desperate for a striker last season and this does address that.

Pep’s either not played Jesus or stuck him out on the right over the past few seasons from what I remember. Maybe he does well as a main striker in a side.

He plays like a wide player playing up front, whereas they need someone with a presence that can bang then in. Had they been successful with Vlahovic that would've been a game changer for them as they have a lot of creators.

 

[Ayoba]

They really love overspending on players don't they?

£45m on Jesus.. he's not a bad player but he's not a very good striker either. Like 13 goals in each of his last two seasons playing for an attacking City team?

That's what £130m on White, Ramsdale and Jesus?

43 million is about right for a player of his calibre in today's market! I mean, how much did we pay amad??

 

[Nish115]

They really love overspending on players don't they?

£45m on Jesus.. he's not a bad player but he's not a very good striker either. Like 13 goals in each of his last two seasons playing for an attacking City team?

That's what £130m on White, Ramsdale and Jesus?

141 goals/assists in 236 games for City. Not to mention he's played various roles, and minutes wise even though its 236 games its 14267 minutes which is 158 games in terms of per 90 (he's obviously come off the bench a fair amount).

How many strikers are that productive? £45m is a perfectly fine fee. I'd have hoped for more around £40m, but it is what it is. You're paying for a prem proven player, who shouldn't need a lot of time to adapt.

We overpaid for White because his wages aren't overly massive, so whilst the upfront fee is higher, his age and wages mean he's a more valuable asset.

Similar thing with Ramsdale.

There's logic to most these things, yet people seem to ignore it.

 

[RacingClub]

141 goals/assists in 236 games for City. Not to mention he's played various roles, and minutes wise even though its 236 games its 14267 minutes which is 158 games in terms of per 90 (he's obviously come off the bench a fair amount).

How many strikers are that productive? £45m is a perfectly fine fee. I'd have hoped for more around £40m, but it is what it is. You're paying for a prem proven player, who shouldn't need a lot of time to adapt.

Not to mention that he's young (only a couple of months older than Rashford and a far more complete player) and if he avoids serious injury will give his peak years to Arsenal.

 

[RacingClub]

He immediately improves them. He has good movement and I think this move shows he is ready to play as a 9.

The problem Arsenal have is they absolutely need cover at LB, RB and energy in midfield because their current back ups are nowhere near good enough.

Yup you just need to look at the timeline or the injuries to Tierney, Tomiyasu and Partey and it's obvious that it's where things went pear shaped. No depth at all.

 

[ThatsGreat]

Yup you just need to look at the timeline or the injuries to Tierney, Tomiyasu and Partey and it's obvious that it's where things went pear shaped. No depth at all.

We're also in for Martinez who could cover lb and cm.

 

[ArseHat]

He immediately improves them. He has good movement and I think this move shows he is ready to play as a 9.

The problem Arsenal have is they absolutely need cover at LB, RB and energy in midfield because their current back ups are nowhere near good enough.

Tielemens is an upgrade on Xhaka, but it’s when Partey misses that performances suffer. They need a quality ball carrier and engine in there. Tielemens is not that.

Tierney cannot be relied upon to stay fit all season and Tavares is terrible. It’s a pressing need.

I don’t really think Holding is a good enough backup for where they want to be either.

Still a lot of questions for me, but an undeniably exciting front line.

Raphinha/Tielemens are not the right buys though for me.

That's probably why Arteta/Edu seem to be keen on the likes of Martinez/Zinchenko, someone who can play LB and midfield to varying degrees (CB as well in Martinez's case). Players in the profile of Martinez and Tielemans should be the priority ahead of Raphinha, who'd be more of a luxury signing in comparison, although he'd still be somewhat of a coup.

Also, Saliba would be 3rd choice CB atm, competing for a starting spot, so Holding as 4th option wouldn't be the worst tbf. If someone like Martinez is signed, he'd be further down the pecking order, if not sold.

 

[marktan]

141 goals/assists in 236 games for City. Not to mention he's played various roles, and minutes wise even though its 236 games its 14267 minutes which is 158 games in terms of per 90 (he's obviously come off the bench a fair amount).

How many strikers are that productive? £45m is a perfectly fine fee. I'd have hoped for more around £40m, but it is what it is. You're paying for a prem proven player, who shouldn't need a lot of time to adapt.

We overpaid for White because his wages aren't overly massive, so whilst the upfront fee is higher, his age and wages mean he's a more valuable asset.

Similar thing with Ramsdale.

There's logic to most these things, yet people seem to ignore it.

Just don't rate him as a CF personally. No physical presence, not the most clinical. If it works out then it'll have been a good fee and I'll hold my hands up.

 

[Nish115]

Just don't rate him as a CF personally. No physical presence, not the most clinical. If it works out then it'll have been a good fee and I'll hold my hands up.

Yh he could be more clinical agreed, wouldn't say he has no physical presence though.

 

[Mastadon]

Not getting the criticisms over this signing. Jesus is a PL proven player and has been in England for 6 years where he starts more often than not for the best team in the country. Arteta has also worked with him before and they both seem to get along and want to work together again so there is also that synergy. We finished 5th in the league so we don’t have CL what better player were we supposed to have signed for 45m?

Granted he’s not a goal machine and might never be but he’s only 25 with plenty of room for improvement with more regular game time. Go look at Salah’s goal scoring stats at the age of 25 for comparison. Even if he doesn’t end up as a striker for us I’m sure he will be a massive asset as a wide forward.

 

[footyfan019]

Raphina will be replacing Pepe who is definitely on his way out. Also that will reduce dependency on Saka and thus makes a lot of sense. But Raphina deal is complicated due to Barca and Deco trying to set a deal up for Barca. Irrespective of that arsenal are looking into Hickey, Martinez for the full back cover.

 

[Berbaclass]

Is it Champions League or bust for Arteta this year with the business they're doing?

 

[Thunderhead]

Is it Champions League or bust for Arteta this year with the business they're doing?

I'd say so, think he deserved to do the full season last year but now he's splashing even more money he's got to show he's upto the job

 

[Berbaclass]

I'd say so, think he deserved to do the full season last year but now he's splashing even more money he's got to show he's upto the job

Yeah, If I was an Arsenal fan and he spent £300 million over two seasons and still didn't get in the champions league I would think it's time for somebody different.

 

[DWelbz19]

Raphinha - Jesus - Saka, lacks quality?

That’s a quality set of right wingers you’ll have there.

 

[Cassidy]

Yeah, If I was an Arsenal fan and he spent £300 million over two seasons and still didn't get in the champions league I would think it's time for somebody different.

Agree

 

[Berbaclass]

It's also not the amount of money. If they get Raphina, Jesus and Martinez (or even 2/3) then they will have spent the money on actual good players and he has zero excuses for me.

 

[Daydreamer]

If we get in Raphinha, Martinez and Tielemens, then Arteta will have the squad he asked for (22 outfield players / 3 keepers / MFs capable of playing in a 4-3-3). It will definitely be his team and he will likely have had a full pre-season with most of his new signings.

In that scenario I would expect progression in the following areas:

• Qualification for the CL either through league position or Europa Cup win
• Decent domestic cup runs (or an early exit to the likes of City or Liverpool at worst)
• No high score line defeats
• Creating more chances from open play
• Fewer unforced errors leading to goals
• Improved disciplinary record
• Better in-game management

If we were to narrowly miss out on the Champions League due to our rivals maxing out their potential and we improved in other areas - I could live with that.

But if Chelsea, Spurs and United continue to underwhelm and yet still finish above us, or if there is no discernible improvement to our all around play - then I think we should look for a new Manager.

 

[Devil_forever]

Yeah, If I was an Arsenal fan and he spent £300 million over two seasons and still didn't get in the champions league I would think it's time for somebody different.

He’s spent that on quality young players for the most part. He’s cut down their wage bill, gotten rid of overpaid older players. Will leave any replacement with a squad that’s only going to improve. None of the players seem like rotten apples either. Compare that to the squad Ole built. It’s night and day.

 

[Devil_forever]

If we get in Raphinha, Martinez and Tielemens, then Arteta will have the squad he asked for (22 outfield players / 3 keepers / MFs capable of playing in a 4-3-3). It will definitely be his team and he will likely have had a full pre-season with most of his new signings.

In that scenario I would expect progression in the following areas:

• Qualification for the CL either through league position or Europa Cup win
• Decent domestic cup runs (or an early exit to the likes of City or Liverpool at worst)
• No high score line defeats
• Creating more chances from open play
• Fewer unforced errors leading to goals
• Improved disciplinary record
• Better in-game management

If we were to narrowly miss out on the Champions League due to our rivals maxing out their potential and we improved in other areas - I could live with that.

But if Chelsea, Spurs and United continue to underwhelm and yet still finish above us, or if there is no discernible improvement to our all around play - then I think we should look for a new Manager.

Probably the best and most level headed post I’ve seen on what Arteta’s targets should be so far.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

If we get in Raphinha, Martinez and Tielemens, then Arteta will have the squad he asked for (22 outfield players / 3 keepers / MFs capable of playing in a 4-3-3). It will definitely be his team and he will likely have had a full pre-season with most of his new signings.

In that scenario I would expect progression in the following areas:

• Qualification for the CL either through league position or Europa Cup win
• Decent domestic cup runs (or an early exit to the likes of City or Liverpool at worst)
• No high score line defeats
• Creating more chances from open play
• Fewer unforced errors leading to goals
• Improved disciplinary record
• Better in-game management

If we were to narrowly miss out on the Champions League due to our rivals maxing out their potential and we improved in other areas - I could live with that.

But if Chelsea, Spurs and United continue to underwhelm and yet still finish above us, or if there is no discernible improvement to our all around play - then I think we should look for a new Manager.

Improvement must be expected from the owner and the fans after Edu and Arteta invested heavily in the team for another summer. Like u said top4 or not also depends on other team as well. All teams in top 6 are trying to improve their team as well every summer not just arsenal.

 

[Daydreamer]

Probably the best and most level headed post I’ve seen on what Arteta’s targets should be so far.

Cheers.

Although, to be fair, it is mostly just summing up what seems to be the majority opinion amongst Arsenal fans. There is broad support for Arteta at the stadium. We can see the improvements he's made and he's won a trophy. That's bought him some time - but it's not limitless.

Look through the thread and it's mainly Gooners who, while not happy to have finished fifth, also recognise that the world isn't ending and that our signings give some reason for optimism.

Meanwhile, several United fans confidently state that:

• Arsenal fans should demand the sacking of Arteta for brainwashing them into accepting lowered standards
• AND Arsenal have the most delusional fans in the league with expectations that have no basis in reality

They can't both be true. And for most fans, neither are. I just want my football club to make the best use of the resources our self-sustaining model allows. I like our players, I like the atmosphere at the ground since lockdown, I like our Manager / Technical Director and I like direction we're going in.

I have no idea if Arsenal will be successful this season, but I'm pretty sure the Arsenal fans in this thread seem to have a healthier relationship with the Club and football in general. That is in comparison to our own fans in recent years (there were fights at the stadium over the fate of Arsene Wenger). But also in comparison to some United fans seem weirdly invested in Arteta being exposed as a giant fraud and sacked. I'm genuinely fascinated by it, could anyone shed some light on the what's behind it?

 

[mu4c_20le]

But also in comparison to some United fans seem weirdly invested in Arteta being exposed as a giant fraud and sacked. I'm genuinely fascinated by it, could anyone shed some light on the what's behind it?

First of all, you need to understand that the handful of Arsenal fans on this site do not represent their fanbase at all. From what I've seen, many Arsenal fans feel exactly like what you just said. If you only ever hang around here, then I can see why you'd find it confusing, as if we have some kind of vendetta against him.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

He’s spent that on quality young players for the most part. He’s cut down their wage bill, gotten rid of overpaid older players. Will leave any replacement with a squad that’s only going to improve. None of the players seem like rotten apples either. Compare that to the squad Ole built. It’s night and day.

There is no guarantee of that - a lot of young players don't necessarily push on and improve, some stagnate and don't make that additional jump. Also not quite sure of the relevance of comparing it to Ole's squad, given this is an Arteta thread?

 

[Rooney in Paris]

• Arsenal fans should demand the sacking of Arteta for brainwashing them into accepting lowered standards

If anything, Utd fans want Arteta to remain in place. That's the surest way to not have another legitimate competitor in our own rebuild phase.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

If anything, Utd fans want Arteta to remain in place. That's the surest way to not have another legitimate competitor in our own rebuild phase.

I don't understand the obsession with Arteta. I care less who the manager is for Man Utd or PSG and how they do for their job. How well the team you support play on the field is what matters for your entertainment. I want to be entertained when I watch the game and hopefully no 0-0 draw.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I don't understand the obsession with Arteta. I care less who the manager is for Man Utd or PSG and how they do for their job. How well the team you support play on the field is what matters for your entertainment. I want to be entertained when I watch the game and hopefully no 0-0 draw.

What you care and don't care about is your own business. You care enough to be posting on an oppo's team message board, so you clearly do care chatting about football, and have been posting in other team's threads and players from other teams. It's perfectly reasonable for Utd fans to be interested (use the word obsession if you want, that's just you spinning things in your head as you see fit) in how Arsenal is being run, and in its manager.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Just don't rate him as a CF personally. No physical presence, not the most clinical. If it works out then it'll have been a good fee and I'll hold my hands up.

I agree with this, he's not the sort to be leading the team and firing them in, he's more of a supportive player, he's not what Arsenal need so I'm glad they've spunked a load of money on him.

 

[Daydreamer]

First of all, you need to understand that the handful of Arsenal fans on this site do not represent their fanbase at all. From what I've seen, many Arsenal fans feel exactly like what you just said. If you only ever hang around here, then I can see why you'd find it confusing, as if we have some kind of vendetta against him.

Fair enough.

I don't only hang around here, though. Unsurprisingly, I know quite a few Arsenal fans and subscribe a decent number of Arsenal channels. I go to games. I'm literally surrounded by tens of thousands of Arsenal fans on a regular basis. I think myself, the other Gooners in this thread and the supporters in the stadium aren't really the outliers of the fanbase. I would go as far as to say that we are the fanbase.

Maybe all the sensible Arsenal fans congregate exclusively on RedCafe, but I think that's unlikely.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Fair enough.

I don't only hang around here, though. Unsurprisingly, I know quite a few Arsenal fans and subscribe a decent number of Arsenal channels. I go to games. I'm literally surrounded by tens of thousands of Arsenal fans on a regular basis. I think myself, the other Gooners in this thread and the supporters in the stadium aren't really the outliers of the fanbase. I would go as far as to say that we are the fanbase.

Maybe all the sensible Arsenal fans congregate exclusively on RedCafe, but I think that's unlikely.

They are definitely more mature and grounded than most. And sometimes united fans get too caught up in the argument, and it becomes more about winning the argument. There's no hate for arteta here I can assure you. Whenever I notice Arsenal fans digging themselves in, I disengage and hope he stays for a few more years