Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

[Daydreamer]

They are definitely more mature and grounded than most. And sometimes united fans get too caught up in the argument, and it becomes more about winning the argument. There's no hate for arteta here I can assure you. Whenever I notice Arsenal fans digging themselves in, I disengage and hope he stays for a few more years

Indeed, it's all fun and games.

I'm definitely looking forward to the new season. Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Conte and ten Haag is formidable group of Managers to take on.

 

[CannonBalls]

Indeed, it's all fun and games.

I'm definitely looking forward to the new season. Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Conte and ten Haag is formidable group of Managers to take on.

Perhaps this is one good excuse for next year....

Honestly I would expect close to 74-75 pts in the league. If we still don't get UCL then fair enough

 

[ThierryHenry14]

One thing for sure is Arteta is not on the level of Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Conte. He is a rookie manager. He is doing fine at the moment and expectation from the board will be even more after he and Edu invested heavily in Arsenal standard this summer again. Arteta is the one need to prove to the board he is the right one for the job. The board just handed him a new contract so he has another season to prove himself. His man management skill has been quite poor however.

 

[Mastadon]

Cheers.

Although, to be fair, it is mostly just summing up what seems to be the majority opinion amongst Arsenal fans. There is broad support for Arteta at the stadium. We can see the improvements he's made and he's won a trophy. That's bought him some time - but it's not limitless.

Look through the thread and it's mainly Gooners who, while not happy to have finished fifth, also recognise that the world isn't ending and that our signings give some reason for optimism.

Meanwhile, several United fans confidently state that:

• Arsenal fans should demand the sacking of Arteta for brainwashing them into accepting lowered standards
• AND Arsenal have the most delusional fans in the league with expectations that have no basis in reality

They can't both be true. And for most fans, neither are. I just want my football club to use make the best use of the resources our self-sustaining model allows. I like our players, I like the atmosphere at the ground since lockdown, I like our Manager / Technical Director and I like direction we're going in.

I have no idea if Arsenal will be successful this season, but I'm pretty sure the Arsenal fans in this thread seem to have a healthier relationship with the Club and football in general. That is in comparison to our own fans in recent years (there were fights at the stadium over the fate of Arsene Wenger). But also in comparison to some United fans seem weirdly invested in Arteta being exposed as a giant fraud and sacked. I'm genuinely fascinated by it, could anyone shed some light on the what's behind it?

I can’t see any improvements he’s made that any half decent manager couldn’t. Quality of football has been generally awful apart from a few decent patches and it’s painful watching the labored and clueless brand of football he’s introduced. I still have no idea what his style of play is apart from trying to play out from the back. I’m willing to give him one more season to prove himself but if we continue to put in clueless performance and miss out on CL football after all these signings then he needs to go. I think not going for Conte was a big mistake but I would be happy to be proven wrong at the end of the season.

 

[Daydreamer]

I can’t see any improvements he’s made that any half decent manager couldn’t. Quality of football has been generally awful apart from a few decent patches and it’s painful watching the labored and clueless brand of football he’s introduced. I still have no idea what his style of play is apart from trying to play out from the back. I’m willing to give him one more season to prove himself but if we continue to put in clueless performance and miss out on CL football after all these signings then he needs to go. I think not going for Conte was a big mistake but I would be happy to be proven wrong at the end of the season.

It’s true, our quality of football has been far too reliant on players for which we had no adequate replacement. When Tierney, Tomiyasu and Partey were on the pitch, we looked like a proper team. The drop off between them and Tavares, Cedric and El Neny was stark. We’re also lucky that Odegaard stayed fit. Saka played literally every league game and was understandably knackered by the end.

Hopefully the effects of strengthening the squad outweigh the expansion in our playing schedule. Our work in the transfer market should make us less reliant on a small core of players.

Within the context of having to slash our wage bill, there have been definite improvements. We had ageing and complacent squad on ludicrous money. The likes of Sokratis, Mustafi and Kolasinac were regularly starting games for us. This is a younger, hungrier squad with a much higher upside on contracts the club can actually afford.

 

[Berbaclass]

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[Freak]

One thing for sure is Arteta is not on the level of Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Conte. He is a rookie manager. He is doing fine at the moment and expectation from the board will be even more after he and Edu invested heavily in Arsenal standard this summer again. Arteta is the one need to prove to the board he is the right one for the job. The board just handed him a new contract so he has another season to prove himself. His man management skill has been quite poor however.

His pointing and gesturing gimmicks from the touchline are top notch though.

 

[charlenefan]

He’s spent that on quality young players for the most part. He’s cut down their wage bill, gotten rid of overpaid older players. Will leave any replacement with a squad that’s only going to improve. None of the players seem like rotten apples either. Compare that to the squad Ole built. It’s night and day.

can you list these players Ole signed that are these rotten apples you speak of?

 

[romufc]

He’s spent that on quality young players for the most part. He’s cut down their wage bill, gotten rid of overpaid older players. Will leave any replacement with a squad that’s only going to improve. None of the players seem like rotten apples either. Compare that to the squad Ole built. It’s night and day.

So surely, if United have rotten apples and Arsenal quality players, then they should easily finish above United this season?

The squad Ole built in 2 years got 2nd and El final, 2 years later Arteta got 5th? Night and day, you are right.

 

[RacingClub]

As somebody who was a regularly reader of Redcafe for the entirety of the Ole reign I'm surprised that there are posters on here that are asking for evidence of the bad signings that he made, you must have read one of the million posts about to them in the past 6/8 months?

Also.. got Europa League Final.. after getting knocked out of the Champions League right? Embarrassingly so if I remember correctly? Wasn't that the one where RB Leipzig ripped the back 5 apart in the opening 3 minutes? And the one that they lost to a breakaway from their own corner in Istanbul? And then losing said Final? That's praiseworthy?

 

[Devil_forever]

can you list these players Ole signed that are these rotten apples you speak of?

Wait is that a serious question? Can you name the ones he signed that wasn’t one?

 

[charlenefan]

Wait is that a serious question? Can you name the ones he signed that wasn’t one?

I asked you first, don't deflect

 

[Bosws87]

Arsenal fans come across as more deluded then us (well the twitter ones), we finished below them rightly so last year we were awful it felt more like attitude then our players just not being very good.

When i watched them at the Emirates against us 3-1 they flattered to deceive, realistically i'd put Arsenal 7th/8th unless some major signings are brought in (Jesus isn't one)

I'd expect us on paper to walk all over them this year, but as in football who knows!

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enjoyed that one, can't only be me looking at the arsenal squad thinking

 

[Dancfc]

Arsenal fans come across as more deluded then us (well the twitter ones), we finished below them rightly so last year we were awful it felt more like attitude then our players just not being very good.

When i watched them at the Emirates against us 3-1 they flattered to deceive, realistically i'd put Arsenal 7th/8th unless some major signings are brought in (Jesus isn't one)

I'd expect us on paper to walk all over them this year, but as in football who knows!

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enjoyed that one, can't only be me looking at the arsenal squad thinking

The hilarious thing is those same players will be thrown under the bus to protect Arteta once results go south.

Also how fitting that user has Kaa as his profile picture given Arteta has a similar ability in convincing people to trust him despite all the evidence on the contrary.

 

[charlenefan]

Re Raphinha Don't tell me Arsenal fans counted their chickens before they hatched? They've never done that before

 

[charlenefan]

Arsenal fans come across as more deluded then us (well the twitter ones)

All Arsenal fans are Ty, there's just various degrees how far their delusion goes

Show me a level headed reasonable sane Arsenal fan and I bet they're actually a closet Spurs fan just in disguise

 

[Conor]

Saw something today saying if Arsenal get their targets this summer Arteta will have spent 320 million in the last 2 years

 

[Dancfc]

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This can't be true surely?

 

[tinfish]

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This can't be true surely?

No it's not. We are just being trolled

 

[awop]

Willian + Ramsey on a free, the PL won't see it coming

 

[The Corinthian]

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This can't be true surely?

Have to post this hall of famer tweet for this:

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[amolbhatia50k]

Have to post this hall of famer tweet for this:

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[Berbaclass]

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[Mastadon]

Have to post this hall of famer tweet for this:

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Willian was an awful signing but I have to give him huge credit for agreeing to terminate the massive contract we had given him rather than sit around doing nothing and being paid. Very rare to see that in football these days.

 

[Flexdegea]

Willian was an awful signing but I have to give him huge credit for agreeing to terminate the massive contract we had given him rather than sit around doing nothing and being paid. Very rare to see that in football these days.

The sort of stuff Arteta gets credit for

 

[roonster09]

The sort of stuff Arteta gets credit for

If I'm not wrong, he is giving credit for Willian, not Arteta.

 

[Mastadon]

The sort of stuff Arteta gets credit for

Why on earth would Arteta get credit for that?

 

[mu4c_20le]

Why on earth would Arteta get credit for that?

To be fair, because of nutters like ballague following him around and describing him like a modern day Jesus, it's easy to assume that rubs off on the fans a bit

 

[Maluco]

One thing about this Arsenal revolution is that they are spending a lot of money, like, a massive amount of money, but they aren’t bringing in anyone guaranteed to be absolutely top quality.

Obviously the young players could grow into that (Saka almost definitely will), and Odegaard is a great signing, but, for me, the jury is still out on Ramsdale, White, Vieira, Lokonga, even Jesus (who I still think is an upgrade) etc…

Very little proven quality for the amount of money they are spending. It’s a massive risk.

 

[awop]

One thing about this Arsenal revolution is that they are spending a lot of money, like, a massive amount of money, but they aren’t bringing in anyone guaranteed to be absolutely top quality.

Obviously the young players could grow into that (Saka almost definitely will), and Odegaard is a great signing, but, for me, the jury is still out on Ramsdale, White, Vieira, Lokonga, even Jesus (who I still think is an upgrade) etc…

Very little proven quality for the amount of money they are spending. It’s a massive risk.

Everything is a risk. You spent big money on very proven quality and they made you worse. If these don't work out they can be shipped out because they're young and not on comical wages.
White and Ramsdale had a good start to the season before our defence started to suffer without Partey and Tierney. Vieira is a gamble at 35M: young, looks a bit fragile, and not supposed to be starting. Lokonga was so cheap, whatever he becomes will be fine. And Jesus should be fine for 45M, every other striker were quoted between 60 and 100M. At least we know what we're buying here.

 

[Mastadon]

To be fair, because of nutters like ballague following him around and describing him like a modern day Jesus, it's easy to assume that rubs off on the fans a bit

I don’t know why any Arsenal fan would trust Ballbag over what they can see with their own eyes. Never mind the results which would ordinarily get an Arsenal manager sacked the quality of football has been mediocre at best and utterly awful at its worst. Arteta has it all to prove.

 

[ilrm]

but they aren’t bringing in anyone guaranteed to be absolutely top quality.

There are no guarantees on transfers ... just look at Eden Hazard, Coutinho, etc. Even if Arteta was fired, the new manager would be left with a very 'moldable' squad. Its no different to what United are doing now - Timber/Malacia/Antony are no guarantees.

 

[Maluco]

There are no guarantees on transfers ... just look at Eden Hazard, Coutinho, etc. Even if Arteta was fired, the new manager would be left with a very 'moldable' squad. Its no different to what United are doing now - Timber/Malacia/Antony are no guarantees.

I will put it another way. If you look at their first eleven, including the players they are linked to, is it any better than a Leicester or West Ham, really? Probably slightly, which is great.

But spending the money they are to get there is the problem. If they really do break the 250 million barrier, surely you have to qualify for top 4? Is their team a top 4 team? I don’t think it is.

United have quality players, the problem was they had a poor coach. A lot of these players, like Varane, Bruno, Sancho, and even Fred will prove themselves in a proper system with organized direction.

I just don’t think Arsenal have the winners or proven quality in their squad. 6th is fine, but if you spend almost £300 million to have the 6th-7th best squad in the league, something is wrong.

 

[horsechoker]

There are no guarantees on transfers ... just look at Eden Hazard, Coutinho, etc. Even if Arteta was fired, the new manager would be left with a very 'moldable' squad. Its no different to what United are doing now - Timber/Malacia/Antony are no guarantees.

 

[Daydreamer]

I will put it another way. If you look at their first eleven, including the players they are linked to, is it any better than a Leicester or West Ham, really? Probably slightly, which is great.

But spending the money they are to get there is the problem. If they really do break the 250 million barrier, surely you have to qualify for top 4? Is their team a top 4 team? I don’t think it is.

United have quality players, the problem was they had a poor coach. A lot of these players, like Varane, Bruno, Sancho, and even Fred will prove themselves in a proper system with organized direction.

I just don’t think Arsenal have the winners or proven quality in their squad. 6th is fine, but if you spend almost £300 million to have the 6th-7th best squad in the league, something is wrong.

This is a fair point. Though, I would say looking at the first eleven can be deceiving. United 20/21 transfer window is once again an interesting case study:

Ronaldo
Varane
Sancho

The team that finished second place the season prior look to have levelled up significantly. The talent of all three of those players is not in doubt, but they actually took the team backwards.

On the other hand:

Henderson
Fabinho
Wijnaldum

Were the linchpins of a midfield that literally one it all. It is not difficult to think of superior midfield trios, but they perfectly suited Klopp’s tactics.

 

[Womp]

I quite like the transfer business they are doing under him TBF.

 

[GoonerBear]

I will put it another way. If you look at their first eleven, including the players they are linked to, is it any better than a Leicester or West Ham, really? Probably slightly, which is great.

But spending the money they are to get there is the problem. If they really do break the 250 million barrier, surely you have to qualify for top 4? Is their team a top 4 team? I don’t think it is.

United have quality players, the problem was they had a poor coach. A lot of these players, like Varane, Bruno, Sancho, and even Fred will prove themselves in a proper system with organized direction.

I just don’t think Arsenal have the winners or proven quality in their squad. 6th is fine, but if you spend almost £300 million to have the 6th-7th best squad in the league, something is wrong.

I think the problem is people are looking at Arsenal spending £300M in isolation, but if the teams above you are spending £300M, or just under it, and are strengthing from a higher base level, then its still difficult to catch up and overhaul.

Look at Chelsea, finished 3rd. They are on course for another £200M+ spend this summer, their 2nd in 3 years. Richarlison & Sterling will be £100M+, Ake will be £40M+, another defender say De Ligt could be £60m or more, and they probably still need strengthening at full back and even a midfielder.

Spurs spent similar to Arsenal if you count the 2 loan players that will be purchased, and have drew down an extra £150M for this summers spend and have been very active already.

The top 6 is very competitive, and now you can add Newcastle in the mix as well. They could spend £200M every season and still find a bit of a glass ceiling unless they find the consistency needed to overhaul Tuchel's & Conte's teams, never mind compete with Peps & Klopps teams.

 

[ilrm]

Is their team a top 4 team? I don’t think it is.

The PL is the most competitive league in the world. Realistically you have Liverpool & City who have hit the jackpot with the managers they hired and are 2 out of the top-4. The remaining 2 spots are fought between Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, United and usually 1 dark horse (West Ham, Everton (old), Leicester). That's 5 teams for 2 spots. Just the level of competition means that missing out on a top-4 requires more context than net spend. With a little bit of luck Arsenal would have replaced Spurs last season.

United have quality players, the problem was they had a poor coach.

I disagree ... United do have quality but its no better than who they're up against for the remaining 2 spots. Each of the 4 above mentioned teams are within the range of each other. Each of them are capable of coming 3rd to 6th.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I think the problem is people are looking at Arsenal spending £300M in isolation, but if the teams above you are spending £300M, or just under it, and are strengthing from a higher base level, then its still difficult to catch up and overhaul. Look at Chelsea, finished 3rd. They are on course for another £200M+ spend this summer, their 2nd in 3 years. Richarlison & Sterling will be £100M+, Ake will be £40M+, another defender say De Ligt could be £60m or more, and they probably still need strengthening at full back and even a midfielder.

Chelsea seems like a bad example to me since they're not strengthening from a higher base level. They're needing to replace players who are leaving or who've flopped badly. The club hasn't been doing a good job.

 

[TheGame]