Here you go, in no particular order:
1-Pep
2-Klopp
3-Roger Schmidt
4-Lucien Favre
5-Ancelotti
6- Diego Simeone
7- Van Gaal
8-Pellegrini
9-Rodgers
10-Conte
Mourinho at Chelsea
- Thread starter Brightonian
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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1-Pep
2-Klopp
3-Roger Schmidt
4-Lucien Favre
5-Ancelotti
6- Diego Simeone
7- Van Gaal
8-Pellegrini
9-Rodgers
10-Conte
Its not about numbers for me rather than the level of deliberacy/premeditation/organisation on it.
As @Gina11 said - the cheating is very systematic in a lot of Mourinho's teams. Without a doubt several teams (including United, who were one of the first to do it) have pressurised refs in the past - but as I said in my previous post, its always seemed to be a case of just saying
"Put some pressure on the ref and with any luck he will give us a decision at some point."
OK, its still wrong, but that is nowhere near as bad as what Mourinho/Chelsea are doing, which takes the level of organisation and premeditation to different level - literally their entire team (plus staff) are all on the same page, knowing exactly what they are doing, as soon as Ibrahimovic's tackle comes in. Oscar plays the victim, rolling around in agony. Every single player except the GK charges over to the ref, some of them call for the stretcher, Mourinho and his bench are up in arms screaming from the touchline...
As I said, its a whole new level to what other teams have done, for me.
Inter was playing for nothing and it made no difference whether they lost 1-0 or 10-0. It would be different if it was a knockout tie. For one, I don't think Jeremy Aliadierre would have scored and more importantly Arsenal would not have won by such a margin.
But given your lack of success in Europe you can cling on to that special night in San Siro for all you want.
Last night, on here, a few people were anticipating his post-match interview, thinking he was going to go mad at being knocked out.
He's too smart for that though. While he secretly would have expected to go further (though probably not winning it), he's still close to a double this season. He'll play it off as one of those things and next season he'll add more quality and probably gear the players up for a serious European challenge.
I wouldn't be surprised if he played down expectations in this competition behind the scenes actually, knowing that they weren't quite ready.
He's good at that - getting his players ready for a specific 'moment.' I think he only really gets tetchy when he truly believes he's got 'the team' and 'the plan' and that his team should be winning the competition. Next season he'll have assembled what he thinks is 'the team' and his reaction to going out probably wont be the same.
He's too smart for that though. While he secretly would have expected to go further (though probably not winning it), he's still close to a double this season. He'll play it off as one of those things and next season he'll add more quality and probably gear the players up for a serious European challenge.
I wouldn't be surprised if he played down expectations in this competition behind the scenes actually, knowing that they weren't quite ready.
He's good at that - getting his players ready for a specific 'moment.' I think he only really gets tetchy when he truly believes he's got 'the team' and 'the plan' and that his team should be winning the competition. Next season he'll have assembled what he thinks is 'the team' and his reaction to going out probably wont be the same.
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By his standards he was pretty calm. There are times when he loses he goes out of his way to create outrageous conspiracy theories and insult the other team/club/players/officials. Still couldn't help but take a small dig at PSG.
"They were aggressive, what we used to call 'clever' on the continent. In England, that is not accepted as clever.
"They did what they did, after the second goal there was no more game. Simulation of injuries, they stopped the game completely.
"It is the beauty of English football but in continental football the other teams are more prepared to cope with the mental side. I wouldn't say 'dirty', but the other side."
They were eliminated because he chose to step back in his own stadium against a 10 man team without their best player and goal scorer. He just signed la liga's top scorer and CL finalist cf, Cesc Fábregas, Cuadrado, Filipe Luis and has Hazard, Courtois and other great players in his squad. He is top of bpl with possibly 8 points over the second. He lost because of his own incompetence, because he shit himself like he usually does. It had nothing to do with being ready.
Haha amen
Van Gaal seems not to be boding well with the Prem so far and also he's a bit old so it's temporary solution.
Roger Schmidt must be a joke on that list? He has not achieved anything worth of note, and Leverkusen this season have won 10 out of 24 games. Even Hecking should be a better choice.
Favre hasn't won anything as well and I can't see what he's doing on that list as well.
Pellegrini has a so so record I don't think he'd fit very well at United as well.
Rodgers has had 1 good season.
Conte has the credentials but lacks competition in Seria A and hasn't achieved much in CL.
From that list and what you have missed IMO is Blanc - did pretty good with Bordeaux and PSG.
Mourinho is still one of the best managers around. Losing to PSG doesn't change that.
He's still one of the top 3 managers right now along with Simeone and Pep.
Eh??
I never said that's why they were eliminated from this round. I said that's why he wasn't as animated as usual. His expectations probably weren't to win the thing, even if they were to progress past this round. He'd be more animated.
As for the players they signed - yes, but Chelsea are starting to look knackered now. Whether it's with a few star additions or added squad depth, the squad will be tailored more to his liking next season. Even their league campaign hasn't been that impressive in my opinion.
He manages expectations well though. Next season you'll see a completely different reaction to going out, because he'll probably have geed the players up and convinced them they'll win it.
That was the reaction of a guy who's thinking "Don't worry. Next year's our year."
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The fact of the matter is that Mourinho has been consistently winning more trophies than most of those managers. He's won the treble, he's won league trophies in several countries. Pep is a better manager, and maybe Simeone. As for the others, they really haven't proven to be at a higher level than Mourinho, whether you like him or not.
He wasn't complaining. He was actually complementing them. He said Chelsea should have done it.
@Speak Oh, my apologies if I misunderstood you. I think he has one of the best squads in the planet, just like he had at madrid. He should have gone for the kill instead of leaving PSG alive, which ultimately cost him.
Earlier in the season people were talking about this Chelsea side going unbeaten in the league and how they had one of the best GKs in the world, one of the best defences in the world, the best DM in the world, the best no. 10 in the world, one of the best wingers in the world etc etc
Now apparently they don't have enough quality
"No football after the second goal", "simulation of injuries".
Those are compliments for Chelsea fans.
Don't get me wrong - they should have gone through last night. It was against 10 men after all. But like I said, they've looked knackered for a while, which I thought was visible last night, and Mourinho was overly cautious.
Was more just a post about why Mourinho didn't have the reaction some expected, and how he manages expectations in general.
lol
People jumped the gun. That's quite clear now. They aren't actually the beastly team they maybe appeared months ago.Earlier in the season people were talking about this Chelsea side going unbeaten in the league and how they had one of the best GKs in the world, one of the best defences in the world, the best DM in the world, the best no. 10 in the world, one of the best wingers in the world etc etc
Now apparently they don't have enough quality
Do they have the quality to win the league and Champions League double? I guess so, but they look like they'd really really stumble over the line. They look knackered. Matic could do with a better/more reliable replacement (better than Mikel), and he's burnt out. Fabregas' replacement isn't there either. The drop off is pretty significant in a number positions.
Their bench isn't all that when you look at it, and he doesn't seem to have proper faith in a few of the back-up players he signed.
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Yes and he is correct. He wasn't complaining Though. he was saying they did well to kill the game by doing these things and that Chelsea didn't manage to do it.
The thing is he's not in a position to take the high road as his team has also tried similar tactics by sorounding the referee and lost despite the man advantage. It was a dig at PSG the way i see it or a backhanded compliment at best.
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It really is nuts.Still can't believe Ibrahimovic got sent off for this.
If anyone deserved to walk it was Oscar, the cheating little pussy.
Have to say, I'm surprised by how calmly ibrahimovich took it. The guy can be a complete nutter and is a kick boxer who enjoys kicking his team mates.
What the hell are you on about? He isn't taking the High road. He literally was praising them for their tactics. He is a fan of those tactics.
A few thoughts for all the fans who thought we should've got Mourinho instead of LvG. I think some of the arguments which are currently being used against LvG can be applied also to Mourinho.
The transfer expendages; Mourinho took over a team that had just finished 3rd the year before and got them to third again, although accumalating 7 Points more in his first year, having spent 106 million Pounds. This year he is leading Chelsea to the top of the table, having spent another 112 million pounds, they stand currently five points ahead of City.
Style of play; I don't have to mention his style of play as I think we're all familiar with it, and it hardly resembles the United way as described by fans on here and elsewhere. Mourinho is far more anti than van Gaal probably has ever been or will ever be. It sometimes garner results and sometimes it backfires as we saw yesterday. But this is his way, his tactics are employed and realised while LvG still has much to apply and is in a much earlier stage in his developing-process.
I also feel like Mourinhos squad is reaching its ceiling as they're running out of areas within his squad which can be significantly improved upon, while we still have much room for improvement in all areas of our squad.
The transfer expendages; Mourinho took over a team that had just finished 3rd the year before and got them to third again, although accumalating 7 Points more in his first year, having spent 106 million Pounds. This year he is leading Chelsea to the top of the table, having spent another 112 million pounds, they stand currently five points ahead of City.
Style of play; I don't have to mention his style of play as I think we're all familiar with it, and it hardly resembles the United way as described by fans on here and elsewhere. Mourinho is far more anti than van Gaal probably has ever been or will ever be. It sometimes garner results and sometimes it backfires as we saw yesterday. But this is his way, his tactics are employed and realised while LvG still has much to apply and is in a much earlier stage in his developing-process.
I also feel like Mourinhos squad is reaching its ceiling as they're running out of areas within his squad which can be significantly improved upon, while we still have much room for improvement in all areas of our squad.
'Simulation of injuries'?
Absolutely.
It's literally the most common tactic for time wasting.
PSG wasted a stupid amount of time last night but they did it very well and every team would have done the same. Mourinho acknowledged that. He wasn't bitter at all last night, we were outclassed and outfought.
Ok, i don't know what to say then lol. Fair enough i guess.
You were serious.
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Who was? You'll find it was almost only the media, who always hype teams up (so the headlines are bigger when they lose) and some United fans who seem to take pleasure in how much better other teams are than United.Earlier in the season people were talking about this Chelsea side going unbeaten in the league and how they had one of the best GKs in the world, one of the best defences in the world, the best DM in the world, the best no. 10 in the world, one of the best wingers in the world etc etc
Now apparently they don't have enough quality
Our team is good but not great. We have an average defensive unit and our midfield is good but not strong enough yet. We do have a good set of strikers right now though. Its basically the reversal of last season, and I actually think a lot of the time we were better last season.
We lost 3-0 to Werder Bremen in the pre season and I sent a word of warning then. Theres something weak about our team that I cant quite put my finger on.
More pace in their backline would improve them a great deal. It is difficult for them to impose themselves on a lot of games as they have to sit back and defend deep as well as have plenty of protection in front of their back four due to them not being the quickest (Terry in particular). Having quicker defenders would improve them in a lot of ways and would give a lot more freedom to their players in midfield and attack as they would not have to work as hard defensively because the defenders would not be so vulnerable if they are exposed in one on ones against pacey attackers. Also, when your backline is pushed up it makes it easier to control games and to keep the ball and move it around in dangerous areas and quicker defenders will mean they will not be so susceptible to counter attacks if they play this way even if their defenders are high up the pitch. Ramos and Pepe allowed Madrid to play this way under Mourinho and they were much more attack minded than his Chelsea are and they did not concede control of the game as many times as Chelsea do.
He's managed teams with unlimited funds and I'd argue he's provided shit quality football.
great post. Thats exactly my opinion.
Chelsea´s CBs just dont fit a high line and Mou had to make a weird compromise between playing them deeper and controlling matches.
A couple of notes on Roger Schmidt and Lucien Favre.
These are innovative coaches in the Bundesliga, a league that is coming leaps and bounds in European football. I would not be surprised to see Buli outrank the Premier League in the UEFA rankings. And they are doing with a lot less money, but with better methods, training and know-how. I think besides Bayern and Borussia other teams such as Bayer Leverkusen, Wolsburg can go further in Europe and Schalke will be set if they keep their youngsters. Whereas England will probably have no representatives in Europe next round.
Roger Schmidt and Lucien Favre do not have the c.v. of Mourinho, but their teams play quick, dynamic, attacking football. Favre especially has been credited with the development of Marco Reus into a world class player which is one more than Mourinho has managed in all his career. Won the Swiss championship with an average age of 21. Brought up a bunch of kids like Inler, Xhemaili etc into the national team fold. With the proper backing one of them could become another Klopp…
I also don’t understand what makes Mourinho a top 3-manager in Europe right now. He’s getting bitch-slapped in Europe year after year after year… Blanc, Simeone, Klopp, Heynckes, Pep have recently gotten the better of him. It’s five years since that Inter win, which was fortuitous in the extreme. And since that CL win, he’s managed Madrid and Chelsea, two teams with huge budgets and underachieved. So what’s with the hype?
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This shouldnt be in here as hes only been with us 1.5 seasons and this one we could possibly win a double, which isnt underachieving.
There was a total of around 15 minutes whereby it benefited PSG to waste time.
I'm going to call you out on that, because you're literally spewing Mourinho's horseshit from last night.
PSG was behind in the tie from kickoff until the 114th minute. So they were in a position to waste time for 6 minutes out of 120. How the feck did they waste a stupid amount of time, can you elaborate on that?
The League Cup is part of a double now? Just like Liverpool won a "treble" in 2001. If you win the league, fair fecks to ya, but getting knocked out so early in Europe and out of the FA has to be disappointing.
I really wasn't but since reading a few more comments, it turned out I could have been dead seriousOk, i don't know what to say then lol. Fair enough i guess.
You were serious.
. Praising those tactics, what a fecking joke.Bottled it last night quite simply. Better team went through.
It's not THE double, but it still is a double.
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