Muffled cries of “I told you so” from behind a green and gold scarf / blame it on the glazers part V

[Siorac]

Woodward gets criticism but is always offest with "but he is good at the commercial side"...with barely anyone stopping to think that maybe there is a link between what Woodward is good at, and what the club's owners want him to be good at...or more tellingly, whether neglecting the team in favour of commercial success is actually a viable or smart plan in the long run.

You are even doing it in your post "but that's what football is these days"...except it isn't. Teams build commercial success on the back of being succesful on the pitch. Liverpool, City, Chelsea, etc. We are the only team focusing on commercial success at the expense of on the pitch success. Woodward by his own admission would rather spend money on a player he can market than a player the manager thinks the team needs. If this was a concern to the Glazers, he would have been sacked by now.

I would dare say there is no fan who would rather cheer a spnsorship deal than winning a football game, but even if there were, our ignorance of the way one eventually links to the other should be a big concern to them. We are unique as a club in possessing this ignorance. It's a far bigger and more fundamental problem than who Pogba chooses to high five, or why Mourinho didn't make an subs iin our last game.

You can certainly accuse Mourinho of being out to prove a point, being childish, negative, etc. You can accuse our players of being idiots, having the wrong attitude etc...but at the end of the day, their success is directly related to our results and how we perform as a team. Whatever their motive and how lost it might be, the goal is to be succesful as a player, manager, team. When you get to Woodward and above, where other clubs still place priority on this, with us it is very clearly of secondary importance.

No, I agree that focusing on commercial success at the expense of on pitch success is a terrible idea. To be more precise, what our owners are doing is trying to find the minimum level of on the pitch success that still enables the club to be commercially successful. Exactly the same thing that Arsenal have been, probably not without reason, accused for years now. It is not ignorance, it is a business strategy of maximising return from investment. It looks like their threshold is CL qualification; get that and you are fine, fail that and you are out. I think it's a terrible way to approach football and has no place in it, and it might even be a terrible business strategy in the long term... but.

My point is that we are far from unique in this. I mentioned Arsenal, as the most similar. And you cite Liverpool but I remember how we all laughed at their Moneyball nonsense. And even now, all their big spending is invariably on the back of big sales, too. I think it's unlikely they would splash an extra 100 million to take their team from 3rd to 1st if 3rd was guaranteed - because from a financial perspective it simply doesn't make sense.

Which is why the only way I can see us changing this attitude is with a different model of ownership. If the owners are primarily in it to make money then this is what we're going to get, always, exactly because the owners and fans will have a very different attitude as to what constitutes success on the pitch. And you say that one is built on the other and to an extent it is true but did it really hurt Real Madrid's standing and marketability when they failed to pass the last 16 of the CL seven years in a row? Not really.

The likes of City and PSG are political and commercial PR exercises for Middle Eastern countries. That's one option. We could have the Bundesliga model. Or the Spanish model where a president is elected by members who have other concerns than just making money. Those are indeed all existing models within football so you are right, as commercialised the sport has become and as focused as it is on profit, these considerations still have a place. But then we would need an entirely different type of owner, in all likelihood.

And having said all that, the level of investment in the team is still very high. Yes, Woodward might be dreaming of becoming the next Florentino Perez and signing the Zidanes and Ronaldos of this age but in our actual transfer dealings we still did not hesitate to spend an awful amount of money on the completely unmarketable Lukaku or the distinctly unglamorous Matic and Fred. Even with Woodward's failings, even with our questionable focus the level of investment should be enough to see us compete. We just wasted a lot of money which does not make sense from any aspect of running the club, really.

 

[Jamie Shawcross]

No you have this thread to talk about it we don’t need another. If I wanted to shut it down I’d shut this one too.

No need to cry your eyes out because your precious thread got shut.

Im laughing mate, at you crying your eyes out closing threads because they don't fall in line with your way of thinking. Ban me oh holy one

 

[Jamie Shawcross]

They didn't delete comments, they closed your idiotic Disneyfied thread as its even dumber than this one. The mods who started promoting people like you are the problem

The biggest problem on this forum are fans who don't contribute anything other than criticism of the content of the posts, elitist, stuck up moaners. Instead of looking for something to moan at, try contributing to the discussion OR you know, scrolling past and not saying anything. The amount of comments I see of people just berating the OP, or jumping on people who dare to question the intentions of the owners makes me sick as a red

 

[Jamie Shawcross]

I can see the anti-Glazer agenda merchants are back, and they'll be lurking in the shadows every time we go through a bad patch to randomly bring them up again.

If you think Glazers are the problem with this club, you need your eyes checking.

The irony of this. If you truly don't see the way the owners 'run' this club as the biggest factor in our downfall, you are truly too far gone.

 

[GBBQ]

Don't break it to me, break it to Woodward

"Playing performance doesn't really have a meaningful impact on what we can do on the commercial side of the business."

All that says is that the United brand is so big that it will still remain an attractive proposition even if we have a few bad seasons. Similar to how Liverpool retained a huge global fanbase after their baron spell from the 90s onwards. Clubs like United, Liverpool, Bayern, Madrid, Juventus etc. have a historical context that help them survive trophyless runs or relegations and will always be lucrative. Nouveau Riche clubs might not maintain the same loyalty if someone pulls the plug on the money.

It does not mean that the Glazers are actively running the club into the ground because they don't care about the sport side of things. They know they will be an ever better advertising proposition as champions of England, Europe or the world.

And don't pretend like marketing the United brand is something only the Glazers did because I have enough United branded tat from the 90s to ensure you that this would have been the plan regardless of the owners.

 

[Posh Red]

The irony of this. If you truly don't see the way the owners 'run' this club as the biggest factor in our downfall, you are truly too far gone.

How is spending more than almost any other club in world football over the last few years the biggest factor in our downfall?

 

[Snowjoe]

Im laughing mate, at you crying your eyes out closing threads because they don't fall in line with your way of thinking. Ban me oh holy one

The only one throwing a hissy fit here is you. Grow up.

As mentioned before that’s not why your thread was closed

 

[Jamie Shawcross]

The only one throwing a hissy fit here is you. Grow up.

I never said you were throwing a hissy fit. Your words. If you are, theres really no need, I am calm Just annoys me how fans who dare to suggest the dire running of our club from the top just MIGHT be contributing to the crap state we are in. For me its blatantly obvious, so many with their heads in the sand using how much they have spent as a counter argument. They run the club like s**t and its the glazer and woodward apologists that will allow it to get worse, whilst always targeting whatever manager we have at the time, easy target.

 

[Jamie Shawcross]

How is spending more than almost any other club in world football over the last few years the biggest factor in our downfall?

Because there is no clear vision. I don't care if they spend another 300 billion, if its spent badly (as it has been in recent years) we are knackered. I am not saying they DONT SPEND MONEY, I am saying they quite clearly run the club terribly and as they prioritise profit over all else, this affects everything right down to the type of marquee players we sign. Every decision they make is profit orientated. I am not having it that jose himself signed all these players, he has said himself his hands are tied in the market. I think he might just be telling us they aren't his signings (some of them). Woodward signs the players, mourinho is "just the coach" that has to get them to play. We need clear vision, we need footballing minds to make decisions, not corporate geniuses. Profit and on field success can go hand in hand, but not whilst Woodward is in charge. I am just repeating what many have already said. Van Gaal warned us about it, but we didn't listen. Mourinho is telling us now but we give it "hes making excuses". Its literally right in front of our faces, yet we still shoot the messenger.

 

[roonster09]

I never said you were throwing a hissy fit. Your words. If you are, theres really no need, I am calm Just annoys me how fans who dare to suggest the dire running of our club from the top just MIGHT be contributing to the crap state we are in. For me its blatantly obvious, so many with their heads in the sand using how much they have spent as a counter argument. They run the club like s**t and its the glazer and woodward apologists that will allow it to get worse, whilst always targeting whatever manager we have at the time, easy target.

Do we play shit football because of manager and how we train or because of how Woodward and co runs the club?

I don't understand how our gutless performance have anything to do with Woodward who don't train the players.

 

[Jamie Shawcross]

Do we play shit football because of manager and how we train or because of how Woodward and co runs the club?

I don't understand how our gutless performance have anything to do with Woodward who don't train the players.

I think a lot of that is down to Mourinho yeah, but only because the guys depressed. His dream job is turning into a nightmare, because it isn't what he thought it was going to be. He has no control at the club, something Fergie swore by as his most important weapon in being succesful. Jose is just a coach. Bet he can't wait to get out then we can get the next one in to take the fall for our inept ownership and hierarchy

 

[roonster09]

I think a lot of that is down to Mourinho yeah, but only because the guys depressed. His dream job is turning into a nightmare, because it isn't what he thought it was going to be. He has no control at the club, something Fergie swore by as his most important weapon in being succesful. Jose is just a coach. Bet he can't wait to get out then we can get the next one in to take the fall for our inept ownership and hierarchy

Well if Jose is depressed at ManUtd for not having any control then he will be depressed at every single club. There isn't a club where manager gets so much say in transfers and so many other things. At all big clubs, manager is just a head coach, one more position ahead of coaches who is in charge of first team.

Jose is depressed because he is Jose. He was like this at Madrid, at Chelsea and he is like this at ManUtd.

When our players can't string 2 passes together and out played by fecking Derby County at OT, it's hard to blame Woodward and how the club is run. Our players look clueless on the pitch and don't even make basic runs. How can anyone blame owners or Woodward for that?

Also it's not like every manager/coach out there gets every player they wanted. No one gets that, it's near impossible because there are so many clubs who are loaded. Just look at Chelsea, he wanted Higuain, Rugani and ended up with no one. Didn't stop him from coaching his players and it's obvious to everyone that team plays in Sarri's vision.

There are too many examples to give, you can't keep on blaming owners and Woodward when after 2.5 years our players looks lost in the game and looks tactically clueless.

 

[golden_blunder]

The biggest problem on this forum are fans who don't contribute anything other than criticism of the content of the posts, elitist, stuck up moaners. Instead of looking for something to moan at, try contributing to the discussion OR you know, scrolling past and not saying anything. The amount of comments I see of people just berating the OP, or jumping on people who dare to question the intentions of the owners makes me sick as a red

You’re welcome to post elsewhere, it’s not as if there isn’t plenty of choice.

 

[fellaini's barber]

The biggest problem on this forum are fans who don't contribute anything other than criticism of the content of the posts, elitist, stuck up moaners. Instead of looking for something to moan at, try contributing to the discussion OR you know, scrolling past and not saying anything. The amount of comments I see of people just berating the OP, or jumping on people who dare to question the intentions of the owners makes me sick as a red

Yep, you and @CA1 are the only true reds left, because you're so far up the arse of a man failing at his job you'll soon blame aliens for his ineptness

 

[CA1]

Yep, you and @CA1 are the only true reds left, because you're so far up the arse of a man failing at his job you'll soon blame aliens for his ineptness

Do you think the next manager will win the league at United? Genuine question.

 

[Amir]

Because there is no clear vision. I don't care if they spend another 300 billion, if its spent badly (as it has been in recent years) we are knackered. I am not saying they DONT SPEND MONEY, I am saying they quite clearly run the club terribly and as they prioritise profit over all else, this affects everything right down to the type of marquee players we sign. Every decision they make is profit orientated. I am not having it that jose himself signed all these players, he has said himself his hands are tied in the market. I think he might just be telling us they aren't his signings (some of them). Woodward signs the players, mourinho is "just the coach" that has to get them to play. We need clear vision, we need footballing minds to make decisions, not corporate geniuses. Profit and on field success can go hand in hand, but not whilst Woodward is in charge. I am just repeating what many have already said. Van Gaal warned us about it, but we didn't listen. Mourinho is telling us now but we give it "hes making excuses". Its literally right in front of our faces, yet we still shoot the messenger.

When you're looking at the players we've seen in the last 2.5 years, only two could be classed as the sort of star signings a profit-chasing-club would make, and I doubt anyone forced Pogba or Sanchez on Mourinho.

I think it's more a case of being vetoed on signings last summer that he's upset about.

 

[Posh Red]

Because there is no clear vision. I don't care if they spend another 300 billion, if its spent badly (as it has been in recent years) we are knackered. I am not saying they DONT SPEND MONEY, I am saying they quite clearly run the club terribly and as they prioritise profit over all else, this affects everything right down to the type of marquee players we sign. Every decision they make is profit orientated. I am not having it that jose himself signed all these players, he has said himself his hands are tied in the market. I think he might just be telling us they aren't his signings (some of them). Woodward signs the players, mourinho is "just the coach" that has to get them to play. We need clear vision, we need footballing minds to make decisions, not corporate geniuses. Profit and on field success can go hand in hand, but not whilst Woodward is in charge. I am just repeating what many have already said. Van Gaal warned us about it, but we didn't listen. Mourinho is telling us now but we give it "hes making excuses". Its literally right in front of our faces, yet we still shoot the messenger.

So just to be clear, you are saying that you don't have a problem with the amount of money we are spending, but that the manager is not getting the players he wants. Other than missing out on a centre back this summer, can you tell me when the board has made a signing that Mourinho didn't want, and provide evidence that proves this?

You speak of footballing minds - isn't that Mourinho's department? Liverpool were a laughing stock for years because of their alleged 'transfer committee'. Funny how they now have a competent manager, and are now making shrewd signings and building a team. Must be down to those amazing sports minds within the fenway sports group (the same ones that blew the transfer budget on Henderson, Downing and Carroll).

 

[glazed]

People always point to the amount the Glazers have spent as evidence that they are good owners. That misses the point. They only spent the money when they had to, once decline had set in. And in the meantime how much money have they sucked up that could have been invested?

But the worst part is the absentee landlord element. The man in charge has no football knowledge. The recruitment and dismissal policy has been driven by financial pressures, not by on the field ones. There's a feeling - accurate in my opinion - that the Glazers don't care what happens as long as the money rolls in.

 

[MikeKing]

But the worst part is the absentee landlord element. The man in charge has no football knowledge. The recruitment and dismissal policy has been driven by financial pressures, not by on the field ones. There's a feeling - accurate in my opinion - that the Glazers don't care what happens as long as the money rolls in.

Football success is hard to come by, its no guarantees. Owners has inevitably had a discussion on "If there was a way to make a football club a successful business without having to rely on sustained success on the pitch." This is why Woodward was brought in.

 

[MackRobinson]

I think a lot of that is down to Mourinho yeah, but only because the guys depressed. His dream job is turning into a nightmare, because it isn't what he thought it was going to be. He has no control at the club, something Fergie swore by as his most important weapon in being succesful. Jose is just a coach. Bet he can't wait to get out then we can get the next one in to take the fall for our inept ownership and hierarchy

What a load of rubbish and pathetic attempt to deflect blame. Jose Mourinho has no control because he wasn't allowed to buy his 3rd CB in consecutive years without unloading any other (unless you count Blind)? This paragraph doesn't pass the laugh test.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

But yet he rarely spent it under the Glazers. What would be the benefit to the club or Fergie if he spoke out about the Glazers?

Do you really think that SAF is the type that would bow down and bite his tongue if something was happening that he didn't like? I certainly don't. SAF spent money wisely. He didn't just throw millions at the top stars. For the most part (there are acceptions) he would buy young players and they would develop into stars at United. But the big difference is, he showed trust in these young players and gave them the belief that they are United players. I firmly believe that if SAF was still in charge then Zaha wouldn't just be a United player right now, he would be a star. He would probably have been picked by England as well and playing for them on the right instead of playing for the Ivory Coast

 

[Tarrou]

What was the original thread title?

 

[Tarrou]

I hate the Glazers but I'm struggling to think of a better solution. Whoever takes over is gonna either be your run-of-the-mill capitalist pig-dog and keep using us as a cash-cow, or come from oil money.

 

[el3mel]

Woodward gets criticism but is always offest with "but he is good at the commercial side"...with barely anyone stopping to think that maybe there is a link between what Woodward is good at, and what the club's owners want him to be good at...or more tellingly, whether neglecting the team in favour of commercial success is actually a viable or smart plan in the long run.

You are even doing it in your post "but that's what football is these days"...except it isn't. Teams build commercial success on the back of being succesful on the pitch. Liverpool, City, Chelsea, etc. We are the only team focusing on commercial success at the expense of on the pitch success. Woodward by his own admission would rather spend money on a player he can market than a player the manager thinks the team needs. If this was a concern to the Glazers, he would have been sacked by now.

I would dare say there is no fan who would rather cheer a spnsorship deal than winning a football game, but even if there were, our ignorance of the way one eventually links to the other should be a big concern to them. We are unique as a club in possessing this ignorance. It's a far bigger and more fundamental problem than who Pogba chooses to high five, or why Mourinho didn't make an subs iin our last game.

You can certainly accuse Mourinho of being out to prove a point, being childish, negative, etc. You can accuse our players of being idiots, having the wrong attitude etc...but at the end of the day, their success is directly related to our results and how we perform as a team. Whatever their motive and how lost it might be, the goal is to be succesful as a player, manager, team. When you get to Woodward and above, where other clubs still place priority on this, with us it is very clearly of secondary importance.

Best post I have read here for a while. Again you prove to me why I consider you one of my favorite posters here, even if we disagree previously on one or two points.

 

[CA1]

FSG are good owners at Liverpool. They've invested in the club, the stadium and the team. They've developed a stand and Anfield is a vibrant place again after looking tired when they arrived. They've really tried to improve football operations with the scouting and the football structure improved no end.

They also have a track record. Boston Red Sox are one of the best Baseball teams and have just reached the World Series again.

Tampa Bay in the NFL are absolutely crap and also rans year on year.

And you can see why.

 

[Kapardin]

Well I think he would to be honest. The vision, the relentless money, the improving facilities, the mood around the club, the PR around the club. I think he would win it comfortably.

Mourinho hasn't managed well his season hence those defeats you mention but it was going to happen before a ball was kicked this season (look back on my posts on the Woodward thread) I said it was all over and that the players would down on him and that Mourinho himself isn't the type of character to fight out of this situation placed on him. So this year was always a disaster after him not being backed in the summer (not just financial backing)

He wouldn't. The point you are missing is that whenever he has been given money on transfers, he has spent poorly. And his tactics haven't been good either.

Pep was not able to win the league only because of his spending. He got Bravo and Nolito wrong, but City owners being generous allowed him to replace them. The key reasons for Pro's dominance are - 1) The core of players signed by Mancini + de Bruyne is world class, 2) He signed some very good FBs, B Silva and Sane, 3) Importantly, his tactics work in this league because the players are intelligent enough to understand and execute it.

In the case of Mourinho, let us assume Mansour is our owner. Mourinho' s already signed 9 players. Out of those, the only unqualified success is Pogba, and even he gets stick. Dalot looks promising. So basically, 2/9 players appear to be the real deal. This is unlike Pep, who got his signings spot on except for Bravo, Nolito and maybe Mahrez. So, even if our owner sanctions the purchase of another 5 players for Mourinho, what guarantee is there that they will do well?

Look at his rumored targets -- Willian, Perisic -- both of whom may give a year's worth max before they go the Matic way. Toby -- ditto, injury case as well. Maguire-- not good enough clearly. Sandro - could be the only success. Is there any guarantee he will win the league with these?

And that's before I come to his tactics. No longer can the league be won by simply nicking wins and relying on a solid defense. That approach gets you 80-85 points if it goes well, but City and Chelsea before them have set the bar higher -- 85-100 points wins you the title.

Last season, we achieved second primarily because Chelsea had a meltdown, Liverpool's squad was thin to focus on both league and CL and they dropped a lot of points before VvD's signing and Arsenal were in crisis under Wenger. Chelsea were close to overtaking us before Conte's fortuitous meltdown in January. Plus, half the league was battling relegation, teams like Everton who generally do well were shite. Have you considered that before you claim 2nd was all due to Jose's genius tactics?

Look at the situation now when the Top 5 are no longer in crisis or in flux and fairly settled, and where we are. This is Mourinho's true level now.

So, the manager is as much a part of the problem as the Glazers are. He has proven inept in both the transfer market and tactically, though he had a point when he took a dig at the owners by claiming Juve got where they are by spending. Get in a better manager first and then we can discuss about the failings of the Glazers.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Do you think the next manager will win the league at United? Genuine question.

If he knows what he's doing, buys players he know how to use, has an actual game plan thats not hoofing to Lukaku or Fellaini, of course he'd give it a good go, like Emery, Klopp and Sarri seem to be managing to do being at their respective clubs for a few months or spending less than Jose as opposed to to being 10th by October

 

[Kapardin]

If he knows what he's doing, buys players he know how to use, has an actual game plan thats not hoofing to Lukaku or Fellaini, of course he'd give it a good go, like Emery, Klopp and Sarri seem to be managing to do being at their respective clubs for a few months or spending less than Jose as opposed to to being 10th by October

I'm still not sure why the camp is split between Pro-Jose/Anti-Glazer and vice-versa. Quite possible to admit both are at fault.

And those who solely blame Ed and the Glazers while absolving Jose simply turn a blind eye to Emery smashing every myth of Jose by doing well under worse owners, having taken over a club in a toxic environment post-Wenger, and a shoe-string transfer budget with a squad nearly as bad as ours.

 

[CA1]

If he knows what he's doing, buys players he know how to use, has an actual game plan thats not hoofing to Lukaku or Fellaini, of course he'd give it a good go, like Emery, Klopp and Sarri seem to be managing to do being at their respective clubs for a few months or spending less than Jose as opposed to to being 10th by October

Two manager's who are 2 months in

Mourinho had more points at this stage last season.

 

[CA1]

I'm still not sure why the camp is split between Pro-Jose/Anti-Glazer and vice-versa. Quite possible to admit both are at fault.

And those who solely blame Ed and the Glazers while absolving Jose simply turn a blind eye to Emery smashing every myth of Jose by doing well under worse owners, having taken over a club in a toxic environment post-Wenger, and a shoe-string transfer budget with a squad nearly as bad as ours.

Emery hasn't won against a decent side yet ffs. He's done nothing. Everytime I watch them they look pretty shaky, Wenger didn't do much different in some of his seasons. The expectation there is at an all time low. Lets see how he gets on when the new manager bounce has gone.

 

[Kapardin]

Emery hasn't won against a decent side yet ffs. He's done nothing. Everytime I watch them they look pretty shaky, Wenger didn't do much different in some of his seasons. The expectation there is at an all time low. Lets see how he gets on when the new manager bounce has gone.

Of course they are shaky. Their defense is as bad as ours. He is overachieving with atleast a recognizable style of play, which was the point I was making.

 

[el3mel]

I'm still not sure why the camp is split between Pro-Jose/Anti-Glazer and vice-versa. Quite possible to admit both are at fault.

And those who solely blame Ed and the Glazers while absolving Jose simply turn a blind eye to Emery smashing every myth of Jose by doing well under worse owners, having taken over a club in a toxic environment post-Wenger, and a shoe-string transfer budget with a squad nearly as bad as ours.

Wenger used to make these kind of winning runs every year. Their season was usually ruined in Feb but they almost always started and ended the season on fire under him, and that kept him in position year in year out. Only last season it didn't work out.

But your first sentence is right. The blame is mixed between Mourinho, players and Ed. All share parts of the blame and you can't absolve any of them. We need drastic changes on every level. I don't think anyone absolve Mourinho of the blame, the only difference is some think by removing him we'll become world beaters, while some recognize we have other problems around that will cripple the next manager as well.

 

[Jamie Shawcross]

You’re welcome to post elsewhere, it’s not as if there isn’t plenty of choice.

I know I am. Thanks for that

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Citing FSG as 'good owners' in comparison to the Glazers is just hilarious given their stint with Dalglish, Rodgers, and Klopp first two years. Take a look at RAWK during those years.

Just a thought, maybe the fortune of a football team has more to do with how they are coached rather than how often the owners attend matches. As for the state of our stadium or training facility, Barca, a fan owned club, isn't all that arsed about upgrading their crumbling massive stadium either, doesn't stop them from winning silverwares.

In an ideal world, the club would be fan owned, with adept business people running the commercial side, great football people running the football side, no money would go out in dividends, no signing would flop and we would win the PL 10 times on the trot. The world is not, however, ideal. And given a choice between the Glazers or the Mike Ashley or Stan Kroenke of the world, I know what is the lesser evil I'd go for.

If you want a sugar daddy like Mansour or Abramovich, that's fine too. But then don't bleat on about traditional values either because then the club instead of being a cash cow for greedy Yanks will be a PR exercise for criminals.

 

[Kapardin]

Wenger used to make these kind of winning runs every year. Their season was usually ruined in Feb but they almost always started and ended the season on fire under him, and that kept him in position year in year out. Only last season it didn't work out.

But your first sentence is right. The blame is mixed between Mourinho, players and Ed. All share parts of the blame and you can't absolve any of them. We need drastic changes on every level. I don't think anyone absolve Mourinho of the blame, the only difference is some think by removing him we'll become world beaters, while some recognize we have other problems around that will cripple the next manager as well.

The OP does think Mourinho is the best we can do with though.

The solution is simple, we hire a manager who has a progressive style of football, who is proven to an extent and who can work around transfer budget limitations as they can get the best out of their players without moaning incessantly and trying to hide their own faults. The likes of Sarri, Jardim and Favre would do well even under the Glazers. Of course, 2 of them are ungettable.

 

[Posh Red]

Citing FSG as 'good owners' in comparison to the Glazers is just hilarious given their stint with Dalglish, Rodgers, and Klopp first two years. Take a look at RAWK during those years.

Just a thought, maybe the fortune of a football team has more to do with how they are coached rather than how often the owners attend matches. As for the state of our stadium or training facility, Barca, a fan owned club, isn't all that arsed about upgrading their crumbling massive stadium either, doesn't stop them from winning silverwares.

In an ideal world, the club would be fan owned, with adept business people running the commercial side, great football people running the football side, no money would go out in dividends, no signing would flop and we would win the PL 10 times on the trot. The world is not, however, ideal. And given a choice between the Glazers or the Mike Ashley or Stan Kroenke of the world, I know what is the lesser evil I'd go for.

If you want a sugar daddy like Mansour or Abramovich, that's fine too. But then don't bleat on about traditional values either because then the club instead of being a cash cow for greedy Yanks will be a PR exercise for criminals.

Basically what I was trying to say.

 

[CA1]

Of course they are shaky. Their defense is as bad as ours. He is overachieving with atleast a recognizable style of play, which was the point I was making.

If Emery wins the Europa League in his first season and comes second next season, his name will be shouted from the rooftops and backed.

Our board cut off the funding and cut the legs off the manager for doing that.

 

[Jamie Shawcross]

Run by a man who only cares about money, shares and sponsorship deals. FACT. "I assure you we can compete at the highest end of the transfer market", never "We want to win everything and get back to the top". Woodward is only interested in appeasing shareholders, and that share price. He could not give two s**ts about the fans, the football, whether we win a trophy or not. I don't see how there are people still considering woodward and the board to be blameless when it comes to how we have come to be so terrible. It is too easy to turn on Mourinho, but theres a pattern emerging with our managers. Moyes wasn't backed and totally flopped, Van Gaal was backed but flopped, and left criticising the way the club is run, Mourinho has been backed, then not backed and is criticising the way the club is run, yet so many fans are STILL missing what is obvious. The club is run like a circus. Our club has been hijacked and its a disgrace. Glazer and woodward apologists are the most damaging thing to the future of this club now imo

 

[Billy Blaggs]

FSG are good owners at Liverpool. They've invested in the club, the stadium and the team. They've developed a stand and Anfield is a vibrant place again after looking tired when they arrived. They've really tried to improve football operations with the scouting and the football structure improved no end.

They also have a track record. Boston Red Sox are one of the best Baseball teams and have just reached the World Series again.

Tampa Bay in the NFL are absolutely crap and also rans year on year.

And you can see why.

They oversaw the only time the Buccaneers won the Superbowl.
They ousted fan favorite Tony Dungy to bring in John Gruden who then won the Superbowl I mentioned above. In fact the Glaziers have overseen the Buccaneers during their best times as an NFL franchise.

 

[CA1]

The OP does think Mourinho is the best we can do with though.

The solution is simple, we hire a manager who has a progressive style of football, who is proven to an extent and who can work around transfer budget limitations as they can get the best out of their players without moaning incessantly and trying to hide their own faults. The likes of Sarri, Jardim and Favre would do well even under the Glazers. Of course, 2 of them are ungettable.

Total flavour of the month managers. None of them have done anything to suggest they would do well here. I'm not saying they definitley won't but it's the frustration that people think a change of coach is the answer. Mourinho and Van Gaal are two of the best managers of the last 25 years, that is a fact. Mourinho has an absolutely unbelievable record. Why you honestly feel Jardim would come in and do well here is just odd. The pressure is much higher, he would really struggle in my opinion.