Muffled cries of “I told you so” from behind a green and gold scarf / blame it on the glazers part V

CA1

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Citing FSG as 'good owners' in comparison to the Glazers is just hilarious given their stint with Dalglish, Rodgers, and Klopp first two years. Take a look at RAWK during those years.

Just a thought, maybe the fortune of a football team has more to do with how they are coached rather than how often the owners attend matches. As for the state of our stadium or training facility, Barca, a fan owned club, isn't all that arsed about upgrading their crumbling massive stadium either, doesn't stop them from winning silverwares.

In an ideal world, the club would be fan owned, with adept business people running the commercial side, great football people running the football side, no money would go out in dividends, no signing would flop and we would win the PL 10 times on the trot. The world is not, however, ideal. And given a choice between the Glazers or the Mike Ashley or Stan Kroenke of the world, I know what is the lesser evil I'd go for.

If you want a sugar daddy like Mansour or Abramovich, that's fine too. But then don't bleat on about traditional values either because then the club instead of being a cash cow for greedy Yanks will be a PR exercise for criminals.
Barcelona are being run poorly at the moment, the fans aren't that happy because they can see regression. If they had had our last 6 years the ground would be empty demanding change.

FSG have implemented a football structure. They've got top scouting systems, there are people in place to assist the coach, they're backing him on signings. They've expanded and improved the stadium. The training ground is next I believe. Liverpool are well on the way up and would be even if Klopp left tomorrow.
 

CA1

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They oversaw the only time the Buccaneers won the Superbowl.
They ousted fan favorite Tony Dungy to bring in John Gruden who then won the Superbowl I mentioned above. In fact the Glaziers have overseen the Buccaneers during their best times as an NFL franchise.
That was 16 years ago wasn't it?

They're an absolute nothing team now.
 

CA1

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Do you know anything about the NFL?
Not a huge amount.

All I heard recently was they'd not reached the play-offs for 10 years and that they spend very little money.

Which sounds shit to be honest

FSG run the Boston Red Sox ffs. One of the most iconic sporting teams anywhere in the world.
 

CA1

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Line on the Glazers in Tampa Bay

"
There is no longer 145,000 eager fans on the Bucs' season ticket waiting list like there was in 2007. Since Gruden's departure, the club have had four managers in 10 years with no tangible long-term strategy.

Is it ringing alarm bells yet, United fans?

"

Ooops
 

Billy Blaggs

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Not a huge amount.

All I heard recently was they'd not reached the play-offs for 10 years and that they spend very little money.

Which sounds shit to be honest

FSG run the Boston Red Sox ffs. One of the most iconic sporting teams anywhere in the world.
Comparing the Red Sox with the Bucs is like comparing Barcelona with a midtable Rugby Team
There is no comparison. The Bucs have always been notoriously bad.
 

fellaini's barber

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I'm still not sure why the camp is split between Pro-Jose/Anti-Glazer and vice-versa. Quite possible to admit both are at fault.

And those who solely blame Ed and the Glazers while absolving Jose simply turn a blind eye to Emery smashing every myth of Jose by doing well under worse owners, having taken over a club in a toxic environment post-Wenger, and a shoe-string transfer budget with a squad nearly as bad as ours.
I blame the Glazers for a lot of things, like overpaying for players, not being ruthless enough with shite players etc. If there's one thing I don't like them for is giving our managers too much freedom. We let LVG buy a teamful of dross, did the same with Jose till Woody grew some balls this summer. Looking as clueless on the pitch as we are under Jose isn't down to them, Derby play better than us. Glazers don't coach these players, the manager does.

Two manager's who are 2 months in :lol:

Mourinho had more points at this stage last season.
And was out of the race by Christmas or so, for some reason I just don't see City being 17 points ahead of Pool, Chelsea or Arsenal this season at any point. Playing better football too. They were actually some of us who realised we were trash early last season when we where trashing the likes of Everton 4-0 but people called us paranoid because we were winning. I called it after that game that we were wank and would get beaten by any decent team and was getting pelters. Believe it or not where we finish or winning trophies isn't why most people have turned on Jose. There's a reason Pool are not thinking of sacking Klopp as at last season despite not winning shit, progress, good football, improvement etc. We are doing the exact opposite under Jose despite outspending them, regressing, crap football then combine that to the idiot shit talking our players and the club at every opportunity. What will he your excuse if Spurs, Pool, Arsenal, Chelsea finish above us this season? Please I'd like to hear it.
 

CA1

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Comparing the Red Sox with the Bucs is like comparing Barcelona with a midtable Rugby Team
There is no comparison. The Bucs have always been notoriously bad.
Exactly.

FSG have a track record and experience of a top level sports club. And now look at Liverpool and what is being built there.

And then look at us since Fergie left.
 

Kapardin

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If Emery wins the Europa League in his first season and comes second next season, his name will be shouted from the rooftops and backed.

Our board cut off the funding and cut the legs off the manager for doing that.
Erm, look at the opposition we faced in our EL campaign. It was the easiest EL in years, though credit to Jose as he could only beat what's in front of him. Even then we were a Guidetti goal away from elimination, and thankfully he slipped.

The 2nd position has a lot of extraneous factors which I pointed out.

Total flavour of the month managers. None of them have done anything to suggest they would do well here. I'm not saying they definitley won't but it's the frustration that people think a change of coach is the answer. Mourinho and Van Gaal are two of the best managers of the last 25 years, that is a fact. Mourinho has an absolutely unbelievable record. Why you honestly feel Jardim would come in and do well here is just odd. The pressure is much higher, he would really struggle in my opinion.
I take it that you haven't followed Jardim, Sarri and Favre's careers to suggest that. Well, explains why you idolize Jose and his outdated tactics.
 

CA1

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I blame the Glazers for a lot of things, like overpaying for players, not being ruthless enough with shite players etc. If there's one thing I don't like them for is giving our managers too much freedom. We let LVG buy a teamful of dross, did the same with Jose till Woody grew some balls this summer. Looking as clueless on the pitch as we are under Jose isn't down to them, Derby play better than us. Glazers don't coach these players, the manager does.



And was out of the race by Christmas or so, for some reason I just don't see City being 17 points ahead of Pool, Chelsea or Arsenal this season at any point. Playing better football too. They were actually some of us who realised we were trash early last season when we where trashing the likes of Everton 4-0 but people called us paranoid because we were winning. I called it after that game that we were wank and would get beaten by any decent team and was getting pelters. Believe it or not where we finish or winning trophies isn't why most people have turned on Jose. There's a reason Pool are not thinking of sacking Klopp as at last season despite not winning shit, progress, good football, improvement etc. We are doing the exact opposite under Jose despite outspending them, regressing, crap football then combine that to the idiot shit talking our players and the club at every opportunity. What will he your excuse if Spurs, Pool, Arsenal, Chelsea finish above us this season? Please I'd like to hear it.

I guarentee you that City will be 17 points or more ahead of some of them teams. If they go at last seasons rate, it would actually be more. I'd wager that Arsenal and Chelsea won't beat our points talley of last season. Liverpool might.

And I said before a ball was kicked we were going to be awful and finish 6th. Look back. I knew that since the board didn't back the manager to improve the squad and gave the players ammo it was going to go tits up because Mourinho's style needs everyone behind him. Mourinho is poor in this situation I agree, he's not a firefighter by any stretch. He can't hold back his emotions and just try and stem the tide, his ego won't allow it. So I'll tell you right now we'll finish below Spurs, Pool, Arsenal etc. Our players are pretty average and needed to play backs to the wall last season to get the points we did. Now the players know the manager is on thin ice, that attitude is finished.

I was on here the night the transfer window ended and with all Woodward's leak declaring our season was already over. People are starting to catch up...
 

Kapardin

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I blame the Glazers for a lot of things, like overpaying for players, not being ruthless enough with shite players etc. If there's one thing I don't like them for is giving our managers too much freedom. We let LVG buy a teamful of dross, did the same with Jose till Woody grew some balls this summer. Looking as clueless on the pitch as we are under Jose isn't down to them, Derby play better than us. Glazers don't coach these players, the manager does.
Spot on. I am Anti-Glazer for reasons other than what the OP suggests. The main reasons why Glazers are wank owners are because they have not put in a proper structure at the club, blindly back manager's in the transfer market by allowing them to sign dross and sell good players just because they are unable to work with them-- like how LvG bought the Fantastic Four and sold AdM, and how Jose bought Sanchez and tried to sell Martial. Also, they take too long to sack underperforming managers. LvG outstayed his welcome by 6 months and Jose should have been sacked prior to the international break.

Finally, I also agree with what Jose said -- unlike Juve or City who keep buying, the Glazers won't sanction spending if they think the squad is up to scratch. But it's a case of glass houses and stones -- while Jose's observation was correct, he is the wrong man to be given any money to in the first place, as only 3/9 signings of his are guaranteed starters, and 2 of them (Lukaku and Matic) are wank anyway.
 

Billy Blaggs

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Exactly.

FSG have a track record and experience of a top level sports club. And now look at Liverpool and what is being built there.

And then look at us since Fergie left.
I wasn't agreeing with you.

Owners are financial backers and the Glazers have done that. They don't run the team.

BTW I was against them taking over FWIW.
 

el3mel

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The OP does think Mourinho is the best we can do with though.

The solution is simple, we hire a manager who has a progressive style of football, who is proven to an extent and who can work around transfer budget limitations as they can get the best out of their players without moaning incessantly and trying to hide their own faults. The likes of Sarri, Jardim and Favre would do well even under the Glazers. Of course, 2 of them are ungettable.
They will play pretty good football and secure top 4 as I believe our team is currently playing far lower than what it can do ( which I believe what we can do is what we did last season ). The problem is sooner or later we'll want to win the league, and tbh, I don't see it happening under the current ownership and Ed.

We should be finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th which is the fault on the manager for us to be 11th this season and 7 points away from it, but at the same time, the fault of us failing to challenge for the league every year will be on Ed and ownership. we have spent but imo for the shape of the team Moyes left us in, we have spent the bare minimum to keep us a relevant top 4 team, not a title winning one. There were loads of old players retiring and loads of deadwood needed chopping when LVG got the job from Moyes, and the quality of the squad Moyes left was seen in the first few games under LVG, 2 points out of 9 from Swansea, Sunderland and Burnely. What were people expecting ? Of course we spent but it's enough to win the league ? Don't think so.

So in short Mourinho is in fault for us being 11th and 7 points away from 5th as we should be finishing from 2nd to 4th, but in the long run the fault of us failing consistently to challenge for the top trophies lies in Ed and Glazers.

So the next manager will improve our football massively and will give us top 4 but I can't see us winning the league any time soon which is the main problem imo.
 

CA1

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I wasn't agreeing with you.

Owners are financial backers and the Glazers have done that. They don't run the team.

BTW I was against them taking over FWIW.
I know you weren't agreeing with me.

Your point just walked into mine.

The Glazers have no consistent track record of owning a Sports team and having them consistently doing well on its pitch. Whereas FSG do.
 

JPRouve

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Not a huge amount.

All I heard recently was they'd not reached the play-offs for 10 years and that they spend very little money.

Which sounds shit to be honest

FSG run the Boston Red Sox ffs. One of the most iconic sporting teams anywhere in the world.
If you don't know American sports don't talk about them. Comparing the MLB and the NFL, the cities and markets of Boston and Tampa Bay is ridiculous. The structure of the NFL means that you can't purchase the best players, they don't hit free agency and they are not traded, you need to pick high in a good draft year, unfortunately for the Bucs they have mainly been too good to draft high enough, often enough.
At the same time, their direct opponents have one of the best QB in the NFL history and the other two landed franchises QBs by being really bad.
 

CA1

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So the next manager will improve our football massively and will give us top 4 but I can't see us winning the league any time soon which is the main problem imo.
I don't think the first bit is that easy to achieve. He'd need a lot better players.

Top 4 definitley could happen, if that's what people want then yeah a new manager wouldn't be a disasterous change.

Winning the league though or competing at the top end of Europe? Not a prayer under the Glazers/Woodward.
 

CA1

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If you don't know American sports don't talk about them. Comparing the MLB and the NFL, the cities and markets of Boston and Tampa Bay is ridiculous. The structure of the NFL means that you can't purchase the best players, they don't hit free agency and they are not traded, you need to pick high in a good draft year, unfortunately for the Bucs they have mainly been too good to draft high enough, often enough.
At the same time, their direct opponents have one of the best QB in the NFL history and the other two landed franchises QBs by being really bad.
Well why do you talk about football or discuss United's history then?

What do you know about that?
 

Billy Blaggs

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I know you weren't agreeing with me.

Your point just walked into mine.

The Glazers have no consistent track record of owning a Sports team and having them consistently doing well on its pitch. Whereas FSG do.
Sorry but that argument falls flat. What you mean is we haven't gotten it right since Sir Alex retired.

Glazer acquired ownership of United in a £790m takeover by gradually buying out United shareholders between 2003 and 2005.

Domestic
League
Cups
European
Worldwide
 

Cloud7

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Exactly.

FSG have a track record and experience of a top level sports club. And now look at Liverpool and what is being built there.

And then look at us since Fergie left.
If you admire them so much I think they’re still accepting applications for new fans over there.

The level of delusion and deflecting blame from the manager you love being displayed in this thread would be perfect for that fan base.
 

MDFC Manager

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Sorry but that argument falls flat. What you mean is we haven't gotten it right since Sir Alex retired.
Nah.

Fergie succeeded inspire of the Glazers

Moyesy and LvG failed because of the Glazers and/or their own incompetence

Mourinho was destined for success, but Glazers ensured he doesn't, because they want to save some money which Mourinho wanted to spend on Perisic and Alderweireld.

:wenger:
 

CA1

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If you admire them so much I think they’re still accepting applications for new fans over there.

The level of delusion and deflecting blame from the manager you love being displayed in this thread would be perfect for that fan base.
So me praising Liverpool's owners means I should support them?

That is beyond odd.
 

Cloud7

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So me praising Liverpool's owners means I should support them?

That is beyond odd.
The only person you ever praise around United is Mourinho. You’ve spoken more positively about FSG than you ever have about any of our players. It’s pretty clear you aren’t having a good time being a United fan. You very recently said you wish that hazard destroys Shaw when we play chelsea. That is beyond odd.

An FSG Mourinho combo would be like a dream to you.
 

fellaini's barber

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I guarentee you that City will be 17 points or more ahead of some of them teams. If they go at last seasons rate, it would actually be more. I'd wager that Arsenal and Chelsea won't beat our points talley of last season. Liverpool might.

And I said before a ball was kicked we were going to be awful and finish 6th. Look back. I knew that since the board didn't back the manager to improve the squad and gave the players ammo it was going to go tits up because Mourinho's style needs everyone behind him. Mourinho is poor in this situation I agree, he's not a firefighter by any stretch. He can't hold back his emotions and just try and stem the tide, his ego won't allow it. So I'll tell you right now we'll finish below Spurs, Pool, Arsenal etc. Our players are pretty average and needed to play backs to the wall last season to get the points we did. Now the players know the manager is on thin ice, that attitude is finished.

I was on here the night the transfer window ended and with all Woodward's leak declaring our season was already over. People are starting to catch up...
Well if we finish below (a) Spurs despite Jose outspending Poch every single season since he came here and them not getting a single player this summer(b) Arsenal despite going through post Wenger transition, new manager, a board fans were protesting a year ago, we buying their best player etc(c) Pool despite outspending them till this summer, Klopp inheriting a car crash of a keeper and defenders, selling their best player to Barca, having to make do with players like Wijnaldum, Henderson, Milner,etc (d) Chelsea despite Jose leaving them in 15th and having a disastrous second season under Conte, new manager who signed like only two players this summer, we finishing above them last season... If Jose finishes below all these clubs and his fecking excuse is that he didn't get a CB this summer then he'll be a massive failure and go down as one of the worst managerial appointments in our history.
 

CA1

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The only person you ever praise around United is Mourinho. You’ve spoken more positively about FSG than you ever have about any of our players. It’s pretty clear you aren’t having a good time being a United fan. You very recently said you wish that hazard destroys Shaw when we play chelsea. That is beyond odd.

An FSG Mourinho combo would be like a dream to you.
Not even true this to be honest.

I do like Mourinho because his track record is excellent. I don't think he's an amazing guy or anything. I think he's done fairly well first 2 years. I just don't think any coach would come in and do it in these circumstances.

FSG are good non sugar Daddy owners like I said but they're not above and beyond. The Glazers just happen to be awful.

It's a myth that this is about defending Mourinho, it turns into that because people just think the coach should be changed so it stems from that.

If we had good owners, good footballing structure and good players then I would back any coaching change as the solution. I would think any decent coach would come in a do well with the resources we have and the hypothetcal structure I described. Jardim, Sarri, whoever. I've never once said these guys are shit coaches. I've said the coach is very small percentage of the clubs problem.
 

JPRouve

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Fair enough.

There were some who backed them. Nobody admits it now obviously.
It's totally understandable why some backed them at the time, something that people like you forget to mention is that the former PLC was made of worse people with far less interest for sport, far less commercial acumen and far more willingness to tighten the purse. My worry only concerned the way they would structure the debt and if they had a solid plan to finance it, which they did.

The funny thing is that these people who have been in open war with SAF, sold their shares at the first opportunity because they were in it for easy money but you still have fans that acts as if they cared about the club.
 

CA1

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Well if we finish below (a) Spurs despite Jose outspending Poch every single season since he came here and them not getting a single player this summer(b) Arsenal despite going through post Wenger transition, new manager, a board fans were protesting a year ago, we buying their best player etc(c) Pool despite outspending them till this summer, Klopp inheriting a car crash of a keeper and defenders, selling their best player to Barca, having to make do with players like Wijnaldum, Henderson, Milner,etc (d) Chelsea despite Jose leaving them in 15th and having a disastrous second season under Conte, new manager who signed like only two players this summer, we finishing above them last season... If Jose finishes below all these clubs and his fecking excuse is that he didn't get a CB this summer then he'll be a massive failure and go down as one of the worst managerial appointments in our history.
Statistically Mourinho is actually one of the best.

Barring Busby and Ferguson, it'd be between Big Ron and Jose for the best after that in post war times.. A lot of people liked Tommy Doc though.