[Suedesi]

I am not saying that. However, Pogba is an attacking midfielder and he needs to be adequately backed. Scholes became the best midfielder of his generation but people seem to forget that had Keane or Carrick at his back with Giggs & Ronaldo/Beckham at his side.

But don't worry, if we sell him there will be takers. Good luck finding takers for the 'loyal servants' though. Hopefully China can step up again.

Look Pogba is not a player that needs to be dealt with this summer, there's approx. 22 other players that need to be shipped out this summer before him. However if Raiola/Real make noises in the summer and Paul starts sulking and thinks he deserves better pay or a better club he can feck off. His talent is unquestionable, his mentality and application certainly is.

That's it.

 

[Kostur]

Somebody tell him that Mourinho is long gone so he can stop downing his tools.

I laughed so badly at this terrible attempt at half-line Ter Stegen chip. At times it feels like he's impersonating Stevie Me show, the late Gerrard though, one that's taking shit shots from all possible angles, statpads with penalties and makes it all about himself.

 

[GM K]

Reading this thread, I think we can safely conclude that Jose was not Pogba's problem. Poor Mourinho was blamed everyday for Pogba's inconsistency and constant rumours about his departure. At least Ole is a cooler, more patient, wiser chap who bleeds red and wants to attack all the time. Yet the Pogba issues persist. But I am certain someone will still weave in the Mourinho excuse somehow.

 

[kouroux]

If we sell him, I don't think I'll be disappointed and I really like the player. I think he's broken me

 

[Loublaze]

It's clear that being the penalty taker would pad his stats - he's scored 8 fecking penalties (7 in the league) so his numbers are grossly inflated if you want to normalize contributions and compare like for like. And he's missed 3 penalties out 10 in the league (70% conversion is pretty lame), so in any other team he would have not been taking penalties in the first place. Kane is 4/4 at Spurs in the league for example, 6/6 in all comps.

Anyways, carry on - you seem to have a keen footballing eye.

Does it matter that great players like Ronaldo and Van Nistelrooy had their stats boosted by penalties? Hazard, Kane and Vardy have all scored 4 penalties this season. Pogba has also got 11 assists, second to Eriksens 16 from that set of midfielders. He's one of the most creative midfielders in the league which ever way you look at it.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

"Same old shit. Just a different day..."

Wanting to sale our ONLT creative midfielder. Rather than seeking to bring in proper support

 

[.Rossi]

Top 20 in the Redcafe best United players ever...

Ahead of Denis Law...

 

[GM K]

The best football I have ever seen Pogba play was those first five weeks after Ole came in.
I was shocked to see Paul play that way. He ran from box to box. One minute he was attacking in the opponents 18. The next minute he was clearing out balls from our box. It was stunning. He cut down the showboating and hardly lost the ball in midfield.

Can we rehire Jose and then fire him again immediately? That will bring out the best in Paul.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

"Same old shit. Just a different day..."

Wanting to sale our ONLT creative midfielder. Rather than seeking to bring in proper support

Agree with you chief, Pogba isn't a leader on the pitch by any stretch but he's an elite talent. We need to keep him and get better players around him to make up for weaknesses.

 

[El Zoido]

He’ll shine with better players around him. I remember at one point towards the end of the game he was visibly frustrated about the lack of passing options available to him. Even Messi has looked invisible and frustrated at times when playing for Argentina. A good player cannot do it all on their own.

 

[In Rainbows]

Some stats (PL and CL)

Assists (open play)
Pogba - 9
Eriksen - 10
B. Silva - 6

Through balls
Pogba - 4
Eriksen - 9
B. Silva - 5

Chances created (open play)
Pogba - 52
Eriksen - 51
B. Silva - 52

Goals scored (no pen)
Pogba - 5
Eriksen - 5
B. Silva - 6

Whoscored rating
Pogba - 7.41, 6.88
Eriksen - 7.10, 7.49
B. Silva - 7.17, 7.57
D. Silva - 7.31, 7.48

Redcafe rating
Pogba - 6.1 (4th best behind Shaw, de Gea, and Lindelof)



You can take away Pogba's pens, but you can't take away his creative ability or how close he is in every stat. I took away assists and chances created from corners or fks since you guys said no pens for Pogba.

I'm not saying that Pogba isn't currently playing well because of his teammates. I just don't think he should be sold. We should buy players to make his job easier though. No, not to build around him, but to simply have a better team. Tired of wank players like bird shit Young. Tired of people thinking we should sell him instead of just criticizing his performance for that match he stunk it up. It's clear that the price tag does a lot to cloud people's opinions, but you shouldn't let it cloud the objective fact that he's been one of our top performers. If we want to save money, just start integrating our young talents to fill in for some of these overpaid squad players.

edited in redcafe ratings ffs

 

[Baxter]

Top 20 in the Redcafe best United players ever...

Ahead of Denis Law...

Two pages in a row. Keep going and people might actually care.

 

[Jeppers7]

He's obviously not playing in the same position as he was when Ole first came in.

 

[The Nani]

Some stats (PL and CL)

Assists (open play)
Pogba - 9
Eriksen - 10
B. Silva - 6

Through balls
Pogba - 4
Eriksen - 9
B. Silva - 5

Chances created (open play)
Pogba - 52
Eriksen - 51
B. Silva - 52

Goals scored (no pen)
Pogba - 5
Eriksen - 5
B. Silva - 6


You can take away Pogba's pens, but you can't take away his creative ability or how close he is in every stat. I took away assists and chances created from corners or fks since you guys said no pens for Pogba.

This while playing half a season under Jose’s negative tactics and with far worse talent and far less cohesiveness surrounding him in general.

Quality post.

 

[berbatrick]

Repeating myself - he was the only consistent threat we had over both legs (3 chances created or Rashford from memory), the only one over both legs who showed he could both hold the ball and move it forward, the only one able to pick a runner. He had zero support offensively, and none of the half-chances he created amounted to anything.
Yes, he could have closed down more, and yes Arthur was better, but on the evidence of this, it would be madness to sell the one offensive player we have who does have the ability to play at the very highest level.

 

[sugar_kane]

I don’t doubt his talent but I do doubt his mentality and his commitment to the cause.

He showed against City last season he’s capable of digging us out but more often when things are going bad he just seems to lose all composure and looks defeated. It’s not what we need from our best player.

 

[.Rossi]

Two pages in a row. Keep going and people might actually care.

Well, this place did the voting so I assume people do care. No need to feel ashamed, we all make mistakes

 

[Loublaze]

Some stats (PL and CL)

Assists (open play)
Pogba - 9
Eriksen - 10
B. Silva - 6

Through balls
Pogba - 4
Eriksen - 9
B. Silva - 5

Chances created (open play)
Pogba - 52
Eriksen - 51
B. Silva - 52

Goals scored (no pen)
Pogba - 5
Eriksen - 5
B. Silva - 6

Whoscored rating
Pogba - 7.41, 6.88
Eriksen - 7.10, 7.49
B. Silva - 7.17, 7.57
D. Silva - 7.31, 7.48

Redcafe rating
Pogba - 6.1 (4th best behind Shaw, de Gea, and Lindelof)



You can take away Pogba's pens, but you can't take away his creative ability or how close he is in every stat. I took away assists and chances created from corners or fks since you guys said no pens for Pogba.

I'm not saying that Pogba isn't currently playing well because of his teammates. I just don't think he should be sold. We should buy players to make his job easier though. No, not to build around him, but to simply have a better team. Tired of wank players like bird shit Young. Tired of people thinking we should sell him instead of just criticizing his performance for that match he stunk it up. It's clear that the price tag does a lot to cloud people's opinions, but you shouldn't let it cloud the objective fact that he's been one of our top performers.

edited in redcafe ratings ffs

That just puts it in even more perspective. Some people will not believe it. @Suedesi what do you think good sir?

 

[roonster09]

Some stats (PL and CL)

Assists (open play)
Pogba - 9
Eriksen - 10
B. Silva - 6

Through balls
Pogba - 4
Eriksen - 9
B. Silva - 5

Chances created (open play)
Pogba - 52
Eriksen - 51
B. Silva - 52

Goals scored (no pen)
Pogba - 5
Eriksen - 5
B. Silva - 6

Whoscored rating
Pogba - 7.41, 6.88
Eriksen - 7.10, 7.49
B. Silva - 7.17, 7.57
D. Silva - 7.31, 7.48

Redcafe rating
Pogba - 6.1 (4th best behind Shaw, de Gea, and Lindelof)



You can take away Pogba's pens, but you can't take away his creative ability or how close he is in every stat. I took away assists and chances created from corners or fks since you guys said no pens for Pogba.

I'm not saying that Pogba isn't currently playing well because of his teammates. I just don't think he should be sold. We should buy players to make his job easier though. No, not to build around him, but to simply have a better team. Tired of wank players like bird shit Young. Tired of people thinking we should sell him instead of just criticizing his performance for that match he stunk it up. It's clear that the price tag does a lot to cloud people's opinions, but you shouldn't let it cloud the objective fact that he's been one of our top performers. If we want to save money, just start integrating our young talents to fill in for some of these overpaid squad players.

edited in redcafe ratings ffs

Very good post.

 

[Fracture90]

He set up couple of chances but it's evident that he isn't a leader on the pitch.

 

[SteveW]

Repeating myself - he was the only consistent threat we had over both legs (3 chances created or Rashford from memory), the only one over both legs who showed he could both hold the ball and move it forward, the only one able to pick a runner. He had zero support offensively, and none of the half-chances he created amounted to anything.
Yes, he could have closed down more, and yes Arthur was better, but on the evidence of this, it would be madness to sell the one offensive player we have who does have the ability to play at the very highest level.

Agreed. He creates most of our chances even on his bad days. Unsellable imo

 

[Treble]

Some stats (PL and CL)

Assists (open play)
Pogba - 9
Eriksen - 10
B. Silva - 6

Through balls
Pogba - 4
Eriksen - 9
B. Silva - 5

Chances created (open play)
Pogba - 52
Eriksen - 51
B. Silva - 52

Goals scored (no pen)
Pogba - 5
Eriksen - 5
B. Silva - 6

Whoscored rating
Pogba - 7.41, 6.88
Eriksen - 7.10, 7.49
B. Silva - 7.17, 7.57
D. Silva - 7.31, 7.48

Redcafe rating
Pogba - 6.1 (4th best behind Shaw, de Gea, and Lindelof)



You can take away Pogba's pens, but you can't take away his creative ability or how close he is in every stat. I took away assists and chances created from corners or fks since you guys said no pens for Pogba.

I'm not saying that Pogba isn't currently playing well because of his teammates. I just don't think he should be sold. We should buy players to make his job easier though. No, not to build around him, but to simply have a better team. Tired of wank players like bird shit Young. Tired of people thinking we should sell him instead of just criticizing his performance for that match he stunk it up. It's clear that the price tag does a lot to cloud people's opinions, but you shouldn't let it cloud the objective fact that he's been one of our top performers. If we want to save money, just start integrating our young talents to fill in for some of these overpaid squad players.

edited in redcafe ratings ffs

Whoscored has B. Silva on 9 goals (PL and CL). Hope that's the only mistake in those stats.

Otherwise, I agree with your point, wouldn't be smart to sell Pogba, he's key for this team and generally a top player.

 

[Suedesi]

That just puts it in even more perspective. Some people will not believe it. @Suedesi what do you think good sir?

I just looked at minutes played and here are the numbers in the PL and CL respectively:
Minutes Played (PL / CL)
Pogba 2561 731
Eriksen 2322 643
B Silva 2403 488

So PP has played the equivalent of 4 games more than Eriksen and Bernardo Silva. Do you think it might matter just a tad?

Let's assume that Pogba puts in a great through-ball that Lukaku misses it, whereas Eriksen's through-ball is converted by Kane. So is Eriksen superior by that crude example? Let's take it one step further - assume they feed through-balls to comparable strikers, one faces Heaton who pulls a worldie, the other faces Lloris who lets it squirm under his body, so the outcome has nothing to do with the quality of the through ball, or how the striker hits the ball, but one gets an assist and the other doesn't.

Again, that's the problem when you just look at stats and completely miss other faucets of the game.

 

[Beaucoup]

Some stats (PL and CL)

Assists (open play)
Pogba - 9
Eriksen - 10
B. Silva - 6

Through balls
Pogba - 4
Eriksen - 9
B. Silva - 5

Chances created (open play)
Pogba - 52
Eriksen - 51
B. Silva - 52

Goals scored (no pen)
Pogba - 5
Eriksen - 5
B. Silva - 6

Whoscored rating
Pogba - 7.41, 6.88
Eriksen - 7.10, 7.49
B. Silva - 7.17, 7.57
D. Silva - 7.31, 7.48

Redcafe rating
Pogba - 6.1 (4th best behind Shaw, de Gea, and Lindelof)



You can take away Pogba's pens, but you can't take away his creative ability or how close he is in every stat. I took away assists and chances created from corners or fks since you guys said no pens for Pogba.

I'm not saying that Pogba isn't currently playing well because of his teammates. I just don't think he should be sold. We should buy players to make his job easier though. No, not to build around him, but to simply have a better team. Tired of wank players like bird shit Young. Tired of people thinking we should sell him instead of just criticizing his performance for that match he stunk it up. It's clear that the price tag does a lot to cloud people's opinions, but you shouldn't let it cloud the objective fact that he's been one of our top performers. If we want to save money, just start integrating our young talents to fill in for some of these overpaid squad players.

edited in redcafe ratings ffs

There’s no doubting Pogba’s creativity, however this only tells half the story, i’d Like to see his stats for the other side of his game, number of times dispossessed, pass completion, km covered etc...he’s the ultimate luxury player

 

[sincher]

Again, that's the problem when you just look at stats and completely miss other faucets of the game.

Thanks Tappatoni

 

[sincher]

Pogba isn't the probga.

He just needs better playbas around him.

 

[RedorDead21]

Pogba isn't the probga.

He just needs better playbas around him.

Unable to shine in this team. Doesn't bode well for him ever reaching the heights expected of his talent.

 

[pascell]

I am not saying that. However, Pogba is an attacking midfielder and he needs to be adequately backed. Scholes became the best midfielder of his generation but people seem to forget that had Keane or Carrick at his back with Giggs & Ronaldo/Beckham at his side.

But don't worry, if we sell him there will be takers. Good luck finding takers for the 'loyal servants' though. Hopefully China can step up again.

I feel the same way as what you've said in the bold part. When he signed I'd imagine we sold him the idea we'll build a world class team around him and challenging for titles. He's now been here 3 years and we've failed to deliver on our promise, this is why I imagine he's looking to leave, if the papers are to be believed.

I'm not making excuses for him here but if Rashford burys the two chances Pogba fed him, his performance would look much, much better but he didn't, so it was an average performance.

 

[sincher]

Unable to shine in this team. Doesn't bode well for him ever reaching the heights expected of his talent.

Yeah some players just aren't that type though that can lift an otherwise ordinary team.

 

[TsuWave]

Some stats (PL and CL)

Assists (open play)
Pogba - 9
Eriksen - 10
B. Silva - 6

Through balls
Pogba - 4
Eriksen - 9
B. Silva - 5

Chances created (open play)
Pogba - 52
Eriksen - 51
B. Silva - 52

Goals scored (no pen)
Pogba - 5
Eriksen - 5
B. Silva - 6

Whoscored rating
Pogba - 7.41, 6.88
Eriksen - 7.10, 7.49
B. Silva - 7.17, 7.57
D. Silva - 7.31, 7.48

Redcafe rating
Pogba - 6.1 (4th best behind Shaw, de Gea, and Lindelof)



You can take away Pogba's pens, but you can't take away his creative ability or how close he is in every stat. I took away assists and chances created from corners or fks since you guys said no pens for Pogba.

I'm not saying that Pogba isn't currently playing well because of his teammates. I just don't think he should be sold. We should buy players to make his job easier though. No, not to build around him, but to simply have a better team. Tired of wank players like bird shit Young. Tired of people thinking we should sell him instead of just criticizing his performance for that match he stunk it up. It's clear that the price tag does a lot to cloud people's opinions, but you shouldn't let it cloud the objective fact that he's been one of our top performers. If we want to save money, just start integrating our young talents to fill in for some of these overpaid squad players.

edited in redcafe ratings ffs

All this will be ignored in favour of more dog piling. The vitriol this guy gets is so unjustified it’s comical. People watched Young and De Gea gifting the tie to Barcelona (after our decent start in which Pogba created a clear chance for Rashford who wasted it), but decided to camp the Pogba thread.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a fanbase being so hostile with a star player that is one of their academy graduates. Fully bought into pundits mentioning dumb shit like his haircut, his happy disposition, hell, at one point people were mad he said United should play attacking football. Dude is out here outperforming most rival central midfielders, that often get praised on this forum, in this shite United team, and leading a private life, meanwhile their heroes of yesteryear and supposed model individuals getting done for all kinds of unethical reasons and character flaws from betting to domestic violence.

but let’s bond over hating on Pogba like he’s anywhere being the crux of the problem with this team.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Repeating myself - he was the only consistent threat we had over both legs (3 chances created or Rashford from memory), the only one over both legs who showed he could both hold the ball and move it forward, the only one able to pick a runner. He had zero support offensively, and none of the half-chances he created amounted to anything.
Yes, he could have closed down more, and yes Arthur was better, but on the evidence of this, it would be madness to sell the one offensive player we have who does have the ability to play at the very highest level.

Definitely. I hate his shoulder shrugs and petulant fouls when things aren't going our way, that pissed me off hugely last night it must be said, but he's so far down our list of problems and ideal movers in the summer it's crazy how often I read/hear 'feck him off' from United fans. We should be trying add players of his quality, not fecking them off out the door.

 

[Stacks]

Top 20 in the Redcafe best United players ever...

Ahead of Denis Law...

tells you more about the age of our fanbase, although Law relegated us .
in all seriousness, he is the least of our problems. We need to build a side like France national team. At least 2 quality attacking players he can aim for or link up with and a RB who can overlap.

 

[ForeverUnited93]

Wouldn't lose sleep if he leaves, he is a good player but nothing special.

 

[charlenefan]

This was a few months into the PL season, and his work rate shot up in that initial run of wins when Solskjaer took over. I also don't think any other player at United has covered more ground in a single match than Pogba did against Newcastle in that 3-2 comeback win.

Interesting, how does that compare to the names I mentioned?

 

[RedorDead21]

Wouldn't lose sleep if he leaves, he is a good player but nothing special.

He's very special. We need to try and get him happy and playing better next season. I think Sanchez and his wages has impacted a lot of the players and he needs to be shown the door asap so we can address some balance to the hierarchy of play well, earn well.

 

[Loublaze]

All this will be ignored in favour of more dog piling. The vitriol this guy gets is so unjustified it’s comical. People watched Young and De Gea gifting the tie to Barcelona (after our decent start in which Pogba created a clear chance for Rashford who wasted it), but decided to camp the Pogba thread.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a fanbase being so hostile with a star player that is one of their academy graduates. Fully bought into pundits mentioning dumb shit like his haircut, his happy disposition, hell, at one point people were mad he said United should play attacking football. Dude is out here outperforming most rival central midfielders, that often get praised on this forum, in this shite United team, and leading a private life, meanwhile their heroes of yesteryear and supposed model individuals getting done for all kinds of unethical reasons and character flaws from betting to domestic violence.

but let’s bond over hating on Pogba like he’s anywhere being the crux of the problem with this team.

The so called professionals on this site who have nothing but praise for those opposition players don't even watch them week in week out im sure, im talking full games. Most people base their conclusions on highlights on MOTD, points on the table, media dickriding and results, basically all the positives and nothing else. Its easy to praise players of teams that are performing well overall, without taking a deeper look into actual individual contributions. Some on here didn't even realize Pogba has outscored and assisted more than most of those rival team midfielders but were quick to say they've been better than Pogba without hesitation before they saw the stats.

The lengths they go to discredit the guy even in the face of evidence proving them wrong is astonishing. They do not like Pogba because he's a new breed of player they cannot relate to. His dancing, his social media activity, his aura, his culture, its totally alien to them. If Pogba was 'humble' like Mata or Herrera maybe they'd get off his back. Pogba should be criticized for poor performances, but some of the stuff in here is OTT.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I don't remember a single player in our modern era that keeps letting his defenders down again and again and again and they keep excusing him again and again and again. They will keep defending him and he will keep letting them down till he finally and inevitably leaves. Some will get tired of being let down by him at some point though, I'm sure of it.

I've already gotten tired of defending him.

I don't care if we sell him at this point.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

The biggest problem is that we fundamentally can't play a quick pressing game with Pogba (and Martial) in the team.

There were half a dozen occasions yesterday where McTominay, Rashford and Lingard had pressed high and "penned" in the Barcelona back line. The problem was that Martial and Pogba were lackadaisically jogging around woth no real purpose. Therefore there was always an out ball for Pique, Ter Stegan, Alba etc making any pressing from the others somewhat pointless.

Likewise if we want to adopt a fast paced attack we can't have two players who slow the game down so intentionally almost every time they're in possession.

Personally I think since Fergie left we've had the flawed policy of merely buying players, whereas Klopp and Guardiola have been building a team.

I'd trade Pogba and Martial for Bernardo Silva and Mane in a second. Both were far less expensive but they actually suit the modern game.

Likewise going into this Summer if I we get Casemiro, Neves and Eriksen for Pogba and Martial I think we'd have less talented individuals but a much better team.

This sums it up perfectly.

We've bought players purely to buy them. No clue how they suit us nor how to build a team.

It's been a major constant since SAF retired.

 

[youmeletsfly]

If a creative player has the stats to back him then the fault lies with the players around him.

But the caf would want Pogba to dribble the wholr fecking team, run up to Ed's chair, slap him round and then score.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

He's obviously not playing in the same position as he was when Ole first came in.

He's not.

And there's the thing right there: to many it's not a question of wanting him shipped out at all costs because we prefer work horses, or because we're closet racists, or whatever else being a Pogba "hater" amounts to according to some people.

* How much will it take to build a top level midfield around him, or rather behind him, with him playing the only role I - at least - think he'll ever truly excel in on a regular basis?

* Does Ole even plan on doing this? Or is his intention to play him deeper, as a more controlling sort of central midfielder? I'd call that a huge gamble, and that's being diplomatic.

* As I've said before, you don't blindly pick your most talented individual and build the team around him regardless of what sort of player he actually is. It doesn't work if that player isn't consistent enough, or his side kicks aren't good enough, or he is played in a non-optimal position/role - or a combination of all the above.