I'm guessing this wasn't all his touches but he looked pretty good there!
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Decent performance in a tough game vs Germany. Pitch was atrocious but did a solid job. I'm not sure what people want ? I think similar to Ronaldo when he was at United, some people don't like the person. Get bitter over it to the point it clouds their judgement. Then seem to delight in anything even random stats, if it puts Pogba in a bad light.
What a sad reality FFS
What a sad reality FFS
Yeah, it was a decent game from him. I'm actually surprised by the stats but at the same time both teams were solid in midfield and avoided that area as much as possible.
Well it would be great if he could bring some consistency into his game. I don't think anyone doubts his ability, but you don't know whether or not he's going to show up bothered or not for games each week. I don't think he's had five to ten good games in a row since coming back.
Wouldn't say Kante suffers without pogba. He won the premier league with Leicester in 2016 and Chelsea in 2017, didnt exactly have great creative midfield partners there. Player of the season in both. Hes proved he is world class on his own in different teams and different competitions. Pogba really hasnt and is the one that everyone keeps saying needs all these specific systems to perform.
LOL. It's like you didn't watch the games. He was far from 10/10 overall. Maybe 8/10.
To be fair, it's a bit much - regardless of how talented he is - to expect him to be consistent when we, as a team, haven't been consistent ourselves for so many years. The past two games have brought optimism in terms of seeing some progression in team cohesion, so hopefully we kick on from that and Pogba starts delivering along with the team as a whole.
I mean, think back to Veron in that he was clearly talented but never made as much impact as our other midfield starters at said time so it was clear that he himself was having problems adjusting. Now, it's fair to say no one is consistent bar de Gea which, in my opinion, makes me it's a team issue rather than an individual issue á la Veron.
Fair.
Not looking to start an argument as I'm not the type of guy that starts that on a forum, but I will try to explain myself a bit. The way I worded my initial statement was a bit dumb, I'll give you that.
In his most recent interview(before the CAF meltdown one), Pogs said something like this:
- I'm a world champion....etc (Repeated this twice or thrice, did that in a few other interviews as well)
- Talked about France's players needing to be examples "Some of us need to be role models now, even if we don't want to". (started from him saying that french players get a lot more attention now that they're world champions)
I'm all up for him enjoying his world cup win, but c'mon, be honest, it's all he talks about in the last 3 months, the world cup and not knowing what the fek he will do with his future. He is not a world champion, France is. He didn't carry France to the final, they carried him, even if he had some decent performances, he didn't shine. He keeps stating this shite that he is a world champion, he is not, they are, as a team. As a united fan I'm a bit bothered here:
- he's so full of himself after the WC win
- after the WC win he started to gain an attitude and comment shite about UTD and Jose in the media (things that need to remain private)
- he speaks about "being role models even if they don't want to be" -> if you expect to be a top notch footie player, with dunno how many Instagram followers and to not be a role model, you're either immature or plain dumb
I know he's a public figure and that he should never pledge his future to the club publicly because he might be the loser afterwards, but instead of continuously rambling about the WC win he should either talk some sense when he's being interviewed or shut his mouth.
Some of you are blinded by the fact that he's a UTD player and give him a bit of slack. Even if I"m a massive fan of the guy on the sporting front(where he could achieve much more with his talent), he's become a bit of a pain since the world cup and you should all see that.
I know that times have passed and that thew new generation of players are much more media hungry, much more "showy", but c'mon, have a bit of respect. You'd never see Giggs, Scholes, Berba, Vidic, even not feking Anderson repeating the same "I'm a world champion now" shite in every interview.
It's the way he says it that bothers me, it's like "that's it guys, I did it, I've achieved as a football player, don't need to do anything else". If you wipe the world cup and 1 very good season he had at Juventus, he achieved nothing in this game until now.
He was asked about what it felt to win the World Cup, how it changed their lives in the eyes of people. And he said "We" not "I".
Ok....so you're writing this on all the players threads ? Barring DeGea of course ?
No, just for the ones looking for a move away when we need to be united and pull up our sleeves now.
Ah...you have inside info. Sorry I wasn't privy to that information
Thread is a bit quiet considering he's been playing well v Netherlands, no?
No offense, but you're completely misreading him. He's not at all coming off that way to people who actually know what he's saying in French, not what's been translated. And he is a world champion, they all are. They all played their part. Also, when he speaks of role models, he's speaking of his teammates as well. Pogba's been nothing but a class example, has played for great coaches and you never hear of him being unprofessional, in trouble, or missing practice. The reputation he's been handed by the media is pretty disgusting compared to the person he really is and some fall for it as if it was gospel. It's nonsense. Now there's still some talking how he's talking about leaving in a few months when he never said that and it was grossly mistranslated.
People think it's Pogba but it's always has and will be the team.
For France he has Matuidi, Mbappe and Griezmann who are always on the move to linkup up with, and they'll do something useful when they get the ball. The full backs are also solid as well, and the centre backs are very good on the ball so can push up high the way Madrid and Barca do too. All of this lets him be far more creative, even Giroud as a long-ball option to switch things up helps his game.
For us, aside from Lukaku there's not really much creativity in our team. Sanchez loves the ball at his feet and then looks for non-existant runners when he should be the runner, Lingard runs a lot but he's just not very good with the ball. Shaw's started well but usually our full backs aren't great at attack, all of which means when Pogba gets the ball for us he's just surrounded by static zombies.
Playing well for France at the moment. Some clever passes here and there.
Great performance.
He's a quality player, makes France tick. Playing the game more simply as many have wanted. Being disciplined. Makes it look easy. He needs runners though. Any midfielder will look poor if there isn't a pass they can play.
Exactly. People ask for consistency for Pogba but how do you expect this to happen when we have never been consistent as a team? Our line up changes basically every game, there is no continuity, no style of play. When he plays for France everyone knows exactly what to be doing and where to be. The tactic was very clear from the beginning. Defend together as a team and when the ball breaks in midfield Pogba hits the quick long ball for Mbappe or Griezmann to chase. Basically that danger was always there even when France didn't have the ball. When have we as a team launched counter attacks with any sort of consistency in the last two years? I don't remember much.
Pogba didn't need to be amazing and score for people to recognize his work in games. Just solid for the whole part like he is for us but when it comes to other teams he can create maybe 3/4 goal scoring opportunities from direct passes where he is creating the angles even if those chances aren't converted. At United usually he gets robbed because he holds on to the ball for longer than was needed. If the run isn't made the pass won't come.
The key thing is there's no style of play at United. With Man City things didn't work out in the first season with Pep so they spent money but continued to play the same way passing from the back because players eventually get it when there is consistency. The system is drilled until it's habit so players don't have to think twice. They already know where to be. See like if you watch Jorginho already he is leading Chelsea. You see him directing players and basically being the orchestrator because he knows the system. At United there is none of that. No consistent partnerships and no chemistry and this why it's difficult to name many players excelling at United although I'm hoping the last two games are a sign we are working towards improving this so we should be patient and see if we can continue like this.
Of course I'm not saying I wouldn't want to see more from Pogba with United but there has to be a structure so we can say 'OK this system works but Pogba is not performing in it, let's get a new player that will suit the and system' instead of buying the next shiny toy and having the exact same problems. What happens then? Do we buy another player after? It will be the usual one or two top games but largely no consistency because our starting 11 and formation changes every game.
I thought he was excellent last night. So the international break really just confirms what we know already. He’s as capable of going from dire to brilliant from one match to the next in a French shirt as he is at United.
Hard to disagree with any of this. While Pogba has been inexplicably bad at times (like, can't complete a simple pass bad), if we had a proper system and approach to our play we'd surely see his average level rise.
He wasn't dire against Germany or in the WC.
Didn’t watch the Germany game but everyone who did watch it said he was crap. With ratings from the French press that concurs with those opinions.
I did watch the World Cup and he was average/poor in as many games as he was good/excellent.
I'm pretty sure that they didn't watch it, they watched Whoscored's tweet. Both teams avoided center midfield because it was well defended by both teams.
Nope, it just confirms that Pogba above everyone else is getting unfairly judged by a lot of «experts». A mediocre and tough game is always bad for him, whilst players like Griezmann, Mbappe and Kante aren’t mentioned at all even though they had the same exact impact. They get a free pass, Pogba is poor - it’s the same when he plays for United.
Agree with this. And the mark of a world class player, as many are labelling him, is high level consistency. Arnautovic has world class moments, ffs. Is he a world class player? The fact of the matter is, you never know which Pogba you are going to get. If it's just about him playing better on the big stage that would explain some, but he doesn't. Why would he be bad against Germany and good against the Netherlands if that was so? I watched him play for Juventus against Barcelona and he also struggled then. I sometimes wonder if his positioning both in attack, but especially when the opposition has the ball, is a little off. Then he often spends too much time on the ball. His technique and passing are both world class, so nothing to critique him for there.
Pogba wasn't bad against Germany the midfield was just very congested and he played the same disciplined role.
Which games are these? I must have missed them...
Sounds like you did alright.
Why are you commenting on it and making judgements on a game you've admittedly not seen ?
Then the second part is just a blatant lie.
Pathetic.
Playing centre mid and with the responsibility to drive the team is probably the toughest job in the game. He is expected to make the team tick. Every time the team doesn't function the spotlight is on him. Griezmann and Mbappe being forwards have games where they are non-existent but are excused because they are reliant on service. Water-carriers also have an easier time - they've just got to put themselves about although need to be careful to avoid mistakes. For me, Pogba plays the same for France as he does for us. Mostly good games - the occasional dominant one (Everton, City away) - and the occasional shocker (Brighton 2nd game in). He probably looks better for France as he has more movement ahead of him. He is such a talent that the team needs to be built around him. I think Jose wanted another CB (with better ball playing skills) so he could play three at the back. This worked really well in the first half at home to Spurs. Rashford and Lingaard/Sanchez could then play off Lukaku. This would give Pogba something to aim at on the break. when all the CB's are fit I think he'll go 3 at the back in a lot of games. It's a shame Lindelof hasn't settled as he has the composure on the ball we need to play that system. I hope he preseveres with Lindez, Bailly and Rojo. Smalling not up to it and Jones too injury prone
Play poor or good with France, I don't care. Didn't comment on his performance on both Germany and Netherlands games either positive or negative. I only care about his performance with United shirt.
That's fair..l.lhave you ever commented on his international performances?
Said previously I disagreed with those who think he was poor in WC, as he was actually quite good, but it's his performance with United shirt that matters the most as a United fan, much like Dave who was rubbish in WC but as long as he does the job for United, I don't care.
I think Pogba is being unfairly slated esp against Brighton where the other players did not run into space to receive a pass.
That's fair. I thought you'd said he was good at the World Cup. I'm not sure how anyone thinks otherwise tbh. But yeah it's more about what he does for united.
I'm a Pogba fan...but I can't blame that performance on anyone else. Pogba was actually right in his post match comments. The team didn't turn up with the same desire as Brightons. For some reason Pogba got slated for his honesty. People made out that he said he couldn't be arsed. He didn't, he just said they need to make sure in future they match the opposition for desire. Pretty sure the likes of Keane and Giggs, Rio etc have said similar at times in the past.
Pogba thrives in the French Team because he has virtually all the support elements he needs. It also helps he has a little more time on the ball. In Italy that was the case as well. Having Kante or even Nzonzi next to him, Mbappe making runs non stop, Giroud/Griezmann to dish the ball off to...it all makes for a good fit for him. He is missing some of this at Man Utd. Either he adapts or Man Utd has to adapt more or both.
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