Jones just isn't up to it...He's like a young Evans coming through - a very handy squad player to have in the team but nothing more than ...Van Gaal must be kicking himself for failing to land an experienced central defender in the summer and it's about to cost us a top 4 spot
4
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 24
- Clean sheets
- 7
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 3
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Embarrassing that when he first signed people were comparing him to Duncan Edwards and Bryan Robson. This lad will never reach those qualities because he's not up for it. His marking on corners is terrible and his positional awareness is horrible.
He's a liability in my opinion. I think some of us think he's new, learning still etc etc, but he's been with us for a while now - he should be far more reliable than he is. He's positioning is terrible, he has no thought process when with the ball and he seems to the person most likely to give away a pen each game.
He may go in the summer - and I think he should. Rojo has shown more this season than jones has for the past 2. Even Smalling has gotten better during this season.
Jones just hasn't reached the heights we all once thought. The risk of building a player up before they've delivered. I think another season will be generous to him.
He may go in the summer - and I think he should. Rojo has shown more this season than jones has for the past 2. Even Smalling has gotten better during this season.
Jones just hasn't reached the heights we all once thought. The risk of building a player up before they've delivered. I think another season will be generous to him.
Both Jones and Rojo have been as bad each other.
Yeah, people like Sir Bobby. How dare he!
Young player struggling to reach his gargantuan expectations at one of the biggest clubs in the world. Shock horror.
Give him a fecking break.
Give him a fecking break.
He's a long way from the ball for the first goal.
I agree with the fact that after 2 years here, he doesn't seem to have developed.
If you're good enough, your old enough. Varane is 21 and plays at Madrid and is constantly linked with us. If he came, presumably he'd replace 23 yr old Phil Jones.
I've said this in previous threads, he and Smalling had the best two CB to learn from for years. It now looks like neither of them paid enough attention to rio and Vidic - or they did but they aren't half the defenders they were. Either way we need to rectify that problem far sooner than spending 100+ million on a flash MF or forward.
Whether it's 3-5-2 or 4-4-2, if you don't have the defenders in the team no formation will properly work.
He has seriously stagnated, if not regressed. We need an upgrade on Jones in the summer. I don't mind keeping him as a squad player as he's still young but he can't be a starter. He just seems so utterly clueless and cumbersome.
They didn't develop as expected because they played only a handful of games at centre half under Ferguson's catalogue of mismanagement in his later years.
They don't learn from Rio and Vidic by simply watching, they learn the game by getting time on the pitch. I'm critical of Jones as I don't think he has the innate positioning great centre halves inherently have, but he was woefully managed at the most crucial stage of his development and he pays the price for that now. Smalling, to a degree, has too.
It'd be incredibly naive to think that Jones hasn't improved since he came here. He may not have improved in the areas posters wanted or even in the best areas for a CB, but he clearly improved how often he wins the ball and he improved on the ball in a midfield role.
He still needs to improve his concentration and cut out the mistakes on and off the ball. Thats what will make or break him as a CB, but he's still got a bit more time to show he can do it. Its frustrating that he hasnt rectified that and it may turn out that he never does, but it doesn't mean he hasnt improved. Thats a silly thought.
He still needs to improve his concentration and cut out the mistakes on and off the ball. Thats what will make or break him as a CB, but he's still got a bit more time to show he can do it. Its frustrating that he hasnt rectified that and it may turn out that he never does, but it doesn't mean he hasnt improved. Thats a silly thought.
He's only 23. Easy to forget seeing as we signed him so young.
I'd say he's a couple of years off being properly consistent.
The same Sir Bobby who didn't want us to appoint mourinho. Ex players do have a habit of talking nonsense.
Hes just turned 23, thats no age for a CB.
Maybe so but I'd say on the whole, the majority of the posters on here aren't old enough to know whether the said comparison is valid or not.
He just has this knack of knocking into his own team mates during games.
Yeah but
A) He's too injury-prone. How many times was he subbed of due injury in the first 60 minutes??? I don't know but my feeling is it's too often!!!
B) Has he really improved so much since we've signed him???
Only one of Jones or Smalling can stay. One must go with Evans.
Agree with you, but for what they produce this season, I'm not sure that in term of quality and production this season, Rojo was far better than one of Smalling and Jones.
I agree that we have to get rid of Evans and one of Jones/Smalling, but I can't trust Rojo to be first choice CB.
I would sign two new CB's + Jones/Smalling + Rojo + McNair
On Jones and Smalling.....it depends who plays better and can stay fit til the end of the season
If we don't have CL next year I guess that only Evans will leave
The new two CB's then wouldn't be for sure Hummels and Laporte.......instead Mexes and Reid
um , here's one for you. titus bramble was once 23 and never got rid of the mental mistakes. had speed and heading ability and could clear a ball. but at 25 and older he was still thick!
Is 23 the new 30?
no but stupid is as stupid does. he needs to get smart until then age means fuc4all. rather a smart 30 yr old than a thick 23 yr old.
This post is odd. How do you gain experience?
by playing. how do you get smart? that is by thinking. if he just plays then he'll be titus bramble if he plays and starts to use his head he may be a player until then he is a mistake waiting to happen.
wtf are you talking about. It's as if Jones chooses to be stupid and not smart.by learning to position himself on the pitch like a cb. he has all the physical traits needed for a cb. i don't think it's a choice , i hope it's because he's 23. but as i posted titus bramble was 23 once and was never smart enough to play up to his physical ability/potential.
I'm struggling to understand what you mean. You become smart by thinking? Do you think a player knows everything by the age of 23?
The only way to get smart for a player is to get a good coach with the right words to help him during training and matches and experience too. Every player has a limit when it comes to footballing intelligence, maybe Jones will never be the type of player we want him to be or maybe he will. The only thing I am sure of is that he tries his best (to think) and at times it's just not good enough. It's not as if he chooses deliberately to position himself badly or have these off moments.
TBF the club doesn't have a decent Centre Back, Smalling is probably the best.
never meant to have it come across as he's thinking to himself " I think I'll fuc4 up a header here". it's my fear he'll be titus bramble.
I've always liked Bramble, in some matches he was a real beast but in others ...
Jones has stagnated. He actually started out the season looking the part, but since he returned from his injury he's looked woeful, if not dire.
I'm torn on who between Smalling and Jones I would let go, assuming the obvious acquisition of a top CB this summer. The case for either being retained as a squad man is actually pretty strong. I'd give the edge to Smalling.
And, without any question, Evans is done as a United man. Enough is enough.
I'm torn on who between Smalling and Jones I would let go, assuming the obvious acquisition of a top CB this summer. The case for either being retained as a squad man is actually pretty strong. I'd give the edge to Smalling.
And, without any question, Evans is done as a United man. Enough is enough.
Are we sure it Sir Bobby who nixed the appointment of Mourinho? I've read it here on the caf before but have never seen it anywhere else.
Someone obviously nixed it, as it is well known Mourinho was desperate to manage United. WE caftards were desperate for Mourinho to manage United. But instead someone on the board authorized the appointment of Moyes.
If that's not an occasion for a Picardian facepalm I don't know what is!
But was he better than Zidane?
I don't know if this is genuine criticism at Jones for the goal, but it really wasn't Jones at fault. The shape of the entire team from that throw in is an absolute mess. Jones (or anyone) had to be in that channel incase the throw in was played short and Routledge got in behind McNair, which was very possible as McNair was having a mare. Instead, Shelvey was given all the time in the world to play in a cross. Blind has dropped in whilst Jones covers the channel.He's a long way from the ball for the first goal.
Herrera really should have been closer to Shelvey, and perhaps Fellaini should have dropped in to that channel as well, as it's wide open. After that, it's Shaw at fault for losing Ki so easily.
From being marked and Shaw being goal side...
...to Ki getting the right side of Shaw and finishing nicely.
To be fair, it's a great cross, and Ki's run and finish were superb. Herrera and Shaw should have done better though. The cross was avoidable if Shelvey wasn't given a fortnight to pick out his ball. Ki's run could have tracked better. Shaw should be first to that all day long to smash it out for a throw or even a corner.
I don't know if this is genuine criticism at Jones for the goal, but it really wasn't Jones at fault. The shape of the entire team from that throw in is an absolute mess. Jones (or anyone) had to be in that channel incase the throw in was played short and Routledge got in behind McNair, which was very possible as McNair was having a mare. Instead, Shelvey was given all the time in the world to play in a cross. Blind has dropped in whilst Jones covers the channel.
Herrera really should have been closer to Shelvey, and perhaps Fellaini should have dropped in to that channel as well, as it's wide open. After that, it's Shaw at fault for losing Ki so easily.
From being marked and Shaw being goal side...
...to Ki getting the right side of Shaw and finishing nicely.
To be fair, it's a great cross, and Ki's run and finish were superb. Herrera and Shaw should have done better though. The cross was avoidable if Shelvey wasn't given a fortnight to pick out his ball. Ki's run could have tracked better. Shaw should be first to that all day long to smash it out for a throw or even a corner.
in every photo he's out of position. marking what channel for whom to run into , our keeper? you keep mentioning other players getting tight he's a cb and he tight on the stuff growing under his feet that's about all. he has moved a total of 3 feet from purple head getting the ball and the cross coming in. if he ran and hadn't walked maybe he blocks that channel the ball went through.
Someone needs to be in the channel. If that throw in is played to Routledge and he knocks it past McNair, he's got an enormous space to run into with the ball. A defender being in that space makes that option less viable. If it's not Jones in that channel then it needs to be someone else. Blind has dropped in for Jones, as you'd expect a defensive midfielder to be alert to. That happens all the time. The spaces between central players and full backs have to be manned, or the space needs to be reduced by players dropping in. It's just basic.
Herrera gets nowhere near his man, Shaw was goal side and then lets his man waltz right by. Jones' fault?