Protests following the killing of George Floyd

[Redlambs]

I don’t know it and I am not saying that there isn’t just cause, I just fail to see how the riots will achieve any sort of intended outcome.

And you can't also see how this is such a weak answer.

Instead of telling these people what they SHOULDN'T be doing, maybe you should look at why they ARE doing.

White people trying to tell black people how they should react to their oppression would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic.

Kaepernick and some of his colleagues tried to peacefully and respectfully protest against police brutality in a public and the President of the United States called them sons of bitches and unpatriotic and said they should get out of the country if they don’t like their lot.

I mean for feck sake.

I mean...what the hell. I wouldn't mind, people aren't expected to know everything about everything, but what gets me is the actual push back!

 

[SilentWitness]

It seemed as though you were suggesting the issues in both countries are on an equal footing.

No. Just that the USA is a nation built on racism which is why it is still rife within the country as it has never been addressed and the UK is a nation which actively took part in colonising large parts of the world and that was in part due to racism. And guess what? That racism is still rife within the UK and its establishments because it hasn't been addressed. When people say that the police are racist in the USA or the UK or wherever - they aren't labelling the individuals in the police as racist. They are labelling the system which the police is under as racist as there is proven bias and a system which is a safe haven for people to hold these views as there has been no major changes to it.

I’d bet the US is far more disproportionate relative to the UK.

im not saying that black people/minorities are not subject to racism in the UK and racism is abhorrent - no argument.

If people are protesting in London today - that’s directly because they see similar in the US and they’re jumping in the bandwagon and using it as an excuse. It cheapens their argument.

I’d love to see racism eradicated, but rioting and destroying innocent businesses etc is bullshit.

And? Things need to have a catalyst to force change. These protests in the US wouldn't have happened without the Cooper or Floyd incidents, but they happened and they were a catalyst for the protests to take place. Why is that an issue exactly? If black people are being physically and emotionally opressed in the US then there is no doubt that those biases will trickle along to other nations - even more so now due to the power of Twitter, the media and the internet. There is no cheapening of an argument or losing moral standing when it comes to being racially oppressed ffs.

 

[RedPed]

I love how the people making the most noise about the protests and riots are the good old coppers and the privileged who have never experienced true discrimination most probably.

 

[TheReligion]

I didn’t say there shouldn’t be one, I said we don’t need one to know those facts.

We need one to know all of the facts. That's what it's for. Anyway we digress. I'll leave you be.

 

[Cloud7]

"My brother is dead but my moral standards are intact. That's a win."

There's a joke to be made here about Anakin, Obi Wan and the high ground, but my mind just isn't working well enough to put it together.

 

[Ludens the Red]

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Jesus, I mean he’s made a complete hash job of that
He could have posted about Stephen Lawrence, Mark Duggan, Julian Cole Etc
Instead he chooses a dude who was drink driving with his kid, and two other pictures of “random things happening”. I grade him a 1/10.

 

[villain]

I don’t know it and I am not saying that there isn’t just cause, I just fail to see how the riots will achieve any sort of intended outcome.

Have you heard of the phrase, 'doing the same thing over & over and expecting different results is insanity'?

It's time to try something new.

The slaves didn't free themselves over a handshake.
Haiti didn't gain independence after a cup of tea.
Civil Rights weren't given after a game of croquet etc

In 400 years America has failed to reconcile it's bloody history on it's own accord - you can't expect Black Americans to remain peaceful forever.

Quite frankly, i'm surprised it's taken this long - the way they've been treated, they should've razed the land to the ground long ago.
I would suggest you read up on the history of treatment that the slaves had to endure, plus government sanctioned initiatives such as COINTELPRO, the 1985 Philadelphia Bombing - plus dozens of other violence against black people such as the Slocum Massacre, Tulsa Race Riots, Lynchings, Chester Race riot and many more.

And with no disrespect, if you aren't aware of a topic, especially something as emotionally charged as racism - surely it's best not to interject without any facts?

 

[Cloud7]

It's difficult enough to learn enough history to understand why we are where we are, let alone before agenda driven groups whitewash history to shape their own narrative.

One of the most vivid experiences of my life was watching 'Roots' as a young child on TV. Those feelings permanently educated me to feel like I do. And I'm glad Netflix recently produced a new version of that story. Tarrantino did an excellent job too with Django Unchained. Ditto the recent Godfather of Harlem about Bumpy Johnson. Many many more in between.

I hope cultural story tellers continue to educate all about USA's history of black citizen oppression, and explain simply why we are where we are.

Yeah it genuinely astounds me when people try to paint the founding and history of America as anything even vaguely positive. For a country as relatively young as theirs, the amount of atrocities that have been committed is nothing short of mind blowing.

 

[sammsky1]

So a 7 second clip of an incident you or I know nothing about proves police throughout the UK are racist and brutalise people. Right okay.

Do you want a proper answer to this? You can punch someone in the head or even in the bollocks if you prefer. It's all about using reasonable force which is proportionate, lawful, appropriate and necessary. From a 7 second clip I can't give a full opinion on him punching the guy (most appears to be hammer fists to his back BTW) even though it looks excessive.

Took me about 10 seconds to find. I dread to think what I could find on public platforms if I spent even just an hour. And who knows how many more horrific stories are on police eyes only data bases. And that's before all the allegations that cant be proved because of lack of physical evidence.

Are you saying people of colour are not abused more by British police? Is that the argument you are making?

 

[Rado_N]

Kaepernick lost his job over it

And got deliberately kept out of the league since.

 

[George Owen]

What are you expecting to happen?

First of all, Policemen will think it twice before lynching an innocent citizen (if being filmed). And that's only the beginning.

 

[sammsky1]

Jesus, I mean he’s made a complete hash job of that
He could have posted about Stephen Lawrence, Mark Duggan, Julian Cole Etc
Instead he chooses a dude who was drink driving with his kid, and two other pictures of “random things happening”. I grade him a 1/10.

And yet even with 1/10, he still has a vivid story to tell.

 

[Rasendori]

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[nimic]

It's very difficult to learn enough history to understand why we are where we are, let alone before agenda driven groups whitewash history to shape their own narrative.

One of the most vivid experiences of my life was watching 'Roots' as a young child on TV. Those feelings permanently educated me to feel like I do. And I'm glad Netflix recently produced a new version of that story. Tarrantino did an excellent job too with Django Unchained. Ditto the recent Godfather of Harlem about Bumpy Johnson and Malcolm X. Many many more in between.

I hope cultural story tellers continue to educate all about USA's history of black citizen oppression, and explain simply why we are where we are.

On this topic, I recommend the Scene on Radio podcast and their latest series on Democracy in America.

Episode 1:

http://www.sceneonradio.org/rich-mans-revolt/

 

[Pughnichi]

Don't try and backtrack. It's certainly not "faux outrage" as I find it highly insulting to tell someone they are friends with racists.

Put the personal insults aside and discuss like an adult or log off and take your pent up anger out elsewhere. No time for it.

there’s no defending it
There’s no emergency worthy of putting it into gear and driving through civilians at excessive speed.
They both could have reversed.

 

[entropy]

This is why there should be an inquiry post incident.

Ah yes. Because we already know that cops dont lie. Like ever.

 

[Foxbatt]

No one out of those people going there gives a shit about losing their morale high ground. It isn’t twitter mate.

The US has a systematic repressive system that has been going on far too long. Peaceful protests result in feck all. Systems are always build in balance, and there is always a breaking point. Often, the breaking point in isolation means feck all and might look like part of the norm (the death of Floyd is identical to the deaths of countless other black civilians killed by brutal cops who didn’t even lose their jobs let alone go to prison). While short term damage is gonna be high, this is the only way for the black people in the US to actually start gaining human rights.

No one likes to see looting and rioting, but this is just the syndrome of a system that is rotten to the core.

Absolutely right. You can have a million march peacefully and nothing will happen. I forgot. A million men did march and nothing has improved at all. It got worse if anything. Riots don't happen on its own. Riots evolve from protests. All these peaceful protest have done feck all in the USA for African Americans and people who are non whites.
The system in the US is rotten to the core. Truthfully in some other countries too like Australia too.

 

[Redlambs]

Have you heard of the phrase, 'doing the same thing over & over and expecting different results is insanity'?

It's time to try something new.

The slaves didn't free themselves over a handshake.
Haiti didn't gain independence after a cup of tea.
Civil Rights weren't given after a game of croquet etc

In 400 years America has failed to reconcile it's bloody history on it's own accord - you can't expect Black Americans to remain peaceful forever.

Quite frankly, i'm surprised it's taken this long - the way they've been treated, they should've razed the land to the ground long ago.
I would suggest you read up on the history of treatment that the slaves had to endure, plus government sanctioned initiatives such as COINTELPRO, the 1985 Philadelphia Bombing - plus dozens of other violence against black people such as the Slocum Massacre, Tulsa Race Riots, Lynchings, Chester Race riot and many more.

And with no disrespect, if you aren't aware of a topic, especially something as emotionally charged as racism - surely it's best not to interject without any facts?

I dunno, people should be able to speak and learn.

But what get's me, what is surely best NOT to do without any knowledge or facts, is acting like you want to sit on the fence talking about some "moral high ground" nonsense whilst actively pushing back against people trying to tell you why that attitude may not be the right way.

Say your piece, ask your questions, debate and learn. That's all cool, it's how we move forward. But don't start lecturing people who have lived through racism about how they should back down and how "this isn't the way!" as that's a huge part of why there's a problem in the first place.

 

[Heardy]

Genuinely cannot believe the amount of people championing violence and rioting.

First of all, Policemen will think it twice before lynching an innocent citizen (if being filmed). And that's only the beginning.

Ok but then what - they’re rioting against institutional racism.

My fear is the misconception amongst authorities that a young black man is violent/armed and that they need to arrest / apprehend with force. Seems to ring true when you see the level of physicality arresting a black guy compared to a white guy and that seems a common complaint.

for the protestors to then turn to violence, how does that (sadly) not do anything but enforce the stereotype / misconception that a cop will have when faced with interacting with black lads in the future?

 

[FireballXL5]

Because it implies that a choice has been made by the government to kit out the police but not that heath service. Trump is a whopper but we all know that wasn't the case. No one anticipated a global pandemic or the requirement of a specific kind of PPE. Every country in the world has had issues sourcing it and an inquiry should take place post pandemic to see what mistakes were made during procurement but that's just sensationalism.

Bingo!

 

[Ludens the Red]

And yet even with 1/10, he still has a vivid story to tell.

I don’t think he did at all. And judging by the responses to the tweet all he did was give the opposing side more ammunition.

Even people with what looks like good intentions don’t do themselves any favours if they put out rubbish like that.
Because it just kinda looks like he’s doing it for the sake of it (bandwagon jumping) and not for the cause.
If he actually gave a shit he’d know about cases where police brutality on black people was present and if he didn’t at least do some research instead and find out.

 

[Tel074]

Sancho booked for showing support for George Floyd after scoring for Dortmund.

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Maybe it was because he took his top off ? Hardly booked for showing support to Floyd haha

 

[Based Adnan]

 

[Grinner]

I give up - I genuinely can’t see how people think rioting will get results.

all I see happening are people dying or fecking up their lives if they get caught, arrested and charged.

just seen a video in Rochester Ny of an older husband and wife beaten with 2x4s for protecting their store from “protestors”.

How they will help the US government realise there is a problem if institutional racism I have no fecking idea.

Wasn't the whole damn country founded by a riot?

 

[villain]

I dunno, people should be able to speak and learn.

But what get's me, what is surely best NOT to do without any knowledge or facts, is acting like you want to sit on the fence talking about some "moral high ground" nonsense whilst actively pushing back against people trying to tell you why that attitude may not be the right way.

Say your piece, ask your questions, debate and learn. That's all cool, it's how we move forward. But don't start lecturing people who have lived through racism about how they should back down and how "this isn't the way!" as that's a huge part of why there's a problem in the first place.

Yeah thats what I meant by interject, I probably didn't make it clear.

Everyone should be open and willing to learn about a subject, even if they don't agree with it.
Asking questions and being open to learning something new without prejudice is pretty much how every child learns, yet when we're adults and it comes to learning about something in society - so many people refuse to do that, whether it's ego, defensiveness or intentional ignorance - I really don't know, but it's tiresome.

 

[christy87]

Have you heard of the phrase, 'doing the same thing over & over and expecting different results is insanity'?

It's time to try something new.

The slaves didn't free themselves over a handshake.
Haiti didn't gain independence after a cup of tea.
Civil Rights weren't given after a game of croquet etc

In 400 years America has failed to reconcile it's bloody history on it's own accord - you can't expect Black Americans to remain peaceful forever.

Quite frankly, i'm surprised it's taken this long - the way they've been treated, they should've razed the land to the ground long ago.
I would suggest you read up on the history of treatment that the slaves had to endure, plus government sanctioned initiatives such as COINTELPRO, the 1985 Philadelphia Bombing - plus dozens of other violence against black people such as the Slocum Massacre, Tulsa Race Riots, Lynchings, Chester Race riot and many more.

And with no disrespect, if you aren't aware of a topic, especially something as emotionally charged as racism - surely it's best not to interject without any facts?

It’s extremely rare for countries to gain independence without war or violence, the only one I can think of is the split of Czechoslovakia, the same goes for civil liberties, not everything in this world is solved by being nice and people need to realise that.

 

[Silva]

it takes an incredible amount of ignorance to say "but the police will treat black people as a result of the riots"

 

[sammsky1]

The thing that you are failing to see is that the people were actually dying and their lives were being destroyed cause of the crime of being born black.

People who have not been part of the oppressed society often fail to see that these types of protests is the last option. These guys have nothing to lose, the possibility of being killed, maimed or their lives being destroyed in these protests is not different to the possibility of them being killed, maimed or their life being destroyed in any day, cause some cop with a small penis decides to do so.

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/29/865261916/a-decade-of-watching-black-people-die
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...n/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database#

We also spent time creating a (very non-comprehensive) list of names of black folks killed by the police since Eric Garner's death in 2014. We wanted to learn more about each person's final moments before the police ended their lives. Here's some of what we learned:

Eric Garner had just broken up a fight, according to witness testimony.
Ezell Ford was walking in his neighborhood.
Michelle Cusseaux was changing the lock on her home's door when police arrived to take her to a mental health facility.
Tanisha Anderson was having a bad mental health episode, and her brother called 911.
Tamir Rice was playing in a park.
Natasha McKenna was having a schizophrenic episode when she was tazed in Fairfax, Va.
Walter Scott was going to an auto-parts store.
Bettie Jones answered the door to let Chicago police officers in to help her upstairs neighbor, who had called 911 to resolve a domestic dispute.
Philando Castile was driving home from dinner with his girlfriend.
Botham Jean was eating ice cream in his living room in Dallas.
Atatiana Jefferson was babysitting her nephew at home in Fort Worth, Texas.
Eric Reason was pulling into a parking spot at a local chicken and fish shop.
Dominique Clayton was sleeping in her bed.
Breonna Taylor was also asleep in her bed.
And George Floyd was at the grocery store.

 

[Redlambs]

Genuinely cannot believe the amount of people championing violence and rioting.

That's because you are now being wilfully ignorant to what's actually being championed.

 

[Heardy]

Jesus wept

??

That’s true isnt it?

The injustice is linked to the level of violence/force applied when arresting a black guy compared to a white guy?

The fact that black youths are treated worse/shot/killed is one of the clear indications of racism that is being protested about.

 

[neverdie]

Genuinely cannot believe the amount of people championing violence and rioting.




Ok but then what - they’re rioting against institutional racism.

My fear is the misconception amongst authorities that a young black man is violent/armed and that they need to arrest / apprehend with force. Seems to ring true when you see the level of physicality arresting a black guy compared to a white guy and that seems a common complaint.

for the protestors to then turn to violence, how does that (sadly) not do anything but enforce the stereotype / misconception that a cop will have when faced with interacting with black lads in the future?

I can't belive this outmoded "don't lose the moral highground" shite still exists.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Yeah it genuinely astounds me when people try to paint the founding and history of America as anything even vaguely positive. For a country as relatively young as theirs, the amount of atrocities that have been committed is nothing short of mind blowing.

On a theoretical level, it is true to some extents.

As venal and hypocritical as the founders were, you have to keep in mind that the US at the time was a grand experiment in government, one that would inspire both the French and Russian Revolutions and other popular movements for self determination and sovereignty on the whole planets. It was of course borne out of naked selfish interests of a rich landowning, slaveowning aristocracy, but when the whole world were still under the yoke of divine rights, popular democracy, limited as it was, was a positive thing. It was extraordinary for George Washington to give up his powers, twice, after the war and after his 2nd term, when there would be very little pushback against him becoming at least a Dictator for life.

Of course, this only became true with the American Civil War. The ascendancy of a railsplitting backwoods lawyer to the highest office in the land, the test of ensuring that any future transfer of power by democratic means won’t be challenged by a minority with force of arms and threats of secession, all of this culminated in by far the most devastating war in their history. And out of that conflict, the grand experiment survived, which fortified the founding myth and gave it a degree of legitimacy.

The rights and welfare of any minority, including the 4 millions African Americans under bondage, were however very much secondary, and culminated in what we see today.

 

[Jim Beam]

My fear is the misconception amongst authorities that a young black man is violent/armed and that they need to arrest / apprehend with force. Seems to ring true when you see the level of physicality arresting a black guy compared to a white guy and that seems a common complaint.

for the protestors to then turn to violence, how does that (sadly) not do anything but enforce the stereotype / misconception that a cop will have when faced with interacting with black lads in the future?

Car crash.

 

[SteveJ]

U.S. forces should not be blamed for the lawlessness and looting in Baghdad as it is a natural consequence of the transition from a dictatorship to a free country, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Friday at the Pentagon.

 

[Rado_N]

??

That’s true isnt it?

The injustice is linked to the level of violence/force applied when arresting a black guy compared to a white guy?

The fact that black youths are treated worse/shot/killed is one of the clear indications of racism that is being protested about.

I’ve just realised I misread that particular section of your post, so apologies for that.

The general gist of the rest of it was still extremely naive at best however.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

Reposting a video without additional context that’s already been posted half a dozen times does not contribute to the thread.

 

[Heardy]

I can't belive this outmoded "don't lose the moral highground" shite still exists.

how are pockets of violence actually going to achieve anything?

This needs to be a movement that everyone gets behind to force change. You want everyone /black/white/Asian/young/old all shouting at the injustice.

You’re not going to get that when the protesters resort to violence!

That's because you are now being wilfully ignorant to what's actually being championed.

How am I?? What do you expect these riots to achieve? How is setting fire to buildings going to overturn hundreds of years of institutional racism?

 

[Silva]

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[neverdie]

This needs to be a movement that everyone gets behind to force change.

An entire country rioting for the same reason seems like a united movement to me

 

[Heardy]

Car crash.

Why?

I’ve seen loads of people oppose what I’m saying instead saying peaceful protests haven't work, so riots are the solution / condoning the need for violence.

How do you think these riots are going to achieve anything?