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Protests following the killing of George Floyd
- Thread starter Abizzz
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Racist white folk have a term for those people, too.
I get that is can be and is used by those especially on Fox news as a racial dog whistle, but people are literally burning down a city! Sometimes its appropriate.
over memorial day weekend, there were 10 killings and over 30 shot in Chicago. You telling me people would be too scared to describe the perpetrators as THUGS because they think it's racist and non PC?
"over memeorial day some very angry people shot some other people who they didn't like, killing 10 and wounding 32. Police are trying to track down these "perturbed" young men to find out why they woke up wanting to kill their fellow man."
I really hate the idea that any discussion away from the central issue is irrelevant, unimportant, time wasting etc etc. People can consider multiple things you know?
Right. And besides, what's the reasoning here? That Trump draws attention away from - what? - by making us think he's racist? Oh yeah, what a great campaign strategy. It's not exactly SAF level mind-games.
giving someone as racist as potus the benefit of the doubt is ridiculous
It’s a weird hill to die on, but that has rarely stopped these people from making their completely ridiculous points.
On pretty much any other subject I would be in 100% agreement but I truly believe that denying the literal definition of a word and taking umbrage with labelling rioters and looters as "thugs" is even more ridiculous.
Okay, I'll finally bite. Judging by your previous posts and the "these people" comment I'm guessing you think I'm some kind of alt-right Trump fanboy which is absolutely hilarious. Go back and read some of my posts on previous political discussions and you'll see how far from the truth that is.
I did this and kept seeing pictures of Young Thug, Slim Thug and 2pac, along with the occasional white guy in a mugshot.
It's not appropriate because the goal is to re-center the debate around a specific ethnicity and within that ethnicity specifically young males which happens to be the main targets of racism. The reason he used that term and highlighted it is to make sure that his base remember that this is about what they consider their mortal enemies, young black men.
The reality is that the terms rioters and looters were the accurate describtions and perfectly enough. The addition and highlighting of THUGS serves a different purpose. It's like the term racaille in France, if you hear or read that term used by a politician keep in mind that it is a dog-whistle while the term could be literally correct, it's contextually loaded.
Yes. Therefore, let's follow the example of wise others, and give Trump the benefit of the doubt.
Sheesh...
I genuinely believe that Donald Trump has an IQ low enough to qualify as a learning disability. So I struggle to buy into the way he’s so often portrayed as using cunning distraction tactics when he tweets his latest word salad, while taking a shit in the White House.
On a similar note, I’m also willing to believe his choice of the word “thug” was just the first word that came to his tiny mind, rather than a carefully calibrated dog whistle. Not that it matters. We all know enough about what manner of gobshite he is, irrespective of the content of his latest salvo of tweets.
https://www.vox.com/2016/2/1/10889138/coded-language-thug-bossy
https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/commentary/thug-tupac-racism-language-reappropriation-20190417.html
https://www.npr.org/2015/04/30/403362626/the-racially-charged-meaning-behind-the-word-thug
https://www.thedailybeast.com/richard-sherman-is-right-thug-is-the-new-n-world
You’re fighting their fight for them.
I just did and it appears to have changed meaning in America in recent decades.
Barrack Obama was called out for using it during the Baltimore riots of 2015 and had to apologise.
From this side of the Atlantic it just seems stupid to lay racial undertones onto this word, but hey, if that what it is, that's what it is. Perhaps the word rioters will one day have racial undertones.
I'm a little troubled by how language evolves in this way.
Yep these things evolve and inherent in that is why words like this are so efficient for the purpose of dog whistles because enough people don’t recognise it and will think nothing of it.
There’s no issue at all with people thinking nothing of it at first glance and then having the response of “shit I didn’t even realise” when having it pointed out and explained.
To me its quibbling over semantics. As I suggested, all the footage I have seen of these "thugs" were mixed crowds, not black males and the debate will always have been around a particular ethnicity since we just saw a video of a black man being killed.
Language has evolved this way since language was conceptualised.
Are you under the impression I'm denying that "thug" has racial connotations in the states? I never denied that, I think that I actually agreed to that previously.
My point is simply that in this instance Trump's use of the word was, by the literal definition, perfectly acceptable and 100% accurate unlike his previous usage of the term when describing a (afaik) zero percent black and overwhelmingly white group of lawyers as "thugs".
To make this simple: others have patiently explained why you’re wrong. Personally, I’m past the point of patience with people as ignorant as you are. So you won’t get any other serious responses by me, just passive aggressive snark. Because honestly, the way your discussing on here doesn’t warrant anything else.
But semantics is extremely important, it's partially how and why this thread exists, that's how you develop and feed prejudices and the events that led to this thread are the fruits of "semantic". If you don't care about the meaning of words within a certain context and how narratives are built then I don't really understand why you are in this thread or quibbling about anything linked to it.
A completely valid point, particularly when considered alongside the fact that trump has referred to a predominantly white group of individuals as thugs too.
Delightful.
My thoughts exactly. He is one horrible hure of a man . Doesn't think before he types or speaks he should be allowed no where near social media at all
I’m saying that you’re refusing to accept that he’s using the word in this context for a specific reason and the fact that he’s used it in other scenarios doesn’t excuse its use here or act as evidence for it being innocent.
The capitalising if that single word when talking about protests over young black men being killed by the police is not by accident. There being white people joining the protests doesn’t change that, it’s fundamentally about the treatment of black people in America and the language used by the right in these situations is as clear as day when compared to other situations such as “good people on both sides” and the rednecks storming State Capitol buildings armed with assault rifles as “very good people”.
Remember when that guy drove a car through a crowd and killed people? Trump said there were “good people on both sides” that day.
Don’t gaslight yourself. It’s racist, he’s racist, his supporters know what he meant.
Feck the police. My country also has a problem concerning the way people in the system allow the power to go to their head and start using it for their own benefit or satisfaction. Of course it's not racially connected as it is in the US, but I definitely share the sentiment of the protesters and wish my people had the balls to finally act against the government oppression and straightforward criminal behaviour.
I feel like he's using it for a very specific reason. That reason being it's literally the definition of the word. Like I asked you at the very beginning, what other would could he have used? I'd appreciate if you answer this.
The reason his verbiage regarding rednecks storming capitol buildings differs from this situation is that he is politically aligned with those groups rather than simply because he shares a skin tone with them which is proven by his previous use of "thugs" directed at a majority white group.
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I'm here because a police officer possibly choked to death a black man who clearly said "he could not breath"
We don't know why the officer killed this man. Some recent news may suggest they may have known each other. We'll find out more soon.
I feel you are looking into that aspect waaay too deep. A bunch of people were acting like thugs and were called out on it. See the people attacking the wheelchair lady? they protesters to you?
Yea you’re right there’s absolutely no other word he could have used in the context.
I would agree with you if that tweet had no context behind it. But that tweet came from a racist president, trying to appease his racist base, supporting arguably a racist group (the cops, at least a good bunch of them), in a protest involving majority black people. Fitting the literal definition of a word doesn't mean it can't be racist and be used as a dog whistle esp. when the word is specifically capitalized.
Rah rah #Murica types getting so upset about them burning the police precinct down seem to forget that the Sons of Liberty that they idolize so much literally burned down government buildings over taxes.
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It’s bizarre that so many of them justify the owning of guns on the basis that a well armed populace is essential in case they ever need to fight back against an oppressive state apparatus, only to lose their shit when a few poor people break some windows to achieve the same goal.
And you are clearly not looking deep enough, it's not as if it was an isolated incident. As for your last question, they are rioters that's the actual definition and it's not a positive term, while I understand the context and see how people could become violent I condemn it because it's going to be used against them even though the sources of the riots/protests are legitimate.
And I will insist on term riot/rioters, these people are acting violently in the context of a protest, they are not thugs but rioters. If they acted violently outside of the context of a protest the term thug could have been relevant, if it was describe criminals in the sense that it is their way of life, but it's not and it's even worse when you know how it's used within Trump's political base.
They only care about the rights of white people.
Hell of a coincidence.
Andrew Karre said: