I know it isn't meant solely for people of color, I'm not sure how I feel about others getting involved during the pandemic. On one end I like that people are supportive of people of color and their plight for justice and change. On the other there is obviously a pandemic going and it will cost lives and they are risking the people they are around.
Protests following the killing of George Floyd
- Thread starter Abizzz
- Start date
I agree and I just gave you a list of things accomplished which you straight up ignored that people protesting have managed to achieve and are achieving and will achieve.
There are so many things happening beyond statue toppling and violence.
"The perception of something being done, when nothing is being done"
To be fair that video is an initiative for NAACP and links to donation to them and other organisations
https://itakeresponsibility.org/get...nizations?for=not-being-inclusive&from=pledge
https://itakeresponsibility.org/get...nizations?for=not-being-inclusive&from=pledge
Have a watch of some of the videos here:1. Police using violent force with absolutely no reason to do it so so fecking rare that you can count the cases using your hand fingers. This shitting on cops is unbelievable really, nobody notices how millions of times per day cops do a good job but if some idiot cop makes a bad decision and especially if a black person is a victim, scandal is inevitable. Propaganda against police is astonishing.
2. To me it's just a bit ironic that for such an important movement you would choose a face of a criminal as your flag. That's only me I guess.
3. Yea I would definitely tell firemen to focus on the houses that are completely fine. Fecking hellI don't disagree with your point, I just disagree with how that phrase somehow makes people racist.
If you can go through those and still count them on your fingers you must live near Chernobyl.
If you don't know them, they're not going the Ta-Nehisi Coates way
Yeah I think it raises the awareness of the issue, but I think that had already been more than achieved with the events in america and the initial reaction here. I'm not sure throwing a statue of some bloke into the sea and turning the main focus into which statues we should throw away really does much other than distract from the actual problem. It's offering people an easy solution or way to show that they care, but without really having to do or change anything. People will take that for exactly the reasons you have said.
I agree with the general point though and I think that's part of the problem here. People are looking for a quick or easy solution and there really isn't one. Changes for the better have actually been happening for quite a long while but there is also a long way still to go, and I think it's important to acknowledge both of those things...in the past year or so we've seen establishments like Oxford University forced to change their practices to accept more ethnic minority students or students from poorer backrounds. People like Raheem Sterling and Marcus Rashford be held up as role models to younger people and the media actually being called out for negative stereotyping. What I've seen in my workplace is younger people are much more willing to stand up with you if you confront a racist remark or opinion, or often they'll be the one to stand up and say something. In 10 years some of those will be managers or in senior roles where they also have more influence. A lot of people from say 30 or over might not be racist but also don't want to rock the boat...there's either too much for them to lose or they just don't see it as a necessary conflict.
There's a perception that racism is almost like flicking a switch at the moment where tensions are high, and I think that's dangerous and could actually be counter productive. Smearing the police, belittling the suffering the pandemic has caused for some people, throwing "racist" around like it's a playground insult...tell someone they are something enough times and eventually all you do is convince them you're right.
Racism is a deep routed and complicated problem and trying to eradicate it is more like planting a tree and constantly making sure it has the right conditions to grow. There's nothing wrong with trying to speed the process up in any way that's possible, but we do have to be a bit careful how we do it.
Ok, another perspective.
I remember having to go to a friend's house because her neighbour had gone mental and smashed up her garden and was trying to force his way into her house. She's black and has quite a strong african accent. When she phoned the police (and I know this as I was listening to the call) the person who answered was rude and obnoxious to her, and refused to help. I then phoned them and they immediately agreed to send someone out...now the only difference I can see is that I either didn't sound like a black person or didn't sound like a woman. That to me is discrimination.
On the other hand, the policeman who turned up...his first and only concern was to make sure my friend was ok. She was the first person he spoke to. He spent ages reassuring her, giving her advice. He gave her a direct contact in case there was any further trouble and gave her the option of taking the man into custody so she would feel safe for the evening. Is it fair to tar him with racism because another member of the police behaved in a racist way?
As long as there is racism there will be racist police, just as there will be racist postmen, racist office workers, racist random drunk sitting on a bench, etc. The police have an authorative job so abuse of power will also always be a problem...but you aren't going to solve racism by attacking the police.
I wouldn't entertain the idea that raciallly motivated police brutality doesn't happen, or suggest how rare it is or isn't...because even without the video evidence it's illogical to think it doesn't happen quite regularly, but it is also important to realise it's a product of racism rather than the cause, and that actually most police probably aren't racist.
Admittedly can't say the same for America simply because it's such a large place and parts of it are so behind that it wouldn't shock me if joining the police and joining the KKK are still basically the same thing.
Fair points... but I was specifically responding to the sentence 'Police using violent force with absolutely no reason to do it so so fecking rare that you can count the cases using your hand fingers'.
Totally agree that not all police are bad people, or racist, or have a worrying enjoyment of violence. Some certainly do though, and the problem in America seems to be they can get away with it way too easily.
You didn't give me a list. Unless I am confusing you with someone else you gave me about two examples which I have acknowledged, and which also don't address the problem of the fact they are largely going unseen in favour of riling up people against the police and historical monuments. It is ridiculous to suggest that what ends up being the focus of attention isn't a factor in a likely outcome.
Yeah I do agree...I was more picking your post to make a general point than trying to argue with you.
The problem is it's a job that will naturally attract certain types of people...and more so in parts of america where that part of the job almost seems to be glorified. The problem is two fold there really. There's a racism problem and a policing problem and the two are obviously also linked.
Its on here which mentions community investment, legislative changes, mental health, risk assessment for BAME staff, representation in literature, long term commitments
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/pro...of-george-floyd.454902/page-162#post-25610561
I think what this movement is doing beyond what's making the headlines and the impact it will have, for the better, is being ignored. Petitions are being signed, companies are taking notice, conversations are being had, donations being made, lawmakers reaching out to grassroots and vice versa, progressive parties taking notice and incorporating into their platforms ideas from ethnic minority groups etc etc.
Statue of black poet Alfred Fagon feared attacked with bleach in Bristol
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-fagon-feared-attacked-with-bleach-in-bristol
Most likely retaliation for the Colston statue.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-fagon-feared-attacked-with-bleach-in-bristol
Most likely retaliation for the Colston statue.
They make some good points but it's quite funny watching conservative intellectuals make sweeping generalizations and red herrings. Weird that guys like these sound like Candance Owens.
Unless your a raging socialist you shouldnt be supporting the 'black lives matter' uk movement
Why's that then?
Funny how they sweep the recent police attacks against the protesters under the rug.
It's in thier mission statement to "bring down capitalism"
My point was more that you're arc from banging on about wanting to leave the house during lockdown and why lockdown is dangerous to now outrage over people leaving their houses to protest racism is well quite something(Mostly because you come across as a nice liberal minded person).
What I will say is that you underestimate the scale of racism in the UK. Here's you in another thread this week
Now does this make you a racist well no but I do think it contributes to the negative way you see the protests.
You're unknowingly just doing the white moderate shtick that King talked about.
"I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."
Also at least in the US these protests have resulted in the favorability ratings of the BLM movement going up by about 20 points and if the protesters didn't remove and dump that statue in the sea then various others wouldn't have been removed this week, it's actually a great example of direct action working. So you're dystopian future hasn't come true.
In my view there's two things people can do if they have concerns about way these protests are heading which is firstly log off and leave the house. If you really do believe you have any sort of answer then go to the protests and organize because otherwise all you're doing is just larping on the internet. Or secondly (and this what prompted my response in the first place )
Produce a better level of criticism because it's as dull as lager piss to read the cynical posts you've produced in this thread so far. A man was murdered by a police officer which resulted in world wide protests and a violent response from the global superpower against its own citizens(All of this during the biggest pandemic since the Spanish flu)and this is the best you've got
It's easy to see why a poster on here would think you might be a bit racist. Maybe take some time out and actual engage with subject at hand. Chances are you will gain a better understanding of the world.
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Do you believe only raging socialists should support Martin Luther King too?
So you feel that capitalism and anti-racism are incompatible?
Protesting against racism and capitalism... sounds pretty good to me!
Well I hope you are right, as I said to @Dante I think changes for the better are happening and were already happening, and it's important to acknowledge that as well as acknowledge how far there still is to go. Definitely not denying there are people out there trying to do the right things. I just wish the focus would be on that.
The solution involves getting everyone on the same page and I think once we get there then there's a real chance, as people will feel more empowered to do what is right in day to day life, rather than only when it's a popular topic.
Sorry I fail to see the logic here with the question? I suspect its a loaded one but to satisfy you Il answer, obviously no..
Haha yep fair play!
Maybe take some time out to read the rest of my posts instead of being patronising.
The worst thing about this forum is how people just presume everyone who disagrees with them is uneducated and stupid.
Obviously not
Wondered why Starbucks was trending then looked at the hashtag:
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He was also an anti-capitalist.
Cool I didn't know that, changes absolutely nothing in what I'm trying to say, did he set up a campaign to bring down capitalism?
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Not all police are bad people, the same way not all Catholic priests are kid molesters. Many decent people in both professions. However the institution itself can be fecked, such that good people who enter are corrupted/complicit.
The sooner people understand racism not being individual acts but being a systemic phenom, the sooner these more "radical" solutions sound actually common sense
Yeah he was, then he got shot in Memphis
Prove it.
Seems perfectly reasonable to me and i'd be perfectly happy to support that statement but cant find a single reference to it on the Black Lives Matter website or anywhere else.
Wikipedia lists their aims as
"In 2016, Black Lives Matter and a coalition of 60 organizations affiliated with BLM called for decarceration in the United States, reparations for slavery in the United States, an end to mass surveillance, investment in public education, not incarceration, and community control of the police: empowering residents in communities of color to hire and fire police officers and issue subpoenas, decide disciplinary consequences and exercise control over city funding of police.[38][39]"
I'm sure one (or many) of their supporters would list it as an aim but you take any vaguely left leaning group and you'll find supporters of that statement there too. So ... yeah. Prove it.
Ipswich police officers accuse black woman of 'jumping on bandwagon'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-52998661
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-52998661
Ah, feck. I am done with this thread.
I mean, it kind of does. You said we shouldn't be supporting BLM UK unless we're raging socialists because they're campaigning to bring down capitalism. So, using that logic, we shouldn't support Martin Luther King either, as he was a socialist and anti-capitalist.