No what I am saying is Mourinho still concentrates on more defence than offence. We were 2nd in conceding least amount of goals last season and only scored 68. Why because he wanted midfielders and even forwards backtracking all the time. He doesn't allow players the chance to express themselves and can be too cautious. He wants everyone back behind the ball when we go a goal up and have been caught on many occasions doing this. Yes we escaped a few times last season, but this is not the kind of football the fans want to see. It is costing fans a lot of hard earned money to travel to look at this kind of football. Old Trafford used to be feared by other teams but not any more. The Stats show NOW that when we play, we have least amount of possession most games because of the way Mourinho wants his teams to play. To be honest mate, I don't think that fans like this way, and other teams feel they can get something from here. Most clubs are having a go at us now because they are let.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
How respectful was Mourinho when he called Wenger a specialist in failure for winning the same number of PL titles as him 
Only because they get more out of what they have.
Their first 11 does not rival City's. No chance. You're overrating their team. Which goes to show what a good job Pochettino is doing.
Interestingly, Mark Clattenburg made a comment about how different Mourinho was to handle after his stint at Inter and Madrid.
I don't see how this is on Mourinho. Did you see the absolutely valid points he made earlier in the same press conference? They just want to bait him, is all. Disguisting. We should ban the feckers, and teach them a lesson.
What is outdated about defending ? I may be very wrong here but I'd say back in the 60's, 70's and 80's there were more goals scored than there is nowadays so, by definition, coaches are coaching more pragmatically or attackers aren't as good as they were
Agree.
It’s like the media haven’t seen football prior to the start of last season. Teams have been passing and moving the ball around like City do now for decades. At the minute they’re the best of a fairly poor bunch of top sides but I think particularly the Liverpool side of the early 80’s would have beaten City 8 times out of 10. I mention Liverpool because that 80’s side was comparable in style to the present day City but plenty of our sides under Fergie would have been too strong for City.
He's the manager of Manchester United. He should be professional enough to not react like this. Yet he does, which tells me he's insecure and has a constant need to remind people of his past achievements.
It's interesting that you're ignoring the fact that those valid points(which weren't wrong) essentially amount to saying "my players are not good enough". 3 games into the season and he has zero trust in his players. That's a pretty big problem...
It may sound crazy but, his relationship with the Italian and Spanish press was much worse than this.
He started to lose his rag when one of the journalists reminded him of the exodus after the 3rd goal went in. As a response to Jose saying the supporters applauded the players off the field and by doing so showed their appreciation to his team for the performance, and that they are the best judges. My own perception from sitting at home watching was a mass exodus after the 3rd goal went in (going off what the match commentator said) and the small group of fans who applauded him after the final whistle which you could see on the TV screen.
If he's implying the fans are contented losing 3-0 at home at OT, whether its Spurs, City or Barcelona, then he's futher gone than I thought.
I'm going with what the journalist said.
Don't even agree with him that we could have been 3-0 upp going into the break. Seen the same pattern so many times before when we come out pressing and playing on the front foot and we get nothing out of it. They go in at half time and you think we'll be fecked in the 2nd half. Why? because the players have given everything and you know they won't be able to keep the pressure on, neither mentally nor physically. Why? because we haven't got the quality in the team. We dont have an Eriksen who can deliver that final all important pass, or a Kane who is clinical in front of goal etc. You can press all day long but if you don't have quality in the right places the opposition will just soak it up and a team like Spurs will come out in the 2nd half and batter you.
If he's implying the fans are contented losing 3-0 at home at OT, whether its Spurs, City or Barcelona, then he's futher gone than I thought.
I'm going with what the journalist said.
Don't even agree with him that we could have been 3-0 upp going into the break. Seen the same pattern so many times before when we come out pressing and playing on the front foot and we get nothing out of it. They go in at half time and you think we'll be fecked in the 2nd half. Why? because the players have given everything and you know they won't be able to keep the pressure on, neither mentally nor physically. Why? because we haven't got the quality in the team. We dont have an Eriksen who can deliver that final all important pass, or a Kane who is clinical in front of goal etc. You can press all day long but if you don't have quality in the right places the opposition will just soak it up and a team like Spurs will come out in the 2nd half and batter you.
And this is why a team should never lose games because defeats tend produce the most ridiculous of comments.
With respect, Forest beat Malmo and Hamburg to win the European Cup when it was a straight knock out competition. Paisley did it against Borussia Monchengladbach, Brugge and Real Madrid, again, when it was a straight knockout competition. I suspect it was easier to win in those days, the hardest bit being that you had to be Champions of your domestic league to actually be in the competition in the first place (much better in my view). As for our ‘99 team, they’d give any current or past team a game.
He's always used the press for his own ends. When you play with that lot, it always comes back to bite you. The build you up but can't wait to tear you down.
That's just life. Best thing is to be low keyed with the press and get on with your job.
It's crazy how much he needs the press to praise him in order to feel validated. He may have more money than he knows what to do with it and his many achievements, but that's not enough. He must be adored at all times. As I said in another thread, if he wasn't such an awful person, I would feel great sympathy for him.
That's just life. Best thing is to be low keyed with the press and get on with your job.
It's crazy how much he needs the press to praise him in order to feel validated. He may have more money than he knows what to do with it and his many achievements, but that's not enough. He must be adored at all times. As I said in another thread, if he wasn't such an awful person, I would feel great sympathy for him.
Tripper is a great example of player development. Brought from Burnley for peanuts, now guys on here are telling us he is a dead cert to play in our team. If only Shaw, Rashford, Bailly and Martial could have that trajectory... That's four players.
As a philosopher once said: "If I thought the bloke next door was a twit, I wouldn't be bothered if he thought I was a twit."
PS In that scenario, bloke next door=the media; philosopher=Jose. By which I mean that Jose shouldn't care about gaining the approval of people he considers to be twits.
Stevie you are full of wisdom.
But yeah, it's true.
I find it a terrible way to live though, constantly needing to be told how great you are. Quite sad actually.
I'm certainly full of something.
Player improvement huh. What a strange concept that is. You mean it actually is possible to work with the players you have and improve them? I know Sarri mentioned something about coaching the players you have, but I didn’t think it was actually a thing. I thought the only way to improve a team is to sign other players
Just heard the audio clip, hilarious stuff! Sir Bobby isn't impressed.
I completely agree. For someone who has been so successful he is amazingly insecure.
I think it's a major reason he struggles to stay in a role long term. When things start to go wrong and the criticism starts coming his way, he loses his mind. The meltdown is coming and it won't end well.
He's also a bit self destructive to be fair. I can't find the interview, don't remember who he did it with, but he said something about when things are fine (using my words here), he has to find something to motivate him so he creates some kind of 'situation'. What I took from that was in order to keep his intensities level up, he needed, for want of a better word, drama.
This to me is probably one of the major reasons why he can't do long term. If you're creating drama to motivate yourself, then it probably means you're pissing off people around you. Eventually it gets tiring for everyone else and of course, his tenure becomes untenable.
If we were not the current recipients of his 'drama', I would find him a fascinating 'subject'.
Would say in Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Eriksen and Kane in particular, they have 4 players who are up there in top 10 in their position in the league.
The rest are all good players, but the type of players who are performing because of Poch's management. I don't think Dier, Alli, Dembele, Trippier and Lucas are exceptionally gifted players who would perform at this level if they played for us for example, but the above 4 are probably capable of improving us because they genuinely are very competent individuals at their worst.
I don't know what is he expecting from the press exactly?
I think you underestimate how frustrating it must be to have to speak to these guys multiple times per week, knowing they've been twisting your words and knowing they have agenda. Mourinho is human and I think he handles them well, I'd be going nuts at the scumbags, they were giggling in the last press conference like a bunch of kids for goodness sake. Time for the club to close ranks, take the financial hit of not showing up to pressers and see how the media sell their papers then....I'll tell you how, they'll start probing and pushing Klopp's buttons after a loss, or go on an anti Emery drive. They need drama and controversy to survive, take it away and they'll flock somewhere else like flies to a fresh turd.
Ok, but Madrid were still a huge club back then and the Italian teams were fantastically drilled at European competition in that era. I’d argue that winning it back then was more worthy because one mistake and you could be out. The CL groups gives teams a reprieve if they deliver a below par performance. The likes of Malmo, Hamburg etc were clearly decent teams in that era to have reached a final. Kevin Keegan who was the poster boy of English football at the time signed for Hamburg so they weren’t just some hillbillies from the German lower leagues.
Much to my dislike, Jose ain't going anywhere. This reference to the past is ridiculous and embarassing, he really needs to move forward. History does not count for anything if you cannot create a future. Jose needs to swallow his pride and wipe the slate clean, enough with these outbursts because he is turning United into a joke.
Enough with the hatred, I'm really trying to pick out positives and I would like nothing more for him to really prove everyone wrong and blow the league away this year. He is probably losing more sleep than any fan or player, he is a guy who really cares and I do respect him for that. He has won a bunch of trophies and I respect him for that too but he needs to adapt his style now. If we played like we did in the first 40 mins against spurs, i would be happy. Lukaku let Jose down massively that day, if he scored his 2 chances, it is a different game in the 2nd half. The rest of the team also let him down by dropping there energy levels and silly mistakes cost us hugely. Saying that, i would happily lose a few if it meant Jose is trying to reinvent our style and identity with what we saw in that first half. If he did that, he earns my total respect and backing. As a group of fans we have no choice but to fully back him and pray he turns this around. EW is not goimg to sack him anytime soon.
Enough with the hatred, I'm really trying to pick out positives and I would like nothing more for him to really prove everyone wrong and blow the league away this year. He is probably losing more sleep than any fan or player, he is a guy who really cares and I do respect him for that. He has won a bunch of trophies and I respect him for that too but he needs to adapt his style now. If we played like we did in the first 40 mins against spurs, i would be happy. Lukaku let Jose down massively that day, if he scored his 2 chances, it is a different game in the 2nd half. The rest of the team also let him down by dropping there energy levels and silly mistakes cost us hugely. Saying that, i would happily lose a few if it meant Jose is trying to reinvent our style and identity with what we saw in that first half. If he did that, he earns my total respect and backing. As a group of fans we have no choice but to fully back him and pray he turns this around. EW is not goimg to sack him anytime soon.
I believe that people over rate two things at our club currently:
• the actual standard of our playing squad
• the amount of influence a manager has on turning shit into gold through tactics (can’t see a team above about 9th that any of Mata, Fellaini, Jones, Shaw, Rojo, Darmian, Young or Valencia would get in the first 11 for, all regularly turning out for us).
None of them were Jose signings and unfortunately the board haven’t backed him fully enough in implementing the changes he wanted and are expecting him to do some sort of miracle with shite he never signed and wouldn’t have signed and doesn’t want. Couldn’t even shift that pile of turd in the summer.
And with the changed transfer markets, mid table premier league clubs can now spend big and sign players in the same bracket we want to, the gap between us and them is closing up. In some imstances they sign our targets (everton with Mina). in the old days, we spent 33m on Rio and 28 on Veron when that money was unheard of. Now that west ham spend 45mil on a winger where does that leave us in terms of how much we need to spend to keep ahead?
I think Mourinho will go soon he basically just got the dreaded ‘vote of confidence’, and has lost he dressing room in my opinion, but have to think, None of these players are suddenly going to Be amazing under a new manager.
We will still have a squad of average or poor players with little sell on value, Saw so many posts about how our squad is way better than Tottenham’s.
Deluded. I’d take their entire back 4 over ours or even their second choice one has Aurier, Sanchez and Davies. Kane is better than Lukaku, Alli than Fred, Moura is a RW player so automatically goes in.
If pulling on a Man Utd shirt automatically makes you amazing then why am I shit when I have a kick about in mine? We were used to great players and strong squads in the past but a large portion of what we have atm is trash and too many don’t see it.
By the logic of many fans on this forum if it’s all about the manager then is it fair to say that back in 2008 if SAF had managed Middlesbrough that season not Man Utd then Middlesbrough would have won the league not got relegated??????
• the actual standard of our playing squad
• the amount of influence a manager has on turning shit into gold through tactics (can’t see a team above about 9th that any of Mata, Fellaini, Jones, Shaw, Rojo, Darmian, Young or Valencia would get in the first 11 for, all regularly turning out for us).
None of them were Jose signings and unfortunately the board haven’t backed him fully enough in implementing the changes he wanted and are expecting him to do some sort of miracle with shite he never signed and wouldn’t have signed and doesn’t want. Couldn’t even shift that pile of turd in the summer.
And with the changed transfer markets, mid table premier league clubs can now spend big and sign players in the same bracket we want to, the gap between us and them is closing up. In some imstances they sign our targets (everton with Mina). in the old days, we spent 33m on Rio and 28 on Veron when that money was unheard of. Now that west ham spend 45mil on a winger where does that leave us in terms of how much we need to spend to keep ahead?
I think Mourinho will go soon he basically just got the dreaded ‘vote of confidence’, and has lost he dressing room in my opinion, but have to think, None of these players are suddenly going to Be amazing under a new manager.
We will still have a squad of average or poor players with little sell on value, Saw so many posts about how our squad is way better than Tottenham’s.
Deluded. I’d take their entire back 4 over ours or even their second choice one has Aurier, Sanchez and Davies. Kane is better than Lukaku, Alli than Fred, Moura is a RW player so automatically goes in.
If pulling on a Man Utd shirt automatically makes you amazing then why am I shit when I have a kick about in mine? We were used to great players and strong squads in the past but a large portion of what we have atm is trash and too many don’t see it.
By the logic of many fans on this forum if it’s all about the manager then is it fair to say that back in 2008 if SAF had managed Middlesbrough that season not Man Utd then Middlesbrough would have won the league not got relegated??????
As much as Jose is at fault for inviting most of the media pressure, I don't think there is any "Melt Down" here. At least not yet.
Jose knows the only way he is getting fired this season is if he doesn't start winning games. Doesn't matter if the press or the fans love you, if you don't win games you are OUT. It's true for all the big managers.
And to win games, he needs his players to believe that his system can win games on the pitch. Irrespective of they like him or not, he can't have his players doubting his plans now. If this series of morale crushing defeats continues, even the most loyal player in the dressing room will start to doubt the managers plan to win games. When that happens, all is truly lost. There is no coming back from it.
In some ways Jose's emotional ego burst about "R-E-S-P-E-C-T" and his arrogance in front of the Camera was very much needed. Most of the non-performing key players in his team are mentally immature, weak young players. These press interviews are bound to impact their morale. When they see him not wilting under the media pressure, it conveys a strong message to them - "I am the fecking BOSS". Instead, if he were to do a Hodgson/Mclaren and be decent about things, after all the agitation and name calling in the summer, he will appear to be weak and lose the rebels in the dressing room who think they know better.
So in my opinion - The egoistic, arrogant Jose is the best chance he got to turn this around, hopefully.
Jose knows the only way he is getting fired this season is if he doesn't start winning games. Doesn't matter if the press or the fans love you, if you don't win games you are OUT. It's true for all the big managers.
And to win games, he needs his players to believe that his system can win games on the pitch. Irrespective of they like him or not, he can't have his players doubting his plans now. If this series of morale crushing defeats continues, even the most loyal player in the dressing room will start to doubt the managers plan to win games. When that happens, all is truly lost. There is no coming back from it.
In some ways Jose's emotional ego burst about "R-E-S-P-E-C-T" and his arrogance in front of the Camera was very much needed. Most of the non-performing key players in his team are mentally immature, weak young players. These press interviews are bound to impact their morale. When they see him not wilting under the media pressure, it conveys a strong message to them - "I am the fecking BOSS". Instead, if he were to do a Hodgson/Mclaren and be decent about things, after all the agitation and name calling in the summer, he will appear to be weak and lose the rebels in the dressing room who think they know better.
So in my opinion - The egoistic, arrogant Jose is the best chance he got to turn this around, hopefully.
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Write what you want about me, just don't make lies up and bad mouth the players..
Well he's certainly got EVERYONE talking about him and laying off a team low on confidence.
Well he's certainly got EVERYONE talking about him and laying off a team low on confidence.
This, also he poked Tito Vilanova in the eye and not to mention whole Eva Carneiro incident.How respectful was Mourinho when he called Wenger a specialist in failure for winning the same number of PL titles as him
Wenger had 15 more seasons....How respectful was Mourinho when he called Wenger a specialist in failure for winning the same number of PL titles as him
What’s your point? Mourinho is the last person in football who should ever be talking about respect. From the time he burst onto the scene, José was arguably the most disrespectful manager around. The only person he ever showed any modicum of respect to was SAF. Have you forgotten the eye gouging etc. We can discuss Mourinho’s performance until the end of time and still not find middle ground, but it’s impossible for anyone to say that he hasn’t always been a disrespectful character.
Mourinho is a bit of a prick when he loses. And sometimes when he wins. He is a bit of a prick.
Would stick with him right now though.
Would stick with him right now though.
I still hope he succeeds, but as someone who knows a lot more than I do once said 'if you're defending yourself, you're losing..,,'
You don't think a sturdy Dembele is better than Matic?
First thing I thought of when I saw this thread.
He may be physically stronger and I give that to him but that's about it.
Matic is a more refined, technical, role-understanding and experienced player. He oozes class and great composure on the ball, has a great pass on him and scores screamers as well. His positional awareness is magnificent. He is a class above Dembele.
Dembele may have better drive on the ball but is a lot of times positionally suspect and gets caught out often.