He's the best right back in the league.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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There are still flaws in Rafael's defensive game that I'd like to see him iron out. Mainly, his positioning is a bit suspect and he tends to get caught out. On the flip side he's a very good 1v1 defender more often than not.
But in general, most full backs these days are better going forward (Shaw seems to be an exception) so his odd defensive feck up doesn't bother me. As long as he can stay fit I wouldn't swap him for any other RB in the league.
But in general, most full backs these days are better going forward (Shaw seems to be an exception) so his odd defensive feck up doesn't bother me. As long as he can stay fit I wouldn't swap him for any other RB in the league.
Despite Coleman not being British, obviously.
He isn't even close to Zabaleta.
Well put. Also if you watch the video someone posted a few pages back of the WHU game, you can both sides of his game. First half destroyed them down our right side. Second half, even before Rooneys red card, we had started sluggish, he showed his defensive side. The second half he defended really well and also stepped up to control the defence a bit more. Offering words of advice to Rojo and McNair. Rafael is an easy target for United and non-united fans as someone else pointed out, going back the munich incident. the whole reckless tag seems to have stuck. Which is a joke when you think how long ago it was now. Yeah, he still has to work on his defensive responsibilities but with the exception of last season, he has improved with every season.
Exactly. Everton concede just as many goals as us, or there or there abouts, and that's with a fitter, more settled back four, one that plays together with regularity. I rate Coleman highly, but he will make errors in that back line, but seldom will they receive much coverage.
Even Zabaleta who is mentioned just above, another very good player, he's actually made a fair few errors over the past 12 months, also in high profile matches. His disciplinary record, albeit I could well be wrong here, is probably worse than Rafael's, too, given this is an apparent issue he has.
The media love-in extends to our Irish adopted Brits also.
It's fair enough not to rate Coleman or to prefer Rafael (I think he has more potential than Coleman too) but some of the points made against Coleman on the last page make absolutely no sense.
A) "Coleman is overrated because he is British" - Despite him not actually being British.
B) "It's just the Irish posters who rate Coleman this much" - Despite Coleman being named in the PFA team of the year last season by his (non-Irish) peers.
C) "I seriously don't think the Everton fans think this highly of Coleman." - Despite them naming him their player of the season last year.
D) "Rafael is better/on par with Coleman offensively" - Despite Coleman scoring more goals last season than Rafael has managed in his entire career thus far. Still, you could argue that Everton set up in a way that gets more out of their fullbacks offensively but that then contradicts...
E) "Coleman is more protected because Everton don't play offensive football like United" - You can't have it both ways. Everton either play as offensively as us (which means Coleman isn't any more protected than Rafael) or they play more defensively (which makes Coleman's effectiveness going forward even more impressive).
Even ignoring the comparison to Coleman though, I still think Rafael is overrated on the caf sometimes. He's played three games this season (including one in which he was criticized by his manager for giving away a penalty) and suddenly "he's the best right back in the league". I also note that it's now accepted as fact that Rafael was the best RB in the league the season before last despite Zabaleta actually being at least as good that year.
As I say, I like Rafael and don't see the point in signing another first choice RB (unless his fitness problems continue) but he still has an awful lot to prove before he can be regarded as the best RB in the league. Being able to stay fit would be a good start.
A) "Coleman is overrated because he is British" - Despite him not actually being British.
B) "It's just the Irish posters who rate Coleman this much" - Despite Coleman being named in the PFA team of the year last season by his (non-Irish) peers.
C) "I seriously don't think the Everton fans think this highly of Coleman." - Despite them naming him their player of the season last year.
D) "Rafael is better/on par with Coleman offensively" - Despite Coleman scoring more goals last season than Rafael has managed in his entire career thus far. Still, you could argue that Everton set up in a way that gets more out of their fullbacks offensively but that then contradicts...
E) "Coleman is more protected because Everton don't play offensive football like United" - You can't have it both ways. Everton either play as offensively as us (which means Coleman isn't any more protected than Rafael) or they play more defensively (which makes Coleman's effectiveness going forward even more impressive).
Even ignoring the comparison to Coleman though, I still think Rafael is overrated on the caf sometimes. He's played three games this season (including one in which he was criticized by his manager for giving away a penalty) and suddenly "he's the best right back in the league". I also note that it's now accepted as fact that Rafael was the best RB in the league the season before last despite Zabaleta actually being at least as good that year.
As I say, I like Rafael and don't see the point in signing another first choice RB (unless his fitness problems continue) but he still has an awful lot to prove before he can be regarded as the best RB in the league. Being able to stay fit would be a good start.
This is counter balanced on the caf by the number of people who think only Irish people rate Irish players.
He was getting close to that level a couple of seasons ago, but Zabaleta is so consistent.
Quite possibly true on the Cafe, but in the general media player's like Rafael have to do much more to be seen as a solid defender vs a player like Coleman. Likewise they also don't get the sympathy for injuries stalling their progress or breaking a run of good form.
I'd say a prime example is Rafael vs Gibbs. The general media story line is that Gibbs is a very solid defender who is just unfortunate that injuries have prevented him from being the next Ashley Cole (Talksport for instance being a prime culprit for this). Whereas Rafael hasn't matured in 6 years and is still the same rash 18 year old that can't be trusted. In reality Rafael has done more to prove he has made the step up from talented youngster to quality professional and is still a year younger. Both obviously have been hampered similarly by injuries (playing 161 vs 151 games in 7 seasons), but the media thinking is that one has been hampered by injuries, the other by a poor/rash mentality and/or immaturity.
An example in the Daily Fail: Yes, Mark Clattenburg should have blown the whistle when Vardy shoved Rafael to the ground. But how foolish of Rafael to retaliate inside the 18-yard box.
If that were Coleman or Gibbs I'd assert that the scrutiny would be on Vardy fouling and then diving or the referee for making 2 dreadful errors, as the media love a good reffing balls up or diving scandal. Focusing on a "retaliation" by the defender is bizarre given what actually happened.
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A) British, Irish, who cares?
B) Rafael was injured all of last season and nobody said Coleman is a bad player
C) Good for Coeman
D and E) Coleman had a great year last year, but Rafael had one better the previous year
The point we're trying to make is, you are trying to tell us that Rafael is overrated on the caf although he was the best RB on the league year before last and he had injury troubles last year, while Coleman had a great year last season. They have one good season each, but Rafael has played for almost 5 years for us at Man Utd, winning a lot of trophies. That sort of consistency can't be compared to Coleman's one season, yet however, according to some of you here, Coleman somehow is a better player and Rafael has much to prove and overrated.
The reason why everybody says Irish posters rate Coleman is because this Coleman overrating started mainly from a few vocal posters from Ireland
Nah, but seriously Coleman is every bit as good as Rafael, and not injury prone. Therefore he's the better player, it's an absolutely fair assessment, and you all know it.
No, not really. I like you Cunto, but unfortunately I don't agree with you. Breaks my heart
In your opinion Rafael's season was better than Coleman's. I'm fairly sure most neutrals would disagree. That's what irks me about the "Irish posters overrate Coleman" argument. That would only make sense if Coleman wasn't generally rated more than Rafael by non-Irish people too, but he is. The caf is literally the only place I've seen anyone make this point as most neutrals happily accept that Coleman is better. That doesn't mean they're necessarily right but it does mean it's not just an Irish thing. It's a weird argument to make.
I love Rafa but he is not the best right back in the league.
It is arguable that in '12/13 he was the best rb in the league along with Zabaleta.
Zabaleta and Coleman are better at this present moment however. Certainly has the potential to be the best right back in the league once again if he consistently performs and stays clear of injury.
It is arguable that in '12/13 he was the best rb in the league along with Zabaleta.
Zabaleta and Coleman are better at this present moment however. Certainly has the potential to be the best right back in the league once again if he consistently performs and stays clear of injury.
Any chance he'll be given the armband on Sunday? He's been here for six years and counting.
Exactly right imo. Rafael has the potential to be better than either Zabaleta or Coleman and if he can stay fit he'll probably prove that. He just isn't better than them now.
Neutral fans also think De Gea is worse than Mignolet, that anyone's better than Rooney, Ander Herrera's shit and don't consider us one of the biggest clubs in the world.
Fletcher if he plays. Otherwise it'll probably go to van Persie. Should be Rafael, though.
I'd like to see Rafael get it and see if he takes up a better role at organising the defence if there's anyone left to play in it.
Anderson has been here longer but I don't think anyone will call for him to get the armband.
Some people just aren't leadership material. Van Gaal will pick someone he trusts, prob RVP.
There are plenty of neutrals who rate Rafael higher than Coleman, so it only means that you have to hang out with better neutrals.
Except that's not true at all. The reason a lot neutrals (as well as many United fans such as myself) don't think Rafael is as good as Coleman or Zabaleta is because he's still an idiot on too many occasions. The talent is all there, he's dynamic, he's aggressive, he's very good technically and he seemed to be putting it together at last in 2012/13 before regressing again last season. If he has a good year this and can carry it forward to next year, the attitudes of others will change but, most importantly, we'll have the really high quality right back that Rafael has promised to become for years now.
Oh yes, yes it is.
And as for your second part, it's like you're talking about an U21 player here, in 2012/2013 he was the best right back in the league bar Zabaleta, it's nothing to do with promise, he's delivered, one season where he was mostly injured and clearly not match fit can't replace how excellent he was that year, he reached heights Coleman didn't (that's subjective but I'll stand by it).
Who are these neutrals who rate Mignolet above De Gea? Even the Liverpool fans on here don't think that and the rest of your claims are nonsense as well. One season of good form (where he still had some shit games) does not count as making it, he needs to back it up. I said if he does this season going forwards then he'll establish himself as one of the top full backs around but he has to do that. So far he's played 3 games, 2 he did well in and Leicester where he had a couple of really poor moments.
I'm sorry but who gives a flying feck about the neutrals? They don't watch every United game (or every Everton game for that matter) and are in no position to have an informed opinion about either of them. Seemingly, most of the opinion on Rafael has been formed on the basis of a couple of brain farts and they all pretend the season 2012-2013 never happened. Unfortunately for Rafael he plays for United. Good performances are expected and poor one's are highlighted. With Coleman good performances are praised and the poor ones ignored. Look at Leighton Baines for instance. Are his defensive mistakes pointed by the media? feck no. He made more mistakes against Liverpool than Rafael has made in the entire season.
Everton fans would rather keep Coleman I'm sure and United fans (most I hope) would rather have Rafael. Win Win.
Everton fans would rather keep Coleman I'm sure and United fans (most I hope) would rather have Rafael. Win Win.
One season of good form? Wash your mouth out? He replaced Gary Neville and it's a testament to his quality that replacing such a prolific player like Gary has not been felt by United.
It doesn't seem so unfortunately. We'd be pining for Shamus fecking Coleman. The mind fecking boggles.
Problem is that some people still regard him as 'idiot', for instance Rory here, and bring up that fe.king Bayern game even when he doesnt do anyhting wrong. Against Leicester he was fouled and didnt foul Vardy but people still banged about him being too harsh or whatever. As akash said his mistakes are always highlighted even by United fans although I dont think he makes so many mistakes as it would seem when reading or hearing what saome people have to say..
Coleman? Seriously?
Just don't.
Best in general or best on current form? For me he's not the best either way and saying so is United bias. Rafael is not the best right back in the league. He didn't have a good enough season under Moyes to be considered so and he's only played a few games this season, he's coming into good form but he hasn't done anything to be considered the best. He definitely has the tools to be the best, but lets see how long he can stay injury free and how long he can keep his current form. The following five have strong claims to be considered better than Rafael based on last season and recent form ;Zabaleta, Coleman, Ivanovic, Sagna, Debuchy (yes Debuchy is injured now, but he had a great season with Newcastle)
Because people are stuck with clichés and aren't bothered with further analysis. Stuck in their ways, it's just easier. Especially that way with pundits who have to analyse 10 games but you know they didn't watch them all. They therefor rely on cliches. If you think about it you will notice it every episode.
Debuchy had a good season, and not a great season. Unless you saw all of Newcastle match last season, you can't obviously be sure about Debuchy's season as you are doing with Rafael. Maybe you are a newcastle fan, but I'm guessing you've watched the season highlights of Debuchy. Rafael was injured last season, so you can't take that as a point of reference and nobody here is saying Rafael had a better season than any of those people. All we are trying to say is that 'He definitely has the tools to the best' lalala is nonsense, because he's already proved that he's one of the best RB's in the league when he's not injured.
Sure, there are questions about his injury record, but this constant 'He has potential, maybe he'll show, or maybe he won't', and then using Shamus Coleman and Debuchy as better performers citing consistency is taking the mick. If Rafael sympathizers use a similar argument against coleman to ask for patience on how he performs on European stage, you get jumped on with stats of last season and how he performed well in the International matches.
Exactly!! Not everyone has to wear rose tinted spectacles, but it seems we are all waiting for a mistake from one of our players to throw them under the bus. Be it a Rooney red mist or a Rafael out of position. All of our players played poorly last season, so trade them all to Accrington Stanley?
Ivanovic is by a considerable distance the most consistent right back in the league, closely followed by his compatriot Cesar, who if also played at right back, would prove more consistent than many of those mentioned above.
Debuchy doesn't belong here. I've seen a lot of him at Newcastle and he's a lucky man to be playing at Arsenal. Zabaleta's discipline is worse than Rafael's, albeit that is seldom scrutinised. I don't think his form is as good as it once was either. I've covered Coleman before. He's a good player, sometimes very good, but a defender at plucky Everton will see that his strengths are identified more so than his weaknesses. Opinions of Luke Shaw will change this season. Last season, at Southampton, a bad word was never said. At United there is a change. Good performances are expected, praised less, and errors, and they always exist irrespective of the club one plays their football, are given more airtime. Shaw will receive more negativity this season than ever before. He's already put on weight.
I rate Rafael highly, he's probably my favourite player. But he needs another fit, consistent season to come into the discussion. It is a little bit tiring, however, that we're discussing Seamus Coleman yet again, for practically no reason at all. It's boring.
Debuchy doesn't belong here. I've seen a lot of him at Newcastle and he's a lucky man to be playing at Arsenal. Zabaleta's discipline is worse than Rafael's, albeit that is seldom scrutinised. I don't think his form is as good as it once was either. I've covered Coleman before. He's a good player, sometimes very good, but a defender at plucky Everton will see that his strengths are identified more so than his weaknesses. Opinions of Luke Shaw will change this season. Last season, at Southampton, a bad word was never said. At United there is a change. Good performances are expected, praised less, and errors, and they always exist irrespective of the club one plays their football, are given more airtime. Shaw will receive more negativity this season than ever before. He's already put on weight.
I rate Rafael highly, he's probably my favourite player. But he needs another fit, consistent season to come into the discussion. It is a little bit tiring, however, that we're discussing Seamus Coleman yet again, for practically no reason at all. It's boring.
Yes he is. Rock solid, consistent, reliable. Doesn't dive in (eh up Rafa) good in the air, gets you 4 or 5 goals a season. Top quality.
Team of the week here: http://www.theguardian.com/football...e-teams-week-premier-league-arsenal-liverpool
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