I don't know if he's an idiot or not, I really don't know him well enough for that. I haven't seen anything from him (from interviews etc) that would suggest he's any more intelligent than your average premier league footballer.
To break it down into simple steps.
We simply disagree on that point. It's not because I have a 'stereotyped view of intelligence' (I certainly don't view intelligence as purely based on academic knowledge) but because I think that you don't require exceptional intelligence to be great at a sport. There are elements of intelligence at play, particularly in tactical understanding, but I think it's a leap to declare all premier league footballers intellectually exceptional. For example if you're brought up from a very young age to play the game day in day out, you don't necessarily need to learn the less instinctive elements of the sport very quickly, other factors like athleticism (which Sterling has plenty of) are going to be more important. Then as you train every day for years, those are going to become second nature. I don't know if Sterling took to the tactical side of the game very quickly, I wasn't on the training ground with him as a young player so I can't pass comment. His movement is world class though, which would be the best example of some form of intelligence.
I'd argue Colin Kaepernick and Sterling's actions would be described as brave more than intelligent, no? Plenty of very intelligent people who understand the topic well would not speak out purely due to fear of a reaction from the public.
It’s ok to agree to disagree
. But, genuinely, I really do believe your view here is wrong. We each have an idea of what defines intelligence in our heads and let’s face it, that’s something along the lines of someone who can understand and process complex information, someone who is logical and cut through information to find what’s relevant quickly, someone who has a wide array of knowledge, etc etc. It’s fair to say, playing football isn’t seen as something that requires intelligence. But working as an actuary or a doctor, would be more conceptually in line with our definition of intelligence. They can't cross sports because they've trained in their discipline for their entire lives. That doesn't necessarily mean that the other discipline requires exceptional intelligence, but when one player has been brought up playing a sport for years then clearly they will feel more comfortable than somebody who hasn't. I think that is mixing up training somebody till it becomes instinctive for them (Which can be done with most people) and genuine intelligence, which would be learning it very quickly. Most footballers will be very reliant on having been drilled day in day out from a young age. Some examples of footballers who have exceptional tactical understanding and reading of the game (Some central defenders or central midfielders for example) exist and I think this sort of player would be your best bet for identifying exceptionally intelligent athletes. The examples you use I think is what you learn when you are playing a sport every day since childhood, it becomes second nature to them. Are footballers really thinking when they decide how much energy they need to use when passing? It becomes instinctive through training.It’s ok to agree to disagree
My challenge is that being a footballer at the top level is not something that would ordinarily be categorised as something that requires intelligence, but in my view it is. I absolutely agree that being physically gifted is a large part. But if that was the case, any sportsmen or sportswomen could cross sports easily. I think there is more too it. And tactics aren’t just the only element which requires intelligence. In order to determine how much energy to put through your leg to weigh a pass perfectly - that to me is intelligence. To determine where precisely a ball will land so you can meet it in the right place - that to me is intelligence. To be aware of where to move and run to be in the best place to score - that’s intelligence to me too. They say that catching a ball is one of the most strenuous exercises for our brain. How can we not say that such skills are a factor in intelligence then?
Unless you can come up with an article to back that up, then I'm not sure how you can be so certain of that. You were doing the exact same thing earlier in the thread and claiming Harry Kane would get slaughtered every bit as much as Sterling if he had a gun tattoed on his leg
Unless I can find an article of what? Tabloids criticising an out of form player, or tabloids having digs at players for being flashy? I'm guessing the latter, in which case:
'10 heroic lions, one stupid boy'
But sometimes it most definitely is, and that's the point so many are making. I wouldn't mind, but I've not even said the article about Depay was borne out of racism, yet that's the conclusion you drew. And if you think it isn't possible for newspapers such as the Daily Mail to publish racist articles about footballers on their back pages when they blatantly publish racist articles on their front pages then you need a reality check.
You suggested it could be, when there really is no reason to feel that way. It's a pretty standard article.
That's fair enough and I don't disagree with a lot of that. However, I think it's right that he's called this shit out because 1) It will make the racists in the media (of which there will be some because it's unfathomable that there isn't a single racist journalist in this country) think twice before peddling their shite about him or any other black sports people, and 2) Race issues aside, the sheer number of negative articles about him have most definitely contributed to the amount of stick he's received at football grounds up and down the country which in turn has emboldened some of the more unhinged members of the public to take their hatred of him way too far, as evidenced by what happened on Saturday and, worse still, what happened outside City's training ground last season. That's why this is being classed as a watershed moment in some quarters. Not just on the race issue which is hugely important but also in general. For too long, the gutter press in this country has penned unwarranted hateful shit about people, which in turn has rubbed off on some gullible members of the public. It should've stopped nearly 30 years ago when that despicable article about Liverpool fans at Hillsborough was published and how it's been allowed to go on unabated for so long is beyond me.
I think in general we need to be looking at the disgusting shit the tabloid press print week in week out about players. They shouldn't be able to get away with treating any players the way they do, regardless of ethnicity.
TBF Amir Khan did run some bloke over while speeding, who eventually died. That might've contributed to a negative image of him, although his general arrogant demeanor had more to do with it. Wouldn't put him in the same boat as Sterling.
I think people have just reached a point of acceptance about the state of journalism in the country, something that I think I'm probably guilty of as well. I just see stories like that now and have little reaction to them because I don't expect anything better from these papers.
He broke his leg in the accident. Then he died two years later from a gastrointesinal issue. Totally unrelated, but exactly the sort of thing the Daily Mail would be desperate to link.
No, I'm not having that, it's utter nonsense. You haven't stated your point 'over and over' again at all. And you're glossing over this and then banging out a load of garble because you don't actually have a point and are simply trying to misdirect and save face.
And you've also now conceded that he has been treated badly by the press due to racism here...
So that's that. Done and dusted.
Black footballers who have gone through experiences with this subject that would make your bottom lip quiver if you were put in the same situation, great sportsmen who have shown more grit and determination to drag this sport forward than any casual spectator can really fathom - have their opinions casually tossed aside as-
Rather than listen, or learn from people who you share a society with and have lived through this topic, it becomes quite clear that you'd rather squabble and be divisive, for whatever reason...
You complain and whinge a lot that if people object to your rather clumsy, mean-spirited and badly-informed approach to this complicated topic that they're dismissing you because you're white - but that's yet more complete garbage.
I don't agree, I don't think being a top footballer requires more intelligence than to drive a car competently. It's basic foot to eye coordination, move into space, observe and pass.It’s ok to agree to disagree
My challenge is that being a footballer at the top level is not something that would ordinarily be categorised as something that requires intelligence, but in my view it is. I absolutely agree that being physically gifted is a large part. But if that was the case, any sportsmen or sportswomen could cross sports easily. I think there is more too it. And tactics aren’t just the only element which requires intelligence. In order to determine how much energy to put through your leg to weigh a pass perfectly - that to me is intelligence. To determine where precisely a ball will land so you can meet it in the right place - that to me is intelligence. To be aware of where to move and run to be in the best place to score - that’s intelligence to me too. They say that catching a ball is one of the most strenuous exercises for our brain. How can we not say that such skills are a factor in intelligence then?
The phrasing might be irksome and provocative (I didn’t choose it).
Because it’s quite clear to an impartial observer, that you have more in common with me.
I don’t think you understand what a straw man is.
Not if people read it and realise that he’s an idiot....
Is this irony?
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Let’s see, we are in a similar economic class. We definitely don’t have similar upbringings- I was born in actual poverty in Africa, and raised with almost no privileges as a kid until I was about 11. Education and workplaces are probably comparable.
Are you OK? You seem to have taken quite a bit of offence at a pretty innocuous post where I was responding to what you said. I hope it isn't because you've read too much into the post and seen something about yourself that I didn't intend.... because that would probably say more about you than me.
Ok, thanks.
There’s also another very significant variable that you’re overlooking.
This goes too far. To the extent you can't criticise a player like Lukaku who's played poorly out of fear of being called racist. Ozil gets called lazy, yet runs more than most players albeit at a slow pace and guess what he's not black. But his pressing isn't very good. Are we saying that's because he's of Turkish extraction or is the criticism fair? Aguero being world class and PL Winner gets a pass for not pressing as much. One of Lukaku's strengths was his workrate prior to him getting fat. When United are mid table scapegoats will naturally be made so the comparison doesn't carry weight.
