Wrong, our children worship them. So when their hero’s fk up and then get to carry on then it paints a very bad picture
Raith Rovers Controversy
- Thread starter SilentWitness
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Yes they are!First of all, a convict exercising their right to appeal is not an indictment on them or their character, the same way pleading not guilty doesn't mean someone is a scumbag.
Remorse is a personal feeling. Regardless of how he feels inside, what is of material concern to society is that he pays (in prison time or money) for his crime, and that he sticks to staying out of trouble. I mean, on this issue, would anyone's opinion be different if he was remorseful after the fact?
No they don't, and no they are not
Jesus, you don't become Mandela because you have a wicked shot from outside the box
telling me millions of children don’t look up to footballers?
how many kids at my school went round doing the cantona kick in the play ground back when.
How many kids copied beckhams hair cut
you’re a simpleton if you think the actions of sportsmen does not effect children
Probably not millions, he’s a low level players that no one has heard of
Not the point, doesn’t have to be millions, even if it was 1 it would be 1 too many
he’s scum, blew his chance, he can rebuild his life somewhere else
Wiki says he has 92 goals in 140 games over the last 5 years for Clyde.
So yeah, he is tearing up Scottish League 1.
So, he has played five years of football and now people are getting outraged? Seems severely delayed.
Yeah, it does seem strange. I guess him being transferred has brought a lot of it to light, but it still surprises me that there seems to have been little to no pushback when he continued to play for Clyde.
Maybe that's why Raith Rovers felt like they would get away with the transfer. Still, it can't be worth the shitstorm that's already began. I don't know how easy it is to cancel a contract, but they should probably be looking into doing that.
It did. Personally, I’m uncomfortable with a civil court effectively making a quasi-criminal decision, as it leads to situations like this one. Perhaps when they do it would be preferable if they were to adopt the criminal “beyond reasonable doubt” burden of proof.
In general terms, I read into this area of law quite a lot around the times of the Ched Evans case, as that looked inherently flawed to me (and was subsequently overturned). It’s a really difficult area, which I don’t feel the courts (even the criminal
ones) have yet necessarily got complete clarity on. There’s a lot of potential for doubt in my view.
For all those reasons, I’m really uncomfortable with the approach been taken here - which ignores the fact that there wasn’t sufficient evidence for a criminal conviction - and basically bans him from his chosen career.
You sir are a brave man, my compliments.
I'm unfamiliar with the Scottish legal system but if RR terminate his contract could he then have a precedence to sue RR for wrongful termination?
He should definitely not be allowed to play football imo but it seems no one has had a problem with it until now which is odd
He should definitely not be allowed to play football imo but it seems no one has had a problem with it until now which is odd
So...the person was deemed too drunk to consent, but the two lads were extremely drunk as well?
Odd horrible case, weird timing, unfortunate name.
Odd horrible case, weird timing, unfortunate name.
I'm not saying Raith condones rape or says it's acceptable, but they're saying it's no barrier to playing for a professional football club and representing your community- a club like Raith, as opposed to a global titan like United is very much still anchored to its local support base. Pay a fine, no need for remorse and go back to playing footie.
Clearly the directors and women's team players who've quit and the fans ripping up season tickets feel it sends out the wrong message.
I agree on one thing though- it's difficult to know how to treat convicted rapists. Yes you want them to be able to work again rather than sit on benefits for what could be 50, 60 years or more, but I wouldn't my company hiring one and I wouldn't if I was a boss. If you're all in on rehabilitation would you be fine if your wife and daughter's masseur, dentist and GP were all convicted rapists? Your kid's teachers? I don't know how you practically solve the issue.
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The damage has already been done.
Would he still get paid the whole contract?
What about someone who isn’t convicted because the evidence isn’t strong enough to take him to criminal court (note a civil court can’t convict anyone)? How can he be in a worse position than someone who the criminal courts have found not guilty?
Yeah, a lot has. Obviously signing him was wrong but that statement they made defending it was insane.
I don't get your question?
I'm interested to see what happens next. At 32 he's at an age where some players retire but in the Scottish league, you'd probably want to keep playing as long as possible as it isn't a wage considerable enough that you can comfortably retire for life. Playing in Scotland now seems unlikely for him, even a return to Clyde due to the uproar, but I wonder if he seeks a move back down to England or abroad.
This is thread worthy for the general really.
He'll probably just retire on the 4 years worth of wages that Raith will now presumably have to pay him to leave.
Just goes to show the kind of difficulties Greenwood will face in the future. We are a lot more high profile than Raith, with a lot more to image to lose.
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Will have to see what results from the 'discussions'.
On the one hand, if they're forced to pay him the full wages they agreed to in the contract it seems a fitting punishment for them signing him in the first place and might discourage other clubs from making similar mistakes.
On the other, he's a rapist so feck him. Getting four years wages for doing no work is hardly how we want to see sex offenders rewarded.
One of the many legal situations where I wish both parties could lose.
On the other, he's a rapist so feck him. Getting four years wages for doing no work is hardly how we want to see sex offenders rewarded.
One of the many legal situations where I wish both parties could lose.
It should go without saying, that convicted rapists should be prevented from continuing to make a lot of money in the public eye off the backs of the public. We need to accept that professional football players are role models for many young people out there, regardless of us agreeing or not.
I would like to believe that most players would not abuse their position of strength and wealth for the wrong reasons. But, I would also like to think that any of them that just think they might be able to buy their way out of it, will know that they will have lost their golden ticket once and for all.
I would like to believe that most players would not abuse their position of strength and wealth for the wrong reasons. But, I would also like to think that any of them that just think they might be able to buy their way out of it, will know that they will have lost their golden ticket once and for all.
It’s hard to see how he wouldn’t be allowed back to Clyde. What possible justification would there be to prevent that? Seems the best solution all-round really.
I imagine that the bad PR this has caused would make Clyde reluctant to take him back.
Could anyone hazard a guess as to what a 4 year salary with Raith Rovers would be?
Probably around 200-300k.
Per year or for the whole 4 years. According to one of those football salary websites they only have two players on just over a grand a week.
For 4 years, he's likely to be on a wage of roughly 1-1.5k per week.
Why wouldn't he? You can't rip up a contract you signed with full knowledge of the situation, just because some members of the public are going apeshit.
It's not difficult honestly. Despite the horrendous nature of their crime, you can't have one rule for rapists and one rule for everyone else. It's either you believe in ex-cons having a place in society, or you don't. If you do then it's simple. And if you don't, it's simple. Except for a few understandable exceptions (fraud ex-cons can't work as accountants, pedo ex-cons can't work as teachers) applicable strictly because of the risk of relapse, it's not as complicated as you think. And it's ok to say "they should starve"! Just say it with your chest
I'd imagine a 2nd division side like Raith Rovers pay their players less than £1000 a week. I don't know how high profile of a player this guy is but his scoring record at his previous club is very good. The high end wages for a club like Raith would probably be £1500 a week. If he's getting that then that puts him at around £78k per year and just over £300k for the 4 years.
Currently in Croatia filming a movie about our first president.
With our ill famed nazi feck director.
Good times indeed.
And, of course, Adexkola, Goodwillie is not a convicted rapist as that would mean a criminal court convicted him (which isn’t the case). The case against Ched Evans was stronger and he eventually had the decision against him overturned.Why wouldn't he? You can't rip up a contract you signed with full knowledge of the situation, just because some members of the public are going apeshit.
It's not difficult honestly. Despite the horrendous nature of their crime, you can't have one rule for rapists and one rule for everyone else. It's either you believe in ex-cons having a place in society, or you don't. If you do then it's simple. And if you don't, it's simple. Except for a few understandable exceptions (fraud ex-cons can't work as accountants, pedo ex-cons can't work as teachers) applicable strictly because of the risk of relapse, it's not as complicated as you think. And it's ok to say "they should starve"! Just say it with your chest
Actually, rapists shouldn't be working anywhere near kids, not just in a school. The only reason this case is not as black and white is because he doesn't have a criminal conviction, but that's only the legal side. A judge has already defined him as a rapist. So society is going to treat him as one.It's not difficult honestly. Despite the horrendous nature of their crime, you can't have one rule for rapists and one rule for everyone else. It's either you believe in ex-cons having a place in society, or you don't. If you do then it's simple. And if you don't, it's simple. Except for a few understandable exceptions (fraud ex-cons can't work as accountants, pedo ex-cons can't work as teachers) applicable strictly because of the risk of relapse, it's not as complicated as you think. And it's ok to say "they should starve"! Just say it with your chest
So Raith Rovers are paying a rapist a three year salary not to play for them.
That went well.
Are we sure Woodward et al aren't offering consultancies to other clubs?
That went well.
Are we sure Woodward et al aren't offering consultancies to other clubs?
Cheers fella. Just looked up and their annual wage bill works out at about £11or 12k per week, so that sounds about right. Say, 5 players on 1k/week, 5 on £750, 5 on £500 and 5 on £250 and even then it goes over the total. Don’t know why but I expected more. It’s crazy really, there will be English championship players (and not even very good ones) whose individual salary is triple Raith’s entire budget.
Any chance David Goodwillie will sit down for an interview on the subject? I guess he will have a few thoughts in his head?
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Why are people saying 4 years when he signed a contract until the end of season 2023 - 2024 ? That's 2 and a half years.
Raith get on average a bit under 2000 fans per game. 18 league matches per season. Cup games attendances seem to be a lot lower. Ticket prices range from £5 (kids) to £20 (adults). How on earth do Raith afford the wages quoted above ?
Raith get on average a bit under 2000 fans per game. 18 league matches per season. Cup games attendances seem to be a lot lower. Ticket prices range from £5 (kids) to £20 (adults). How on earth do Raith afford the wages quoted above ?
Criminal courts operate a “beyond reasonable doubt” test for a reason. That’s because it you use a “balance of probabilities” test there is theoretically a 49% chance of a mistake. This case, to me, is very difficult and falls into a very grey area of law. I think a lot of civil judges would have found the other way. The relevant fact which should decide whether he should continue to play is that the case against him was so weak he wasn’t even taken to criminal court.
Thank god we have legal experts in sexual assault cases to guide us on the Caf.
This wilfully overlooks how poorly the justice system has served victims of rape though. Only 1.6% of recorded rapes result in a charge, which is among the lowest in the western world.
Several judges did deem him a rapist.