Rashford is as good as Mbappé...

[Raees]

Must surely be the stand out worst post in this thread right?

What side has Mbappe remotely carried ffs?

See my post above. For Monaco he was becoming a leader, the star man. That is very impressive at the age of 18. How many youngsters could become the star player of a side, and make an impact as a leading force for that team in the CL regardless of how good the rest of the side was.

if you watched that Juve CL semi, the main threat was Mbappe.. he was the one who was demanding the ball and trying to make things happen. That has to be respected.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

See my post above. For Monaco he was becoming a leader, the star man. That is very impressive at the age of 18. How many youngsters could become the star player of a side, and make an impact as a leading force for that team in the CL regardless of how good the rest of the side was.

if you watched that Juve CL semi, the main threat was Mbappe.. he was the one who was demanding the ball and trying to make things happen. That has to be respected.

I read your post above and massively disagree, Monaco had no stand out player, hence why just three players in their squad were subsequently sold for 150 million euros. Arsenal wanted to make that four players for 250 million euros with their bid for Lemar.

Oh, and their lead striker had 30 goals in 43 games.

I think what you're saying is that, Mbappe was their most dangerous player in a couple of really high profile games. I agree, but to claim that means he "carried" anything is bananas. Lemar, Fabinho, Mendy, Falcao, Silva et al.. anyone of of them would at times be their stand-out player in a game.

 

[Hugh Jass]

If he wasn't English and played for a foreign club then his hype would be exponentially higher than it is here.

Pretty much.

 

[Raees]

I read your post above and massively disagree, Monaco had no stand out player, hence why just three players in their squad were subsequently sold for 150 million euros. Arsenal wanted to make that four players for 250 million euros with their bid for Lemar.

Oh, and their lead striker had 30 goals in 43 games.

I think what you're saying is that, Mbappe was their most dangerous player in a couple of really high profile games. I agree, but to claim that means he "carried" anything is bananas. Lemar, Fabinho, Mendy, Falcao, Silva et al.. anyone of of them would at times be their stand-out player in a game.

The team grew without Mbappe and was a great side without him, however once he was in, he grew to become the best player in that side for me and I am sure many experts agreed that was the case hence why he was the one who attracted the biggest hoopla and was touted as a £150m player.

Whilst your claim in bold, is true - it is also true that in the CL towards the end, Mbappe was outperforming his team mates and I think it is as clear as day to anyone, he's the most talented player from that Monaco side, and the sort of player any team in the world would make room for in their starting XI even based on current performance level. Even if he doesn't go on to become the next Messi/Ronaldo, if was able to maintain current performance level.. every side would want him in their team for that right wing forward berth. He's a class above from his Monaco team mates IMO (whether that will always be the case? who knows but right here right now, he is).

I came into this thread to state we need to be careful elevating Mbappe to GOAT levels, but there are people in this thread so keen to shit on the boys talent, been forced to defend him instead. Fact is, currently the best young talent in the world - whether that translates itself into he will always be the best of his peer group.. who knows but at this moment in time, he's definitely ahead of his peers and that is all that needs to be said.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I came into this thread to state we need to be careful elevating Mbappe to GOAT levels, but there are people in this thread so keen to shit on the boys talent, been forced to defend him instead. Fact is, currently the best young talent in the world - whether that translates itself into he will always be the best of his peer group.. who knows but at this moment in time, he's definitely ahead of his peers and that is all that needs to be said.

Come of it @Raees, absolutely no-one is "shitting" on him, not remotely, so you came into this thread to do exactly what you did.

I just rewatched the CL away match you spoke of and well, I don't see anything there that elevates him to this "best young talent in the world" you're speaking of, I think both Rashford and Martial would have similar games in that situation.

Rewatch yourself.

Spoiler: Mbappe - Juve away

Mbappe attracted the biggest hoppla because of his goals and especially his age, goal scorers are always the most attractive of players, very young ones even more so. Same goes at United really, if we were a selling club you can guarantee the biggest interest in our entire squad would be around our two left forwards, even if they aren't our best players.

 

[Raees]

Come of it @Raees, absolutely no-one is "shitting" on him, not remotely, so you came into this thread to do exactly what you did.

I just rewatched the CL away match you spoke of and well, I don't see anything there that elevates him to this "best young talent in the world" you're speaking of, I think both Rashford and Martial would have similar games in that situation.

Rewatch yourself.

Spoiler: Mbappe - Juve away

Mbappe attracted the biggest hoppla because of his goals and especially his age, goal scorers are always the most attractive of players, very young ones even more so. Same goes at United really, if we were a selling club you can guarantee the biggest interest in our entire squad would be around our two left forwards, even if they aren't our best players.

I've just watched the first 30 seconds and I've seen three moments there which I definitely wouldn't expect from Rashford or Martial in a CL semi based on last year form. His close control is far ahead of someone like Rashford and the movement he showed off the ball to follow his pass, ahead of Martial of last year.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Not sure about this Mbappe generational talent, as good as Messi/Ronaldo/Rooney at 18 business. Just think he's a very good player and on topic, definitely better than Rashford. Hype around him is getting ridiculous

 

[podurban2]

Can’t wait for Rashford to play in a semi-final because otherwise he can’t be anywhere close to Mbappe, it seems.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I've just watched the first 30 seconds and I've seen three moments there which I definitely wouldn't expect from Rashford or Martial in a CL semi based on last year form. His close control is far ahead of someone like Rashford and the movement he showed off the ball to follow his pass, ahead of Martial of last year.

Last year? Let's base it on now, as the discussion is now.

And look how blinded you are @Raees:

17 seconds. Gets ball in space, hits first man with cross.
22 seconds. Comes inside with ball, plays simple pass.
29 seconds. Offside
The next moment comes at 55 seconds when he gets tackled by Dani Alves.
1:40 nice skill, but nothing "wow", simple balled played wide.
1:55 loses ball

So...?

He's a cracking talent, but it's comments like "watched 30 seconds and I've seen three moments there which I definitely wouldn't expect from Rashford or Martial in a CL semi" are just fecking bizarre/baffling. Especially when you break those moments down.

 

[Hugh Jass]

The pattern is we over-hype the player in the other team and we under-value the player in our own team (man utd). Go back and read (when we were close to signing them) the Mata thread, the Mkhitarian thread and you will see people raving about signing these players. Then when they get a few games under their belt and dont meet the ridiculous childish high expectations, we start saying they are poor and need to be replaced.

I suspect that if they swapped teams, we again would under-value Mbappe and over-hype Rashford.

 

[roonster09]

I've just watched the first 30 seconds and I've seen three moments there which I definitely wouldn't expect from Rashford or Martial in a CL semi based on last year form. His close control is far ahead of someone like Rashford and the movement he showed off the ball to follow his pass, ahead of Martial of last year.

We should sell Rashford and Martial to league 1 team if you think both are not capable of basic play like the first 3 in that video. Mbappe is huge talent but the lengths people go to make their point is weird.

 

[kouroux]

The pattern is we over-hype the player in the other team and we under-value the player in our own team (man utd). Go back and read (when we were close to signing them) the Mata thread, the Mkhitarian thread and you will see people raving about signing these players. Then when they get a few games under their belt and dont meet the ridiculous childish high expectations, we start saying they are poor and need to be replaced.

I suspect that if they swapped teams, we again would under-value Mbappe and over-hype Rashford.

I'm fairly sure if we swapped them, Rashford wouldn't start for PSG.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I'm fairly sure if we swapped them, Rashford wouldn't start for PSG.

That'll depend a lot on the hype train that comes with the CL. If Rashford scores a couple of big goals and plays well in the CL knockouts, a lot would change. CL means so much to people's perceptions, just look at the way people on the continent are finally considering Harry Kane as WC after his Dortmund brace.

 

[Raees]

We should sell Rashford and Martial to league 1 team if you think both are not capable of basic play like the first 3 in that video. Mbappe is huge talent but the lengths people go to make their point is weird.

You might think that basic play, but the ease at which he is pulling those things off in a game of that magitude and the control with which he is doing that. The touch, the close control, his general decision-making, the movement for the goal.. his performance exudes maturity and class.

Last year? Let's base it on now, as the discussion is now.

And look how blinded you are @Raees:

17 seconds. Gets ball in space, hits first man with cross.
22 seconds. Comes inside with ball, plays simple pass.
29 seconds. Offside
The next moment comes at 55 seconds when he gets tackled by Dani Alves.
1:40 nice skill, but nothing "wow", simple balled played wide.
1:55 loses ball

So...?

He's a cracking talent, but it's comments like "watched 30 seconds and I've seen three moments there which I definitely wouldn't expect from Rashford or Martial in a CL semi" are just fecking bizarre/baffling. Especially when you break those moments down.

Cool.

Anyway lets see how Mbappe does in this years CL and we shall see how Rashford does, and also take the world cup into play and discuss then.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Cool.

Anyway lets see how Mbappe does in this years CL and we shall see how Rashford does, and also take the world cup into play and discuss then.

I think that's the best way to look at it, Rashford and Martial are finally a part of a cracking side so the proof for them will be in the pudding this season. Judging by the way both have started the season, I think their numbers will be superb.

I fully expect whatever happens that Mbappe will have a better WC than Rashford, France should go far.

 

[roonster09]

You might think that basic play, but the ease at which he is pulling those things off in a game of that magitude and the control with which he is doing that.

First moment, rolls foot over ball, step-over beats a man.. if you take that out of context, any tom dick and harry can do that from Sunday League to bloody Andros Townsend. But he's

Wow, he rolled his foot over the ball in semi finals.

He didn't beat his man, that's a basic step over and run to byline move.

His goal scoring record was insane for a 18 year old, no need to praise even the basic skills saying it's something out of this world. Rashford and Martial are more than capable of those, if you think they aren't then you must be having very low opinion on those 2 players.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

I love Rashford but, this is a silly comparison. Not Xhaka/Pogba silly but, pretty silly.

 

[Hugh Jass]

You might think that basic play, but the ease at which he is pulling those things off in a game of that magitude and the control with which he is doing that. The touch, the close control, his general decision-making, the movement for the goal.. his performance exudes maturity and class.



Cool.

Anyway lets see how Mbappe does in this years CL and we shall see how Rashford does, and also take the world cup into play and discuss then.

If they were individual athletes, that would suffice. But Mbappe plays in a much better France team than Rashford does for England and thus it will be easier for Mbappe to do better than Rashford. Also plays in a much easier league than Rashford, so you cannot apply that either. The champions league is the only one I would look at.

 

[kouroux]

That'll depend a lot on the hype train that comes with the CL. If Rashford scores a couple of big goals and plays well in the CL knockouts, a lot would change. CL means so much to people's perceptions, just look at the way people on the continent are finally considering Harry Kane as WC after his Dortmund brace.

And rightly as it's THE competition in European football. That's not a small "if" btw

 

[Moby]

You haven't actually made any substantive points other than "this thread would be laughed off" and "Mbappe is a generational talent".

Nor have you apart from weird conspiracy theories like Rashford being underrated because he's English, apparently.

At the end of the day their performances are what speaks for themselves and they are out there for everyone to see. One is poking balls past Crystal Palace defenders while the other is doing the same against Bayern Munich.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

And rightly as it's THE competition in European football. That's not a small "if" btw

Agreed. But what I don't understand for example is the idea that Mbappe scoring against City (in a better Monaco side fwiw) is somehow worth more than Rashford scoring against City, because one is in the CL and the other in the PL.

Strange logic for me @kouroux.

One thing you are bang on about is that Mbappe has proved more than Rashford or Martial so far. This season they get their chance to change that, or not.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Nor have you apart from weird conspiracy theories like Rashford being underrated because he's English, apparently.

At the end of the day their performances are what speaks for themselves and they are out there for everyone to see. One is poking balls past Crystal Palace defenders while the other is doing the same against Bayern Munich.

One has scored against Arsenal, Man City, English Champions elect Chelsea and in the EL semi finals so get a grip of yourself @Moby.

 

[JohnnyKills]

One has scored against Arsenal, Man City, English Champions elect Chelsea and in the EL semi finals so get a grip of yourself @Moby.

If Rashford and Martial were playing for other teams we'd be raving about them and mentioning them in the same breath as Mbappe.

 

[AgentP]

Before the start of this season, Mbappe was clearly better both based on performance and technique. But Rashford has massively improved his game since the start of this season. He is still not at Mbappe's level but he is not too far behind. Both are very young and we can expect sudden improvements from either of these players. As Raees mentioned, we can come to a better conclusion at the end of the World cup next year as to who is the better player. Meanwhile, can't wait for Martial to overtake both

 

[luke511]

Mbappe has that top level consistency only the very best players seem to have, Rashford doesn't, simple as that.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Frankly I couldn't give a monkeys about how good Mbappe is, or might be - he isn't a United player and probably never will be. On the topic of Rashford though, there are a few things (outside of his obvious footballing talent) that make me very excited for his future. Firstly his self belief and seeming lack of nerves...his head seems to be in the right place...hence him scoring on all of those different debuts. Secondly his propensity for improvement - with the exception of a lean spell in the first half of last season (which can easily be explained by various factors) he seems to get better every time I see him. And thirdly his physique, again he seems more developed and bigger/stronger every time I see him, in a way which reminds me of C Ronaldo when he was here. When he first broke onto the scene I thought he might be a bit of Welbeck, but he's already better than Danny ever was, and he's less than 2 seasons into his career.

I think he's going to be an absolute star.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

At the end of the day their performances are what speaks for themselves and they are out there for everyone to see. One is poking balls past Crystal Palace defenders while the other is doing the same against Bayern Munich.

Yep, cos that's all Rashford has done.

When I read comments like this it makes me genuinely question whether people are on the wind up or not.

 

[Moby]

One has scored against Arsenal, Man City, English Champions elect Chelsea and in the EL semi finals so get a grip of yourself @Moby.

No one denying he's quality but he hasn't performed at the highest stage unlike Mbappe, through obviously no fault of his own. He will get that chance this season and if he can put in similar performances against elite teams he will be talked in the same breath as Mbappe.

 

[Moby]

Yep, cos that's all Rashford has done.

When I read comments like this it makes me genuinely question whether people are on the wind up or not.

It was obviously tongue in cheek but bear in mind this thread was created on the back of that performance.

 

[Santoryo]

Not sure about this Mbappe generational talent, as good as Messi/Ronaldo/Rooney at 18 business. Just think he's a very good player and on topic, definitely better than Rashford. Hype around him is getting ridiculous

Pretty much this.

Mbappe is a brilliant talent, definitely better than Rashford but in no way this generational talent far above his peers. That is utterly nonsense.

It's arguable if he's actually better than the likes of Martial, Dembele the other top talents of this generation. The only reason he has somehow become to be seen above their likes is purely become of media hype and over inflation of everything he does.

Mbappe does absolutely nothing to suggest he's in a league of his own compared to his peers. He's just ridiculously overhyped and overrated.

Good games from him have people labeled him as a monster who wrecks teams, case in point the Bayern game. He had a brilliant game but in now way did he wreck them but that's the narrative going around the net which leads to people believing he is this otherworldly talent compared to his peers.

Mbappe is a case of right timing and right place. He exploded on the scene and delivered in some high profile games which led to media turning attention on him. With that much media attention the hype builds and everything he does get inflated for the sake of the narrative set.

 

[Santoryo]

By the way all these talks seem to forget Martial's first season. I keep seeing how Mbappe carries Monaco last year(which he actually didnt) yet a 19 year old Martial carried a team like United and was it's best outfield player.

At 19 he was the go to guy and currently he has stats comparable with the best in the PL. Somehow all this seems to be forgotten and some talk about Martial like some run if the mill talent.

I've always said this and I still maintain that Martial and Dembele are actually better talent than Mbappe. Though the latter is the hyped guy currently.

 

[haram]

Mbappe is clearly an incredible player and will be challenging for balon dor's in the future but I just don't think, by the end of this new generation, he'll be regarded as the best player of it. For me he's a machine, a very good calculator of the game. But imo he just lacks that... 'magic' that you get from martials dribbling, asensio's long shots or dembele through balls. Obviously you can point out what he did to alaba and call me a fool, but still I just don't feel that edge-of-your-seat rush in mbappe s game.

He's more 'magic' than any of those players.

 

[Moby]

I've always said this and I still maintain that Martial and Dembele are actually better talent than Mbappe. Though the latter is the hyped guy currently.

If you go by raw talent then there isn't much difference between those names as well as Rashford and other talents.

Mbappe is obviously in form and playing next to a 200m dollar player and at times outshining him, but being a great players goes beyond raw talent and has to do more with consistently applying that especially on the biggest stage. All of these names have already done that to varying degrees which is why they're in the conversation for the best talents of their generation but the biggest reason Mbappe was such a hot property in the summer were his performances in the CL. He also played for team that probably had the best attack in all top European leagues and got everyone's attention but at the same time he has delivered to those expectations so far.

Martial's raw talent is top drawer as is Rashford's but the reason Rashford is starting ahead of Martial is hugely because the kid is fearless and applies his talent whenever given the opportunity and looks to dominate the opposition. That's his best trait and it's why he could end up with better career than Martial who I would say has more raw talent in terms of dribbling, close control and ball retention but often plays within himself. I honestly hope Jose gives him his full support and start him more often because him hitting top form will make us a tremendous competition for anyone out there.

All said and done, it's great that we have two of the brightest talents in the world and they're being given the opportunity to showcase that talent. It's scary to think just how good we can be with the two of them and Lukaku who isn't much older. It's eerily similar to the time when we had Ronaldo and Rooney coming up as youngsters during a transition period for the club and you could just say that once they settle in they'll be no stopping them. Hopefully we see a repeat of that with this crop.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It was obviously tongue in cheek but bear in mind this thread was created on the back of that performance.

Yeah that’s true in fairness.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

By the way all these talks seem to forget Martial's first season. I keep seeing how Mbappe carries Monaco last year(which he actually didnt) yet a 19 year old Martial carried a team like United and was it's best outfield player.

At 19 he was the go to guy and currently he has stats comparable with the best in the PL. Somehow all this seems to be forgotten and some talk about Martial like some run if the mill talent.

I've always said this and I still maintain that Martial and Dembele are actually better talent than Mbappe. Though the latter is the hyped guy currently.

There are fifty fecking million threads about Martial, literally no-one has forgotten about him. This one is about Rashford - that's probably why there isn't a great deal of Martial chat on it.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

No one denying he's quality but he hasn't performed at the highest stage unlike Mbappe, through obviously no fault of his own. He will get that chance this season and if he can put in similar performances against elite teams he will be talked in the same breath as Mbappe.

Aye, good post.

 

[Raoul]

Nor have you apart from weird conspiracy theories like Rashford being underrated because he's English, apparently.

At the end of the day their performances are what speaks for themselves and they are out there for everyone to see. One is poking balls past Crystal Palace defenders while the other is doing the same against Bayern Munich.

Unless you’re deliberately wumming you would know Rashford also pokes balls past the likes of Man City, Chelsea, and Arsenal. You can’t hold anything against him for not scoring against the likes of Bayern since we haven’t played them. And as for the Palace reference, I’m sure Mbappe has a fair few goals against championship quality minnows like Troyes, AS Nancy, FC Bastia, Metz and the like so it all equals out.

At the end of the day there nothing for Rashford to prove in this debate since no one is claiming he’s miles ahead of Mbappé. All the work is in Mbappe camp since it is they who are attempting to claim he’s some sort of generational player after one season as an 18 year old.

 

[Raoul]

Not sure about this Mbappe generational talent, as good as Messi/Ronaldo/Rooney at 18 business. Just think he's a very good player and on topic, definitely better than Rashford. Hype around him is getting ridiculous

The hype is unreal and believe me once he begins to underperform (and he will) it will all come crashing down.

 

[Moby]

You can’t hold anything against him for not scoring against the likes of Bayern since we haven’t played them.

That's the main difference here and it's obviously no fault of Rashford, but at the same time Mbappe should get the credit for displaying top performances at the highest stage. And it's not like he was playing for Madrid or Barca, Monaco were still a pretty decent team overall and he had a big part to play in their CL performances. Rashford has the stage set in front of him and the day he achieves the same, there'll be an argument of comparing him with Mbappe. But presently, Mbappe has simply more evidence for his case.

Once Rashford achieves that people won't have to make excuses like his nationality or any other such rubbish, it's high time we move on from stuff like 'if Giggs was Giggsinho he would have won a Ballon D'or'. It makes no sense especially since the PL is the most popular league in the world and anyone performing here would be noticed far earlier than other leagues.

 

[Moby]

who are attempting to claim he’s some sort of generational player after one season as an 18 year old.

The Messi/Ronaldo comparisons are way off the mark, for any player, I doubt we would be fortunate to witness similar talents soon again.

However, at the moment looking at the generation following these two, it's not a bad prediction to consider Mbappe as the front runner in terms of being the best in that generation. Of course several such predictions have gone wrong, but right now it's fair to make that prediction.

Personally, watching him play gives you an impression that he's already well in control of the games he's in and has that quality of stamping his authority on the match, and his decision making is unbelievable for an 18 year old.