I wonder what has made Ten Hag decide on Hojlund?
Rasmus Højlund | Signed for United
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
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They would have done that back in June if there was any encouragement,clearly that didn't happen so moved to Hojlund instead
Vibes
Couldn't persuade Spurs to sell Kane
Availability and cost.
There isn’t many options out there.
All our reckless spending over the years has really caught up with us.
Not really. The yearly difference in wages + amortized transfer fees is not much between the two, Hojlund and Kane. At €70m vs €100m, plus salaries, you’re looking at roughly 15m a year which is minimal compared to the 60m-80m we’d earn from CL participation.
He sees a player with the raw skills who would fit his ideas?
I think it’s clear to see if you follow what ETH has said about his ideal striker - Physical, hardworking with link up play and makes runs in behind
It's not for nothing that back then we had the choice between Rvp and a more younger, unproven Lewandowski. Great as he was for us for a year, with the benefit of hindsight Lewy might have been the better signing.
Yeah I know many won't agree but see him as same tier as Ramos/Kolo-Muani/Vlahovic
Hojlund is not someone we're hanging our hat on for the next ten years. I'm all for buying the next Kane or Lewa if one can find them, for now someone like Hojlund will have to do and I think he'll do well for us even at his age, his attributes are there for the chances we create and miss centrally. We should be able to get a decent fee back if he doesn't make it or we sign better ready players or prospects.
Bayern have had an offer in that vicinity rejected, he’ll be moving for a lot more than that. Plus the difference in wages alone will be around 15m a year. We’d also be daft to offer a 5 year contract to a 30 year old. The difference in yearly cost will be significant, see my post above. The gamble here is if Hojlund is enough to consistently get us qualifying for the Champions League. I don’t have an opinion either way as I haven’t seen enough of him, but it’s not a straightforward decision in my view.
Yeah I’m struggling to get excited for this tbh. Watched a bunch of videos and havent see a single exceptional thing in them, let alone the potential for shelling out 60-70m, and that Lewa video (along with the kind of stuff that ‘he who shall not be named’ displayed instantly) just makes me even more concerned that this whole “rawness” thing is a bluff. I know I haven’t watched him live but he looks for all the world like a back up punt for £20-30m and we’re getting properly rinsed here. This is where proper scouting should come in and find us a Chica or sommat.
I just hope ETH knows just how to use him to get the absolute highest level possible out, and it’ll all comes together tactically.
At least I’m confident enough in my own ignorance to convince myself I’m probably missing something massive
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I think you’re high on Kane and low on Hojlund. Hojlund will be on 150k+ wages no doubt. Kane at most 350k. Levy won’t get 120k for Kane, not when we can negotiate with him in January. The gap is closer to 15m, not 30. Throw in extra CL revenues, clearly Kane is affordable.
He won’t
Not saying he will, but if he fails at Utd, it will be a very high profile flop.
And this club is probably the worst at selling players in the PL if we’re honest.
I guess by then we may have different owners, but as it stands, if he flops here, I wouldn’t expect anything other than a very similar situation to Maguire / Sancho.
So who do we sign then posters who are clearly against bringing him in and don't say Kane
I reckon its a done deal at this point, expect it to be done a week on Friday
Spurs have offered him £400k to renew so I would say that's accurate. Apparently he wants more than that. Also Hojlund is currently on €12k so £100k would be ridiculous. Rumour is we agreed on £75k/w for his personal terms.
Here's the problem with compilations. They cherry pick the optimal moments and omit the weakness of any given player.
What's the alternative. All touches videos? You might say, "Yeah, that gives a real picture of the player", but I would argue that, actually, it does not.
You might see all touches in any given game, however, what you don't get is context. Why do you think scouts watch full games, either in-person or on video, and not "all touch videos?" Because they're misleading and dangerously entice people to commit to very strong opinions about players. For eg.
"We saw all his touches from 3-4 matches. You can see what kind of player he is."
But this is flawed. What do these videos not show you? The don't show you the lead up to any given touch; they don't show you the wider context of supporting player movement surrounding the player. You get zero tactical context to base your observations on. What could be a bad performance could in reality be a bad choice of tactics which produce an environment conducive to errors and the increasing likelihood of probability of errors occurring.
Let's be honest. How many people pointing out his ability on the ball, or his general play, really understand the context behind these moments with any given certainty? Meanwhile, you've got ten Hag and a bunch of top scouts, having watched him in full way more times than you and I likely would have done, and they seem to think that Hojlund fits the profile he's looking for. Is ten Hag missing something that you're somehow picking up?
Hardly.
What's the alternative. All touches videos? You might say, "Yeah, that gives a real picture of the player", but I would argue that, actually, it does not.
You might see all touches in any given game, however, what you don't get is context. Why do you think scouts watch full games, either in-person or on video, and not "all touch videos?" Because they're misleading and dangerously entice people to commit to very strong opinions about players. For eg.
"We saw all his touches from 3-4 matches. You can see what kind of player he is."
But this is flawed. What do these videos not show you? The don't show you the lead up to any given touch; they don't show you the wider context of supporting player movement surrounding the player. You get zero tactical context to base your observations on. What could be a bad performance could in reality be a bad choice of tactics which produce an environment conducive to errors and the increasing likelihood of probability of errors occurring.
Let's be honest. How many people pointing out his ability on the ball, or his general play, really understand the context behind these moments with any given certainty? Meanwhile, you've got ten Hag and a bunch of top scouts, having watched him in full way more times than you and I likely would have done, and they seem to think that Hojlund fits the profile he's looking for. Is ten Hag missing something that you're somehow picking up?
Hardly.
So who?
Alvarez was the biggest talent in Argentina that every big club knew about and known throughout the world. We just didn't get him because we don't make good deals. You make it sound like City took a random gamble on him and he turned out to be good.
If there was a player like him now, we'd be all over it, but there isn't.
Just because there is a striker that scores goals, doesn't mean he's a great striker that will fit our system. In that case, we can just take our pick. Elye Wahi, Folarin Balogun, Jonathan David, Lacazette, Openda, Ben Yedder, Moffi, Gouiri, Habib Diallo, Lautaro Martinez, Boulaye Dia and more.
Plenty of average strikers score goals, which is why, when scouting a young striker, you don't necessarily look at the goals, but the combination of abilities and characteristics that player has.
For a 20 year old, Højlund has all of it that can potentially be nurtured and making him an elite striker. He has the potential to explode if he can improve these abilities. Most of the players that I listed above are lacking in one aspect or another (or more), but Højlund has it all. He has strength, pace, movement, the natural instincts that Cavani had, acceleration, hold-up play, link-up play, intelligence and more. This is what makes him the ideal target, and not Boulaye Dia because he scored 15 goals, and this is probably what Ten Hag sees in him too.
There is no guarantee that he will knit all this together, and that's okay because that would make him world class, but Ten Hag sees the potential in him and believes he can help him be a great striker.
Another thing people forget when thinking about signings is the mentality and attitude aspect Ten Hag is looking for in his players. Which of his transfers have looked weak mentally, bad attitude or not willing to put in the work? Absolutely none. They're all motivated, hard working, fierce and strong mentally. It would appear Højlund scores high here too.
We’re about to spend 180m
Ollie Watkins, Toney, Goncalo Ramos could be options, though I, as a Højlund sceptic, concede that it's difficult and that it might be a case of a suboptimal signing being better than no signing.
Watched some videos, wasn't impressed, couldn't help but look at videos of a striker of a similiar age we have at the club still who couldn't play for the past year or two. I'd rather have him back to be honest, the difference in quality is astonishing.
It’s not so much a case of being against him, as much as it’s “there are thousands of footballers in the world - surely one of the biggest and most famous clubs can find some untapped gems without just defaulting to about 2/3 well publicised options with no real experience that we’ll get absolutely extorted for?” It’s more a failure of scouting, planning and organisation than anything.
No I don’t know who else to sign, but I’m not paid huge sums by Manchester United to find that out, am I?
Which is a lot of money for everyone including us and has nothing to do with past spendings. We could splurge big on Osimhen or Kane but like every teams that has done something like that, you will have to compromise and not improve other areas.
Of course not, Lewandowski is one of the best strikers of his generation. You can't just pick someone who is technically excellent and expect him to be a great striker.
Osimhen is talked about in the same sentence as Kane, and he has very average technique.
You're overexaggerating regarding Højlund's technique, by the way. He's nowhere near as bad as you make him out to be.
Would Love Watkins, he’s also actually earned a move to a bigger PL club which I like with a CF especially.
Toney would be amazing at Utd imo, he’d really thrive on it I reckon, but not many seem to be talking about him due to the January ban I guess - but seems a bit short sighted.
Basically I think either of those would really fit this current Utd side and both have proven themselves in the PL and earned a step up imo.
I think a mistake that many make when reviewing these types of deals is only looking at the costs line item, not factoring in revenue gains. Business owners look at both, and also view Kane as an asset. Neither one of us know the details in rumored bids, but our chances of CL football shoot way up with Kane over 3 years vs. Hojlund. Deep runs in the CL, prize money from winning the league are all revenue boosts that potentially add upwards of 100m to the bottom line. Kane gives us a much better chance of those revenue gains than Hojlund. If Hojlund was 30m and 100k/wk, then maybe you roll the dice with him, or buy both. But the difference of only 30m between a top 3/4 no. 9 and a very raw prospect is ridiculous.
Levy will have to sell, his majority owner wants him to(reportedly), he has a price, but that will come down as we get closer to Sept 1. I just don’t see a line of analysis where you’d choose the 20 yr old, unless he’s Haaland or Mbappe, and Hojlund doesn’t have that pedigree. Ideally, you’d want both Kane and Hojlund. In a situation where you believe you are a serious contender for the league and a deep CL run, how can you rely on an unproven 20 yr old?
Isn't he one of those not well publicised options?
FFP restrictions is absolutely about past spendings.
Why do you say that? Antony went from 30k/wk to 200k/wk…
Which has nothing to do with the point made. FFP or not FFP, few clubs are able to spend 180m let alone more than 180m in a single window. 180m is a lot of money for all clubs and not spending more has nothing to do with past spendings.
Thinking I might put this thread on ignore like I did with Mount,he is starting become as unwanted from what I can see in here. Sad really because much like Mason he really wants to sign for the club as well
Can we stop with the Kane argument now? Its fairly well established Levy wont sell to us.
Its a paradox.
You have indicated that you are not indicating. Which means you have indicated.Watkins would be big price tag as Villa don't need to sell him at all,would like to see us go for Toney when ban is up in January but doubt it
Do you think other clubs are on to the negotiation tactics? Seems like it's been the same thing for every transfer:
-Known target
-Submit initial bid
-have media state that this is not only target, and others waiting in the wings if deal can't be found
-state won't go over a certain value, and there are two other targets to go after
-increase bid and reiterate through media that this is final and United are now talking to others
-close deal
-Known target
-Submit initial bid
-have media state that this is not only target, and others waiting in the wings if deal can't be found
-state won't go over a certain value, and there are two other targets to go after
-increase bid and reiterate through media that this is final and United are now talking to others
-close deal
If Kane is just about the money, then he will run his contract down and move on a free. He’d get well over 500k/wk for 4 years. He’s either wanting CL football + trophies and willing to move now and take less, or he just wants money.
As I said in another post, Antony was on 30k in wages at Ajax and is on 200k now. I don’t see a scenario where a 70m transfer and starting CF is making less than Malacia…
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