It's cringe worthy for me to see fellow reds in their ignorant bliss talking so highly of RVP. The guy has led us a merry dance this season. I've shelled out a lot of money this season to watch an underperforming team and RVP sulking and basically refusing to play. If anyone thinks that he has been sidelined with injuries all season then you are mistaken. It was basically hinted at by Moyes in the media anyway, but RVP has wrapped himself in cotton wool for the world cup and basically wasn't interested when things were going badly on the pitch. I fecking hate the guy.
Robin van Persie | 2012-14 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Bit unfair! He's human and has been professional. This season is so disappointing no one player or fan knows how to respond, or feel. RvP since coming to United has always been a happy chap as he's winning and he respected Fergie. All of a sudden, he's to be managed by someone who's goal was to draw, without the mentality of a United person. And you blame him, even he has not really done anything wrong or out of order. Not sure what you expect of him when there's light on the other side of the tunnel, it's natural he's happy again.
I do hear about certain elements in footballers' personal lives but it's not an information I go and search for.hmmm.... and your friends would be right!I guess you are only interested in the footballing side of Man United. One of the reasons by I like reading autobiographies maybe because of my personal interest. I was competitive in playing sports (still competitive now but have other priorities in life
Wish I had more time reading though....
Moyes can hint at what he wants in the media, he did so to his benefit all season anyway. He's a total wanker that was internally despised for that very reason. I couldn't care less what he "hints" at.
As for Van Persie, he's been injured, and I'm going to give these players the credit they deserve and assume that this is the case. It takes a special kind of supporter to actively believe that the players were purposely rendering themselves unfit when they were not. Again, like with Rio, if the boot fits an' all.
Like all of the players, Van Persie looked to actively try whilst playing, he was merely the victim of the moronity in charge. As for "refusing" to play, you're just making that up to fulfil an agenda.
'Internally despised'. You're making that up to fulfil an agenda.
I'm not making anything up, I just happen to know a bit more detail about the situation and it's driving me mad to see how much people are dick riding RVP. It's like knowing that your best mate's bird has been cheating on him and having to listen to him go on about how great she is and how much he loves her.
Is this another person claiming to be itk basically? Funny.
Rvp has scored 18 goals this season, in around 25 appearances. That's a great goalscoring record. Sure by the end it seemed like he wasn't trying but it doesn't help at all when the managers shite tactics isolates you up front and uses a player like van persie as a target man, what do you want him to do? Moyes was shit for everyone and everyone's game suffered because of it. It's not fair to say people weren't trying because they clearly were. They just played like shit because of the system they were played in and everything was so disjointed, and clearly nobody wanted moyes here anymore.
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He was absolutely despised by everyone at MUTV, they couldn't stand him. As for the general staff at Carrington, let's just say the word 'cnut' was used a lot. So no it isn't made up at all.
Also, on the basis of the 'kept himself fit for the world cup' ... It's his last chance. Under Van Gaal they have a decent chance as no one stands out this year... I'd be doing the same if I had fecking Moyes as my manager. Id make it known I wanted out and I'd make sure I was fit.
Can you elaborate on the bolded part, mate.
Call it what you like, it's clear that the players, including Saint. Ryan, had no time for the bloke. Moyes was saying silly things about a good number of them all season, so you can understand my inclination to ignore any of his directives towards his pals in the press.
As for Van Persie, you're letting on that you know more than the average fan. Perhaps you do, but whether it be Van Persie, Rooney or Ashley Young, I'm going to give them the credit their previous professionalism, in this regard, deserves. I really do doubt that Van Persie was fully fit and was refusing to play.
I don't think RVP faked injuries and I don't think he necessarily set out to undermine Moyes. But to me the players didn't look motivated this season. You know when things aren't going well at work and you don't like your boss and you disagree with the decisions that are being taken. You stop giving a shit and just go through the motions. At this level it only has to be a small decline in effort, it'll make a big difference. I think there's been a bit of that. The players were underwhelmed, unmotivated, they were trying but not enough. Maybe RVP a little more than some but he wasn't the only one, each player will respond differently.
I don't think it was as malicious as is being made out. In fact it was inevitable. After SAF the players were always going to be flat. But Moyes' job was to motivate them, to minimise the SAF hangover. He was unable to do it, he had to go.
I don't think it was as malicious as is being made out. In fact it was inevitable. After SAF the players were always going to be flat. But Moyes' job was to motivate them, to minimise the SAF hangover. He was unable to do it, he had to go.
I don't think he faked injuries but he was always sulking and acting like a spoilt child which I wasn't happy about. Not just going to excuse it because it's van Persie.
Wooooo. ITK! Do go on
Uh-oh, you jumped the shark...
That's a fair summary, I think.
Now, one can choose to big up the one factor (Moyes' failure) or the other (the players not dealing brilliantly with SAF leaving) - and the truth will lie somewhere in between, as always. I think it's evident they didn't give it a 100% at all times - and I'm fairly certain some of them never gave Moyes half a chance.
It doesn't really matter now, because at the end of the day it was Moyes' battle to win - and like you said he failed to win them over. And beyond the fact - or apparent fact - that they didn't like him very much is the possibility that he simply wasn't up to the task on a general level. So I won't moan too loudly about player power and whatnot. But I will not fawn over these players either. They have nothing to be proud of no matter how you look at it.
If they gave their all it sure as feck didn't look like it. And the idea we have a brilliant squad who anyone but an utter plonker would've guided safely to a top four finish - is all the more ludicrous. If these players were 100% committed throughout the season, then the only conclusion is that they're a bit shite. Moyes' set-up wasn't that different from Fergie's. He may have been cautious, pragmatic, negative, cowardly - call it what you will. But the way he set up the team wasn't radically different from what these players were accustomed to.
And in all honesty I'll wait for some more stories to come out about what actually went down before I proceed to get all warm and fuzzy over Van Persie's smile.
The funny thing is, in true ITK fashion, I've been told not to repeat a lot of the stuff I've been told this season. I've let it be known that the Moyes' have been family friends since he was at Everton though, so this isn't some tie that I've suddenly just made up and I don't generally make a big deal of it or pretend to know about transfers and that sort of stuff (until today, funnily enough. But Bob Cass has beat me to it
).Regarding RVP, what I've said pretty much sums up the situation and if you can be bothered you could read back to the beginning of the season and see that I said the same things way before things turned sour for Moyes. So it's not like I'm just saying this now to try and get attention or shift the blame off Moyes. It just genuinely is annoying me because I've heard some stories and I just wish everyone knew/believed what I say so that the more important discussions could happen on here. But trust me, everything is not rosy at Old Trafford right now.
Anyone that thinks it's bollocks, fair enough. But imagine if you knew bad things about the club you love and you see people idolising players that are turning the club sour from the inside. I actually wish I hadn't heard some of the stuff. Ignorance really is bliss in this case.
/dramaqueen rant
EDIT: One thing that I will say is that Rooney really liked Moyes and he asked Moyes to go public with what is happening. Moyes wouldn't ever do that and he lost his job in the end anyway. But they seem to think it will come out in the media soon enough anyway.
You may have one side of a story. That's never enough.
You could start by actually saying what you know or claim to.The funny thing is, in true ITK fashion, I've been told not to repeat a lot of the stuff I've been told this season. I've let it be known that the Moyes' have been family friends since he was at Everton though, so this isn't some tie that I've suddenly just made up and I don't generally make a big deal of it or pretend to know about transfers and that sort of stuff (until today, funnily enough. But Bob Cass has beat me to it
Regarding RVP, what I've said pretty much sums up the situation and if you can be bothered you could read back to the beginning of the season and see that I said the same things way before things turned sour for Moyes. So it's not like I'm just saying this now to try and get attention or shift the blame off Moyes. It just genuinely is annoying me because I've heard some stories and I just wish everyone knew/believed what I say so that the more important discussions could happen on here. But trust me, everything is not rosy at Old Trafford right now.
Anyone that thinks it's bollocks, fair enough. But imagine if you knew bad things about the club you love and you see people idolising players that are turning the club sour from the inside. I actually wish I hadn't heard some of the stuff. Ignorance really is bliss in this case.
/dramaqueen rant
EDIT: One thing that I will say is that Rooney really liked Moyes and he asked Moyes to go public with what is happening. Moyes wouldn't ever do that and he lost his job in the end anyway. But they seem to think it will come out in the media soon enough anyway.
True enough. It seems like a divided camp at the moment though and to hear Rooney is telling Moyes to go public on what some of his team mates are doing just says it all really. Did I just read Bob Cass had said that Fergie is being forced out of the picture also? Seriously, we're turning into a complete circus.
I had a quick look to see how prophetic you were at the start of the season. You said in October you just thought he was lacking form. When did the family friends start telling stories?
Would Rooney advocating going public on players still at the club be any less dickish then you're accusing Van Persie of being?
Of course Rooney really liked Moyes. Had Fergie not retired, he'd have been out of the club, and possibly the country. Or Chelsea would have won the league on the back of his goals.
As I said, I promised I'd never pass on most of what I've been told and I haven't done for the most part. I've instead passed them off as my own opinions instead of 'I've been told that...'. I've mentioned the RVP thing a few times in this thread and the Unpopular Opinions thread without going into too much detail.
Regarding Rooney, this was before Moyes was sacked.
A fit, motivated RVP is going to be a massive asset next season. When all is said and done that's all that really matters now. It's interesting to read the accusations being implied above, like you say maybe it'll come out in the media and we'll be able to actually discuss it. Till then I'll just hope for a great season for RVP next year.
So basically you're biased because you feel let down after paying a lot of money to watch the team. You want someone to blame and anyone with apparent 'laziness' will get the brunt of it.
Van Persie is one of many players who looked dejected this season (and still got 18 goals to his credit.) If he was alone looking like that you would have a valid point but you don't because he wasn't. Pretty much the entire team looked lost.
I'm not even condoning the behaviour of any of the players this season. They definitely are poor in terms of their mentally. However, you and many other seem to have bizarre high expectations for footballers, who are rightly famous for being immature and down-right intellectually poor. Frankly, I view them a bit like children and probably always will do. The MANAGER keeps these 'children' under control. The MANAGER tells the players how to play and why they're playing that way. The MANAGER disciplines the players who step out of line or don't perform as he expects.
Put the brunt of the blame where it belongs and stop scapegoating the wrong people.
I'm only discussing RVP because he was being discussed in this thread. As I said, it just drives me mad to see people talking about him as if he's some sort of hero when he's apparently let us down big time this season. In all fairness, he's nowhere near the worst culprit at the moment, I just can't be bothered to make a big deal over it and drag it all up. At the end of the day, I just hope that the new manager sorts this shit out. I wouldn't be surprised if he's faced with resistance though if he does try to do so.
The manager, as you said, has a large responsibility for his players. But you're incredibly naive if you think that one man can just control a group of grown men if they genuinely have other ideas. Especially ones that hold a bit of weight at the club and are also amongst the ones to be moved on soon by the manager in question. All I'm saying though is that the Moyes situation has been dealt with now, but the show isn't over yet. People are trying to bury their head in the sand and put everything down to one man when there's a lot more to it.
If you want to pretend everything is ok then fair enough, crack on. I just know that there are things that have gone on behind the scenes which have undermined one manager and probably will the next if they don't deal with it. I don't want that to happen, but unfortuantely the club seems to now be in the hands of an incompetent idiot that is letting his playing staff run the show (literally).
Why don't you tell us in the general forum what's been going on...
Your 'information' doesn't seem to go back as far as you claim.
Does it matter when he wanted it to be released? If it was true do you think it was any less of a power play than you seem to be accusing others of?
I never suggested otherwise. I'm only too aware that if the dressing room is lost, the manager has absolutely no chance. Hence why I was so bemused by the suggestions that Moyes would have to literally build his own team, like as if that was ever a logical solution for any team anywhere. If the manager doesn't have the players on his side after being with them for 6 months (at least over 50% of them) then he's failed at his job as far as I'm concerned, simple as that. United made a critical mistake in appointing someone who the players quite clearly just didn't rate. No different than the Leeds players being resistant to Clough being appointed in 1974 given the huge difference of mentality between them. Or Hodgson at Liverpool and so on.
That said, Moyes could still have done something about the dressing room situation but he didn't because he's spineless in my observation. He just snuggled up to Rooney and continued with his old stale methods without ever considering that HE might need be the one to change, rather than the players. I could go on about the Moyes debacle but it's not the thread for it. I've got too many reasons to blame Moyes over the players.
I don't blame the players for their reaction at all, not on principle. They're winners, he's not and it was always going to end in tears.
Who's the incompetent idiot?
I have no doubts that there are things behind the scenes that need fixed. However those things are not the fundamental problem causing 90% of the poor performances on the pitch. Moyes was causing it. Fix the manager position and we'll be fine. We can then move on to the other issues.
Blah blah blah. My God will everyone just give it a break. We will get a new manager, hopefully LVG. He will sort things out and we should give him our support.
After last season he will have more power and the underperforming players less, thus he can keep and get rid of players with impunity.
If Rooney and RVP cant get along he will get rid of one of them.
Moyes is in the past and anything he says going forward will have little effect.
A new dawn beckons to heck with old conspiracy theories.
After last season he will have more power and the underperforming players less, thus he can keep and get rid of players with impunity.
If Rooney and RVP cant get along he will get rid of one of them.
Moyes is in the past and anything he says going forward will have little effect.
A new dawn beckons to heck with old conspiracy theories.
Well it is a forum. Tends to be a bit text heavy.
I understand forums are a form of escapism and I too love debates but I think we just need to wait and see who will be the manager and his first moves. Then we will have more than enough topics for debate.
Classic Robin. Same should have happened against Real, but somehow it didn't.
Loved that goal.
If the manager is wrong then you can't expect him to get unquestioning obedience. Moyes created a lot of the issues with his, alleged, approach, tactics and obvious favouritism.
You've been told...? Well there are two sides to every story, right? Maybe before making up your mind about who is right and who is wrong you should consider why so many turned against Moyes. Especially among the senior pros who, to date, had no issues working with their managers at United, other clubs or at international level.
Rooney may have supported Moyes but he had 300k reasons and the promise of the captaincy to do so. If Moyes was a victim it's because he made himself one. The players didn't turn against him immediately, by all accounts. The fact his staunchest supporter ended up being the guy who didn't celebrate with the rest of the players at Swansea says a lot. Amazing how one player, apparently, turned up worse for wear for training and went unpunished. But the likes of Welbz, the easy targets, got fined for a night out on their day off. How to make friends...
Bottom line is, when Moyes needed him to, RVP showed up against Olympiakos. The way we played under Moyes was never gonna get the best out of him. We're already seeing under Van Gaal how the right coaching will affect his performances next year.
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You're seriously bringing up that Madrid match?
He's got some serious tekkers. Imagine Scholes playing that kind of ball to him week in week out.
Bergkampesque.
I expect Robin to finish these type of chances all the time. His standards are just that high.
Relax, I'm not criticizing him, it just happened to be the first thought that crossed my mind. Very similar course of action.
Jeez he makes that look so effortless.
Bit of help from the Ecuador defence's terrible positioning in terms of the run, but the finish is all textbook RVP. Perfect chest; perfect balance for the swivel; emphatic, clean finish.
Bit of help from the Ecuador defence's terrible positioning in terms of the run, but the finish is all textbook RVP. Perfect chest; perfect balance for the swivel; emphatic, clean finish.
so what's ITK ?
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