Ronaldo Watch

[Snake Plissken]

His touch and skill is superb, when Giggs was a flying winger we would've never guessed how he'd reinvent himself, I just think you're hugely underrating Ronaldo's ability as a footballer.

they are. But pace is really crucial to his game.

He almost relies solely on pace to beat players now for example. Thats why I think he'd drop a few levels in his 'current' role without his lighting pace.

Just speculating though, no-one really knows what will happen to any of these players in the future.

 

[Cal?]

I can't think of anyone apart from the rival fans here who were delighted for Barca.

Seriously.

They were just delighted for Messi.

 

[Wonder Pigeon]

Sure they were Cal. Sure they were.

 

[golden_blunder]

Ronnie will become Drogaesque in his mid thirties, he will still do te business pace or no pace

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

Sure they were Cal. Sure they were.

He's so mentally tortured by Messi that he's hallucinating and making things up.

The nurse needs to administer his meds again soon.

 

[Cold_Boy]

You can bet your bollocks to a barn dance that if Madrid end up playing Utd in next seasons CL, and Ronaldo put Utd to the sword with a couple of goals, that really would soften the blow for Cal big time

It would be like "aahhhh, its so sad that we're out, but you just can't compete with the genius of Ronaldo, those muscular thighs were just too much for our lads. I'm away for a cry wank"

I can actually imagine this.

 

[Marcosdeto]

They were just delighted for Messi.

you have no moral authority to use the word "fanboy" because if there's ever been one, you are the biggest

 

[EB100]

If he scores another in the semi's , will it make him the front runner for Balon D'or?

A lot of people forget that the Ballon D'or is an award for the best player over the year. In other words, you have to have actually convinced those voting that you are the best player on the planet over the year in order to be voted. The trophies you win is an important determinant, but its not absolute... that's why you've had cases like 1999 when Rivaldo won it having won just a la liga and yet you had a couple of top performers at United who won a treble. Or in 2010 when Sneijder, Xavi, Iniesta, Milito, etc won a lot of trophies but quite clearly weren't anywhere near Messi for the best player in the world title.

So its kind of funny how Ronaldo sympathisers think his teams winning trophies should somehow save him from the fact that he hasn't been the best player on the planet so far this year. He still has half a year to outshine Messi, and if he does, he'll have a very good chance - otherwise, its unlikely he'll win it because he won't have convinced enough voters that he was the best player on the planet.

 

[Brwned]

Ronnie will become Drogaesque in his mid thirties, he will still do te business pace or no pace

Absolutely, and if Drogba can still score 37 goals (in 44 games) at the age of 32 then Ronaldo can still be breaking scoring records in his 30s. Eusebio scored over 40 goals in his 30s and I believe Ronaldo'll be doing the same. He keeps himself in tremendous shape as well, he'll still have his pace in his 30s no doubt.

 

[Snow]

A lot of people forget that the Ballon D'or is an award for the best player over the year. In other words, you have to have actually convinced those voting that you are the best player on the planet over the year in order to be voted. The trophies you win is an important determinant, but its not absolute... that's why you've had cases like 1999 when Rivaldo won it having won just a la liga and yet you had a couple of top performers at United who won a treble. Or in 2010 when Sneijder, Xavi, Iniesta, Milito, etc won a lot of trophies but quite clearly weren't anywhere near Messi for the best player in the world title.

So its kind of funny how Ronaldo sympathisers think his teams winning trophies should somehow save him from the fact that he hasn't been the best player on the planet so far this year. He still has half a year to outshine Messi, and if he does, he'll have a very good chance - otherwise, its unlikely he'll win it because he won't have convinced enough voters that he was the best player on the planet.

You do know that some people vote based on politics. Then you've got some people in Africa still voting Eto'o or Drogba the best player. There were some that didn't even vote for Messi or Ronaldo in their top 3 and you can bet that some people, when they vote, they vote for either Messi or Ronaldo and then exclude the other from the top 3 as to not give him any points.

 

[JB7]

Messi's a better player. He's also a team player...no doubt he'd rip up the Prem playing for United. I suspect if you asked any manager including Fergie...which player they'd like to sign..given the chance...Ronaldo would be a distant second choice behind Messi.

Ah the ol' "Ronaldo can do it for United but Messi can't BS".

Messi would be an undoubted star here. Nobody in their right senses would choose Ronaldo over Messi given the choice.

I never said Ronaldo was better, or that I would sign him ahead of Messi. I pointed out that Ronaldo would probably fit in to the current team quicker as he already knows the players and gameplan, whereas as Messi does not. How can you argue with that? Not to mention his style as a player is more suited to our direct, fast paced attacking. That isn't a criticism of Messi, that is talking about the style of player - nothing to do with ability whatsoever. Messi would of course be incredible for United, or any other team for that matter.

I hate the fact that you have to be in one camp of Ronaldo OR Messi and can't point out facts about either of them without being some kind of fanboy one way or another. Messi is unreal, quite probably the best player the world has ever seen, but that doesn't mean you can't also recognise that Ronaldo is also phenomenal, one of the most effective players you are ever going to see. Why can't people just appreciate both players?!

 

[Raoul]

Ronaldo will definitely stay on top of his game will into his 30s. Although, it will be mainly has a striker.

 

[Cheesy]

A lot of people forget that the Ballon D'or is an award for the best player over the year. In other words, you have to have actually convinced those voting that you are the best player on the planet over the year in order to be voted. The trophies you win is an important determinant, but its not absolute... that's why you've had cases like 1999 when Rivaldo won it having won just a la liga and yet you had a couple of top performers at United who won a treble. Or in 2010 when Sneijder, Xavi, Iniesta, Milito, etc won a lot of trophies but quite clearly weren't anywhere near Messi for the best player in the world title.

So its kind of funny how Ronaldo sympathisers think his teams winning trophies should somehow save him from the fact that he hasn't been the best player on the planet so far this year. He still has half a year to outshine Messi, and if he does, he'll have a very good chance - otherwise, its unlikely he'll win it because he won't have convinced enough voters that he was the best player on the planet.

I agree with you on that one. A lot of the time if a player leads his team to glory then it will help, but ultimately it is the award for the best player. Trophies can enhance a players chances, but in this case, Messi should still be getting it, since he's been the better player than Ronaldo this year, despite the fact that Ronaldo has won a league title and still has a small chance of winning the Euros.

 

[kouroux]

Less insufferable than all the Messi fanbois who were all so delighted when Barca beat United at Wembley.

In which dimension were United fans happy to see Messi beat United in the CL final ? Do you really convince yourself of that ?

 

[EB100]

You do know that some people vote based on politics. Then you've got some people in Africa still voting Eto'o or Drogba the best player. There were some that didn't even vote for Messi or Ronaldo in their top 3 and you can bet that some people, when they vote, they vote for either Messi or Ronaldo and then exclude the other from the top 3 as to not give him any points.

Oh yeah, that's true in any election, but I'm talking about the aggregate judgment which I would think would almost all the time be a vote for the best player in the world. Another thing is the likability factor... that absolutely plays a part where human beings are involved and Ronaldo for sure doesn't help himself by always showing his supreme arrogance. If Messi wasn't there, his arrogance wouldn't matter as it wouldn't be close, but because Messi's there, he'll probably only ever beat Messi in a close call in which case likability points would cost him.

 

[Mockney]

I just watched James Richardson's paper review and lolled at the bit where he said..

"The massive ego was the Oranje's problem, say the dutch press... and the Portuguese press agree, here he is [lifting up the paper] Ronaldo!.."

 

[MrMarcello]

A lot of people forget that the Ballon D'or is an award for the best player over the year. In other words, you have to have actually convinced those voting that you are the best player on the planet over the year in order to be voted. The trophies you win is an important determinant, but its not absolute... that's why you've had cases like 1999 when Rivaldo won it having won just a la liga and yet you had a couple of top performers at United who won a treble. Or in 2010 when Sneijder, Xavi, Iniesta, Milito, etc won a lot of trophies but quite clearly weren't anywhere near Messi for the best player in the world title.

So its kind of funny how Ronaldo sympathisers think his teams winning trophies should somehow save him from the fact that he hasn't been the best player on the planet so far this year. He still has half a year to outshine Messi, and if he does, he'll have a very good chance - otherwise, its unlikely he'll win it because he won't have convinced enough voters that he was the best player on the planet.

Hogwash. It comes down to popularity voting. Rivaldo was the best player on the planet in 1999 but also had the fortunes of La Liga not blocking their highlights/matches like the Premiership did. Look at 2004 when Henry was hands down the best player on the planet yet Ronaldhino won the popularity contest for FIFA and somehow Shevchenko took the Ballon d'Or inexplicably. Then somehow Cannavaro beat Ronaldhino out in 2006 despite the latter having dominated his league and won a double, but the WC performance of Italy trumpeted Brazil's showing, unjustly. In 2002, Ronaldo was not better over the course of the calender year than Kahn, Ballack, Ruud, Zidane, yet he scored some goals at the WC and took the popularity contest as sort of a "great comeback" sympathy. Zidane better than Nedved in 2003? Not a chance.

Sneijder led Inter to a treble and then almost single-handily guided Holland to a World Cup triumph, that's more than enough to earn accolades. Yet Messi was the popular choice and will always be because players and managers are a) thick, b) hold grudges, and c) don't really watch the sport but they know the big names. Messi will win for ten years in a row at this rate whether he deserves it or not.

 

[EB100]

Less insufferable than all the Messi fanbois who were all so delighted when Barca beat United at Wembley.

No doubt that's what you hallucinated that day because Messi killing us to lift the trophy tore you to shreds inside more than the fact that United lost.

 

[Zen]

Ronaldo won't win the Ballon d'Or unless he wins this Euros, and pretty much deserved so. He'll be the closest he's ever been to Messi though.....though I guess voters can get bored of voting the same guy(happens in every sport, NBA got bored of voting for Jordan etc), so he'll probably get them anyway.

The reason why big games don't matter as much now is because Messi/Ronaldo/Xavi play at such a ridiculous high level consistently throughout the season that doing it in the big games and a few others just isn't enough to prove you're the best. Sneijder wasn't that great for Inter in 09/10 on a whole season basis, but was great in the World Cup and few CL games etc. Margins are so close.

 

[EB100]

Hogwash. It comes down to popularity voting. Rivaldo was the best player on the planet in 1999 but also had the fortunes of La Liga not blocking their highlights/matches like the Premiership did. Look at 2004 when Henry was hands down the best player on the planet yet Ronaldhino won the popularity contest for FIFA and somehow Shevchenko took the Ballon d'Or inexplicably. Then somehow Cannavaro beat Ronaldhino out in 2006 despite the latter having dominated his league and won a double, but the WC performance of Italy trumpeted Brazil's showing, unjustly. In 2002, Ronaldo was not better over the course of the calender year than Kahn, Ballack, Ruud, Zidane, yet he scored some goals at the WC and took the popularity contest as sort of a "great comeback" sympathy. Zidane better than Nedved in 2003? Not a chance.

Sneijder led Inter to a treble and then almost single-handily guided Holland to a World Cup triumph, that's more than enough to earn accolades. Yet Messi was the popular choice and will always be because players and managers are a) thick, b) hold grudges, and c) don't really watch the sport but they know the big names. Messi will win for ten years in a row at this rate whether he deserves it or not.

Messi won his ballon d'ors because he was the best player in the world in each of those years... that's an almost indisputable fact. It is okay, though, for you to think Sneijder was a better player than Messi in 2010, but its not okay for you to think your judgement should be the final verdict and that all those coaches and players are idiots in love with Messi just because they didn't share your reasoning. All my post was saying is that the ballon d'or is meant to be awarded to the best player over the entire year, and that trophies is not an absolute determinant of that as many people seem to think.

And your conspiracy theories on why whoever won in whichever year yet somebody else should have won it don't sound convincing to put it mildly. It sounds like you're just finding it hard coming to terms with the fact that the voters didn't share your judgement.

 

[swooshboy]

they are. But pace is really crucial to his game.

He almost relies solely on pace to beat players now for example. Thats why I think he'd drop a few levels in his 'current' role without his lighting pace.

Just speculating though, no-one really knows what will happen to any of these players in the future.

Many of his goals are much less about pace, then they are instinct and awareness.

His goal against the Czech was the perfect example.

 

[MrMarcello]

Messi won his ballon d'ors because he was the best player in the world in each of those years... that's an almost indisputable fact. It is okay, though, for you to think Sneijder was a better player than Messi in 2010, but its not okay for you to think your judgement should be the final verdict and that all those coaches and players are idiots in love with Messi just because they didn't share your reasoning. All my post was saying is that the ballon d'or is meant to be awarded to the best player over the entire year, and that trophies is not an absolute determinant of that as many people seem to think.

And your conspiracy theories on why whoever won in whichever year yet somebody else should have won it don't sound convincing to put it mildly. It sounds like you're just finding it hard coming to terms with the fact that the voters didn't share your judgement.

So you're claiming these awards are not popularity contests? Have a look at the voting choices of some of these players. Clear as day some vote for their club/country mates, others choose the biggest names, etc.

I'm not the only person on this board, or on this planet, that has argued against players winning awards. If it is for BPITW, then it should be renamed. For me, and others and seemingly why awards exist, it is often for players that drove their club/country to success, not scored 50 goals and finished with zero trophies. Furthermore, you say trophies are not the overriding factor... explain Ronaldo in 2002, Cannovaro in 2006... I'm sure I can find a few more if you would like.

 

[EB100]

So you're claiming these awards are not popularity contests? Have a look at the voting choices of some of these players. Clear as day some vote for their club/country mates, others choose the biggest names, etc.

I'm not the only person on this board, or on this planet, that has argued against players winning awards. If it is for BPITW, then it should be renamed. For me, and others and seemingly why awards exist, it is often for players that drove their club/country to success, not scored 50 goals and finished with zero trophies. Furthermore, you say trophies are not the overriding factor... explain Ronaldo in 2002, Cannovaro in 2006... I'm sure I can find a few more if you would like.

What do you mean it should be renamed? It is a fact that it is for the best player over the entire year. It is also a fact that, while trophies are a factor, they are not an absolute factor. These are plain facts, you can read for yourself what the award is about. If you thought all this time that the ballon d'or is won on trophies, then unfortunately you thought wrong.

As for some people voting stupidly, you're right. But that's the nature of any vote on anything where human being are involved; the good thing is that there's so many coaches and players voting that the aggregate vote will in all likelihood be for the best player in the world. Would you prefer that a few corruptible individuals on some FIFA board decide? Being voted the best by your fellow pros is the best option, makes the most sense, is the fairest, and you just have to make peace with it and stop thinking everything should go the way you or other fans see fit.

 

[MrMarcello]

Obviously I never thought it was voted on trophies alone, be realistic instead of attempting to fit additional words in a retort.

However, trophies would come into play in my decision for voting players when I feel certain ones have been just as influential in club/country success and not just in the goal-scoring department. For 2012, if Ronaldo helps Portugal get to the Euro final/win the tournament, he surges past Messi in my voting process. Simply his contributions allowed his club to win the league (over Messi's club) and go quite far in an international competition, and he should be rightly awarded in such case (I'd say the club triumphs alone should hedge him ahead). Same in 2010 when Sneijder led Inter to a treble, and the likes of Iniesta and Xavi shared domestic success with Messi but led Spain to a World Cup triumph. But the popularity contest won it for Messi (obviously scoring goals sets one apart in many minds).

This does not render Messi no longer the BPITW.

 

[EB100]

I did not fit additional words, I responded to exactly what you said. You were even arguing that the ballon d'or should be renamed if it is for best player over the year, as if that's not what its for. Trophies do come into play, and I have no doubt many actually voting think the way you do about Ronaldo V Messi and will vote accordingly. Other people will feel differently because of Messi's phenomenal record breaking year and what not. But that's exactly what a vote is for - the problem comes when people think their judgement should be the ultimate one like you seem to think, branding other outcomes as idiotic and the result of a "popularity contest". In fact, fans are far more likely to have opinions based on popularity than coaches and professional players.

 

[kouroux]

Even if he loses pace, I think Ronaldo will do well because he's a very intelligent player.One aspect of his game that doesn't get mentioned enough is how intelligent he really is

 

[Adzzz]

I think he'll knock Spain out.

 

[Ash_G]

Even if he loses pace, I think Ronaldo will do well because he's a very intelligent player.One aspect of his game that doesn't get mentioned enough is how intelligent he really is

Yeah I think people underestimate his football intelligence. His awareness is quality and he has better passing than he's credited for.

 

[kouroux]

His last goal is a good example, the way he made his runs, got in front of the Czech RB is like a pure striker's movement inside the box

 

[NM]

Even if he loses pace, I think Ronaldo will do well because he's a very intelligent player.One aspect of his game that doesn't get mentioned enough is how intelligent he really is

I may be wrong, but I think he already has lost some of his pace and explosiveness. I think he may just play as a striker towards the end of his career because of it.

 

[MrMarcello]

Well the current Ballon award is the combined FIFA/Ballon d'Or, and having seen previous FIFA balloting results, that award had become a joke according to many posters. Many perceived the prior Ballon d'Or as often the right selection, more so than the FIFA hype/popularity award. The UEFA Best Player award might go the route of the old Ballon d'Or, which often picked the player many felt was the overall best/most influential player, but sometimes did pick who performed the best on the international stage (usually World Cup, sometimes Euros), hence there being a different winner in many years from 1994 to 2004.

I was never under the assumption the awards were for the actual BPITW seeing as to the BPITW didn't always win the awards, but for the player amongst many choices that had a great calender year and elevated his club/country to lofty heights in the process, a most valuable player award if you will. Rename it the BPITW trophy if that is indeed what is for and give it to Messi for the next ten years.

There are years when popularity seem to prevail (Figo 2001, Ronaldo 2002, Zidane 2003). Check out who voted for whom, some even voting for their own club/country mates or even random players. And players that leave off a Messi or Ronaldo are clearly either supporting another player for whatever perceived reason, or holding a grudge/aiding another in the voting process. Players and coaches may not be fanatics like fans but plenty still have similar emotions, views, etc.

And for you accuse me of my judgment should prevail when you are arguing for your judgment as the right one, and it's just my opinion as I'm not writing FIFA and UEFA to change things. Pot meet kettle, eh?

 

[Cheesy]

Even if he loses pace, I think Ronaldo will do well because he's a very intelligent player.One aspect of his game that doesn't get mentioned enough is how intelligent he really is

I agree with you there. Once he loses some of his pace, I can see him becoming more of a goalscoring striker. He's deadly in front of goal, and won't show any signs even then of being less clinical in my opinion.

As well as that though, if the goals did dry up, I think it would be interesting to see him as a more out and out winger again, like he was in his earlier days with us.

 

[kouroux]

I agree with you there. Once he loses some of his pace, I can see him becoming more of a goalscoring striker. He's deadly in front of goal, and won't show any signs even then of being less clinical in my opinion.

As well as that though, if the goals did dry up, I think it would be interesting to see him as a more out and out winger again, like he was in his earlier days with us.

It'd be interesting but it wouldn't work out well IMHO because as a winger he'll have to be able to use trickery to beat his man or has a great crossing ability.
He's got neither in his impressive football toolbox

I may be wrong, but I think he already has lost some of his pace and explosiveness. I think he may just play as a striker towards the end of his career because of it.

You're not wrong.He isn't the same explosive player he used to be.

 

[EB100]

Well the current Ballon award is the combined FIFA/Ballon d'Or, and having seen previous FIFA balloting results, that award had become a joke according to many posters. Many perceived the prior Ballon d'Or as often the right selection, more so than the FIFA hype/popularity award. The UEFA Best Player award might go the route of the old Ballon d'Or, which often picked the player many felt was the overall best/most influential player, but sometimes did pick who performed the best on the international stage (usually World Cup, sometimes Euros), hence there being a different winner in many years from 1994 to 2004.

I was never under the assumption the awards were for the actual BPITW seeing as to the BPITW didn't always win the awards, but for the player amongst many choices that had a great calender year and elevated his club/country to lofty heights in the process, a most valuable player award if you will. Rename it the BPITW trophy if that is indeed what is for and give it to Messi for the next ten years.

There are years when popularity seem to prevail (Figo 2001, Ronaldo 2002, Zidane 2003). Check out who voted for whom, some even voting for their own club/country mates or even random players. And players that leave off a Messi or Ronaldo are clearly either supporting another player for whatever perceived reason, or holding a grudge/aiding another in the voting process. Players and coaches may not be fanatics like fans but plenty still have similar emotions, views, etc.

And for you accuse me of my judgment should prevail when you are arguing for your judgment as the right one, and it's just my opinion as I'm not writing FIFA and UEFA to change things. Pot meet kettle, eh?

You're not writing to FIFA but you're questioning the whole voting process and calling the voters idiots just because the vote didn't turn out the way you saw fit. That's thinking your judgement is absolute. And we've already litigated your second and third paragraphs, you tried to back away from some of those assertions, and yet you're bringing them up again, don't get it.

Also, you keep mentioning it should just be handed to Messi for ten years... it appears you just have a problem with Messi winning it to much.

 

[MrMarcello]

You're not writing to FIFA but you're questioning the whole voting process and calling the voters idiots just because the vote didn't turn out the way you saw fit. That's thinking your judgement is absolute. And we've already litigated your second and third paragraphs, you tried to back away from some of those assertions, and yet you're bringing them up again, don't get it.

Also, you keep mentioning it should just be handed to Messi for ten years... it appears you just have a problem with Messi winning it to much.

I called voters idiots? Where? Seems you have this fascination with making stuff up to make your points appease others.

Messi is going to be the BPITW for quite some time. And if the award is for BPITW and not the most influential/valuable player during the calender year, then it should be his. Don't see how that translates to having a problem with Messi. In other words, you're talking some shit.

 

[EB100]

Sneijder led Inter to a treble and then almost single-handily guided Holland to a World Cup triumph, that's more than enough to earn accolades. Yet Messi was the popular choice and will always be because players and managers are a) thick, b) hold grudges, and c) don't really watch the sport but they know the big names. Messi will win for ten years in a row at this rate whether he deserves it or not.

I called voters idiots? Where? Seems you have this fascination with making stuff up to make your points appease others.

Messi is going to be the BPITW for quite some time. And if the award is for BPITW and not the most influential/valuable player during the calender year, then it should be his. Don't see how that translates to having a problem with Messi. In other words, you're talking some shit.

Right there. Post 4397 I think. To be precise you used the term thick, and you were referring to players and managers. You even suggested players/managers don't watch the sport. All because the voting wasn't as you saw fit.

And the ballon d'or is for the best player in the world over the entire year, which Messi has been judged to have been for the last three. Its very clear. The distinctions and ifs you're coming up with are your own stuff and I honestly don't understand them.

I thought you had a problem with Messi winning so much because you kept on bizarrely suggesting the award should be changed and handed to him for ten years. Maybe that was a wrong interpretation.

 

[MrMarcello]

Some players are thick, clearly, even most posters claim it on here. Rooney isn't the brightest for example. That does not mean I believe players are outright idiots.

Perhaps I'm basing awards on how it is often voted in the US, based on the most valuable players not necessarily the best player in the sport. But having seen how some FIFA/Ballon d'OR awards have been voted, the best player doesn't always win it, hence why I'm curious what the award is actually for, and if it is sometimes a popularity contest. It's not that hard to comprehend, at least from my point of view.

 

[MrMarcello]

Furthermore, if Messi is going to win the award for the next x years being the BPITW, what becomes the purpose of the award if everyone knows who will win it?

 

[Cheesy]

Furthermore, if Messi is going to win the award for the next x years being the BPITW, what becomes the purpose of the award if everyone knows who will win it?

The award would lose it's purpose more so if we didn't give it to whoever the best player is. People forget that to actually get the award, Messi has to play at the very top of his game and beyond. He gets the award because he earns it. Not giving it to him because he always win it would be like not giving the league title to a team who wins it because they win it every year. The best player deserves it at the end of the day. If that best player is the same person year in year out, then so be it.

 

[EB100]

Furthermore, if Messi is going to win the award for the next x years being the BPITW, what becomes the purpose of the award if everyone knows who will win it?

Why is it guaranteed he'll be the best for the next x years? He has to actually work and perform, you know? Its not automatic.