This is not an argument, Have you heard Pardew talk about football on tv these last months ? have you ever heard harry redknapp ?
I think that good punditry shouldn't be the yardstick to measure a manager's capabilities. Lippi was a great manager but his interviews (which almost always came with plenty of eye rolling and a shitty attitude that made the interviewers feel small and stupid) would make you want to punch him straight to the face. Same with Conte who is compensate for his lack of arrogance (As compared to Lippi) with a drama queen attitude.
Yep. That's exactly what I said.
my mistake it shouldn't be
but the progress for managers isn't always linnear - in any line of business. Just because one manager had to start out right from the bottom, doesn't mean all managers have to follow the same path. Fact is, how much weight do we put on the "experience" of Giggs working for over 2 decades in the presence of someone like SAF versus a manager who's done well in the Championship for a year or 2? Not to mention his shorter experiences under Moyes ("how not to be a football coach: for dummies") and LvG.So they did something before their first big job? Yes?
That's the thing, i'm not discarding what they did, just saying that there should be nuances when talking about what they did in regard to the job they were aiming for. I was part of the people that were saying that Giggs shouldn't be our Manager. if we were talking about United or another big job, i'm fully with you on the subject. but here, we're talking about Everton and Leicester, a entry + mid level job if you want.
You've summerized what i'm trying to say perfectly and in a more comprehensible way.@Mr H I think it's a bit unfair to use the example of Pep and Zidane because of the squad's they had at their disposal - not much rebuilding was required. Their clubs could take the risk, because failure was most likely not going to cost them UCL qualification, at worst. But I agree with your general point that no one knows how Giggs will fare as a manager, until given the chance/opportunity.
And if past events are true, we did actually have a succession plan of sorts, which involved handing over the reigns to Giggs (if LvG was to be believed), after LvG completed his vision and rebuild. The moment that plan didn't come to fruition and another year of not qualifying for the UCL was going to start becoming extremely costly, Jose was brought in and it's safe to say, the entire succession thinking involving Giggs was abandoned.
I'm not sure if I'm actually arguing for or against Giggs getting a EPL job
Obviously it's a massive risk appointing someone with more limited, or next to no, managerial experience, versus someone who does have experience (say Dyche or Howe). But then again, how much weight do we put down to the legend of Giggs and the respect that would command in a dressing room? It's not just any no-mark football personality.
Bottom line though seems to be that in the world of ever increasing revenues in football, the cost of failure for clubs/owners is massive. So if someone is willing to take a risk on Giggs with limited to no managerial experience, fair play to them. But if Giggs is also serious about his managerial career, and he realises that clubs are less willing to take such risks, he should maybe contemplate taking over at a smaller club/lower division in order to "earn" his shot.
Im fine by it, but let's not rewrite history that pep/zidane/jose/wenger got their job just like that.
What are those reasons?
yeah, but they were already in the clubs system when they got these jobs, the clubs knew what to expect and they also knew the squads they were going to be working with, I think it's a massive difference in promoting a coach from reserves to first team to plucking in an unknown quantity who hasn't even gone off to coach/manage anywhere else into a top level first team, you'd have to be a mental MD of a football club to go this route IMO
Not being in charge of appointing managers at football clubs I can't say for sure but I can take a good stab at it.
Good post.
Most of those examples are a long time ago. In fact, thinking about other former United players who were also assumed to have learnt from the great man, Robson, Keane and Bruce all started in the second tier. So, in an era where Sunderland got 100m PL TV money last year despite being useless and most clubs below the top few are still performing a high wire act balancing revenue with wages, the chances of Giggsy getting a gig seem remote anywhere above the Championship.
All that means nothing without the actual ability to coach and manage, the eye for talent, the tactical brain.
Give it to Giggseh til end of the season
Agree totally, and no to Keane.
Nothing against Giggs but is this a serious question?
Think it was Swansea that said no.
Swansea rejected him, despite what Giggs later said. Rejected for Bob Bradley. Ouch.
He's an unintelligent philanderer who's too arrogant to think he needs to demonstrate managerial/coaching ability?
When you're hiring someone you don't ask that question. You don't ask "why not." You ask why they'd tread a similar path to Simeone or Zidane. What evidence is there of this guy repeating what others have done. You don't bank on a gamble that came off for somebody else doing the same for you.
But why if you were running an organisation would you give the job to somebody with no experience? No record of achievement. Rather than an individual whose proven they can actually do the job in question. Makes no sense.
If you were running Barcelona in spring of 2008 would you have hired Guardiola when the likes of Mourinho were available?
