Ryan Giggs | Interviewed for Wales job

[Kag]

There's hardly any evidence to go on beyond the post-Moyes handful of games. Based on that he's mediocre but the sample size is obviously too small.

His media personality means little. You don't judge someone's potential as a manager on how he appears on TV, nor on his ability to analyze match situations in a pundit capacity (as the Nev case proves).

Yet Roy Hodgson made a judgement about Gary Neville based on his ability to analyse a match situation as a pundit. Unless you believe Neville would have been in the frame for a top coaching job in the England fold regardless? For a guy with little to no coaching experience, it was a giant leap in responsibility. And his appointment was during the initial wave of "bloody hell, isn't Neville brilliant at this punditry thing".

So, yeah, I think television is important. It might not be to you and I. And I'm sure we'll agree it's quite a shallow way in which to judge prospective managers. However, it is an opportunity for people to raise their profile and articulate their ideas. And in the case of Neville, it got him jobs. More recently, employers will be listening to the likes of Craig Bellamy on Sky Sports - The Debate, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if people are watching how well he talks about the game and forming opinions based on that.

Of course, being good or bad on television doesn't mean you're going to be good or bad at managing a team.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Yes, well, getting your mug on TV obviously raises your profile.

That doesn't mean there's any correlation between what you do on TV and your ability to do a job - unless that job is being on TV.

G. Neville was always interested in the management side of the game, as I recall - same as Butt, Phil, Giggs and Scholes. Whether he would've landed the England gig without the TV connection, I've no idea, but he probably would've done some form of AM'ing regardless (again, he was always likely to go into that in some capacity).

 

[Cascarino]

Sean dyche is the favorite for Everton.

And people are criticizing Giggs in here!

What did Dyche show to be the favorite for the Everton job?

Dyche has done a brilliant job at Burnley, he has proven himself as a solid EPL manager. There’s no comparison between him and Giggs

 

[PedroMendez]

Barca had a long relationship with pep. Same goes for Madrid and Zidane. They knew these guys. Their ideas about football, their personality, how they work on a day to day basis, how they interact with players and so on. You can bullshit on a job interview, but you can't bullshit for years.
Why would a team like Everton hire giggs, when they know almost nothing about him. The only top team that is in a position to come to any assessment about giggs capabilities as manager is Manchester united. Yet apparently he couldn't convince people around him that he is a good choice.

 

[Dobbs]

If you were running Barcelona in spring of 2008 would you have hired Guardiola when the likes of Mourinho were available?

If you were running Manchester United in 2013 would you have hired Moyes when dozens of other managers were available?

If you were running Valencia in 2015 would you have hired Neville?

And so on...

Stop pretending as if there are any set rules to who gets hired in football management. Giggs is more placed than the average caftard to analyze his chances of getting into the roles he wants without slogging down in league 2 to prove his worth to the Caf.

I'm not pretending there are rules. There obviously aren't.

There are however best practices. As demonstrated by the appointments that are made week in week out. Clubs generally give roles to guys who've proven they're at least capable of doing the job. It's best practice.

Just because sometimes those practices don't work out doesn't mean they aren't the logical way of going about it.

Two under qualified blokes in Spain got top jobs and made a success of it. Good for them. For some reason that's convinced a bunch of fans it's the best way for everyone else to go about choosing a manager. A monumental breakdown in logic.

 

[SwansonsTache]

Guy should go to a league 1 \ Championship club and prove himself like everyone else.

 

[adexkola]

I'm not pretending there are rules. There obviously aren't.

There are however best practices. As demonstrated by the appointments that are made week in week out. Clubs generally give roles to guys who've proven they're at least capable of doing the job. It's best practice.

Just because sometimes those practices don't work out doesn't mean they aren't the logical way of going about it.

Two under qualified blokes in Spain got top jobs and made a success of it. Good for them. For some reason that's convinced a bunch of fans it's the best way for everyone else to go about choosing a manager. A monumental breakdown in logic.

Clubs rarely go with the best way. If they did this often enough, then the entire thread would be moot. If there was a process whereby you would only be considered for jobs if you did the impossible a tier down with meagre resources, if the process was entirely meritorious, then Giggs would have to go down the pyramid, go abroad, or stick to punditry.

It's not though. There is a lot of nepotism and blind sided decision making done by chairmen. I mentioned the obvious examples but there are many more of chairmen and boards making reason defying decisions and appointments. I have not seen much over the past 5 years that suggests the existence of "best practices" in football management appointments. Maybe some clubs have such a manual, but not all. Not enough that there isn't space for an opportunity to arise that Giggs and a club could jump on.

From what I know he's done his badges, which are the only certification in that world. He may not be experienced, but to those saying his current qualifications aren't enough, I ask, to who?

 

[Dobbs]

Clubs rarely go with the best way. If they did this often enough, then the entire thread would be moot. If there was a process whereby you would only be considered for jobs if you did the impossible a tier down with meagre resources, if the process was entirely meritorious, then Giggs would have to go down the pyramid, go abroad, or stick to punditry.

It's not though. There is a lot of nepotism and blind sided decision making done by chairmen. I mentioned the obvious examples but there are many more of chairmen and boards making reason defying decisions and appointments. I have not seen much over the past 5 years that suggests the existence of "best practices" in football management appointments. Maybe some clubs have such a manual, but not all. Not enough that there isn't space for an opportunity to arise that Giggs and a club could jump on.

From what I know he's done his badges, which are the only certification in that world. He may not be experienced, but to those saying his current qualifications aren't enough, I ask, to who?

Nah that wasn't my point. You don't have to achieve some incredible feat in the lower divisions to get the Everton job. There's just a very definite pattern with appointments. Chairmen like some evidence the applicant can do the job.

The question is why would a club give it's most important role to a guy who hasn't in anyway proven he can do the job. Rather than award it to a guy who has proven he at least had some ability in said position.

The usual response of "what about Pep/Zidane" is as weak as it gets.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Nah that wasn't my point. You don't have to achieve some incredible feat in the lower divisions to get the Everton job. There's just a very definite pattern with appointments. Chairmen like some evidence the applicant can do the job.

The question is why would a club give it's most important role to a guy who hasn't in anyway proven he can do the job. Rather than award it to a guy who has proven he at least had some ability in said position.

The usual response of "what about Pep/Zidane" is as weak as it gets.

Its high time English teams started taking a chance on the next generation of coaches. In Germany its a frequent occurrence to give a newbie a job. Same in Italy. That's how coaches that get fawned over like Klopp, Pochetino, Wagner and Silva got their starts in Europe. Honestly a candidate for a managerial job should be judged on their ideas, then their experience. Not just their experience. Its the reason I'm hoping a guy like Unsworth gets the Everton job. This fee of giving untested coaches jobs should pass. The only jobs that really need experience or track record are strictly those at the biggest clubs in Europe.

 

[Dobbs]

Its high time English teams started taking a chance on the next generation of coaches. In Germany its a frequent occurrence to give a newbie a job. Same in Italy. Honestly a candidate for a managerial job should be judged on their ideas. Not just their experience. Its the reason I'm hoping a guy like Unsworth gets the Everton job. This fee of giving untested coaches jobs should pass.

Why would Giggs get a job before somebody who has both those attributes?

 

[shamans]

If you were running Barcelona in spring of 2008 would you have hired Guardiola when the likes of Mourinho were available?

If you were running Manchester United in 2013 would you have hired Moyes when dozens of other managers were available?

If you were running Valencia in 2015 would you have hired Neville?

And so on...

Stop pretending as if there are any set rules to who gets hired in football management. Giggs is more placed than the average caftard to analyze his chances of getting into the roles he wants without slogging down in league 2 to prove his worth to the Caf.

This * 1000. Why is it so difficult for people to understand this. Just why.

 

[shamans]

Nah that wasn't my point. You don't have to achieve some incredible feat in the lower divisions to get the Everton job. There's just a very definite pattern with appointments. Chairmen like some evidence the applicant can do the job.

The question is why would a club give it's most important role to a guy who hasn't in anyway proven he can do the job. Rather than award it to a guy who has proven he at least had some ability in said position.

The usual response of "what about Pep/Zidane" is as weak as it gets.

That is not a weak reply and Giggs is not just any unproven armchair analyst. Also, there is no definite pattern - that is exactly the point being made here. Understand that most of us taking Giggs' side in him getting a shot are not saying he will come good but just because he has no past experience does NOT mean he won't potentially be a good manager and even if he crushes the lower leagues it will be near impossible to manage a premier league side from then.

 

[Dobbs]

That is not a weak reply and Giggs is not just any unproven armchair analyst. Also, there is no definite pattern - that is exactly the point being made here. Understand that most of us taking Giggs' side in him getting a shot are not saying he will come good but just because he has no past experience does NOT mean he won't potentially be a good manager and even if he crushes the lower leagues it will be near impossible to manage a premier league side from then.

Can you quote a poster who has said that? In anycase that he might not bomb isn't a good enough reason to give him a job.

Picking out the experience of just two managers from the entire footballing managerial world and using them to justify another appointment is weak. It makes no sense.

There is a pattern. Experience really helps you get good jobs. How can this be denied? It's why Everton went for Koeman, Martinez and Moyes. Why we went for Mourinho, LvG and Ferguson.

 

[Cascarino]

Its high time English teams started taking a chance on the next generation of coaches. In Germany its a frequent occurrence to give a newbie a job. Same in Italy. That's how coaches that get fawned over like Klopp, Pochetino, Wagner and Silva got their starts in Europe. Honestly a candidate for a managerial job should be judged on their ideas, then their experience. Not just their experience. Its the reason I'm hoping a guy like Unsworth gets the Everton job. This fee of giving untested coaches jobs should pass. The only jobs that really need experience or track record are strictly those at the biggest clubs in Europe.

It is a bit different to the Giggs situation in that while German clubs do appoint young, relatively inexperienced managers, such as Baum, Tuchel, Nagelsmann etc, most of the time they do so from their own academy or coaching staff. I think it would help Giggs case if he were to manage a reserve side, build himself a reputation and go from there. Plenty of managers have gotten jobs based on their coaching reputation/work either in the EPL or Championship, the likes of Rodgers, Clement, Shakespear, Sherwood, Steve Clarke and plenty others come to mind come to mind.

Of the 4 coaches you have mentioned, Klopp started off in the second division in Germany, Wagner spent 5 years coaching the Dortmund reserves, Silva began his managerial career at Estoril in the Portugese second division. Pochettino is the only one who started off in the top flight, but it was far from a cushy job as he took over in January with Espanyol in the bottom 3, after having already sacking two coaches that season.

 

[POF]

What a bizarre thread. The strongest arguments for Giggs being a candidate for these jobs seem to be:
- He might be a good coach; and
- Clubs often make stupid appointments.

Is Giggs involved in coaching at any level anywhere at the moment? Even at Salford? If he wants to be a coach, surely a good approach would be to try to develop and learn by actually doing some coaching?

I'd be really happy if he was the United u23 coach. It would be good experience and I think he could learn a lot by being at the club with Jose. I also don't think Ricky Sbragia would be much loss.

 

[Wilt]

I'd be amazed if he were ever offered a prem managers job without having managed at a lower level.

 

[shamans]

What a bizarre thread. The strongest arguments for Giggs being a candidate for these jobs seem to be:
- He might be a good coach; and
- Clubs often make stupid appointments.

Is Giggs involved in coaching at any level anywhere at the moment? Even at Salford? If he wants to be a coach, surely a good approach would be to try to develop and learn by actually doing some coaching?

I'd be really happy if he was the United u23 coach. It would be good experience and I think he could learn a lot by being at the club with Jose. I also don't think Ricky Sbragia would be much loss.

IIRC He has all his coaching badges and was an assistant manager for 3 years.

 

[Home&Away]

Can't wait to see the forum when he comes in after the 3rd year José collapse- might be even at the end of the season

 

[haram]

Can't wait to see the forum when he comes in after the 3rd year José collapse- might be even at the end of the season

None of that is happening. Keep hoping though.

 

[Needham]

Karma says Giggsy must serve an 8 year penance between quitting playing and his first managerial job.

 

[POF]

IIRC He has all his coaching badges and was an assistant manager for 3 years.

Assistant manager for 2 years. He was "player coach" under Moyes. In the last 18 months? Is he further honing his skills or completely out of the game?

People were suggesting Jose was "past it" and his methods were out of date less than a year after winning the title. But 2 years as assistant to a has-been manager in a disastrous spell at a top club is enough that there's no need to keep developing?

Maybe he is working somewhere getting more experience but if he isn't, he should be.

 

[Hambley]

Guardiola coached Barselona B for year, Zidane coached Real Madrid Castilla for 2 years. They both had experience before they headed Barselona and Real. That was risky either, of course, but they HAD some experience. Giggs was a manager for several matches. He could stay at Manchester United and head reserves team to gain experience but he refused, as far as I remember. Ryan wanted everything and immediately. That's not how things work.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

It is a bit different to the Giggs situation in that while German clubs do appoint young, relatively inexperienced managers, such as Baum, Tuchel, Nagelsmann etc, most of the time they do so from their own academy or coaching staff. I think it would help Giggs case if he were to manage a reserve side, build himself a reputation and go from there. Plenty of managers have gotten jobs based on their coaching reputation/work either in the EPL or Championship, the likes of Rodgers, Clement, Shakespear, Sherwood, Steve Clarke and plenty others come to mind come to mind.

Of the 4 coaches you have mentioned, Klopp started off in the second division in Germany, Wagner spent 5 years coaching the Dortmund reserves, Silva began his managerial career at Estoril in the Portugese second division. Pochettino is the only one who started off in the top flight, but it was far from a cushy job as he took over in January with Espanyol in the bottom 3, after having already sacking two coaches that season.

Pochetino is the best example. They took fresh ideas to rescue them for relegation and it worked. Even though I agree the likes of Giggs should be seeking experience at least at reserve level to hone skills till the right job comes along, EPL teams need to really start looking at the next generation of coaches. I get concerned that when I hear the likes of Martin O'Neil still being linked with jobs and Hodgson being appointed at 70. I wish Palace had appointed Dougie Freedman as manager and Hodgson as DOF rather than the other way round.

 

[POF]

Guardiola coached Barselona B for year, Zidane coached Real Madrid Castilla for 2 years. They both had experience before they headed Barselona and Real. That was risky either, of course, but they HAD some experience. Giggs was a manager for several matches. He could stay at Manchester United and head reserves team to gain experience but he refused, as far as I remember. Ryan wanted everything and immediately. That's not how things work.

What confuses me about the whole thing is that even if he was United u23 manager and some decent side came in for him, there is no way United would stop him taking the role. He doesn't have to be out of work to get another job. If anything, it's more likely to harm his chances.

With Giggs I got the impression that he wanted to be United manager rather than "a manager". If he's passionate about coaching then sitting around for 18 months waiting for "the right role" doesn't make sense.

I'm sure Chris Coleman would love to have Giggs as part of the Welsh set up. If coaching or management is his chosen career, it's just really strange he doesn't seem to be doing anything coaching related.

 

[ivaldo]

IIRC He has all his coaching badges and was an assistant manager for 3 years.

And what a job we did in those 3 years...

 

[wolvored]

Why would a Premier club gamble on a novice who has never managed, just because he played for a successful club? I could understand it more if say Giggs had have played for the club as he would know the club inside out. There is too much money involved for any Premier team to install a novice and hope it works. He would be much better swallowing his pride and going to the Championship or a league 1/2 side and learn the ropes. He only needs to look at Neville to see a talk the talk doesnt mean you can walk the walk.

 

[wolvored]

Can't wait to see the forum when he comes in after the 3rd year José collapse- might be even at the end of the season

If that happened it wouldnt be Giggs coming in.

 

[Dobbs]

What confuses me about the whole thing is that even if he was United u23 manager and some decent side came in for him, there is no way United would stop him taking the role. He doesn't have to be out of work to get another job. If anything, it's more likely to harm his chances.

With Giggs I got the impression that he wanted to be United manager rather than "a manager". If he's passionate about coaching then sitting around for 18 months waiting for "the right role" doesn't make sense.

I'm sure Chris Coleman would love to have Giggs as part of the Welsh set up. If coaching or management is his chosen career, it's just really strange he doesn't seem to be doing anything coaching related.

Agree.

I'm not convinced these guys want it enough. Management looks hard work. Very long hours, loads of stress. Why would a multi millionaire give up an easy pundit role and go into that. It can only be a burning desire to do so. Giggs seems ok with being out of the game for 18 months which doesn't suggest he's got that desire.

Reminds me of Shearer thinking he deserves a crack at the England job.

 

[Oscie]

He'll be making irregular appearances along side Ian Wright and Lee Dixon during England vs Urkelawichiesistan matches until he's nearly 60, and people will still be convinced any second he could be called to manage Bayern Munich because "look at Guardiola, you caftards!"

Eddie Howe's been manager for nearly 10 years, is still younger than Giggs when he retired from playing and thus far has enjoyed success with achieving with Bournemouth taking them from League Two to the Premier League. As I say he's 4 years younger than Giggs and has roughly a decades worth of more experience.

You do wonder what managers like him must think of someone like Giggs who must come across as infuriatingly self-entitled, seemingly want to leverage his high profile playing career to demand a top job.

 

[reddaz71]

Giggs seems to have an air of entitlement around him, he has been in a comfort zone for so long that the faintest idea of grafting through the lower leagues and getting a top job on merit simply holds too much of an inconvenience for him!!

 

[Cascarino]

Pochetino is the best example. They took fresh ideas to rescue them for relegation and it worked. Even though I agree the likes of Giggs should be seeking experience at least at reserve level to hone skills till the right job comes along, EPL teams need to really start looking at the next generation of coaches. I get concerned that when I heae the likes of Martin O'Neil still being linked with jobs and Hodgson being appointed at 70. I wish Palace had appointed Dougie Freedman as manager and Hodgson as DOF rather than the other way round.

Think you have made fair points, there is a managerial merry go round with plenty of the clubs where the same faces get appointed and linked constantly. Some new blood would be nice.

 

[SER19]

Straight choice question

David unsworth or Ryan giggs for Everton job?

Unsworth has emerged as one of the lead contenders for the Everton job with a similar experience to giggs, but I don't see near the same level of outcry. In my opinion this justifies those who feel giggs gets hammered for reasons other than his coaching experience or Is David unsworth an entitled prick too who feels he doesn't have to ply his trade in lower leagues?

Back to the question as it seems Everton are seriously considering unsworth , unsworth or giggs if those were the two choices?

 

[Cascarino]

Straight choice question

David unsworth or Ryan giggs for Everton job?

Unsworth has emerged as one of the lead contenders for the Everton job with a similar experience to giggs, but I don't see near the same level of outcry. In my opinion this justifies those who feel giggs gets hammered for reasons other than his coaching experience or Is David unsworth an entitled prick too who feels he doesn't have to ply his trade in lower leagues?

Back to the question as it seems Everton are seriously considering unsworth , unsworth or giggs if those were the two choices?

Not really the same, Unsworth is a former Everton player, has been at the club the last 5 years so he knows the club inside and out. Promoting from within isn’t unheard off, it happens plenty with differing consequences (Zidane Guardiola good, Sherwood Shakespear not so good).

If Giggs had spent the last 5 years coaching at Everton, and spent over a decade playing for the club, it’d be a similar scenario.

So to answer your question, I think Unsworth is more suited to the job, in my opinion,

 

[kentafuji]

Like the above said, its a different scenario. I would go Unsworth as well

Is Unsworth good enough for the job? I would personally say no, but as said above he has been with the club in a coaching capacity and was a long time servant as a player, and is well regarded within the club. Its natural to give someone like that the caretaker role, and that itself leads to links to the permanent job.

If Everton have sense, they won't give it to him full time.

Its exactly the same as Giggs being given the United job when Moyes was sacked. Already part of the set up, knows the club, and well respected within it.

 

[Gio]

Straight choice question

David unsworth or Ryan giggs for Everton job?

Unsworth has emerged as one of the lead contenders for the Everton job with a similar experience to giggs, but I don't see near the same level of outcry. In my opinion this justifies those who feel giggs gets hammered for reasons other than his coaching experience or Is David unsworth an entitled prick too who feels he doesn't have to ply his trade in lower leagues?

Back to the question as it seems Everton are seriously considering unsworth , unsworth or giggs if those were the two choices?

It's not the same level of outcry because David is Un-newsworthy compared to Ryan.

Mind you Talksport were all over it this morning - Barton was ranting about how unprepared Unsworth is for the gig.

 

[clarkydaz]

It's not the same level of outcry because David is Un-newsworthy compared to Ryan.

Mind you Talksport were all over it this morning - Barton was ranting about how unprepared Unsworth is for the gig.

that's putting it mildly, I'm listening to the rerun now and he pretty much called him a fat overweight c*nt on air

 

[Rockets Redglare]

that's putting it mildly, I'm listening to the rerun now and he pretty much called him a fat overweight c*nt on air

Glorified P.E teacher.

 

[SER19]

Not really the same, Unsworth is a former Everton player, has been at the club the last 5 years so he knows the club inside and out. Promoting from within isn’t unheard off, it happens plenty with differing consequences (Zidane Guardiola good, Sherwood Shakespear not so good).

If Giggs had spent the last 5 years coaching at Everton, and spent over a decade playing for the club, it’d be a similar scenario.

So to answer your question, I think Unsworth is more suited to the job, in my opinion,

So with all of the discussion exact same criteria, giggs was within his rights completely to make a case for the United job?

Im just playing devils advocate, due to the amount of what seems like a really strong outpouring of something near rage whenever giggs is linked with a job, despite the premier league having had many examples of players doing something very similar

 

[Xaviesta]

Straight choice question

David unsworth or Ryan giggs for Everton job?

Unsworth has emerged as one of the lead contenders for the Everton job with a similar experience to giggs, but I don't see near the same level of outcry. In my opinion this justifies those who feel giggs gets hammered for reasons other than his coaching experience or Is David unsworth an entitled prick too who feels he doesn't have to ply his trade in lower leagues?

Back to the question as it seems Everton are seriously considering unsworth , unsworth or giggs if those were the two choices?

David Unsworth has experience managing his own team where he is responsible for the success and failure of his team, whereas Giggs has just been an assistant manager.

 

[Cascarino]

So with all of the discussion exact same criteria, giggs was within his rights completely to make a case for the United job?

Im just playing devils advocate, due to the amount of what seems like a really strong outpouring of something near rage whenever giggs is linked with a job, despite the premier league having had many examples of players doing something very similar

I am not that well versed regarding the intricacies of the Manchester United board, but I'm pretty sure at one point that was the plan. For Giggs to shadow LVG for 3 years as assistant manager and then to take over as LVG's contract expired after LVG had rebuilt the squad. It just didn't go to plan and LVG was sacked, I imagine that the Manchester board decided that because a rebuild of the squad was still needed the job was too big for Giggs and instead went with proven goods in Mourinho.

Giggs is well within his right to go for any job he wants, he could turn out to be an incredible manager in the vein of a Guardiola. I would be unhappy if my club hired him as a manager though.

Wouldn't mind him as Wales manager though.