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Ryan Giggs | United confirm he's left
- Thread starter Sultan
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Giggs should swallow his pride if he wants to become a manager at all. Di Matteo is about to embark on a journey in the Championship (no offence) despite having managed elsewhere and more importantly, won the bloody Champions League. It makes zero sense sitting around waiting for an opportunity when the footballing landscape has turned into a rigid turnover-hungry one. There's little chance we'd take a shot at having him as the manager following the sub-par performances of more experienced managers the past three years.
I think Jose will bring in another former player as part of his staff. My guess is either Rio or Gaz. Either of them would be great.
I'm glad Giggs is being proactive now in going for a managerial position. Hell never prove himself unless he leaves the nest and gets outside his comfort zone.
Di Matteo started off in the championship and got West Brom promoted.
Even the FSW is in the championship now. It won't be easy for Giggs.
That's my point, you very rarely (if ever!) start off at the top. Take the opportunity and work at a different club and shape your managerial identity, instead of being a yes-man nexto to anyone coming in as a manager here.
Good for him then if he decides he wants to go into management. Can surely only help him to develop and spread his wings.
It is crazy to think there will be two managers in the Championship who have won the Champions League. Competition for jobs has never been so fierce so he should take any opportunity he gets at that level.
Not sure about his desire,if there was no that cnut Faria in the frame,he would accept and stay as JM assistant.
So United offer him a role in the U21s or a coaching role and he feels like he suddenly has a "strong desire" to be a manager.
Reality must have hit him hard.
Reality must have hit him hard.
That and Owen Coyle getting the Blackburn job, not Warren Joyce.
Gaz has ambitions to become manager too same as Phil.
Id go for Phelan. A former player whose been in SAF administration.
Thats because he has been bloody awful though at every job he has gone to subsequently such that his UCL win is losing its lustre.
Giggs on the other hand was a crucial member in two successful administrations (LVG and Moyes)
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Exactly. Also his regular interactions with the media have aptly demonstrated his keen tactical nous and man management skills. He has also proved his loyalty beyond any doubt by regularly coming out to assure fans that all is well within the dressing room when ever there were rumors of unrest during the Moyes and LVG era.
how is this a breaking news?
I will give it a try
BREAKING NEWS: Sky Sports likely to post vague tweets to win attention.
Come on @devilish
That comment had nothing to do with Giggs. I said it more in passing.
I dont want him as manager as much as the next guy and have been adamant of that from the beginning, but thats an unnecessary shot against him.
Regardless or who we look at, my point still stands. With a very few exceptions (Heynckes springs to mind), managers do not start off at the very, very top.
How many on here would actually be disappointed if/when Giggs leaves?
He's been a part of 2 hugely damaging regimes all the while lurking in the background plotting and scheming for his own management opportunity.
Do.not.want.
He's been a part of 2 hugely damaging regimes all the while lurking in the background plotting and scheming for his own management opportunity.
Do.not.want.
When did any Assistant Manager ever become "crucial"?
Not disappointed at all. His status as a club legend as a player is cemented, but there is always a time to move on and this is it for Giggs. He knows nothing about the outside world football wise and you can't just rely on having been schooled in management from Sir Alex to understand what being a manager is all about. For his own good and for his own next challenge he needs to discover himself at another club, preferably at a Championship side which is a dam difficult league. He might prove to be a huge success, which will bode well for his aspirations to manager United. On the other hand, he/we might discover that he is a 'middling manager', similar to Hughes, Bruce etc in which case, he should never manage United but be remembered for the brilliant player that he was.
It was meant in jest.
If I was the owner of a club and I had to choose between a young manager who won the CL and someone whose got zero experience in management Id choose the former. Especially if the former had got his coaching badges in a school that is currently producing the likes of Allegri, Conte and Ancelotti while the latter got his coaching badges in a school that is currently producing Moyeses, Big Sams and Rodgers.
I won't be very disappointed when/if he goes. Scholes and Neville have gone before him, as have other players I had as much/more affinity towards. It's not like he's dying or something. He's one of our greats and will remain so.
It wasn't meant to be an unnecessary shot. What I am saying is that if he gets an offer from a decent Championship side then he would get it. Actually it would be a better learning experience for him then taking the United or Valencia job as he can do his share of rookie mistakes without having the media breathing at his neck.
He needs to go and earn his spurs on his own merit, not just waltzing into the job because he's been at the club the longest.
Managing isn't about knowing how the club works off the pitch, it's what matters on it. So far he hasn't proved or shown he's got the tactical acumen to make a difference, he needs to go to a team without a stonking budget and get a team playing good football first, grinding out wins when necessary. THEN he should be considered.
Managing isn't about knowing how the club works off the pitch, it's what matters on it. So far he hasn't proved or shown he's got the tactical acumen to make a difference, he needs to go to a team without a stonking budget and get a team playing good football first, grinding out wins when necessary. THEN he should be considered.
While I am not suggesting Giggs should be given a shot at united I am just not sure if managing a low level team will put him in any better stead to manage United.
Look at Steve Bruce, proven at Championship level but unlikely to be considered for a higher up job. Likewise, Keane's second autobiography painted a pretty grim picture of life at these clubs. A mix of journey men and prima donnas. The hunger isn't there and the players don't hold themselves to the same high standard as United players do.
So effectively you're on a hiding to nothing and plenty of managers who might be effective at a club where they will work with top facilities and players end up with a tarnished reputation where no club will take a chance on them. Its evident in how few managers are available at the top level.
I strongly disagree.
Most top managers in football started with low teams. Simeone, Mourinho, Conte, Clough, SAF, Klopp etc and then they worked their way up. Its very simple, a rookie gets a managerial job with a small club, he overachieves, and someone would spot him and give him a better job. The managerial role is a precarious job so if a manager is good enough and he shows it on the pitch then he will get his chance.
Having said that very few people are able to become top quality managers so most managers will get stuck to their level along the way while the best ones keeps growing. Take Pocchetino as an example. He done well with Southampton and he moved to Spurs. If he keeps doing well then soon enough he will move to a better club.
If he wants to be a manager, he has no choice but to leave. It's the most positive step he can take right now. Otherwise it just looks like he can't be arsed to work elsewhere.
Let's see...
Mourinho : 4th with Leira, Treble with Porto before having a shot at managing Chelsea, even then he won the League
SAF : UEFA cup with Aberdeen, Scottish League with Aberdeen, before he has a shot at managing United
Pep : Taking Barca U-21 team to the maximum, before given a chance
Klopp : Not sure bout him, Mainz?
Zidane : Managing Castilla, not very impressive, but he has that under his belt
Giggs : Managing 4 matches, Assistant Manager without input for 3 years.
I don't think Giggs believe he could take the likes of Swansea or Celtic to win Europa League, nor finishing top 6 with them. His best bet was to wait for the managerial job to be handed on a silver plate by luck or by a chain of event. If he goes out of United, he'll probably lingering around in bottom half of the table manager and championship journeymen, even in championship you have big sharks like Rafa/Matteo.
It really take a tremendous managerial skill, luck, timing, and stars aligned to become a top level manager. All it takes was one Scholes' goal and Mourinho will only be another villa boas. If by luck SAF lost in QF he wouldn't make the UEFA cup with Aberdeen and the whole thing might be a different story altogether.
Some people are fated to become managerial giant, some goes by without that luck/charisma/karma or whatever you call it. Let's see if Giggs have that "X" factor, what's bound to be will bound to happen. If he has all the necessary ingredients he'll one day come back to manage us, if he doesn't then probably he's not the knight we're looking for.
Mourinho : 4th with Leira, Treble with Porto before having a shot at managing Chelsea, even then he won the League
SAF : UEFA cup with Aberdeen, Scottish League with Aberdeen, before he has a shot at managing United
Pep : Taking Barca U-21 team to the maximum, before given a chance
Klopp : Not sure bout him, Mainz?
Zidane : Managing Castilla, not very impressive, but he has that under his belt
Giggs : Managing 4 matches, Assistant Manager without input for 3 years.
I don't think Giggs believe he could take the likes of Swansea or Celtic to win Europa League, nor finishing top 6 with them. His best bet was to wait for the managerial job to be handed on a silver plate by luck or by a chain of event. If he goes out of United, he'll probably lingering around in bottom half of the table manager and championship journeymen, even in championship you have big sharks like Rafa/Matteo.
It really take a tremendous managerial skill, luck, timing, and stars aligned to become a top level manager. All it takes was one Scholes' goal and Mourinho will only be another villa boas. If by luck SAF lost in QF he wouldn't make the UEFA cup with Aberdeen and the whole thing might be a different story altogether.
Some people are fated to become managerial giant, some goes by without that luck/charisma/karma or whatever you call it. Let's see if Giggs have that "X" factor, what's bound to be will bound to happen. If he has all the necessary ingredients he'll one day come back to manage us, if he doesn't then probably he's not the knight we're looking for.
The results doesn't lie, both of Bruce and Keane are shit manager, and they're not good enough for United.
Bruce didn't get the job not because he took the low level job, but simply because he's not good enough to even surpass the low level challenge.
He's Madrid bound in a few years, guaranteed. And from then on you're a certified big manager you can get any job and not looking out of place. So all and all I don't think it's very hard to climb that ladder, his biggest achievement if he manages Madrid one day is Southampton, not Tottenham.
Well that's incredibly harsh...
Well I believe we both agree that
Real > Spurs > Saints
And nothing is guaranteed in football. Pochettino will have to prove himself that he's not a one season wonder at Spurs level to get a top job. That's how football work
The idea of 'mediocre' or 'less hungry' players being an issue for a young manager is such a weird complaint and really doesn't stand up to reason in my book. I mean, that's what a major part of management is (adapting to your current circumstances). The idea that it tells you nothing about their ability to manage a big club is just a flat out lie - its a starting point and it's an indication.
Those managers simply have to adjust strategies when they upgrade to a better club with with higher quality players.
I have no doubt Ferguson and Mourinho could take a side in the Championship or League One and make solid progress with them over 2-3 years with an average amount of financial backing.
I agree. However they are not top club quality.
Isn't this part of the growing process itself, acquiring and using the ability to impose your own standards on a football club? Not every manager who starts from the bottom has to succeed and the few that do are a testament to their abilities that marks them as a select few. Upward progression is not for everyone.
I didn't want Giggsy anywhere near the job but it's a bit ingenious to believe he can prove himself to be fit for the Manchester United job at a club in the 2nd division or even in the bottom half of the PL. The requirements, the quality of players you work with, what you can do with them, the style or system you can impose are just way top different. He can at beat, learn about what it is to manage a club and gain useful experience but that's it. If we ever appoint him as the manager, there will always be that element of risk unless Giggsy goes on some incredible run of clubs where he goes through club after club moving up and finally moves to us from a Arsenal/Spurs etc which won't happen.
Ah, just noticed this post. You're absolutely spot on.
My point exactly, only an elite succeed as to get to the top you need to overachieve and sometimes that's just not possible with certain clubs. Pocchetino has impressed but he has been given opportunities at top tier clubs from the off. Maybe he would have struggled with hull and be seen as a yoyo manager. Do you think he would have been better served managing in the Championship before Espanyol, Southampton and Spurs? Quite the opposite, he could have been tarnished with a crap team.
I am not talking about them being right for United but just in general examples of how ex players have faired in the championship. Both have had teams promoted which is no easy feat but have had issues then afterwards which pretty much ruled them out of any top jobs. My point being its probably more detrimental to your career to take on a job in the Championship as its such an unpredictable league with a significant gulf in class when you step up to the Premiership.
Yes but this could be done at a mid-level premier league club. Giggs could go to Southampton and impress and show he is capable. Or he may have ended up at somewhere like Aston Villa which despite its prestige has a lot of off the field problems. He'd look crap by association.
Ah, just noticed this post. You're absolutely spot on.
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