SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Fanatic 00237]

You’re missing the point. Almost all the decisions were the correct ones at the time they were made. Even if hindsight calls some of them into question.

As for differing opinions they’ve always existed. They still exist now. A lot of experts would disagree with almost everything in that article you linked. It’s only the really dumb opinions that get ridiculed. Unfortunately there’s been a lot of dumb opinions aired on this topic.

You too might be missing the point that some of the disputed decisions are actually present policies, not just past ones. I think it's fair to point out that there has been no admission of previous misguided decisions, especially when people had raised doubts at the time, and to make things worse, current decisions mostly go in direct line with the previous ill-advised takes.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Impressive results from Pfizer’s oral treatment, following on from recent approval of Merck drug.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

Disagree. It’s not a negligible difference, even at an individual level. And the whole point of a mass vaccination program is about making a difference at a population level. Where even just moving the dial 1% or 2% can save many many lives. So these data fully endorse the need to get vaccinated.

You seem to be misunderstanding/misinterpreting the preprint you shared, by the way. It analyses the possibility of infecting someone else if you have covid. The chances of having covid are - obviously - a lot lower in someone who is vaccinated than someone who is not vaccinated. Likewise catching it on a night out. Hence it makes sense to allow vaccinated people a little more freedom in terms of socialising indoors.

And one last time - for the cheap seats - the vacccines aren’t flawless. They don’t need to be. When you’re dealing with the behaviour of thousands and thousands of people, you just need to tilt the balance a little bit to have fairly profound benefits. It’s amazing this needs to be pointed out seeing as we have so much evidence all around us of life getting back very close to normal without the same healthcare burden we’ve seen in previous waves, pre-vaccine.

13% is not a significant difference in transmission - I guarantee if this number was presented before the vaccination program we'd see far fewer people, especially young people who are at extremely low risk, taking the jabs. You only have to look at Waterford, which has the highest rate of vaccination in Ireland with 99.7 per cent of adults over the age of 18 fully vaccinated. The county has gone from having one of the lowest rates of Covid-19 infection in Ireland to one of the highest.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/hea...highest-rate-of-covid-19-infections-1.4707344 - we're seeing other examples all over the world.

It's great these vaccines have shown to work well in reducing symptoms and death in the short-term for those who are vulnerable, but the evidence shows there is very little difference in transmission and viral load between the vaccinated and unvaccinated for the delta variant therefore the draconian vaccine passport systems implemented in places like Lithuania, Australia, and Canada are ridiculous - I don't understand why anyone would want to introduce them here in the UK.

Also, and I'm asking in good faith and genuinely, I'd be interested to know when you think this pandemic will be over? How many bi-yearly boosters do you think it'll take before we're 'back to normal?'

 

[Pogue Mahone]

13% is not a significant difference in transmission - I guarantee if this number was presented before the vaccination program we'd see far fewer people, especially young people who are at extremely low risk, taking the jabs. You only have to look at Waterford, which has the highest rate of vaccination in Ireland with 99.7 per cent of adults over the age of 18 fully vaccinated. The county has gone from having one of the lowest rates of Covid-19 infection in Ireland to one of the highest.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/hea...highest-rate-of-covid-19-infections-1.4707344 - we're seeing other examples all over the world.

It's great these vaccines have shown to work well in reducing symptoms and death in the short-term for those who are vulnerable, but the evidence shows there is very little difference in transmission and viral load between the vaccinated and unvaccinated for the delta variant therefore the draconian vaccine passport systems implemented in places like Lithuania, Australia, and Canada are ridiculous - I don't understand why anyone would want to introduce them here in the UK.

Also, and I'm asking in good faith and genuinely, I'd be interested to know when you think this pandemic will be over? How many bi-yearly boosters do you think it'll take before we're 'back to normal?'

This pandemic is not going to ever be “over”. The virus is going to be endemic all over the world and from here on in it’s about damage limitation. With vaccines as by far the most useful tool in our armoury.

Never mind looking at counties, look at countries. Look at what’s happening in the Eastern European countries with the lowest vaccine rates and then tell me that ‘draconian’ vaccine passports (or any other system intended to increase vaccine uptake) are a bad idea. Vaccines are saving lives on a massive scale. We obviously need to do everything possible to encourage people to take them.

I’m reasonably hopeful that we won’t need boosters every year. There are other vaccines that give very long term protection when the doses are spaced six months apart and we’re seeing loads of evidence recently that a “booster” dose gives a much better antibody response than either of the first two doses. So it’s definitely possible that a booster after six months could give several years protection (maybe even longer?)

 

[BusbyMalone]

Just got over Covid myself. Thankfully I'm young and keep myself fit and healthy, but even still I could feel it on my chest and lungs. I felt alright in myself but had a tight chest on day 5 or 6 of it. There was a slight burning sensation in my chest one night, but that subsided thankfully. It seems to have cleared up now, and I feel fine.

But I caught it off my parents, and they were really rough. My mother in particular was bad, to the point where we thought she may have to go into hospital. They have an oximeter and the numbers were ok, thankfully. We've all been double jabbed, and my mother actually got her booster on the Wednesday and tested positive on the Sunday.

Dread to think how bad it would be without the vaccine.

 

[golden_blunder]

Just got over Covid myself. Thankfully I'm young and keep myself fit and healthy, but even still I could feel it on my chest and lungs. I felt alright in myself but had a tight chest on day 5 or 6 of it. There was a slight burning sensation in my chest one night, but that subsided thankfully. It seems to have cleared up now, and I feel fine.

But I caught it off my parents, and they were really rough. My mother in particular was bad, to the point where we thought she may have to go into hospital. They have an oximeter and the numbers were ok, thankfully. We've all been double jabbed, and my mother actually got her booster on the Wednesday and tested positive on the Sunday.

Dread to think how bad it would be without the vaccine.

Glad you’re all on the mend

 

[Wibble]

Some interesting points in there. Some absolute nonsense too. And the whole premise seems to be based around criticising decisions made before the evidence became available to question those decisions. It’s always easy to be wise with the benefit of hindsight.

The utter nonsense stood out (the majority) and the rest was "so what?"

 

[Wibble]

Just got over Covid myself. Thankfully I'm young and keep myself fit and healthy, but even still I could feel it on my chest and lungs. I felt alright in myself but had a tight chest on day 5 or 6 of it. There was a slight burning sensation in my chest one night, but that subsided thankfully. It seems to have cleared up now, and I feel fine.

But I caught it off my parents, and they were really rough. My mother in particular was bad, to the point where we thought she may have to go into hospital. They have an oximeter and the numbers were ok, thankfully. We've all been double jabbed, and my mother actually got her booster on the Wednesday and tested positive on the Sunday.

Dread to think how bad it would be without the vaccine.

Glad you are all on the mend and vaccinated.

 

[Wibble]

You too might be missing the point that some of the disputed decisions are actually present policies, not just past ones. I think it's fair to point out that there has been no admission of previous misguided decisions, especially when people had raised doubts at the time, and to make things worse, current decisions mostly go in direct line with the previous ill-advised takes.

Out of interest in your opinion which bits of that article mean a policy change is a good idea?

 

[Stanley Road]

We need another lockdown in nl, unless they attack the anti vaccers we're fecked

 

[P-Ro]

We need another lockdown in nl, unless they attack the anti vaccers we're fecked

Set your dog on them Stan

 

[Penna]

It's great these vaccines have shown to work well in reducing symptoms and death in the short-term for those who are vulnerable, but the evidence shows there is very little difference in transmission and viral load between the vaccinated and unvaccinated for the delta variant therefore the draconian vaccine passport systems implemented in places like Lithuania, Australia, and Canada are ridiculous - I don't understand why anyone would want to introduce them here in the UK.

The passport isn't draconian, it's just a record of your vaccinations. Virtually all of Europe is using the same system. I assume you mean the use of the passport to take part in activities such as going to a restaurant, a concert, a cinema or for work?

Vaccines have meant that in many countries, people have been able to return to a more or less normal life (even in Italy, which was so badly hit before the rest of Europe). It's perfectly reasonable to ask people to demonstrate that they're fully-vaccinated.

 

[jojojo]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Impressive results from Pfizer’s oral treatment, following on from recent approval of Merck drug.

I must admit I prefer the sound of this Pfizer one to the Merck drug. The mechanism for its antiviral behaviour just feels less scary!

That's obviously got nothing to do with clinical reality of course, just that first impression thing.

Obvious disclaimer: I know nothing about the subject, other than the basic summary stuff provided by the media. I'm just hoping that someone who understands more about the science of these drugs can offer a bit more.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Glad you’re all on the mend

Glad you are all on the mend and vaccinated.

Cheers guys

Yeah, I hate to think how bad it would have been for my parents had they not been vaccinated. Not that you didn't feel for the people who had it really bad before, but when you experience it yourself it really highlights how rough it must have been for people who had it at the beginning when no vaccine was available.

 

[Stanley Road]

Here in NL we are about to reach our highest ever positive tests per day, since covid began. From 1500 pd 6 weeks ago to 12000 today, highest was 12900. I expect a new regional lockdown very soon. Open everything up, what could possibly go wrong?

 

[Steven Seagull]

Here in NL we are about to reach our highest ever positive tests per day, since covid began. From 1500 pd 6 weeks ago to 12000 today, highest was 12900. I expect a new regional lockdown very soon. Open everything up, what could possibly go wrong?

what are the hospitalisations and deaths looking like?

 

[Stanley Road]

what are the hospitalisations and deaths looking like?

Both rising, in low uptake areas hospitals can't take any more, have to move patients.

 

[golden_blunder]

Kids visited England for the weekend, I’m wondering if they are allowed back to school on Monday?
HSE just says that quarantine no longer needed

 

[MalcolmTucker]

Never mind looking at counties, look at countries. Look at what’s happening in the Eastern European countries with the lowest vaccine rates and then tell me that ‘draconian’ vaccine passports (or any other system intended to increase vaccine uptake) are a bad idea. Vaccines are saving lives on a massive scale. We obviously need to do everything possible to encourage people to take them.

Yes, we can talk about countries. This analysis showed 'At the country-level, there appears to be no discernible relationship between percentage of population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases in the last 7 days. In fact, the trend line suggests a marginally positive association such that countries with higher percentage of population fully vaccinated have higher COVID-19 cases per 1 million people. Notably, Israel with over 60% of their population fully vaccinated had the highest COVID-19 cases per 1 million people in the last 7 days. The lack of a meaningful association between percentage population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases is further exemplified, for instance, by comparison of Iceland and Portugal.'

More recently, we see Wales who have a vaccine pass system yet they had more cases than England per capita. Even in this thread, the guy in NL where they have high vaccination rates and vaccine passports yet they are reporting the record cases per day, even prior to vaccine roll outs. And according to this hospital 9 out of 10 of the beds are the vaccinated

Also, saying vaccine passes are simply just a mode of encouragement is incredibly euphemistic when the consequences are people losing their jobs and being medically segregated from society. I could understand if these vaccines were sterilising or if COVID was actually dangerous for most people but it's not. We've seen studies showing that between 1.4% to 78.3% of cases don't reach the symptomatic stage - I was one such case. We also know that natural immunity confers broader and longer lasting immunity than two doses of the Pfizer vaccine. Furthermore, we now know that the vaccines only offer a 13% improvement in transmissibility. The vaccine passports don't make any sense. Give the vaccines to those who need protecting, because the idea of herd immunity with the vaccines is not a possibility.

I’m reasonably hopeful that we won’t need boosters every year. There are other vaccines that give very long term protection when the doses are spaced six months apart and we’re seeing loads of evidence recently that a “booster” dose gives a much better antibody response than either of the first two doses. So it’s definitely possible that a booster after six months could give several years protection (maybe even longer?)

I hope you're right, but I suspect you're not. Israel are on their 2nd booster already.

The passport isn't draconian, it's just a record of your vaccinations. Virtually all of Europe is using the same system. I assume you mean the use of the passport to take part in activities such as going to a restaurant, a concert, a cinema or for work?

Vaccines have meant that in many countries, people have been able to return to a more or less normal life (even in Italy, which was so badly hit before the rest of Europe). It's perfectly reasonable to ask people to demonstrate that they're fully-vaccinated.

England and the Scandinavian countries don't have vaccine passports (by this I do mean a pass to use restaurants, gyms etc) and things are also 'back to normal' except people aren't losing their livelihoods and aren't medically segregated. Can you provide any studies or evidence that show that vaccine passports work? Because I've listed a whole load of sources above that show they don't. I'm someone who trains and competes in a highly athletic sport and it's one of my greatest passions. I need to be in prime condition to compete but as we've seen there is a risk of pericarditis/myocarditis with these vaccines, especially in the young and healthy hence Finland, Sweden and Denmark pausing Moderna in under 30s - there are several accounts of athletes having bad reactions to the vaccine and having to stop their season and I don't want to be one of them. COVID attacks the old, the vulnerable and the unhealthy while adverse reactions can strike anyone - it's not worth the risk for me as someone who has had COVID and didn't even realise until my test came back positive - I have no risk from infection but I do have a risk (albeit small) from vaccination. The fact some people think banishing people like me from society isn't draconian is genuinely disappointing, especially with all the new data we have coming out showing how these vaccines only stop transmission by 13%.

 

[jojojo]

Yes, we can talk about countries. This analysis showed 'At the country-level, there appears to be no discernible relationship between percentage of population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases in the last 7 days. In fact, the trend line suggests a marginally positive association such that countries with higher percentage of population fully vaccinated have higher COVID-19 cases per 1 million people. Notably, Israel with over 60% of their population fully vaccinated had the highest COVID-19 cases per 1 million people in the last 7 days. The lack of a meaningful association between percentage population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases is further exemplified, for instance, by comparison of Iceland and Portugal.'

More recently, we see Wales who have a vaccine pass system yet they had more cases than England per capita. Even in this thread, the guy in NL where they have high vaccination rates and vaccine passports yet they are reporting the record cases per day, even prior to vaccine roll outs. And according to this hospital 9 out of 10 of the beds are the vaccinated

Also, saying vaccine passes are simply just a mode of encouragement is incredibly euphemistic when the consequences are people losing their jobs and being medically segregated from society. I could understand if these vaccines were sterilising or if COVID was actually dangerous for most people but it's not. We've seen studies showing that between 1.4% to 78.3% of cases don't reach the symptomatic stage - I was one such case. We also know that natural immunity confers broader and longer lasting immunity than two doses of the Pfizer vaccine. Furthermore, we now know that the vaccines only offer a 13% improvement in transmissibility. The vaccine passports don't make any sense. Give the vaccines to those who need protecting, because the idea of herd immunity with the vaccines is not a possibility.



I hope you're right, but I suspect you're not. Israel are on their 2nd booster already.



England and the Scandinavian countries don't have vaccine passports (by this I do mean a pass to use restaurants, gyms etc) and things are also 'back to normal' except people aren't losing their livelihoods and aren't medically segregated. Can you provide any studies or evidence that show that vaccine passports work? Because I've listed a whole load of sources above that show they don't. I'm someone who trains and competes in a highly athletic sport and it's one of my greatest passions. I need to be in prime condition to compete but as we've seen there is a risk of pericarditis/myocarditis with these vaccines, especially in the young and healthy hence Finland, Sweden and Denmark pausing Moderna in under 30s - there are several accounts of athletes having bad reactions to the vaccine and having to stop their season and I don't want to be one of them. COVID attacks the old, the vulnerable and the unhealthy while adverse reactions can strike anyone - it's not worth the risk for me as someone who has had COVID and didn't even realise until my test came back positive - I have no risk from infection but I do have a risk (albeit small) from vaccination. The fact some people think banishing people like me from society isn't draconian is genuinely disappointing, especially with all the new data we have coming out showing how these vaccines only stop transmission by 13%.

I assume you're being disingenuous but maybe you really don't know. Just in case it's the latter and for anyone confused by what you've said let's have a look at a couple of those reports.

On vaccination % by country v cases stats. First lets go for the obvious. Policies on testing vary massively between countries - the UK tests all its secondary age kids plus lots of other groups routinely every week. Some countries only test for diagnostic purposes, once someone is seriously ill enough to need medical attention. In many areas the people least likely to come forward for testing are the same group that are least likely to get vaccinated. Now add in the fact that for vaccinated countries - one of the big gains has been to reopen - and cases v vaccine takeup between countries really tells you very little. It's useful for more detailed analysis of things like vaccine waning but only if you understand the exact nature of the stats.

More generally, of course vaccines reduce transmission. Even if you take the worse case stats from the UK and look at groups where vaccine efficacy is waning you still see at least a 50% reduction in cases between the vaxxed and unvaxxed in comparable cohorts. You also see a reduction in onward transmission - not in initial viral load that some sites talk about (broadly the same vaxxed/unvaxxed) but in the number of days they remain infectious for.

You're correct to believe that the biggest advantage though is in reducing hospitalisations of the vulnerable where vulnerable includes a lot of working age adults. For most people who don't live in social isolation, the vulnerable are all around you and don't necessarily conform to the standard model of 80+ and frail.

I'm someone who trains and competes in a highly athletic sport and it's one of my greatest passions. I need to be in prime condition to compete but as we've seen there is a risk of pericarditis/myocarditis with these vaccines, especially in the young and healthy hence Finland, Sweden and Denmark pausing Moderna in under 30s - there are several accounts of athletes having bad reactions to the vaccine and having to stop their season and I don't want to be one of them. COVID attacks the old, the vulnerable and the unhealthy while adverse reactions can strike anyone - it's not worth the risk for me as someone who has had COVID and didn't even realise until my test came back positive - I have no risk from infection but I do have a risk (albeit small) from vaccination. The fact some people think banishing people like me from society isn't draconian is genuinely disappointing, especially with all the new data we have coming out showing how these vaccines only stop transmission by 13%.

That just isn't true. Many people don't know they're vulnerable until they find it out the hard way. Others like Paul Pogba, Allan Saint-Maximin didn't know they were vulnerable until they took weeks to recover from it, Karl Darlow probably reckoned he was safe until he was hospitalised with it. Or maybe you'd prefer the stories from some US based athletes.

Or you could try reading up on the myocarditis and covid studies in young men, including those cautioning athletes about the hidden risks as they return to training. https://www.jwatch.org/na53704/2021/06/04/covid-19-myocarditis-athletes

Of course regulators internationally are constantly looking at vaccine adverse reactions. It's their job. Sometimes that leads to new advice like the advice in some countries (with low covid case incidence and plenty of Pfizer as an alternative) not to use Moderna.

I'm not going to tell anyone their personal odds of being seriously affected by covid or their odds of being affected badly by the vaccine. It's a statistical question. The odds for almost everyone (main exception: people with allergic responses to the vaccine components) are that they as individuals are safer with the vaccine than without.

As an aside, personally I'm not a fan of vaccine passports etc as a long term fix and I think we're already at the point in some countries where they might do more harm in terms of public confidence and vaccine takeup than good, and compound some institutional discrimination in the process. But that's got nothing to do with my belief that we're all a lot safer in highly vaccinated communities and that mass vaccination is the safest (lowest loss of life, lowest longterm health impacts, lowest hospitalisation levels) route to reopening and normal life.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yes, we can talk about countries. This analysis showed 'At the country-level, there appears to be no discernible relationship between percentage of population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases in the last 7 days. In fact, the trend line suggests a marginally positive association such that countries with higher percentage of population fully vaccinated have higher COVID-19 cases per 1 million people. Notably, Israel with over 60% of their population fully vaccinated had the highest COVID-19 cases per 1 million people in the last 7 days. The lack of a meaningful association between percentage population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases is further exemplified, for instance, by comparison of Iceland and Portugal.'

More recently, we see Wales who have a vaccine pass system yet they had more cases than England per capita. Even in this thread, the guy in NL where they have high vaccination rates and vaccine passports yet they are reporting the record cases per day, even prior to vaccine roll outs. And according to this hospital 9 out of 10 of the beds are the vaccinated

Also, saying vaccine passes are simply just a mode of encouragement is incredibly euphemistic when the consequences are people losing their jobs and being medically segregated from society. I could understand if these vaccines were sterilising or if COVID was actually dangerous for most people but it's not. We've seen studies showing that between 1.4% to 78.3% of cases don't reach the symptomatic stage - I was one such case. We also know that natural immunity confers broader and longer lasting immunity than two doses of the Pfizer vaccine. Furthermore, we now know that the vaccines only offer a 13% improvement in transmissibility. The vaccine passports don't make any sense. Give the vaccines to those who need protecting, because the idea of herd immunity with the vaccines is not a possibility.



I hope you're right, but I suspect you're not. Israel are on their 2nd booster already.



England and the Scandinavian countries don't have vaccine passports (by this I do mean a pass to use restaurants, gyms etc) and things are also 'back to normal' except people aren't losing their livelihoods and aren't medically segregated. Can you provide any studies or evidence that show that vaccine passports work? Because I've listed a whole load of sources above that show they don't. I'm someone who trains and competes in a highly athletic sport and it's one of my greatest passions. I need to be in prime condition to compete but as we've seen there is a risk of pericarditis/myocarditis with these vaccines, especially in the young and healthy hence Finland, Sweden and Denmark pausing Moderna in under 30s - there are several accounts of athletes having bad reactions to the vaccine and having to stop their season and I don't want to be one of them. COVID attacks the old, the vulnerable and the unhealthy while adverse reactions can strike anyone - it's not worth the risk for me as someone who has had COVID and didn't even realise until my test came back positive - I have no risk from infection but I do have a risk (albeit small) from vaccination. The fact some people think banishing people like me from society isn't draconian is genuinely disappointing, especially with all the new data we have coming out showing how these vaccines only stop transmission by 13%.

Can’t be arsed unpicking all of that (although I disagree with a lot of it) but want to correct two obvious factual inaccuracies. First of all, Israel doesn’t have the highest cases over the last 7 days. That’s nonsense. Their cases have come right down after, guess what, more vaccinations. And this wasn’t a second booster. It was the first.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

If anyone needs PCR/Antigen tests for travel do not use Boots pharmacy. As I was coming from Spain to N.Ireland I ordered a day 2 antigen test from them thinking they're a reputable company. More fool me. Flew into Dublin yesterday and traveled up north the same day. Took the test today with the result a very clear negative. Scanned the results off to them only to be told the results were inconclusive so I now have to self isolate (Am I feck) and pay for another test and they'll refund me the money (Yeah right)

Any other members here have similar experiences or advice because I'm at a loss on what to do?

 

[Wibble]

If anyone needs PCR/Antigen tests for travel do not use Boots pharmacy. As I was coming from Spain to N.Ireland I ordered a day 2 antigen test from them thinking they're a reputable company. More fool me. Flew into Dublin yesterday and traveled up north the same day. Took the test today with the result a very clear negative. Scanned the results off to them only to be told the results were inconclusive so I now have to self isolate (Am I feck) and pay for another test and they'll refund me the money (Yeah right)

Any other members here have similar experiences or advice because I'm at a loss on what to do?

Isolated and take another test would be the obvious advice. The regulations are there for a reason. If not the minimum fine is 1000 pounds I believe.

 

[Wibble]

I assume you're being disingenuous but maybe you really don't know. Just in case it's the latter and for anyone confused by what you've said let's have a look at a couple of those reports.

On vaccination % by country v cases stats. First lets go for the obvious. Policies on testing vary massively between countries - the UK tests all its secondary age kids plus lots of other groups routinely every week. Some countries only test for diagnostic purposes, once someone is seriously ill enough to need medical attention. In many areas the people least likely to come forward for testing are the same group that are least likely to get vaccinated. Now add in the fact that for vaccinated countries - one of the big gains has been to reopen - and cases v vaccine takeup between countries really tells you very little. It's useful for more detailed analysis of things like vaccine waning but only if you understand the exact nature of the stats.

More generally, of course vaccines reduce transmission. Even if you take the worse case stats from the UK and look at groups where vaccine efficacy is waning you still see at least a 50% reduction in cases between the vaxxed and unvaxxed in comparable cohorts. You also see a reduction in onward transmission - not in initial viral load that some sites talk about (broadly the same vaxxed/unvaxxed) but in the number of days they remain infectious for.

You're correct to believe that the biggest advantage though is in reducing hospitalisations of the vulnerable where vulnerable includes a lot of working age adults. For most people who don't live in social isolation, the vulnerable are all around you and don't necessarily conform to the standard model of 80+ and frail.



That just isn't true. Many people don't know they're vulnerable until they find it out the hard way. Others like Paul Pogba, Allan Saint-Maximin didn't know they were vulnerable until they took weeks to recover from it, Karl Darlow probably reckoned he was safe until he was hospitalised with it. Or maybe you'd prefer the stories from some US based athletes.

Or you could try reading up on the myocarditis and covid studies in young men, including those cautioning athletes about the hidden risks as they return to training. https://www.jwatch.org/na53704/2021/06/04/covid-19-myocarditis-athletes

Of course regulators internationally are constantly looking at vaccine adverse reactions. It's their job. Sometimes that leads to new advice like the advice in some countries (with low covid case incidence and plenty of Pfizer as an alternative) not to use Moderna.

I'm not going to tell anyone their personal odds of being seriously affected by covid or their odds of being affected badly by the vaccine. It's a statistical question. The odds for almost everyone (main exception: people with allergic responses to the vaccine components) are that they as individuals are safer with the vaccine than without.

As an aside, personally I'm not a fan of vaccine passports etc as a long term fix and I think we're already at the point in some countries where they might do more harm in terms of public confidence and vaccine takeup than good, and compound some institutional discrimination in the process. But that's got nothing to do with my belief that we're all a lot safer in highly vaccinated communities and that mass vaccination is the safest (lowest loss of life, lowest longterm health impacts, lowest hospitalisation levels) route to reopening and normal life.

I agree with almost everything except I'm all for vaccine passports and I've been a long term advocate of institutional discrimination of the unvaccinated and not just for covid. Make it simple. If you or your kids aren't fully vaccinated or all the man diseases (flu included) you pay an extra 1% medicare levy at tax time and also be unable to claim middle class family tax breaks. In this country it would mean that only those who could afford it would be financially punished for not vaccinating. I also like our current system where you have to scan in at each venue and provide proof of your vaccination (all from the same app) but it is a great deal of time/cost enforcing it pushed onto venues, so I can see why we will be ramping this back by mid December when we will have 95% of over 16's vaccinated (and close to that of 12-15 year olds). Can't say I am looking forward to the unvaccinated being allowed into the places I frequent though and I suspect it will make me less likely to go out for a meal or go to the cinema that I am currently am where you know there are no unvaccinated people allowed.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Isolated and take another test would be the obvious advice. The regulations are there for a reason. If not the minimum fine is 1000 pounds I believe.

I've followed covid regulations stringently from day one. After getting the inconclusive test result I looked at reviews of Boots pharmacy on places like trust pilot and there's literally hundreds of people saying the same thing. So either Boots are terrible at what they do or they're actually scamming people to pay for retests. Either way why should i lose the little time I have here isolating when I have a very clear negative result? Boots have put me in a horrible position. If it was a one off result I could accept it but when so many people have the same complaint it goes beyond, "Doing the right thing."

I understand that I'll be the loser in this which is why I will take a retest although I'm not self isolating but thought others should know if they're thinking of using this company to check them out before buying tests off of them.

 

[Wibble]

I've followed covid regulations stringently from day one. After getting the inconclusive test result I looked at reviews of Boots pharmacy on places like trust pilot and there's literally hundreds of people saying the same thing. So either Boots are terrible at what they do or they're actually scamming people to pay for retests. Either way why should i lose the little time I have here isolating when I have a very clear negative result? Boots have put me in a horrible position. If it was a one off result I could accept it but when so many people have the same complaint it goes beyond, "Doing the right thing."

I understand that I'll be the loser in this which is why I will take a retest although I'm not self isolating but thought others should know if they're thinking of using this company to check them out before buying tests off of them.

How did you have a very clear negative test if it was inconclusive? It sucks but you shouldn't ignore the health advice and risk the fine no matter what. You could be infected which is why you should be isolating. What of the retest coes back positive and you have since infected friends, family and others?

Any test that requires it being self administered and then sent off for testing is going to be prone to errors and inconclusive results which is why many countries are only using test centres. People only ever leave trustpilot reviews when they are pissed off so given the millions of tests Boots have sold I'm not sure that is a very good sign of them being worse than elsewhere.

 

[jojojo]

If anyone needs PCR/Antigen tests for travel do not use Boots pharmacy. As I was coming from Spain to N.Ireland I ordered a day 2 antigen test from them thinking they're a reputable company. More fool me. Flew into Dublin yesterday and traveled up north the same day. Took the test today with the result a very clear negative. Scanned the results off to them only to be told the results were inconclusive so I now have to self isolate (Am I feck) and pay for another test and they'll refund me the money (Yeah right)

Any other members here have similar experiences or advice because I'm at a loss on what to do?

Are you talking about a LFT where you can see the results yourself? If so, the chances are that there's something wrong with the photo you sent - faulty lighting, focus issue, serial number not clear etc. The results line can be very pale on positives, so if the photo isn't clear/bright I guess it can end up getting labelled as inconclusive.

I guess there could be a batch problem that they know about, but it would be weird if they tried to charge you for that.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

I'm getting my booster shot on Thursday. First 2 were with Pfizer, wasn't sure what to choose for the third one, wish I didnt have a choice, its confusing!

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Are you talking about a LFT where you can see the results yourself? If so, the chances are that there's something wrong with the photo you sent - faulty lighting, focus issue, serial number not clear etc. The results line can be very pale on positives, so if the photo isn't clear/bright I guess it can end up getting labelled as inconclusive.

I guess there could be a batch problem that they know about, but it would be weird if they tried to charge you for that.

Exactly Jojojo. Sorry @Wibble. I didn't explain myself very well on the type of test.

As you know the test kit is white so I put it on a black background and if I say so myself the photo came out perfectly clear. I sent a copy to my wife who is also in the medical profession and she confirmed it was a clear negative result which is why I'm not going to self isolate even though the rules say I should. I'm really between a rock and a hard place because of the consequences of not adhering to the regulations but If the fault lies with the provider (Boots) then I don't think it's justified me losing x amount of days on the little time I have here.

On the subject of payment, in their email to me they did say a retest would be free. When I pressed the option to buy a voucher would appear which never did. I rang their customer services and after being on hold for nearly an hour they told me I have to buy again and they will refund me the money which I'm very sceptical of. It's not even the money that annoys me. If I have another inconclusive test I may miss my flight back to Spain so it is quite a worrying time for something that maybe be caused by something as simple as a glitch in their system at best or at worst people are being conned.

Tomorrow I'll call the 119 covid help line for advice because I'm certainly not going to be buying another kit from Boots.

 

[Wibble]

Exactly Jojojo. Sorry @Wibble. I didn't explain myself very well on the type of test.

As you know the test kit is white so I put it on a black background and if I say so myself the photo came out perfectly clear. I sent a copy to my wife who is also in the medical profession and she confirmed it was a clear negative result which is why I'm not going to self isolate even though the rules say I should. I'm really between a rock and a hard place because of the consequences of not adhering to the regulations but If the fault lies with the provider (Boots) then I don't think it's justified me losing x amount of days on the little time I have here.

On the subject of payment, in their email to me they did say a retest would be free. When I pressed the option to buy a voucher would appear which never did. I rang their customer services and after being on hold for nearly an hour they told me I have to buy again and they will refund me the money which I'm very sceptical of. It's not even the money that annoys me. If I have another inconclusive test I may miss my flight back to Spain so it is quite a worrying time for something that maybe be caused by something as simple as a glitch in their system at best or at worst people are being conned.

Tomorrow I'll call the 119 covid help line for advice because I'm certainly not going to be buying another kit from Boots.

That sucks and blows. Is that the only way of getting tested?

 

[prateik]

I havent checked for an update on this in the last few weeks..
Is Europe seeing another surge? Any new variants?

 

[jojojo]

I havent checked for an update on this in the last few weeks..
Is Europe seeing another surge? Any new variants?

Some Delta variants are attracting attention, but Delta is already so infectious that the distinctions are currently only of interest to the virologists.

The UK has had high case rates for months, but most cases have been in the U18s. Even so, in October, we were seeing 1000/week deaths. Cases are now falling in the UK and boosters (10m done so far) may be just starting to impact hospitalisations, which should mean falling death rates in a couple of weeks time.

Across Europe, cases have been rising, very fast in some countries. In northern Europe cases are going up, and places like Belgium, Ireland, Germany now have similar case rates to the UK. Basically, like the UK, they're trying to move to thinking of covid as "endemic" - a kind of covid risk/case rate that they're willing to live with, to get back to normal life. It's not an easy journey though and some may try to pause things until more vaccine boosters etc have been given.

Cases rates in France, Spain, Italy currently remain low.

Eastern Europe is experiencing high case rates and with relatively low vaccine rates in most of the countries, their highest ever covid death rates and hospitalisations.

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[The Cat]

Just tested positive on lateral flow test so going for PCR later on. Been double jabbed since the summer.

Family show no signs of it so does that mean they don't have to isolate (although they will choose to anyway it's no hardship after months of doing it before)?

Felt like a very very minor cold so did the test - if that's as bad as I get it I'll take that.

 

[Drifter]

Too many double-jabbed Britons are being hospitalised with Covid, Boris Johnson warned today as he urged people to come forward for booster doses.


He said the protection offered by the first two jabs — which wanes after six months — is leading to 'too many elderly people getting into hospital'.

But the Prime Minister said the 10million boosters that have been dished out so far are 'very effective' and give people 95 per cent more protection than two doses alone.

Mr Johnson urged everyone eligible — including over-50s, health and social care workers and over-16s with underlying health conditions — to come forward for the jab six months after their second dose.

It comes as a prominent Government adviser today hinted boosters could be needed every winter.

And former vaccine tsar Nadhim Zahawi also hinted the jabs will be needed annually, as the virus moves to the background and the UK enters an endemic.

But other experts have said that a never-ending cycle of boosters might not be needed because Covid will one day 'fade into the background'.

The sluggish booster roll out has already fallen into disarray with millions of vulnerable Britons left struggling to get appointments. Ministers have blamed the low uptake on people failing to come forward.

But elderly patients say they are unable to book appointments over the phone and don't know how to work the online system.

Ministers have tried to speed up the roll out today by allowing people to book their jab a month before they become eligible.

Someone is doing well on this scam.

 

[stw2022]

Just tested positive on lateral flow test so going for PCR later on. Been double jabbed since the summer.

Family show no signs of it so does that mean they don't have to isolate (although they will choose to anyway it's no hardship after months of doing it before)?

Felt like a very very minor cold so did the test - if that's as bad as I get it I'll take that.

If they’re double jabbed they can leave you to it

 

[The Cat]

If they’re double jabbed they can leave you to it

Thanks.

 

[R'hllor]

Should get my 2nd Pfizer jab on Thursday, it would 21 day after 1st shot, anyone knows how many weeks it needs to pass for body to build up? Kinda trying to not expose myself to much in this period, like delaying a barber visit etc.

 

[P-Ro]

Should get my 2nd Pfizer jab on Thursday, it would 21 day after 1st shot, anyone knows how many weeks it needs to pass for body to build up? Kinda trying to not expose myself to much in this period, like delaying a barber visit etc.

2 weeks is what was recommended but I waited an extra week to make sure.

 

[R'hllor]

2 weeks is what was recommended but I waited an extra week to make sure.

Okey, thanks a lot.

 

[golden_blunder]

Someone is doing well on this scam.

What do you mean, what scam?