SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

What's wrong with being in favor of lockdowns in a pandemic? It's neither all bad nor all good. But the way you're antagonizing anybody in favor if such a measure is kind of beyond me. It's as irrational as calling for a complete shutdown.

Locking down businesses and making healthy people stay at home and not socialise is an awful thing, and absolutely should be a last resort that no-one actually wants.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

Yeah this is what I've seen although in here it does seem to be doom and gloom. Admittedly I'm not following it closely hence me asking the question.

there's a lot of doom and gloom for sure. But sometimes reality consists out of doom and gloom, even if not everybody realized yet. I'm absolutely shocked about the state of germany. Thankfully, our current government will be gone soon and a new and fresh political start is possible. I expect a lot from them.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You do realise people don’t actually like lockdowns but are in favour of short circuit breakers to save lives and slow spread rather than let it get to a point where thousands more die and we go into a much longer period of stricter lockdowns?

It’s almost like there is some logic and nuance to it.

Some absolutely love it, the forum is massively in favour of lockdowns, long before it becomes a last resort.

 

[Pexbo]

Locking down businesses and making healthy people stay at home and not socialise is an awful thing, and absolutely should be a last resort that no-one actually wants.

You’re still having trouble with the concept that the motivations for “want” are different to what you think they are and are getting yourself worked up about.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You’re still having trouble with the concept that the motivations for “want” are different to what you think they are and are getting yourself worked up about.

You know I’ve always doubted how effective they are long term, and when not used as a last resort and this does nothing to convince me otherwise. That’s without even going into the “side effects” of lockdowns.
So I’m not even convinced that “wanting” it for the right reasons before last resort actually makes much sense.

 

[Pexbo]

You know I’ve always doubted how effective they are long term, and when not used as a last resort and this does nothing to convince me otherwise. That’s without even going into the “side effects” of lockdowns.

They’re more effective when not used as a last resort.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

Locking down businesses and making healthy people stay at home and not socialise is an awful thing, and absolutely should be a last resort that no-one actually wants.

People don't want lockdowns because they like it, they want them because they feel it's necessary to prevent the needless loss of human life. Locking down business in general isn't something anybody wants, even if people are asking for lockdowns, by the way. We're past that for quite a while and know which businesses to temporarily lock down or not. And yes, I think many of these businesses are pure luxury goods in a pandemic and not relevant for society on the short term. It's okay to lock down clubs if it means containing the virus so it can't lead to an actual lockdown. Most of our european countries never had a real lockdown in the actual sense, I feel like.
Making healthy people stay at home and not socialise might not be an awful thing, it might be necessary to prevent the virus to spiral even more. These healthy (affluent and like minded?) individuals are able to spread the virus to those at risk, which is why common sense and human solidarity should be dictating actions and not ideology. Isn't it obvious that we'd rather shut down some businesses and clubs instead of filling our cemeteries? Where's the compassion? Now before you say that I don't show compassion for those healthy individuals you're talking about, I know this is an awful situation but people are actually dying and we can't prevent that from happening if we don't act sometimes. But we can prevent these people from losing their business for quite a while, as we did in most european countries already. They receveid a lot of money and most of them are able to cope. Obviously this isn't working forever, but I'd rather add more debt than more corpses.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

They’re more effective when not used as a last resort.

Not long term they aren’t, hence Germany, Greece, Portugal, Austria, Switzerland etc etc.
Eventually it catches up regardless.

 

[Brwned]

What of what I said is next level in that regard?

Nothing you said was next level. The original post he quoted, that started off this conversation, literally said “I’d love another lockdown”. That’s such a weird attitude to take, it can only be said if you live in a bubble, in complete ignorance of the damage it would cause others.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

Not long term they aren’t, hence Germany, Greece, Portugal etc etc.
Eventually it catches up regardless.

yeah and now imagine we didn't do it in the first place. Situation would be even more disastrous than it is now.

 

[Tarrou]

Just wondering how people in UK feel about players and fans collapsing on foootball games becoming a regular thing after mass vaccination has been done?

To me it's absolute insanity that no one talks about it in mainstream media.

What’s the data on this?

 

[Rektsanwalt]

Nothing you said was next level. The original post he quoted, that started off this conversation, literally said “I’d love another lockdown”. That’s such a weird attitude to take, it can only be said if you live in a bubble, in complete ignorance of the damage it would cause others.

it definitely is a weird statement, no doubt about that. Personally, I don't think people actually love lockdowns, they want to express that they deem one necessary to contain the virus at least a little bit. Wording is stupidly emotional, though, I agree.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

yeah and now imagine we didn't do it in the first place. Situation would be even more disastrous than it is now.

I don’t need to imagine it, I’ve lived through it, and it’s been no more disastrous than early “winners” Germany, Greece, Austria, Switzerland and about 50 other countries.
Long term the non last resort lockdowns don’t appear to make a country less disastrous, so claiming at this point “I’d love another lockdown” is bizarre to me.

 

[gaucho_10]

There’s loads of “MSM” articles on it, you just don’t want to share any of them as they all dismiss it as there is no actual evidence to back up the claims.

There's also this;

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

You have to be brainwashed to think nothing unusual is happening with these vaccines.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

I don’t need to imagine it, I’ve lived through it, and it’s been no more disastrous than early “winners” Germany, Greece, Austria, Switzerland and about 50 other countries.
Long term the non last resort lockdowns don’t appear to make a country less disastrous, so claiming at this point “I’d love another lockdown” is bizarre to me.

I don't think every country is comparable in that regard. Which is why some measures are appropriate in some countries but aren't in others. Regional aspects play a huge role as well. So I refrain from generalizing stuff like this. It's highly complicated and not simply bad/unncessary oder good/necessary in every case.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

There's also this;

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

You have to be brainwashed to think nothing unusual is happening with these vaccines.

That’s a tweet, where’s the evidence?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I don't think every country is comparable in that regard.

Me neither. But the excess mortality paints a picture that simply “lockdowns good, save lives” is in fact a much more nuanced debate. Certainly much more nuanced than anyone was willing to concede on here 1 year ago.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

There's also this;

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

You have to be brainwashed to think nothing unusual is happening with these vaccines.

I've read completely different numbers in that regard. Can you back this up with actual statistics or at least reliable sources or is this just some idelogy ridden panic?

Me neither. But the excess mortality paints a picture that simply “lockdowns good, save lives” is in fact a much more nuanced debate. Certainly much more nuanced than anyone was willing to concede on here 1 year ago.

Excess mortality can be caused by many things - I didn't look up every graph on the site you linked, but isn't it possible that many cases of excess mortaility might be caused by corona virus (directly) and indirectly (postponing planned diagnosis/surgeries because of a near collapse of the health care system)?

Edit: rightfully it's a lot more nuanced than it was 1 year ago, as we know a lot more since then. But bear in mind, in such a disastrous situation, taking a careful and more restrictive approach is not improper, considering our level of knowledge back then.

 

[Brwned]

There's also this;

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

You have to be brainwashed to think nothing unusual is happening with these vaccines.

You’re aware there’s a virus going around that causes heart issues more frequently than the vaccines, right?

 

[gaucho_10]

That’s a tweet, where’s the evidence?

Evidence is in font of your tv screen every single day. Watched Real- Shakthar in CL, the guy collapsed on the pitch. Two days later player colapses in EPL and one in the championship and couple of fans on the stadiums just so that they're not left out of this new trend.


Divers, tennis players, NBA players, all sorts of professional athleets ending their carees after mio and peri carditis post vaccination.

I'm not going to debate this any more or post about if, just wanted to check how people feel about this. We can disagree on this and it's OK.

 

[jojojo]

There's also this;

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

You have to be brainwashed to think nothing unusual is happening with these vaccines.

Or perhaps they have caught covid at some point in the past 18 months and their recovery was not as full as they hoped or believed. Do you have their medical histories to hand?

Assuming that the random tweeter didn't just imagine it of course.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

Evidence is in font of your tv screen every single day. Watched Real- Shakthar in CL, the guy collapsed on the pitch. Two days later player colapses in EPL and one in the championship and couple of fans on the stadiums just so that they're not left out of this new trend.

I'm not going to debate this any more or post about if, just wanted to check how people feel about this.

My feeling about is that without proper evidence, statistics, sources or anything that actually matters this is just an expression of fear by people who are generally (completely) against vaccines or irrationally frightened by them.

 

[Vidyoyo]

My feeling about is that without proper evidence, statistics, sources or anything that actually matters this is just an expression of fear by people who are generally (completely) against vaccines or irrationally frightened by them.

This but also the idea it could be a variety of factors, including both complications with vaccines and the actual impact of the virus.

Who knows though. I haven't done any research.

 

[calodo2003]

There's also this;

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

You have to be brainwashed to think nothing unusual is happening with these vaccines.

How many of those 188 had Covid?

 

[Buster15]

A couple of people I know have not received any vaccinations at all and been against the whole vaccination programme.
Both have recently caught Covid and have been pretty ill.
What goes around comes around eh.

 

[Pexbo]

There's also this;

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

You have to be brainwashed to think nothing unusual is happening with these vaccines.

Source for that data?

 

[Rektsanwalt]

For what it's worth, I sometimes help a doctor doing some paperwork/legal stuff for in what's in germany called "Impf-Aktionen", so special vaccination events so to say, outside of the usual business. She vaccinated (personally or under her "command") around 15.000 people so far over the last 12 months (another 1000 today) and keeps track of severe side effects. There wasn't a single case so far with any side effect that affected the heart, so no myocarditis, no pericarditis whatsoever.
As I was concerned of this side effect as well - I suffer from cardiophobia - I chose to book appointments at my cardiologist after every shot to be sure that everything's fine. Results were all okay. But even if we see this side effect as extremely terrifying, bear in mind that the risks of the virus causing myocarditis or other heart related illnesses is a lot higher than the risk of the vaccine causing something that affects the heart.

 

[Vidyoyo]

For what it's worth, I sometimes help a doctor doing some paperwork/legal stuff for in what's in germany called "Impf-Aktionen", so special vaccination events so to say, outside of the usual business. She vaccinated (personally or under her "command") around 15.000 people so far over the last 12 months (another 1000 today) and keeps track of severe side effects. There wasn't a single case so far with any side effect that affected the heart, so no myocarditis, no pericarditis whatsoever.
As I was concerned of this side effect as well - I suffer from cardiophobia - I chose to book appointments at my cardiologist after every shot to be sure that everything's fine. Results were all okay. But even if we see this side effect as extremely terrifying, bear in mind that the risks of the virus causing myocarditis or other heart related illnesses is a lot higher than the risk of the vaccine causing something that affects the heart.

Good post.

 

[djembatheking]

There's also this;

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

You have to be brainwashed to think nothing unusual is happening with these vaccines.

How many had actually been vaccinated?

 

[massi83]

Why are people even taking the 188 at face value? It is just random twitter guy as a "source".

 

[Tarrou]

Evidence is in font of your tv screen every single day. Watched Real- Shakthar in CL, the guy collapsed on the pitch. Two days later player colapses in EPL and one in the championship and couple of fans on the stadiums just so that they're not left out of this new trend.


Divers, tennis players, NBA players, all sorts of professional athleets ending their carees after mio and peri carditis post vaccination.

I'm not going to debate this any more or post about if, just wanted to check how people feel about this. We can disagree on this and it's OK.

this is a unique situation and we have to be open to all possibilities in order to assess things and properly address the problem

But we need reliable data to even begin to draw any conclusions

A random tweet saying 188 is meaningless without proof and if there really were that many I have no doubt the antivax lot would be all over it

 

[choccy77]

I'm pretty sure that west ham player just caught and infected about 60 people in the crowd just now.

 

[choccy77]

A working from home order will surely be actioned ASAP in England now, won’t it?

The UK government is playing Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun.

Don't bet on it.

Boris is clueless and runs the country like a yoyo

 

[cyberman]

There's also this;

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

You have to be brainwashed to think nothing unusual is happening with these vaccines.

The mad schedule has nothing to do with it then? We are literally running them into the ground during a pandemic

 

[carpy]

There's also this;

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

You have to be brainwashed to think nothing unusual is happening with these vaccines.

The 4/5 per year claim seems to be total bullshit in itself:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33361135/

From 2014-2018...

Results: A total of 617 players (mean age 34±16 years, 96% men) with sudden death were reported from 67 countries; 142 players (23%) survived

 

[Tarrou]

The 4/5 per year claim seems to be total bullshit in itself:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33361135/

From 2014-2018...

23% survived sudden death definitely something fishy going on

 

[golden_blunder]

Myself and my son both went for covid tests this morning, at his school all but 4 kids in one class were out with positive tests. My son came back with a cough and now I’ve got a scratchy throat and a cough. Hopefully just a cold

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Just wondering how people in UK feel about players and fans collapsing on foootball games becoming a regular thing after mass vaccination has been done?

To me it's absolute insanity that no one talks about it in mainstream media.

I’m not a fan of it

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

There's also this;

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

You have to be brainwashed to think nothing unusual is happening with these vaccines.

Could it not be the after effects of Covid itself?

 

[Pexbo]

Could it not be the after effects of Covid itself?

Wake up