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I think he’s looking excellent. Could be a big year for him.
Long gone the days people criticize him. He’s an automatic starter along with DDG and wan bissaka.
Perfect ball control in a press, perfect first touch, perfect decisions and perfect work ethic. Carrick.
Only criticism he’ll ever get is as a result of pogba fecking around with flicks in midfield losing the ball in dangerous areas in a midfield 2.
Should be tried in our next game
Think he is a valuable squad player and just the kind of worker and spoiler you want in the big games, like Fletcher used to be. Not sure I see him as an automatic starter though, especially if we sign others that is stretching it a bit for me, think he is a decent central midfielder that has really improved but not sure his ceiling is much higher than it currently is
Such a potential for a quality DMF. He'll have a pretty good career here.
Physically he looks huge. Him and Pogba in the pivot is the way forward.
He is huge, and he is also quite rapid and has great stamina. I really hope that our young players such as him, Rashford, Gomes, Greenwood and AWB will have a good season.
Thing i like about him is that he keep the momentum going. Does not ponder on the ball or showboat ect.. Picks ground passes immediately as he receives the ball. Such a sight of relief.
I would love it if he really made it with us. He was mocked much the same Fletcher was when he was first breaking through but he was one of the few players last season who came out with any credit.
He shows his progressive passing in meaningless games. I really wish he could do it when it matter. I don't know if it's nerves on thebig stage, or manager's instructions.
He did well against Leeds today. Got caught out by midfield runners a couple of times, but he's young enough to learn from it if his role this season is going to be as the holding midfielder.
To be fair to McTominay, Darren Fletcher's biggest flaw was that he didn't bring out the more progressive passing when we were dominating teams in the bottom half of the table. I remember a lot of frustration with the combination of him and Carrick being a bit too controlled and unadventurous when Fergie used just the two of them as a midfield pairing.
Hopefully as McTominay develops he'll start bringing out some of the more progressive passing in the big matches.
I think the key factor for United top 4 spot is here. If this boy can do a good job as Kante and Fernandinho for City or as closest to the level of those two. United chance for top 4 will rise.
He seems like can run a lot and with high work rate. And i think his ball control and skills are good enough to play as a more deep laying cm, a more defensive cm player.
Can partner Pogba in a 2 men central midfiled. So it is interesting to see if he can be consistent really good over a whole season. Then again. The key factor for top 4 is here. Win the battle of midfield.
he is a lot more mobile (and progressive) than Matic.
Bit unrealistic to expect that from a 21 year old in his first full season
Been trying to stay out of this thread because I know the caf has one consensus at the moment, and disagreement with it will probably just descend to name-calling or diversion.
I never really rated Scott, but I do acknowledge that he has shown himself to be much more useful than I had thought this time last year. That said, I do think people are going massively overboard. I do think he has played well, but a massive amount of context is also applied to that. He’s played well, to me, largely in the sense that he had shown next to nothing for so long, and in a midfield/team that was so poor, and then started standing up. He showed the energy and commitment that often endears fans to players. But for me, he hasn’t been that good in the context of a neutral football observer looking at the more talented young midfielders in the game. For all of his effort, for me, he has not shown real actual high/top level midfield talent. He doesn’t look after the ball nearly well enough in my opinion, hasn’t really got the feet to evade the press, and doesn’t pass well enough.
If he were not a United kid that we were willing on, even his impressive games would have him nowhere near our fans radars I don’t think. I can’t say the same for Gomes or Greenwood, for example. Effort aside, local affinity aside, running aside - they have clear top level talent that I don’t think applies to Scott. I disagree with what seems to be a consensus that he should be an automatic fixture in our midfield. I don’t know what he will become, but as of now, I’m my humble opinion, he’s not nearly good enough to be an automatic starter for United. I do agree though that he has shown enough for me to not see him in the way I used to, which was genuine bemusement as to what the hell he was doing at the club. I think he should be a squad player for now at most, and by all means, if he grows into something more then fair play. But he’s certainly not that player now. He has energy, bravery and is tall - but he doesn’t have that much actual top quality from what I can see.
Are you over 80? I’m 61 and don’t remember people calling for Wilf or O’Farrell to be given “more time”. United did what every other club did then and does now: sack failed managers until one comes along that succeeds.
I don’t support Ole because he “gets the club”. I support him because he showed glimpses of decent and successful football early on in his reign; glimpses that have again been revealed this pre-season, early days as they are. Some of the criticism he’s received has undoubtedly been ridiculously over the top, not helped by the fact that there are still a few injured Jose fanboys around. People have every right to be sceptical though.
Seconded. For now he has clearly jumped Matic in the pecking order and turned out to be very useful when not playing next to Fellaini and him or at CB . However people putting him in dream line ups/automatic starterr etc have definitely gone overboard.
Thats why i use the word IF
And i like the way he is playing football. Keep and do it simple. Few touch quick football, not sideways, but forward if possible. Doucoure from Watford is doing the same. Few touches quick combination football.
You dont need to beat players all the time as cm player. Its more of the wingers abilities. Pass the ball is quicker than you run with the ball.
So as a more defensive cm. He can turn out to be a really good dcm. He is not a mood player and has the hard work mentality + he is athlete and can run alot.
McTom can be a key player for United season 19/20.
Like many of the younger players in this squad, this season will be a steep learning curve for all of them, Scott included, and although I think technically he is limited, he has the heart and aggression required to win the ball, and use it sensibly, he will get shown up from time to time with his lack of experience, but that will be the case for every young player who starts in the first team, some posters on here will get on their back straight away, but I hope that we have enough guile to gain that top four spot, put in good performances against the top clubs, and also have excellent runs in all the cup competitions, and with a bit of fortune, finish with some silverware. The following season is when we will have a team who will be gunning for top spot, and also a good run in the CL.
But there's slim to no chance of him playing like that. So it's irrelevant.
As irrelevant as me saying that if Lingard and Sanchez play like Mane and Salah next season, we'll be challenging for the title.
I agree with the McTom analysis though. Tidy player.
Everything bolded is wrong. He has proven to look after the ball extremely well and evades the press regularly. I stopped reading after I read this sentence.
Edit: His passing isn't hugely expansive, but he passes between the lines well and moves the ball quickly. It's something to be improved though, definitely.
Can stop reading after the first word for all I care.
Can you give me any examples of when he has lost the ball to the press? I can give you plenty of examples when he hasn't.
That’s a ridiculous question. I’m not going to give specific examples of where Scott McTominay was dispossessed, nor should I be required to in order to demonstrate that Scott McTominay gets dispossessed.
His ball manipulation is very ordinary. If he were to leave United tomorrow, the list of options for him would be extremely unflattering. Some perspective is needed with regards to his apparent ability, otherwise all that will happen is that people will be disappointed. He’s played enough games to not be a secret in football, yet he is not regarded as one of the best young midfielders in the game.
If we are asking questions, what do you think his outstanding qualities are? In my own observation, none of them are things that involve the actual usage of the football. For a Manchester United central midfielder, I don’t think it’s good enough. He gives us the energy we need, he is robust, and also looks to be a goal threat as he is purposeful with his movement.
His passing, dribbling is ordinary. At the moment, he may we’ll be the best option we have, to his credit, but he isn’t good enough that we don’t need to worry about that position. We are Manchester United, we can actually have it all, or try to. People have questioned Longstaff a lot, but he looks much better on the ball than Scott, and you can see that the first time watching him. The passing range from left and right foot. It’s not a bonus at United, it’s an expectation. Look at Rodri who just joined City. Same age as Scott. They are not ‘lucky’ to have those qualities in midfield. They demand them, and if they didn’t have them, they would remain in the market for that player as a position which needs upgrading until they do. We shouldn’t be settling for Scott McTominay as our DM as he simply isn’t a good enough footballer.
As a squad player, I don’t begrudge him, and that is no criticism of him either, it’s a fantastic achievement for a player with his talent level. He is no Gomes, Januzaj, Rossi, Rashford Greenwood. That’s the calibre of midfield/forward who we expect to make it through. If Scott was the bar, we could have had loads more players from the academy walking into our midfield over the years. The bar is higher than Scott. It simply has to be.
I would say his outstanding quality is that he holds onto the ball, almost all the time, as evidenced against some of the best pressing teams in world football. He also moves the ball quickly and efficiently and passes through the lines well. He does have to improve aspects of his game, such as passing range, but currently, I'm very happy with him and his development. He's one of these players that seems to improve every time I watch him, I'm sure he'll improve almost every part of his game this coming season.
I really think so many people will be shocked by Mctominay this year. If he becomes more vocal on the field we'll have a proper general in midfield. He's also getting my much better on the ball, almost on a game by game basis.
Size, mobility and comfort on the ball are good enough. I'd say he's likely to be our backup 6 when all is said and done and either Garner or a signing establishes themselves there, but that's pretty impressive all in all. Tough to see him not starting away a ton considering how slow Matic has gotten.
I don't know about him being able to pass through lines. I would say he's not very good at that. And he's able to hold onto the ball because he recognizes his limitations and simply passes it off whenever pressed or shields the ball when there is no option. On the face of it, that is something all midfielders should do right? Difference is that he does it in a way where he's not advancing play or letting United dominate possession. For example, if you gave the ball to Iniesta, he'll find a way to retain possession despite being pricked at by multiple defenders. He would do that by footwork like the croqueta, or by his great 1 touch passing, or by his great touch in congested areas. That's not something McTominay will do despite the achievement of retaining possession while being pressed. The best midfielders do it in a way where they can dominate possession.
I actually think he's done a good job of making himself serviceable to United and he does have a place in the squad if he continues with that. I just don't think that will ever be good enough for a starting role when our midfielders need to be elite. And that's fine. The fact that he's more limited than Pereira and has not been a liability speaks well to his maturity in regards to recognizing his own limitations. Pereiera on the other hand, lost the ball in dangerous areas because of his carelessness despite being more talented. Credit to McTominay.
This type of expectation regarding to certain standard quality on players needs to stop. Liverpool won CL with caliber of midfield that is not good enough in your standard. Spurs went to CL final with Sissoko & Winks in their midfield. It’s okay to set standard on players but sometime there are 2 or 3 players in XI that don’t need to be top class or top talent as long as they can be effective for the benefit of the team.
We aren’t going to have full XI top class players. Player as caliber Mctominay might be an ordinary midfielder but he has assets that can be crucial to get the best out of any team & including player like Pogba. He’s still very young & has many years to make improvement. At the moment he shouldn’t be our concern.
He's going to be a success IMO.
His physical attributes are massive but even more importantly he has all the mental attributes to succeed. I think he knows he is maybe not the most talented but hard work will make up for that. I do see a lot of Fletcher in his game and if he can reach that level then he will have a very good career.
Could see him with the armband one day if he continues to work hard.
He needs some luck though. He looks a little limited right now because the rest of the ream lacks quality. When Fletcher won the ball back he'd roll it to Scholes, Giggs, Rooney or Ronaldo. When Mctom wins the ball he gives it to Sanchez, Lukaku, Lingard or Pogba. That's quite a difference.
It may well turn out that McTominay establishes himself in the team, and everything you said is true. That said, that is more circumstantial. A top team does not deliberately develop an average talent to be in their first XI though.
Every average player either bought or developed that ends up in a top side was either signed with the initial expectation of being a top player, or developed with the initial expectation of being one. Players may fall short, and that is okay. It’s the reason why Lingard was always profiled as a squad player coming through. He has ended up something of a regular, which has been a combination of his own effort and the disappointment of those with more talent expected to be a starter. But you don’t deliberately develop average talent. John O’Shea ended up a useful squaddie for us, for example. He came through as a potential world beater though.
When you start deliberately trying to develop the McTominay’s of this world into first XI players on the basis that you can’t have a team full of top players, what happens is the small few of actual top players you thought you were entitled to also may not hit their heights, and then you just have an average team that lacks talent. It makes sense to speculate on Longstaff, for example, on the basis that you can see top class passing potential, control and shooting. There’s no guarantee he’d be as good as say Carrick, who himself, when at his very prime, was closer to the ‘ordinary player in the team’ category for us, despite being far more talented than McTominay - but there is a proper basis of your gamble. With Scott, he just seems a ‘right place right time’ player to me. If I told someone to write down their justification for Scott McTominay being a Manchester United player in his own right, I believe they would struggle to compel.
Your evaluation of him is simply wrong on several accounts. Scott McTominay has consistently been one of our best players against good teams for more than one year. There is several reasons why;
1. He is exceptional when the other team has the ball. Not only due immense physical attributes (pace, power etc), but also positioning.
2. He is actually very good on the ball. His touch basically «never» lets him down and he is great at protecting tve ball. Almost press resistent. Rewatch the games against Barca or PSG. There is plenty of evidence to how well he copes with little time and space on the ball. One situation that stuck to my mind was when he escaped Vidals sliding tackling in our own box (gif anyone?). Not only did he have to have a good touch and technique, he needed a quick head.
3. He is a smart footballer who reads and understand the game quickly and well. He rarely makes a mistake and he also has a great understanding of space. If he played as an #8 consistently, I’m sure he would be a goal threat. Especially since he has a very good strike on the ball aswell.
He has two big weaknesses and they are big for a MU-midfielder;
1. Is not good enough at making himself available for his team mates
2. Not progressive in his passing
He should be able to develop in both aspects. If he do, he will be anything but average.
And lets not forget, he is just 22. At the same age van Dijk was a nobody in Eredivise, Drogba played in Ligue 2 (for a few more years), Maguire could not get a game for Hull and Yaya played for some average team in Ukrainian football. He can develop a lot.
And there is probably a reason why both van Gaal, Mourinho and Solskjaer likes him.
That driving run from deep leading to Rashford scoring was quite impressive. More of that, please.
He is not physically exceptional at all, in my opinion. He probably will be in a couple of years, but because he is tall, doesn’t mean he is strong. I regularly see him pushed over.
He isn’t excellent on the ball. I mean, he seems very good at the simplicity of the game. His touch is fine, and simple passing is fine. But he is not press resistant. I’ve seen him run the ball out of play similarly to the infamous Fellaini vs Bayern clip under pressure. He can do the basics well. I’ll give you ‘very well’, just to try and demonstrate that this isn’t some personal agenda. Beyond the basics. I.e - the top 6 level, no chance for me. Compare him to say, Jack Wilshere when he was coming through at Arsenal. That’s what a young midfielder who is ‘good on the ball’ looks like to me, and he was absolutely miles above Scott. It was because of his obvious ability that it didn’t require much explanation as to why he was coming through at one of the big clubs. He had the requisite talent.
I’ll give that the other more intangibles you have mentioned, not because I necessarily agree with them, but because I don’t DISagree, haven’t an opinion really. I also agree that he has a very good strike on him, and think he will be a goal threat, not even in the future, but from now. He shoots well, and regularly gets into good offensive positions. When he physically develops more, he will score a fair few headers too.
I also agree that he has been one of the best players for us in some big games this year. In my observation, that was because he did himself a great credit, and didn’t fall apart when his teammates did. He put in the effort, chased and harassed players, in games where we had significantly less of the ball and won some key fouls. Then lastly, there is the context of the expectation on him being less than the rest, which added to his impressiveness. He showed more than those of whom more was expected. Fair play to him.
That said, I think that a Scott McTominay ‘good game’ is largely based upon what he does without a football. In terms of quality, he’s a total different level to Angel Gomes, Mason Greenwood and even Axel to me. Not sure how to articulate it best. He’s just not ‘made from Louis Vuitton fabric’, for want of a better expression. Just watching Mason or Gomes for 5 minutes, you can see that they are. James Garner seems a similar profile, and I think it’s evident that he is a higher calibre of football ability. I think a lot of the things you have listed for Scott as attributes are things he has shown competence in, but not excellence. Young Wilshere, Gomes, Foden etc - that is what top level ‘ability on the ball’ and stuff looks like. If you’re categorising McTominay with them then you are being way too generous. His ability is ordinary.
I have nothing against him, and this is why I was reluctant to even open this thread until yesterday because I knew what I’d find and that I’d end up giving MY view which would differ, but I guess I couldn’t help it. I think many posters want him to do well, want him to be the answer - but the reality is that he isn’t that good in my opinion. He’s an extremely lucky boy, in that I think over the last decade, many midfielders we have let go could have also been ‘useful’ if we drew their name from a hat and decided to give them loads of games in the first team. I honestly think that most players who make it into the United reserves, except for in the forward positions - could be a ‘squad player’ if we gave them 100 games. Usually, only the ones with far more talent than Scott get the opportunity, from my experience. If only they provide the effort, they can bridge the gap so to speak and make themselves useful. But Scott isn’t top drawer football talent. He’s a decent talent with a good attitude and a good frame. We’ve had many who are no less talented (maybe a few inches shorter, crucially) who have been let go without an appearance or 5 and nobody has batted an eyelid, just as nobody would have raised a brow if Scott was never even given his debut.
Think I’ll leave this now, was reluctant to enter the conversation, as the longer it goes back and forth between me and the rest of the caf who think Scott is amazing, it will seem like I have some sort of agenda, and be called something ridiculous like a ‘McTominay hater’ knowing this place.
Said my piece. I don’t see the top talent everyone else seems to see. I think if he left us he’d be looking at Palace and the like, and if he were English, he wouldn’t be one of the young midfielders being touted for the national team. Not withstanding, he’s here now, and good luck to him.
I don't think anyone thinks he’s amazing and a top talent but he is clearly talented with a good mentality. Not sure what you are expecting from him.
Here you are simply wrong. He is a better footballer than most of them. Just because he doesn’t have a touch like Gomes and is 5 inches taller than the rest doesn’t change that. His understanding on the pitch is above most that play for the reserves.
I'm not sure he's watching the same player if he doesn't think he's physically exceptional and has regularly seen him pushed over.
Easily holds his own at Premier League level.
Easy to say that now. I recall both his time in our academy and the time of those I’m referring to. He showed no more ability than Ben Pearson, Matt James, David Jones, Ryan Tunnicliffe, Larnell Cole and co who never got a look in here. If he was let go instead of, to everyone’s surprise, brought into the squad by Jose - we would have been talking about Rotherham at best or SPL.
I think if we drew Ben Pearson’s name and said ‘you will be in the squad for the next few years, he’d have had good games and bad games, he’d have been ‘useful’, he’d have run and tackled and been told that he ‘gets it’ when the fancy foreigners are not standing up. Same goes for others. However, the bar was above him. Josh Harrop was far more talented than Scott McTominay for example.
You say ‘just because he doesn’t have a touch (or passing, or dribbling for that matter) of Gomes like it shouldn’t matter if he doesn’t. That’s the point. Angel Gomes isn’t the first or only young player to have that level of talent. It’s not an exceptional level that top clubs shouldn’t necessarily require. The likes of Foden, Nelson, Gibbs-White and a number of others also have this level of talent, which is why they are the ones selected from their academies to progress. If you don’t have the ability of Gomes that is fine too, but then it’s not mandatory for you to be given a chance at United, I thought only that tier of talent gets a real chance taken on them at the biggest clubs. The rest often join a smaller team.
The point with Gomes, and Rossi, Pogba, Januzaj and co is that most youth players don’t get the luxury of a proper crack at the United first team unless they are in this bracket. I’m not suggesting McTominay could not be a professional footballer or anything, or even a PL one. I’m saying that I don’t expect Mark Noble to come through a United academy either. There’s no point in me listing the things Mark Noble is ‘good’ at. He isn’t good enough at them, is the point - not to be given a chance at Manchester United anyway. And if he was, then the same could be said about so many other players at a similar level. That’s my point with Scott. I see no exceptional talent at all to explain why he plays for Manchester United and not Bournemouth. Most reserves don’t get a proper crack. The Gomes we speak of may not make it here given the chance. I’m just saying that it is a lot more obvious to me why he should have been given that chance than a Scott McTominay. He’s an upper level talent, not a mid-level. Other ‘good’ ones like Daelhi, Eikrem, Buffonge have not gotten a shot. DJ Buffonge doesn’t have less footballing talent than Scott McTominay, and if I were him I’d watch Scott and feel I were entitled to a chance at United too, if he is.
He's so good at winning the ball back and uses it quickly. If he doesn't have an option on, he's good at taking the contact from the press and winning free's.
Attitude is unquestionable, workrate, desire and hunger is clearly there. He's not the most talented, but what he does bring is a specific set of skills that our midfield has been lacking in some time. If he's to play in midfield with Pogba, I think we need another midfielder in there who compliments both of them. Someone who can really control the tempo of the game, in the ilk of a Pjanic or a Kroos.
I think McTominay easily can reach the level that Fletcher did before he got his illness, or another comparison would be to Khedira. Often these guys never get the plaudits from the fans, only the coaches who have drilled them all week for a specific role in the team might truly appreciate their worth in the squad.
McTominay has grown on me for sure, and I think if he continues the way he is developing, he could be a really good player for us.
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