[CM]

Pre season can be very deceiving. How many times did we see Pereira turn into Pirlo during preseason games

I think both players mentioned will come good, but if Garmacho is being slowly introduced, then there's no way ten Hag will throw either of those two into the deep end. And rightly so.
McTominay isn't a bad player. He had a poor game yesterday though. I'll give you that

Yesterday was the first league game McTominay has started since we got humped by City, and even that was out of necessity. Between that game and the Arsenal game yesterday, McTominay has played 117 minutes in the league. I think that demonstrates pretty clearly Ten Hag doesn't trust him much, and therefore giving those minutes to either of Iqbal or Mainoo wouldn't be throwing them in at the deep end.

For comparison, Garnacho has played 236 minutes in the league since the City game. 5 of those he didn't even feature in at all because he hadn't broken through yet.

 

[AltiUn]

He's useless.

 

[Zippycup]

Yesterday was the first league game McTominay has started since we got humped by City, and even that was out of necessity. Between that game and the Arsenal game yesterday, McTominay has played 117 minutes in the league. I think that demonstrates pretty clearly Ten Hag doesn't trust him much, and therefore giving those minutes to either of Iqbal or Mainoo wouldn't be throwing them in at the deep end.

For comparison, Garnacho has played 236 minutes in the league since the City game. 5 of those he didn't even feature in at all because he hadn't broken through yet.

Yes
Giving them those minutes would he fine. The problems would come through Casemiro getting injured. That's why the likes of McTominay are important. For this season anyway.

Given his lack of minutes is it any wonder he didn't play that well yesterday?

 

[Asger]

And be left with who for the remainder of the season?

Playing with 10 players would be better.

 

[NZT-One]

Did Fred go and play right wing then? Or did Bruno move to right wing, eriksen move into the no 10 role and Fred drop into the deeper left sided role ? The role that was being occupied by Eriksen before that sub.

We were under the Cosh sure but we were still threatening with fast transitions through the middle, as soon Fred come into the mix all we could do was go long and we just ended up getting penned ln compleatly.

Im not putting the blame on Fred, but with the mcfred combo you basically lose the ability to play through midfield at all because neither of them are good enough on the ball under pressure.

Fred went into the position that was occupied by Eriksen before but as we were under the cosh, this position and Eriksens position at 10, as you mentioned differed by 5-10 meters. I would agree with you, adding him to the team didn't really change the game but to say it was because of him seems weird to me. Arsenal turned up the heat because they were at home chasing a winner and had built up quite a bit of momentum and pressure. Eriksen was still on the pitch, Bruno was as well so the capability of making use of turnovers was absolutely there, we just couldn't get the ball anymore. Our attacks before were also mostly trying to skip the midfield more or less. And even if we scored twice, one was a slip up in the Arsenal defence (followed by an awesome finish) and the other was a standard, so not like we were going toe to toe. Especially not in 2nd half.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Yes
Giving them those minutes would he fine. The problems would come through Casemiro getting injured. That's why the likes of McTominay are important. For this season anyway.

Given his lack of minutes is it any wonder he didn't play that well yesterday?

Except he turned in the same sort of performance when he was playing a lot, Brighton, Brentford, City.

And you keep insisting that he’s a good player, so what is he actually good at? Because a midfielder in the bottom 30th percentile of the league for pass attempted/completed certainly doesn’t scream quality.

 

[CM]

Yes
Giving them those minutes would he fine. The problems would come through Casemiro getting injured. That's why the likes of McTominay are important. For this season anyway.

Given his lack of minutes is it any wonder he didn't play that well yesterday?

But he has proven exactly why he isn't important. We've had our best run in years when McTominay has been restricted to limited minutes off the bench. It's not just a case of not playing well yesterday. It's not playing well in just about any important game for the last however many years. McTominay was on the pitch in just about every game where we got beaten by cricket scores last season. He's not cut out for this level.

McTominay honks because he doesn't have any of the qualities a Manchester United player should have, not because he hasn't played. He has actually picked up minutes in some of the lesser games in the domestic cups, so it's not that he hasn't played at all.

 

[Zippycup]

Except he turned in the same sort of performance when he was playing a lot, Brighton, Brentford, City.

And you keep insisting that he’s a good player, so what is he actually good at? Because a midfielder in the bottom 30th percentile of the league for pass attempted/completed certainly doesn’t scream quality.

He's a good fringe player. As I've said previously, we need players in the squad who are happy to step in when needs be. He isn't in our best starting 11. We can't have two Casemiros for one position

 

[Zippycup]

But he has proven exactly why he isn't important. We've had our best run in years when McTominay has been restricted to limited minutes off the bench. It's not just a case of not playing well yesterday. It's not playing well in just about any important game for the last however many years. McTominay was on the pitch in just about every game where we got beaten by cricket scores last season. He's not cut out for this level.

McTominay honks because he doesn't have any of the qualities a Manchester United player should have, not because he hasn't played. He has actually picked up minutes in some of the lesser games in the domestic cups, so it's not that he hasn't played at all.

We've had our best run because we have arguably the best defensive mid in world football playing for us.

Bloody hell. Football is a squad game and you need fringe players within the squad.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He's a good fringe player. As I've said previously, we need players in the squad who are happy to step in when needs be. He isn't in our best starting 11. We can't have two Casemiros for one position

We don’t just need players who are happy to step in. We need players who can step in and contribute a hell of a lot more than Scott McTominay.

When Liverpool were at their best they had Milner as their equivalent. Compare his stats to McTominay’s. Night and day.

 

[Asger]

We've had our best run because we have arguably the best defensive mid in world football playing for us.

Bloody hell. Football is a squad game and you need fringe players within the squad.

Yes but he is far from a PL fringe player! He even struggle vs Charlton midfield. League two is probably his level. He doesn't even play as midfielder with Scotland!

 

[dutchred]

We need to bring in a midfielder who can interchange with Eriksen (who cant last more than 1/2 game) or risk Mainoo to do that job

 

[CM]

We've had our best run because we have arguably the best defensive mid in world football playing for us.

Bloody hell. Football is a squad game and you need fringe players within the squad.

Fringe players have got to earn their right to play too. He's a midfielder who is allergic to the football.

Last season City had Rodri and Fernandinho. That's the kind of depth required if you want to compete for the big prizes. McTominay falls well short of that standard.

 

[Mcking]

He's a good fringe player. As I've said previously, we need players in the squad who are happy to step in when needs be. He isn't in our best starting 11. We can't have two Casemiros for one position

I'm happy to step in too. I'm sure we would all be happy to step in when needs be.

 

[Zippycup]

Yes but he is far from a PL fringe player! He even struggle vs Charlton midfield. League two is probably his level. He doesn't even play as midfielder with Scotland!

Oh give over.
It's posts like this why people's opinions on football aren't worth noting.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

He is quite useless, Ten Hag is trying to implement a high level style of play and McTominay is a way too low level in his ability to be able to perform or contribute in Ten Hag's style, that's why I question why would Ten Hag even play him!! Ten Hag benched Maguire and even preferred Shaw over him, he should do the same with McTominay.

 

[Zippycup]

I'm happy to step in too. I'm sure we would all be happy to step in when needs be.

The difference is you're not a professional football player.

And before you come back with the "either is McTominay" gag you'll find that he is.

 

[JeffFromHK]

I would rather play that 11-13 Cleverley over McTominay. at least Cleverley showed up for the ball and he didn't look too out of place when we played against teams like Real Madrid or Man City.
McTominay destroys our rhythm and control of the game.
His defensive contribution per 90 is only half of Casemiro's, so the talk that "he is a good at defending" is nonsense

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

He's a good fringe player. As I've said previously, we need players in the squad who are happy to step in when needs be. He isn't in our best starting 11. We can't have two Casemiros for one position

You haven’t answered my question. What is he actially good at? Is he technically sound? Is he press resistant? Is he defensively aware? Is he a goal threat? Is he a metronomic passer? What actual, stand out attributes that Scott McTominay posseses that would be beneficial to the team with his inclusion?

 

[Jordan_mufc]

The problem that I have with him is that he isn't able to be a competent cog in this United team.

The premise of a good squad player is that they can fill in and give you a 7 or 8/10 performance when needed. What holds them back from being starters is that they can't do it consistently.

The issue with Scott is that he fills in and is a detriment to the team. Always out of position, constantly giving the ball away and inviting pressure. That is not a squad player, that's a liability that needs to be moved on.

 

[Zippycup]

You haven’t answered my question. What is he actially good at? Is he technically sound? Is he press resistant? Is he defensively aware? Is he a goal threat? Is he a metronomic passer? What actual, stand out attributes that Scott McTominay posseses that would be beneficial to the team with his inclusion?

What he is and isn't good at is subjective and anything I say you'll come back with a counter argument. It's a pointless debate that I'm not willing to get into.

All I will say is he has been picked to play on been in the squad for every single manager he's played under. For a player that offers "nothing" that's not a bad record. Is it?

 

[Zippycup]

The problem that I have with him is that he isn't able to be a competent cog in this United team.

The premise of a good squad player is that they can fill in and give you a 7 or 8/10 performance when needed. What holds them back from being starters is that they can't do it consistently.

The issue with Scott is that he fills in and is a detriment to the team. Always out of position, constantly giving the ball away and inviting pressure. That is not a squad player, that's a liability that needs to be moved on.

If a player was able to give you a 7 or 8 out of 10 performances then he wouldn't be a stand in player. He would be player of the season.

 

[MUFC OK]

Can't imagine ETH is happy with what he's seen from McT so far and imagine he will not feature for us even as back up from next season onwards, or am I giving Erik too much credit?

He has become a real problem for us. When he plays, we lose the midfield battle, everytime.

 

[saivet]

Players that played more 45 or more with less completed passes than McT (20) yesterday.

Ramsdale (16)
Ben White (13)
Nketiah (17)
Rashford (9)
Weghorst (14)

We have Arsenal's keeper, their striker and their RB who got hooked at HT.

We then have our two attackers that are highest up the pitch in Rashford and Weghorst.

Him not getting involved severely hinders us as a team. Frustrating to have a midfielder with so little involvement.

 

[MUFC OK]

The fact he's played 194 games for united is pretty astonishing - must be the worst player to play nearly 200 games. It says a lot about where we have been as a club since he started to get regular mins in 2017/18.

 

[Asger]

Oh give over.
It's posts like this why people's opinions on football aren't worth noting.

Or your just blind.

 

[Jericho]

The problem that I have with him is that he isn't able to be a competent cog in this United team.

The premise of a good squad player is that they can fill in and give you a 7 or 8/10 performance when needed. What holds them back from being starters is that they can't do it consistently.

The issue with Scott is that he fills in and is a detriment to the team. Always out of position, constantly giving the ball away and inviting pressure. That is not a squad player, that's a liability that needs to be moved on.

What? You're not describing a squad player, you're describing a first team regular. You're describing how everyone describes Denis Irwin, arguably the best fullback ever in the Premier League.

McTominay is a squad player and hasn't started in a long while, and we were up against the most in form team in the league. Were people expecting him to seamlessly replace Casemiro and boss the midfield? He's also not a holding midfielder.

 

[Walrus]

I said after the game he was awful, and he was. That said, if we are using McTominay it should be alongside Casemiro, not instead of him.

McTominay has never had the defensive discipline or positioning to play at DM. He is at his best in the attacking third and when he has the freedom to get up and down the pitch.

The bigger issue is that we are too reliant on Casemiro and have no adequate replacement. McTominay should be used as a backup for Eriksen, not Casemiro, but we simply lack alternatives.

 

[TsuWave]

Houdini

 

[SAFMUTD]

Then it's best for him to go elsewhere. Even Park who famously known only for his work rate could score, put in through passes, dribble and his man marking ability was really good. If Park was a work horse... I don't know what Scotty is. Below work horse?

I agree, I don't know what he is but he's clearly not the quality we need.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

What he is and isn't good at is subjective and anything I say you'll come back with a counter argument. It's a pointless debate that I'm not willing to get into.

All I will say is he has been picked to play on been in the squad for every single manager he's played under. For a player that offers "nothing" that's not a bad record. Is it?

Mourinho: sacked
Ole: sacked
Rangnick: not kept/terminated.
EtH: relegated to bench role in his first year.

Not the most convincing of argument.

 

[Marwood]

What? You're not describing a squad player, you're describing a first team regular. You're describing how everyone describes Denis Irwin, arguably the best fullback ever in the Premier League.

McTominay is a squad player and hasn't started in a long while, and we were up against the most in form team in the league. Were people expecting him to seamlessly replace Casemiro and boss the midfield? He's also not a holding midfielder.

There's a big middle ground between perfectly replacing Casemiro and performing how he did. He needs to be giving us something inbetween to be a competent squad player.

You can't make only 20 passes. You can't get on the ball as little as he does. Not at United.

I've always had a soft spot for him but its strange that he hasn't improved at all in that regard.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Mourinho: sacked
Ole: sacked
Rangnick: not kept/terminated.
EtH: relegated to bench role in his first year.

Not the most convincing of argument.

EtH: selected him over Casemiro for four games in a row

 

[jem]

He's a good fringe player. As I've said previously, we need players in the squad who are happy to step in when needs be. He isn't in our best starting 11. We can't have two Casemiros for one position

I don't think he's useless the way some are labelling ('we'd be better with 10 men', etc.) But I just don't think he's the requisite standard. I can understand holding on to him now given there is really no one else to back up Casemiro, but if we can get a good offer for him in the summer, particularly considering our financial issues, I think we'd be mad not to take it.

 

[Rozay]

I just don’t trust this club to sell him. Not now, not in the summer. There appears to either be a huge blind spot regarding Scott, or some sort of favouritism agenda - because he demonstrates on an almost weekly basis that he isn’t a good footballer and nobody at the club seems to have an issue with it for years. The list of superior academy talented midfielders who have been let go with little fuss is endless.

I don’t care about how few touches he has, or whether he ‘hides’. If he got the ball more, he’d demonstrate his inability to give it to a teammate more often. And that inability is the first and most obvious problem. How can a United midfielder not be able to pass the ball and be getting contract after contract here? If he is sold to any of the teams mentioned of late, he won’t last there either, and will drop again shortly.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

EtH: selected him over Casemiro for four games in a row

A chonky, half fit Casemiro who hadn’t gotten to train with the team, and even then, you can argue the 6-3 wouldn’t happen with that version of Case.

 

[Rozay]

He's a good fringe player. As I've said previously, we need players in the squad who are happy to step in when needs be. He isn't in our best starting 11. We can't have two Casemiros for one position

If McTominay is good enough to be in our squad, can you name 3 PL midfielders that you would say are not? This ‘squad player’ thing seems to be the easiest way to remove any requirement of standards for players someone likes, simply by saying ‘they are a squad player’. So what is that standard, and who is below it if not Scott? I genuinely need an idea of what is not good enough to play for United if not Scott.

 

[gza the genius]

He really only ever offers anything when we bring him in to an already functional midfield. He isn't good as backup because he can't replace any of our starters effectively, he's only useful as an extra body if we're seeing out a game or something.

We can't play Eriksen and Casemiro every single game but because McTominay isn't good enough to stand in for either of them we end up having to play them constantly.

 

[VanTastic_]

Gotta say that I'm pretty disapointed by McTominay. He started the season brilliantly (at least by his standards) and I thought he'll show more as he gets familiarised with EtH methods. But alas he is still the same limited player that we're all accustomed to, which wouldn't be a problem in itself, the bigger problem is he doesn't have the profile to deputise for any of our starting midfielders nor the energy and grit that Fred brings to the team. I would be very surprised if he is kept at the club beyond this summer, as he hasn't shown any sign of progress ever since he was introduced to the first team.

 

[Kostov]

He has 7.1 rating on WhoScored, only Martinez and Rashford have a better rating for yesterday...