[Chesterlestreet]

Condescending post aside, John O'Shea was a much better player than Mctominay.

Yeah, sure, maybe.

His reputation as a United player has something to do with the team(s) he played in, though.

That's my take on it, from a decidedly amateur point of view.

Of course, if you're someone capable of judging his objective level from a professional point of view (not the point of view of a random twat on an Internet forum), then by all means - consider me educated.

ETA Sorry, that was needlessly rude. Let's try this: How do you think O'Shea (based on his traits as a player) would have a) fared, generally and b) been perceived, generally as a United player coming through around 2014?

 

[Olecurls99]

Yeah, sure, maybe.

His reputation as a United player has something to do with the team(s) he played in, though.

That's my take on it, from a decidedly amateur point of view.

Of course, if you're someone capable of judging his objective level from a professional point of view (not the point of view of a random twat on an Internet forum), then by all means - consider me educated.

ETA Sorry, that was needlessly rude. Let's try this: How do you think O'Shea (based on his traits as a player) would have a) fared, generally and b) been perceived, generally as a United player coming through around 2014?

He would have been viewed much like Jonny Evans. A good PL defender.

You don't need to be a "professional" to know about football by the way.

 

[Idxomer]

McTom isn’t first choose (obviously) so he is not holding the team back in any way.

I never understand the hate squad players get from the supporters.

This is his first season as a squad player since 18/19 and he has been poor in this role for most of the season.

 

[Gazza]

Yeah, sure, maybe.

His reputation as a United player has something to do with the team(s) he played in, though.

That's my take on it, from a decidedly amateur point of view.

Of course, if you're someone capable of judging his objective level from a professional point of view (not the point of view of a random twat on an Internet forum), then by all means - consider me educated.

ETA Sorry, that was needlessly rude. Let's try this: How do you think O'Shea (based on his traits as a player) would have a) fared, generally and b) been perceived, generally as a United player coming through around 2014?

It should be noted that John OShea didn't walk into a settled and successful United team. He made his breakthrough at the beginning of the 2002/03 season, when our defence was still going through transition post-Stam, before Rio and Vidic settled things down, and while we had Barthez in goal. He came in and had Jimmy Hasselbaink in his pocket in one of his first games. In fact, O'Shea's rep was at its highest in that first season, when he looked a dominant CB and a marauding LB all in one. He showed his quality in that first season in a way McTominay never really has.

 

[Siorac]

Part of it has to do with the fact that some supporters just don't understand the concept itself (the concept of squad players).

I agree but probably not in the way you meant it.

I think it was @Rozay who kept asking for a while that if McTominay is considered a good enough squad player, is there any Premier League midfielder who isn't? Because some people always dismiss criticism of players like McTominay with no more than "he's a squad player", making it sound like that the only purpose of a squad player is to make sure that we can always field eleven human beings in all matches. That dismissal implies that squad players aren't expected to contribute in a meaningful way, their job is to just... be there.

We have squad players who are more than that. Fred is an excellent squad player. Lindelöf is an excellent squad player. So is Garnacho as an up and coming young player. Eriksen would be an excellent squad player in midfield at the current stage of his career but of course we'd need an upgrade first. These players can all make a very meaningful contribution but for one reason or another they cannot or should not be relied upon to be first choice in their respective positions - because they have specific weaknesses in their game (like Fred's lack of press resistance and his inconsistent passing or Lindelöf's lack of pace and physical meekness) or because they are too young or too old, or lack stamina or something.

McTominay, in my opinion, is the "one extra warm body" type squad player. He has no significant strengths or upsides, unlike good squad players.

 

[the gafferjs]

As Scott's agent, do you have any idea of the clubs interested in him or any idea of the amounts they are ready to pay for him?

Sadly I di not know...what I can tell you is that he is not worried by what people say online about him. He did say that he is not a fan of Samuel Luckhurst, apparently no one is a fan of him or his little pet Tyrone Marshall

 

[surf]

Wonder if he'll do a Phizza/Butt/Welbeck in the summer and leave to get more playing time at a smaller club? It seems that his career with us has already peaked and he will face increasing competition from now on.

 

[Still ill]

It seems almost comical now that the Caf bracketed himself and Fred together as almost the one entity for so long. While not a starter, Fred's substitute appearances under Ten Hag have been almost uniformly awesome, firing off goals, assists, interceptions like a drunken sailor on shore leave (just go with it), whole Scott's have been awkward, sloppy and entirely ineffective. That short spell he had as a mostly excellent starter before Casemiro began his glorious reign is increasingly looking like an Indian summer.

 

[PoTMS]

We desperately need his annual masterclass against Leeds.

 

[BorisManUtd]

Definitely need his annual masterclass against Leeds.

When is he back anyways?

 

[Red-17]

We desperately need his annual masterclass against Leeds.

He is out, sounds like for a while too based on reports from earlier this week.

 

[Olecurls99]

Sabitzer and Fred please.

Frebitzer

 

[Bobski]

You know, one of the things that made McT an interesting midfield project was just how mobile and nimble he was at his size, feel as if he has lost some of that and the rest of his game has not improved enough to allow it.

 

[izak]

Now with Casimiro out for a bit, we'll need this lump of a footballer back at his very best. Anyone knows the extent of his current injury?

 

[NoPace]

It seems almost comical now that the Caf bracketed himself and Fred together as almost the one entity for so long. While not a starter, Fred's substitute appearances under Ten Hag have been almost uniformly awesome, firing off goals, assists, interceptions like a drunken sailor on shore leave (just go with it), whole Scott's have been awkward, sloppy and entirely ineffective. That short spell he had as a mostly excellent starter before Casemiro began his glorious reign is increasingly looking like an Indian summer.

They were similar quality when we played Ole-ball and would be under say Sean Dyche, but only one of them could play for a top club or country without looking uncomfortable and it's not McTominay, it's the one who starts for Brazil often and moved for 47M and starred in a CL QF run with the underrated Srna and a bunch of Europa league quality Brazilians and Ukranians.

 

[NoPace]

You know, one of the things that made McT an interesting midfield project was just how mobile and nimble he was at his size, feel as if he has lost some of that and the rest of his game has not improved enough to allow it.

Yeah, it fooled Ten Hag into thinking he had potential so he didn't immediately turf him like Telles, sell to Newcastle or West Ham for 20M last summer and bring in I don't know say Doucoure who went to Palace or Marten De Roon or Gana Gueye or someone boring and competent who recognizes danger better.

 

[Bastian]

As I said in the red card thread, the next three games are his fight for a continued United career. Squad players are for these sorts of matches, where you expect to win, at the very least the two home matches.

 

[MadDogg]

They were similar quality when we played Ole-ball

They really weren't. Fred was always better at pretty much everything except scoring goals, winning headers and occasionally bursting forward with the ball, and that's all while he was being played more out of position than McTominay was. Obviously there were short periods here and there where Scott was better (as he was for the first month of this season), but when looking at any decent period of time Fred was always comfortably better. And now that he's being played in his more natural position he's showing that even the goal-scoring advantage that we thought Scott bought may not be a factor as Fred's getting a decent amount himself.

 

[NoPace]

They really weren't. Fred was always better at pretty much everything except scoring goals, winning headers and occasionally bursting forward with the ball, and that's all while he was being played more out of position than McTominay was. Obviously there were short periods here and there where Scott was better (as he was for the first month of this season), but when looking at any decent period of time Fred was always comfortably better. And now that he's being played in his more natural position he's showing that even the goal-scoring advantage that we thought Scott bought may not be a factor as Fred's getting a decent amount himself.

McTominay did go through a period where he wasn't as oblivious to danger or there was just not enough free space around him to get confused, as I recall. And winning headers when you're playing DM and sitting is important. He also seems a more confident passer in a double pivot than as a lone DM or as a #8 higher up in midfield, I think because he struggles with subtlety but strikes a ball very cleanly.

Considering Ten Hag didn't rate Lingard, Garner or Pereira, I bet he just now thinks we were teaching midfield wrong for a lot of post-Fergie years. I imagine he thinks Brownhill (who I think is supposed to be one of the better CMs in the Champo) and uh Ben Pearson are awful.

 

[the gafferjs]

McTominay did go through a period where he wasn't as oblivious to danger or there was just not enough free space around him to get confused, as I recall. And winning headers when you're playing DM and sitting is important. He also seems a more confident passer in a double pivot than as a lone DM or as a #8 higher up in midfield, I think because he struggles with subtlety but strikes a ball very cleanly.

Considering Ten Hag didn't rate Lingard, Garner or Pereira, I bet he just now thinks we were teaching midfield wrong for a lot of post-Fergie years. I imagine he thinks Brownhill (who I think is supposed to be one of the better CMs in the Champo) and uh Ben Pearson are awful.

I am one of the few people who seem to like McTominay, agree with a lot of your points. I also think he can offer something further up the park as well. Problem is now there is a generation of Online fans who want a certain type of player, they do not get or understand you need all types of Players...That said, I do feel ETH has marginalised him a little in recent months, hard for him or anyone in similar position to stake a claim when only playing every so often.

 

[NoPace]

I am one of the few people who seem to like McTominay, agree with a lot of your points. I also think he can offer something further up the park as well. Problem is now there is a generation of Online fans who want a certain type of player, they do not get or understand you need all types of Players...That said, I do feel ETH has marginalised him a little in recent months, hard for him or anyone in similar position to stake a claim when only playing every so often.

He frustrates me and I would have sold him long ago, not a fan at all, but he has played alright in stretches here. Nothing special, but solid mid-table level production, which I think has been his peak and then at his worst he's just like Ryan Yates or Josh Brownhill or another great Champo, meh relegation candidate box to box midfielder.

He's struggled under Ten Hag, we're playing a better brand of football and I don't think he's up to it.

 

[Diamond Chap]

All about opinions...I support every player that plays as they play for the Club. I maybe grew up in a different era perhaps? The modern fan would not have coped much in the 80s and 90s when it took a Squad to win things.

All things considered I doubt it will be much of an issue soon, all the the haters will be happy as he will be gone in the Summer and he will not start another game this season as for me I doubt that he is injured, something gone on behind the scenes.

He's injured

 

[Ayoba]

How can he be injured he's not even starting games?!

 

[Stadjer]

How can he be injured he's not even starting games?!

Is that a serious question?

 

[city-puma]

Is that a serious question?

Apparently he felt really frustrated. I understand and feel the same.

 

[Bondi77]

Hopefully he will be back soon to partner Sabitzer while Cas is out...we cannot have that headless chicken strutting his stuff again until Cas comes back to cover his mistakes.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Hopefully he will be back soon to partner Sabitzer while Cas is out...we cannot have that headless chicken strutting his stuff again until Cas comes back to cover his mistakes.

Yeah, because McT’s positional play has always been excellent, right?

 

[Bondi77]

Yeah, because McT’s positional play has always been excellent, right?

In comparison...yes.

 

[RopersReturn]

I think he’d be great at Everton, especially now Dyche is in charge.

 

[the gafferjs]

Anyone know anything about his Injury? Club are being very vague about it?

 

[BorisManUtd]

I hope he’s back soon. We need options with our schedule. You’d expect Casemiro/Fred/Sabitzer for Barca/Leicester/Newcastle games, then ideally McTominay is back for West Ham in Fa Cup.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

Anyone know anything about his Injury? Club are being very vague about it?

Muscle injury, will miss the Barca game at least.

 

[NoPace]

I think he’d be great at Everton, especially now Dyche is in charge.

McTominay, 12 months of Elanga on loan and 15M for Onana is the sort of predatory move an Italian team makes in Serie A that we should think about. McTominay-Gueye probably keeps them up, Elanga can split time with Maupay as the runner next to Calvert-Lewin and they'd get 15M to spend on either a solid starting RB or a backup #9 for when Calvert-Lewin is out. Though I could see Onana staying for one more year, happy to get 35 Prem starts as a #8 for Dyche and Everton not wanting to risk relegation.

 

[saivet]

Anyone know anything about his Injury? Club are being very vague about it?

Think that's just ETH for you, he just doesn't give away many details on injuries/illnesses.

 

[Bondi77]

The Leeds games would have suited him as we had no presence in the middle in either of the games.

 

[NinjaZombie]

It should be noted that John OShea didn't walk into a settled and successful United team. He made his breakthrough at the beginning of the 2002/03 season, when our defence was still going through transition post-Stam, before Rio and Vidic settled things down, and while we had Barthez in goal. He came in and had Jimmy Hasselbaink in his pocket in one of his first games. In fact, O'Shea's rep was at its highest in that first season, when he looked a dominant CB and a marauding LB all in one. He showed his quality in that first season in a way McTominay never really has.

Can't believe you didn't mention him nutmegging Luis Figo.

 

[Gazza]

Can't believe you didn't mention him nutmegging Luis Figo.

Ah true. It was many a poor soul who got nutmegged by JoS in those early days, Figo was def the most prominent of the bunch.

 

[Redlyn]

In comparison...yes.

So now we are back to mct > fred. It is true that absence makes the heart grow fonder.

 

[Garethw]

Do we know what’s actually up with this guy? I thought it was a virus/throat infection, but it must be a muscle related injury to be out this long.

 

[the gafferjs]

Is he even injured or has the Manager banished him?