It's sporting to be reckless & dangerous, so long as you don't bite? Some strange logic there
Suarez bites | "sorry for falling into him and biting him and that"
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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It's sporting to be reckless & dangerous, so long as you don't bite? Some strange logic there
I really don't think this is about causing injury or even an issue of dangerous play. His intent (if he has any) is to wind up an opponent. He has various techniques for it, this one is about as far from normal on field interaction as you are ever likely to see. Taking drugs doesn't endanger an opponent (normally) but it's banned, and that's not just a performance enhancement issue it relates to recreational drugs as well.
What the storm shows isn't a lack of a sense of proportion about different kinds of dangerous play, it's what people actually think brings the game of football into disrepute. No, it's not as bad as matchfixing or certain other crimes, but there's a reason why this is on TV and in the newspapers all over the world. It's extraordinary and it has happened in the most public arena, the showcase and cash cow for FIFA.
That's why it doesn't matter if Chiellini is injured, horrified or even angry. FIFA have to ban Suarez for being an embarrassment and, because it's not the first time, they can't just ban him for a few international matches - the matches won't be important enough to fit the crime.
What the storm shows isn't a lack of a sense of proportion about different kinds of dangerous play, it's what people actually think brings the game of football into disrepute. No, it's not as bad as matchfixing or certain other crimes, but there's a reason why this is on TV and in the newspapers all over the world. It's extraordinary and it has happened in the most public arena, the showcase and cash cow for FIFA.
That's why it doesn't matter if Chiellini is injured, horrified or even angry. FIFA have to ban Suarez for being an embarrassment and, because it's not the first time, they can't just ban him for a few international matches - the matches won't be important enough to fit the crime.
Whilst I would love this to be true, as it was in my youth, I'm afraid this has long been consigned to the annals of footballing history.
Like it or not, sliding tackles, elbows, etc. are treated as being 'part of the game'. If you break someone's leg through an overzealous tackle, or someone's nose through flailing arms then you're likely to get sent off and a moderate ban. The rules cover this. Spitting, biting and punching are outside of the rules of the game and so are treated differently and are looked upon more harshly (and rightly so, in my opinion). In previous cases I think Suarez has been treated fairly; while his bans have been reasonably long, he's been given the chance to change his behaviour and come back to the game. With this latest incident on the most public of stages, he's shown that he hasn't changed and possibly that he can't. It's time for the penalty for his actions to be increased, and I would fully support a lengthy ban from all forms of football with the mooted suspended lifetime ban.As I mentioned before, a Red Card and a 3 match ban for breaking someone's leg or otherwise injuring them so that they are either out of action for an extended period or it ends their careers and most people tend to mildly condemn it and then move quickly on. The British in particular find spitting & biting more reprehensible than other more violent forms of on-pitch thuggery that results in actual debilitating injuries. I'm assuming Suarez does not have HIV or Rabies here
[I actually think part of the reason why some people don't see why this is a big deal is that they see biting as something that can be brushed off. Imagine if instead of biting his opponent, he'd punched him in the face (or stomach, or ribs, or whatever). Then he did it again. And again.]
I thought the whole incident was absurd. The way they both fell down rolling around was cringeworthy. There needs to be video replays for the refs, players shouldnt be made to dive, play act to get the referees attention.
Too many are confusing outcome with intent. Where a leg breaking tackle is worse than a bite because of the outcome.
There has been the little word too.
It's not sporting, but you argued like biting should somehow be punished to an lesser extent because it won't injure someone. Well it won't, but sportsmanship should also be an aspect of the game.
'Most Liverpool fans love him as a player but he’s continually dragged the club’s name through the mud,' Fowler told talkSPORT's Alan Brazil Sports Breakfast show.
'It’s not right, especially after how they helped him last time. They tried to rehabilitate him. I wouldn’t be surprised if Suarez left now.
'He’s a different person on the pitch. I’m flummoxed, he’s dragged the good name of Liverpool through the mud again, and it’s not right.
'You can’t defend him. I love him as a player but you cannot condone what he’s done.'
'It’s not right, especially after how they helped him last time. They tried to rehabilitate him. I wouldn’t be surprised if Suarez left now.
'He’s a different person on the pitch. I’m flummoxed, he’s dragged the good name of Liverpool through the mud again, and it’s not right.
'You can’t defend him. I love him as a player but you cannot condone what he’s done.'
True, but it is a poor comparison.
Suarez savagely bit another human with the world watching. What he's already done is fecking insane, never mind what he could potentially do. There has to be exceptions made IMO. If a dog does that, he's put down, I don't see what difference it makes if it was during a game of football.
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feck me. What kind of human do you have to be for even Robbie Fowler to think that you are no good.
Cue the scouse backlash against Fowler
German newspaper: "Whip him with the corner flag!"
The maximum FIFA can ban him for under their rules is two years.
Chiellini claimed Suarez bit him on the left shoulder, but Suarez said the defender "bumped" into him.
Even when caught on camera he still cant face up to his crimes.
Even when caught on camera he still cant face up to his crimes.
Looks familiar?
You know what is the most funny thing in these photos? They aren't from yesterday, they are photos from the Confederation Cup last year. It looks that he was preparing to eat Chiellini for a year.
I'm imagining that with a David Attenbrough narration.
"And so, on the Amazonian plains, the hunter stalks his prey..."
Most sensible post in this thread. Biting isnt as dangerous as two footed tackles and elbows. But punishment is not given because of (the potential of) physical injury caused alone. If FIFA are lenient, it gives the message that this sort of behavior is tolerated in football, and as a result public opinion of the sport will suffer. I think a global football ban for 6 months or so will be fair.
He's a delusional lunatic, yet there's people questioning the notion that he'd do anything worse than bite somebody.
You said to punish intent not outcome so someone even attempting to bite someone is on the same punishment playing field as someone who attempts to break someone's leg? How about if they don't succeed in the leg break? Should it be handled differently were the leg to break? Or should we punish dirty players who either attempt or succeed in their act and punish accordingly based on severity of outcome?
Outcome does matter and no one is debating how abhorrent biting is but if you're going to ban then severity of danger has to factor into it
Let the petitions for un-Scouseing Fowler begin!
Maybe in some other game Suarez will bite someone's ear off, would that be dangerous enough?
I wouldn't even compare them. That's a professional foul. He didn't cheat anyone. I'd be ecstatic and admire a player from my team if he'd have the quickness of thought to do the same. He was sent off, banned from next game, and Ghana were awarded a penalty, which is 80% of the times a goal. Pretty normal to me. Would you blame a United defender for grabbing a guy running alone towards goal at the end of a match that you need to win?
If that's cheating, any intentional foul is.
I love the what if game
Yeah that is the one incident of Suarez that has been overblown.
Global ban from football is reserved for doping, match fixing or assaulting refs. He will get suspended for a few international games or FIFA will not be able to do anything so prepare yourself for that so you don't blow up.
He waited a year before he got his bite. So its not a nutter, but knew what he did.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...fender-during-the-2014-world-cup-9561799.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...fender-during-the-2014-world-cup-9561799.html
Again, where have I said they should be punished on the same scale? This isn't in any way complex. The two offences are entirely separate. Stop trying to view them as being part of the same problem, or on the same scale.
As for the bolded part, no, that's exactly what I said we shouldn't do. If a tackle is so reckless that it might break someone's leg they should be punished severely. It shouldn't be treated any different to a tackle that break's someone's leg. Because the intent (or recklessness) is the same.
You clearly haven't been reading the RAWK forums.
Yes, severity should factor into it, but so do social norms. The punishment within the sport should match public opinion for the act if it was done outside the context of the sport. Intent to injure/racial abuse/spitting at/biting -all these are things would be socially unacceptable and would draw widespread public outrage condemnation if witnessed anywhere and so they should be punished equally severely in football. Repeat offences for the same thing should be punished even more severely.
We will soon see. This is a first. Never has a player bit someone in a World Cup, Fifa's baby, their cash cow, which gets viewed by billions of people around the world. On top of that he has previous for biting & judging by his comments last night, isn't sorry for his actions. He's asking for it imo.
I really think it will be a severe punishment which will affect Liverpool as well as Uruguay.
A danish ref estimates it will be around six international games.
Shocking if that is the case.
The reactions of his team-mates and manager to the bite might in some way explain why Suarez keeps doing shit like this. Everyone is rallying around him and calling him the victim. Even the press from his home-country have gone easy on him, and are instead trying to apportion blame on the English press. I think it says a lot about their society and the role football plays that they won't condemn such behaviour, and the reason? To keep their World Cup chances alive.
If you read the ESPN article about the Suarez head-butt in a youth game, the lengths his coaches etc.. went to to try and cover it up were incredible, just to avoid a suspension for Suarez in a crucial game the following week. There was no inquest as to why a 16 year-old kid might head-butt a referee or possible punishment to try to prevent Luis repeating this at a later, more important, moment in his career.
It appears as though he's had this cushion his whole life, with people around him trying to convince him that his actions are not bad, or even worthy or reproach. In that respect Liverpool was the perfect fit for him, as their fans have continued this life-long crusade to convince the world that Luis isn't a bad guy, but a mis-understood genius. It's absolute bollocks. He's just a cnut.
If you read the ESPN article about the Suarez head-butt in a youth game, the lengths his coaches etc.. went to to try and cover it up were incredible, just to avoid a suspension for Suarez in a crucial game the following week. There was no inquest as to why a 16 year-old kid might head-butt a referee or possible punishment to try to prevent Luis repeating this at a later, more important, moment in his career.
It appears as though he's had this cushion his whole life, with people around him trying to convince him that his actions are not bad, or even worthy or reproach. In that respect Liverpool was the perfect fit for him, as their fans have continued this life-long crusade to convince the world that Luis isn't a bad guy, but a mis-understood genius. It's absolute bollocks. He's just a cnut.
That would be a joke if true.
After the Ivanovic incident I felt that 8 games was probably a justified punishment. Now he's repeated the crime the punishment should be at least doubled/tripled, possibly more IMO. It should be for all games, not just international too.
The reaction of Liverpool and Uruguay to this as well as his other problems is hilarious.
What is it about football that makes fans and players defend the indefensible. It seems that as long as you can kick a football really well and do well for your team your fans and teammates will support you no matter what you do.
What is it about football that makes fans and players defend the indefensible. It seems that as long as you can kick a football really well and do well for your team your fans and teammates will support you no matter what you do.
What the feck is wrong with him? An absolutely fantastic player but he acts like a rabid lunatic. As a youngster he was told to fight his way out of trouble but he thought he was told to bite his way out of trouble
So, one third/fourth (depending on how much Uruguay advances on wold cup) of the next world Cup qualifications. If they don't count friendly games than this is around the equivalent of a year in international stage. I said yesterday in RAWK that I am expecting 5-10 international games, which I think might be ok. Not that I would complain if he gets more games, obviously.