Step forth Sir Mejbri. I do agree though. But out of all our players, Mejbri is the one closest in ability to that type of player.
The Casemiro/Mount/Bruno midfield
- Thread starter Malone_Post
- Start date
Step forth Sir Mejbri. I do agree though. But out of all our players, Mejbri is the one closest in ability to that type of player.
The real problem is that we are sacrificing a defensive midfielder to play three up front when we don't actually have a centre forward who makes it worth the effort. Hopefully the new guy will fix that. Meanwhile Martinez will have to step up a lot more as will our fancy new sweeper/keeper.
That's a lot of things to sort out. Gonna be a long season. City, Newcastle and Arsenal will batter us on today's performance.
That's a lot of things to sort out. Gonna be a long season. City, Newcastle and Arsenal will batter us on today's performance.
The main problem IMO is that we look realy soft. We’re a team of energetic weaklings and you can only get away with that if your midfield has an incredibly high pass accuracy or game reading skills, which at the moment accounts for about 1.5 of our 4 options on a good day. Otherwise you need to be physically robust, and that accounts for about 0.5, and that’s all basically Casemiro.
Yep. One need only look at the game against Getafe the other day. It was a battlefield (seriously..watch the highlights...ho-lee-shit) to appreciate what a player like that does. He keeps that midfield together like a battle commander. A beacon of calmth in a violent ocean.
I am so depressed. Genuinely so so down. My worst fears have been realized. If fecking wolves can do this at our home....I realize I'm an armchair idiot fan and ETH is a great manager but this midfield is a disaster as predicted by everyone. Sigh.
We were terrible, but it's just 1 game. We lost our opening games last season and people thought top 4 was far out of reach.
We won't play this bad consistently. If we do, then we can worry.
I mean just look at our midfield on paper and compare it to the clubs we're competing with. So poor. We should have signed Amrabat and Lavia (who would have cost less than Mount, sigh).
In theory it would work (City and Arse was playing with this setup) but I still think we need more gametime together from them to make it better. Our attacker bar Antony was horrible today. Garnacho keep running into Semedo like a wall and Rashford was invisible. Cant blame the midfielders if the attackers decide to take a day off
This. Didnt we hammer swansea or derby or whoever 4-1 during Moyes EPL debut ? Goes downhill from there for sure. Would be worried if by September we still play like this
It's just a really dumb idea that needs to die a death very quickly, but probably wont because Ten Hag has prioritised signing Mount presumably just to implement it.
I was surprised just how bad Mount was, but then a lot of it was made to look worse because there was no midfield behind him...and Ten Hag seems to think he played well. He offered literally nothing in an attacking or ball winning sense, either lost or pulled out of every single challenge he went for, constantly let Wolves players run off him and kept sacrificing his position to chase the ball around like a kid in the playground. I thought he was a complete disaster, but then he played the same way he does for England and was just put in a role that made it into a massive problem.
Its destroying my faith in Ten Hag tbh because its just such a clearly terrible idea and the performance tonight was so obvious. He's relying on Mount and Fernandes to dictate our play and break up opposition attacks before they start, when both play too advanced to do that and neither are aggressive and/or positionally disciplined enough to do it anyway. Fernandes is also too direct to be used in any sort of controlling role and Mount I've never seen show anything to suggest he has the quality to do it. He can play a nice flick or return ball around the box but he isn't going to get on the turn and start dictating and forcing the opposition to back off him. Casemiro is the only one of the three who can control a game in possession and he can't do it when he's got to cover the midfield ground of 3 players on his own and constantly try to plug gaps.
This is why Eriksen was so important last season, because we needed the extra midfielder who could get on the turn and dictate a game without sacrificing their position. Now we've gone 2 steps backwards. People saying its only one game but these problems aren't going to magically go away or be a one off, because you can't expect players to just change what they are good at to suit a manager's crazy ideas.
I was surprised just how bad Mount was, but then a lot of it was made to look worse because there was no midfield behind him...and Ten Hag seems to think he played well. He offered literally nothing in an attacking or ball winning sense, either lost or pulled out of every single challenge he went for, constantly let Wolves players run off him and kept sacrificing his position to chase the ball around like a kid in the playground. I thought he was a complete disaster, but then he played the same way he does for England and was just put in a role that made it into a massive problem.
Its destroying my faith in Ten Hag tbh because its just such a clearly terrible idea and the performance tonight was so obvious. He's relying on Mount and Fernandes to dictate our play and break up opposition attacks before they start, when both play too advanced to do that and neither are aggressive and/or positionally disciplined enough to do it anyway. Fernandes is also too direct to be used in any sort of controlling role and Mount I've never seen show anything to suggest he has the quality to do it. He can play a nice flick or return ball around the box but he isn't going to get on the turn and start dictating and forcing the opposition to back off him. Casemiro is the only one of the three who can control a game in possession and he can't do it when he's got to cover the midfield ground of 3 players on his own and constantly try to plug gaps.
This is why Eriksen was so important last season, because we needed the extra midfielder who could get on the turn and dictate a game without sacrificing their position. Now we've gone 2 steps backwards. People saying its only one game but these problems aren't going to magically go away or be a one off, because you can't expect players to just change what they are good at to suit a manager's crazy ideas.
Casemiro/Caicedo/Bruno is a fecking rockstar midfield yet we tried the hipster way without the right players to do it. Frustrating decisions
Pretty much. Bruno is at his best when he's allowed to mainly focus on pressing and creating from behind the forwards. Any other position he falters because he's too chaotic and not good enough on the ball, but stick him in front of a pivot and he'll create chances for days. Case and a more mobile shuttling midfielder besides him and we'd be set in the midfield against an opposition in the world.
It's plain as day that we need an enforcer in the midfield. Think the Everton fella can do a job, along with Mainoo. We need reinforcements and hopefully after today's incredibly lucky result EtH will have someone's ear and get at least one midfielder in.
Maintain tonight was on two problems, and Mount wasn't them:
1. Casemiro refusing to play as the deepest, most-defensively minded midfielder (at least until his legs went in the 75th minute or so)
2. Bruno having his worst match for us by a country mile
For this type of midfield to work, Casemiro has to basically stay in his own half, and Bruno/Mount have to get closer to him. The coaching is all off imo, with Casemiro running beyond even Mount, Mount not then replacing him and Bruno being the agent of chaos that he is.
EtH needs to sort it out asap. I can see trying this, but it failed against Wolves with a manager who has been there about 1 minute.
1. Casemiro refusing to play as the deepest, most-defensively minded midfielder (at least until his legs went in the 75th minute or so)
2. Bruno having his worst match for us by a country mile
For this type of midfield to work, Casemiro has to basically stay in his own half, and Bruno/Mount have to get closer to him. The coaching is all off imo, with Casemiro running beyond even Mount, Mount not then replacing him and Bruno being the agent of chaos that he is.
EtH needs to sort it out asap. I can see trying this, but it failed against Wolves with a manager who has been there about 1 minute.
Basically a Frenkie DeJong-shaped hole in this team.
Yes they re dumb enough, we were ambling around off the ball like they had lead in their boots, movement was virtually non existent
Add to that fact the club now has an unbalanced midfield. The issues of last season still exist and all that's happened is United have closed the door to finding a solution because the resources have been exhausted without actually strengthening the team.
Those saying it was a 9/10 window must have more faith in Murtough and co than common sense. How is it that despite completely revamping the scouting infrastructure there's next to no development prior. On paper the squad is provisionally weaker than last season with the exception of the goalkeeper.
The money or lack of is also not an excuse we've seen Newcastle essentially revamp their midfield for under 100M in Tonali and Guimares previously. These departments that have gone through significant changes are firing up blanks.
I am not going to overreact after 1 game, but that was my number one take away after that performance today, it was really bad. Mount actually seemed more physical than most today. We can't sell McTominay unless we bring in 2 middies.
Hang in there, mate. Let's see how turn up vs Spurs. It was a sad game for sure.
We need Amrabat/Onana before Spurs
Hopefully you are right. Because I really think ETH is a brilliant manager. But now I worry he has screwed this up with this midfield. I never worried last season when we lost the first 2 games because he was just getting started and he wasn't given the tools yet.
But this is different. He chose to go with Mount for this midfield. None of it makes sense to me. Maybe if we get Amrabat and play him instead of Mount and we steady it for a while.
Rashford’s attempt at #9 hold up play was well short of the required standard. It starts from the front and Rashford was nowhere near to being effective today, and gave up when he lost the ball. Hopefully Hojland is a revelation because Rashford was a ghost.
Agree with most of it. I still think ETH is a great manager but I'm worried for his tenure now.
I am also not surprised how bad Mount was. That's how he's been this preseason. What happened today has been happening all preseason.
All we needed to do was get an Eriksen with legs and here we are without a midfield. Sigh.
Thanks. I'm dreading Spurs. But it is what it is.
Onana's an okay destroyer, but he'll just lose the ball immediately after gaining possession b/c he can't pass. And Ambrabat doesn't have the legs or physicality to plug all the holes we left in midfield tonight.
Every other team that does this, brings someone right up alongside the DM, either a fullback or CB. Having Casimero do it solo is suicide.
Oh no what a surprise, we had a massive gaping hole in the middle of the field playing two number 10's. And some people on here couldn't see this coming. 
Oh no what a surprise, we had a massive gaping hole in the middle of the field playing two number 10's. And some people on here couldn't see this coming.
What? I thought everybody saw it coming.
Good post, Clams.
So who should we bring in then as clearly you aren't happy with either of those two
As with every transfer, there were a lot of posters who had their blinders on and viciously attacked anybody who expressed doubts.
If he does that, then he should have a kitchen sink of criticism thrown at him.
He planned on going with 2 #8s in front of a 6. Make it work.
I'd rather see Amrabat take Casemiro's place vs him dropping Mount entirely and ditching this template/system that most top teams are playing.
I'm sure we'll play better.
No one who's available for less than £120m, unfortunately.
You must have someone in mind surely?
Still way too early to judge. But it’s a worrying start.
Check out the mount thread then.
What would Mainoo have offered in todays lineup? I think ETH saw him having a starring role this season, so losing one of the cogs right before the start of the season has thwarted his plans.
I think there were problems all over the pitch. Martinez having to come off, Garnacho getting rekt by Semedo, Rashford phasing in and out of existence, Bruno/Eriksen giving the ball away, Casemiro looking leggy and steaming up the pitch , no fullback inversions, and Onana’s vaunted ability to launch attacks nowhere to be found.
Maybe the new Wilves manager is a genius and figured out how to ram his photon torpedo into the exhaust port. His plan worked.
I think there were problems all over the pitch. Martinez having to come off, Garnacho getting rekt by Semedo, Rashford phasing in and out of existence, Bruno/Eriksen giving the ball away, Casemiro looking leggy and steaming up the pitch , no fullback inversions, and Onana’s vaunted ability to launch attacks nowhere to be found.
Maybe the new Wilves manager is a genius and figured out how to ram his photon torpedo into the exhaust port. His plan worked.
Sweet Jesus. Not another false dawn.
Don't disagree on criticism if he abandons his plan. But there is a fine line between sticking up for your beliefs/principles, and being obstinate and not changing what's not working. One of ETH great qualities imo is his pragmatism. So I wouldn't be surprised if he changes things. Having said that I didnt think we were ready to play with two no.8s. I don't think we have the pressing for it, nor do we have the defense for it.
Hopefully you are right about we'll play better.
We need a playmaker. Feels like I’ve been saying for a decade but no manager seems to agree. Someone who can drop in, take the ball off Martinez and Casmeiro and start running the play. It doesn’t have to be a Scholes or Pirlo level all time great but we need someone who performs that role.