It's not really the English part, more the blonde. Blonde hair blue eyed girls are rare in Portugal/Spain/Greece etc. As horrible as it sounds, they're "valuable".
Television The Disappearance of Madeleine Mccann Netflix Documentary
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I think the police investigation in the whole issue was horribly inept. Too much focus on that dog picking up a scent in the rental car. They got that car 25 days after she went missing, they were under 24/7 surveillance by reporters. Even if they wanted to move a body there was too much press intrusion for them to do anything without being pictured. That head investigator was a piece of work, him coming out with a book was pretty low. I think the only thing they are guilty of is negligence.
It's a horrible thing to think about but if she was abducted by one of those paedophile/child trafficking networks, I'd imagine to the sort of scumbags who pay for that sort of thing, the fact that she is Madeleine McCann and the whole story would make her very, very valuable indeed.
It's hard to stomach some of the sick shit that goes on in this world. I thought that Jim Gamble guy from Scotland Yard came across very well in the documentary - you could see that he was totally haunted by some of the stuff he had worked on and hell bent on trying to make a difference.
It's hard to stomach some of the sick shit that goes on in this world. I thought that Jim Gamble guy from Scotland Yard came across very well in the documentary - you could see that he was totally haunted by some of the stuff he had worked on and hell bent on trying to make a difference.
Is that the Goncalo Amaral guy? Yeah, he was previously convicted of perjury after he falsified documents in another missing child case where officers were accused of torturing a suspect. "Piece of work" seems a fair description.
One thing that's just suddenly occured to me reading your car theory post (seems the opinion of police and everyone else is abductor walked on foot for a fair bit)....was their no CCTV in the area? Either the hotel's or from other buildings or traffic maintenance as I assume it is a fairly busy road.
I'm guessing there wasn't or it simply wasn't working/too grainy as surely that could've provided a lead on the night.
In the documentary they said there wasn't much cctv in Portugal at the time.
2007, not 1987. Also a major tourist hotspot.
Reminds me of all the conspiracies rumours about the Diana crash. Don't believe any of that but I do remember reading all CCTV on that road leading up to the tunnel were either switched off or not working. That's Paris on a Saturday night.
They mentioned early on that there wasn't much cctv in the area (or country in general) except at petrol stations, who recorded over footage often.
The UK has the most CCTV in the world I believe. London has a mind boggling amount of cameras about.
2007, not 1987. Also a major tourist hotspot.
Reminds me of all the conspiracies rumours about the Diana crash. Don't believe any of that but I do remember reading all CCTV on that road leading up to the tunnel were either switched off or not working. That's Paris on a Saturday night.
It was a fairly remote town too, outside of private residences having set up some it probably still has no cctv.
Probably distorted my opinion of things (or watching too much of Hunted). Would've thought the tourists areas would have decent amount anyway.
that's fecked up
I don't believe they were involved. You can question their parenting skills all you want but no one deserves that shit.
I don't know if the child is still alive but after the Fritzel case, and then the other one that followed quickly after it where the 18 year old escaped, nothing would surprise me.
I don't know if the child is still alive but after the Fritzel case, and then the other one that followed quickly after it where the 18 year old escaped, nothing would surprise me.
I was in Praia da Rocha in June 2007 a month after she went missing in Praia Da Luz which is not far from there. There wasn't much CCTV back there even then. Bars on the strip may have had cameras inside, but in the old towns, round the hotels ,beaches and on the rural roads and motorway from Faro airport there weren't really any cameras.
2007, not 1987. Also a major tourist hotspot.
Reminds me of all the conspiracies rumours about the Diana crash. Don't believe any of that but I do remember reading all CCTV on that road leading up to the tunnel were either switched off or not working. That's Paris on a Saturday night.
Yeah and it seems not much in the way of road blocks/checks when leaving the country. Not straight away at least. So it's possible they escaped by car without much bother...
Edit: I seem to remember the documentary showing the following day how a blacked out van just drove straight through the check point into Spain. Obviously it's not saying she was in that particular van but it highlighted how easy it was to get out of the country hours and hours after she was reported missing.
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yup that's the guy. Didn't seem interested at all, compare his lack of enthusiasm with the private Spanish investigator the family hired for a while, he seemed very capable.
Finished this last night, what I can take away from this is that the parents were incredibly neglectful. The rota system the group of parents had for checking in on the kids was flawed from the start - they were checking for if the kids were crying or restless, not if the kids were safe. One of the parents didn't even fully go into the room when it was their time to check, despite hearing noises.
Plus the group's behaviour followed a pattern which was predictable, especially if you have criminal intent - it seemed as though multiple people in the area knew that they left their kids unattended at night. Plus they didn't lock any doors? Even if they felt safe in the area, the kids themselves could get up and wander around.
I doubt we're going to find out what really happened, but I don't believe that she's still alive and I don't believe the parents had anything to do with her disappearance either.
However, if she does turn up found in the future like that Fritzl girl, I wouldn't be surprised either.
Plus the group's behaviour followed a pattern which was predictable, especially if you have criminal intent - it seemed as though multiple people in the area knew that they left their kids unattended at night. Plus they didn't lock any doors? Even if they felt safe in the area, the kids themselves could get up and wander around.
I doubt we're going to find out what really happened, but I don't believe that she's still alive and I don't believe the parents had anything to do with her disappearance either.
However, if she does turn up found in the future like that Fritzl girl, I wouldn't be surprised either.
Key point this. Corner apartment by the side of the road, left unlocked and a checking rota pretty easy to be familiar with by this stage of the holiday (day 6?). As straightforward a kidnap as you could get
I had a thought on this yesterday which, to me, kind of ties up all the loose ends as a theory. Obviously I may be completely wrong or this could have already been discredited, but hear me out.
Basically, the last check on the kids prior to Kate finding them was done by another member of the Tapas group. From the documentary, they mentioned that Gerry was going to check until this other person volunteered (can't remember his name).
So what if he is involved in something shady and he goes back to the apartment and gives Maddie to the eventual kidnapper? It sounds too simple and may have already been looked at, but it's just a theory. Here's why it adds up:
1) I believe this person changed their story about what they witnessed when they went back to the room to check. Perhaps they were genuine, but they claimed not to have even bothered going into the room, then also claimed they noticed more light entering the room and the door was ajar (this serves to lead the police on a different path). Yet they still didn't bother entering the room.
2) Again, may have been harmless, but they insisted they go check when Gerry, I believe, was going to go and check.
3) This explains why nobody else in the group is aware of this and their stories corroborate - because it was only the one person involved and they believe that this person was simply checking the room, as they had all been doing already.
4) Often in these cases, the last person to have seen them alive or somebody close to the victim is involved. This ticks both boxes in a way, despite him claiming to have not checked on the kids, though we've all been looking at the parents for these very same reasons.
5) If you don't believe that the parents were involved then we know that she was kidnapped. The question is why was she kidnapped? People don't like to hear about trafficking etc, but there is a reason. If you accept that these are possibilities, then perhaps this person is involved in these types of organisations in some way. I've seen a lot of things written about the McCann's and their friends which don't paint them in a good light, but perhaps this individual actually is involved with something.
6) If she was kidnapped, it had to be somebody that knew that Maddie would be unsupervised. Perhaps it wasn't a case of a kidnapper watching them for days, but somebody on the inside that knew they would be undisturbed if they were the person to go check the kids.
7) Theories suggest the Tapas group were friends with Clement Freud. Perhaps he was involved in this, or the Podesta brothers. Though that may be a stretch.
tl,dr The person that voluntarily checked the kids (but apparently didn't enter the room despite noticing odd things), before Kate discovered her missing, may have been the person to hand over Maddie to somebody else. No break in, no fingerprints, no DNA. If this was the case, Maddie would have been gone at least 20 minutes before Kate check and a long time prior to police arriving. Therefore, they could have made some distance by the time the alarm was raised.
Basically, the last check on the kids prior to Kate finding them was done by another member of the Tapas group. From the documentary, they mentioned that Gerry was going to check until this other person volunteered (can't remember his name).
So what if he is involved in something shady and he goes back to the apartment and gives Maddie to the eventual kidnapper? It sounds too simple and may have already been looked at, but it's just a theory. Here's why it adds up:
1) I believe this person changed their story about what they witnessed when they went back to the room to check. Perhaps they were genuine, but they claimed not to have even bothered going into the room, then also claimed they noticed more light entering the room and the door was ajar (this serves to lead the police on a different path). Yet they still didn't bother entering the room.
2) Again, may have been harmless, but they insisted they go check when Gerry, I believe, was going to go and check.
3) This explains why nobody else in the group is aware of this and their stories corroborate - because it was only the one person involved and they believe that this person was simply checking the room, as they had all been doing already.
4) Often in these cases, the last person to have seen them alive or somebody close to the victim is involved. This ticks both boxes in a way, despite him claiming to have not checked on the kids, though we've all been looking at the parents for these very same reasons.
5) If you don't believe that the parents were involved then we know that she was kidnapped. The question is why was she kidnapped? People don't like to hear about trafficking etc, but there is a reason. If you accept that these are possibilities, then perhaps this person is involved in these types of organisations in some way. I've seen a lot of things written about the McCann's and their friends which don't paint them in a good light, but perhaps this individual actually is involved with something.
6) If she was kidnapped, it had to be somebody that knew that Maddie would be unsupervised. Perhaps it wasn't a case of a kidnapper watching them for days, but somebody on the inside that knew they would be undisturbed if they were the person to go check the kids.
7) Theories suggest the Tapas group were friends with Clement Freud. Perhaps he was involved in this, or the Podesta brothers. Though that may be a stretch.
tl,dr The person that voluntarily checked the kids (but apparently didn't enter the room despite noticing odd things), before Kate discovered her missing, may have been the person to hand over Maddie to somebody else. No break in, no fingerprints, no DNA. If this was the case, Maddie would have been gone at least 20 minutes before Kate check and a long time prior to police arriving. Therefore, they could have made some distance by the time the alarm was raised.
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Just finished this tonight. Definitely a mixed bag in terms of the theories you could take away but in the end, you just hope something is found in the future.
Last thoughts were Jim Gamble comes across as an impressive human being with the work he talks about.
Last thoughts were Jim Gamble comes across as an impressive human being with the work he talks about.
My 2 cents is that he didn't have anything to do with it.
Gerry and Kate were hoping that he would have raised the alarm that Maddie was missing but instead he comes back saying everything is ok.
They obviously know that not to be true which results in Kate checking next and raising the alarm. Their agreed plan has now changed which results in Kate giving the 'they've abducted/taken her' spiel.....
Just watched episode two, something isn’t right at all with that 11.30pm phone call to the russian guy. They both conviniently forgot about the 11.30pm call, i mean that’s an extraordinary late hour to make a phone call. Them two being involved together would seem unlikely to me though, but they both would have local knowledge of areas to bury the girl that others may not.
That one bit about them saying they could all see the apartment from the tapas bar, which wasn't the case. That was pretty strange.
Finished it last night and found the last 2 episdoes quite disturbing. The deep web and peado gangs... Jim Gamble's story & emotional reaction about coming down the escalators and hearing that little girl had been rescued was very moving.
I'm even more convinced now that it was a gang involved after finding out there had been strange men going around the area asking people with young kids about an orphanage, that never existed. Plus the woman who reported a man approached her 3 year old, days before, and the fact the tapas bar basically made it public knowledge that the McCann's were at the table every night from 8pm onwards.
I'm even more convinced now that it was a gang involved after finding out there had been strange men going around the area asking people with young kids about an orphanage, that never existed. Plus the woman who reported a man approached her 3 year old, days before, and the fact the tapas bar basically made it public knowledge that the McCann's were at the table every night from 8pm onwards.
You really buying that? I was there on holiday the same time and there were no reports of 'strange men' talking to young kids. These stories are laughable!
I'm pretty sure it was Gerry who checked on the family, 99% certain. In the doc they stated that Gerry went up and found it odd that the door was open more than he had left it. Timeline here:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/apr/11/madeleinemccann
Kate went up next and states the window was open and the door slammed shut from a gust of wind. Went to check again and noticed that she was gone, off she went running to the tapas 7 and "They've taken maddie" she says to the whole group. Quite a specific statement to make.
Facts are this, there was never any finger prints found on the outside of the doors or windows, only 1 print on the inside of the window which suggests it being opened from the inside. A brunette male was seen carrying a blonde child away from their apartment.
Occam's razor - The family were out all day, they collected maddie from the play group / creche and went back to their apartment in 5A and rested for an hour or 2. In that hour it is believed they gave her Calpol, I personally believe she took an allergic reaction to this and and it killed Maddie. They probably realized it in the process of getting ready to go to dinner and you've only the 2 parents, Kate & Gerry going to check on her. Gerry goes up, takes Maddie and hides her somewhere, where I don't know and obviously it was a very very good hiding spot! Kate goes up and raises the alarm to the rest of the group.
At a later date Gerry uses the new rental car which the cadaver / blood dogs pick up on and he most likely has buried her in a local reservoir / lake. I don't believe the bit about the letter but its entirely possible that Gerry managed to sneak out at one point before the media really started to follow their every move.
Whilst it would be difficult to move the body a 2nd time, nothing is impossible and in the early hours of a morning he could well of sneaked out and buried her body.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/madeleine-mccann-cops-ignored-tip-off-4688952
That's not really Occam's razor though is it. Occam's razor is that someone took her rather than that convoluted story.
Also if you have a child die from an allergic reaction to Calpol is your first instinct to think "oh I better get rid of the body?" Occam's razor indeed.
It is when you consider what Pocco said, the vast majority of missing person / murder cases the perpetrator tends to be someone close to the victim. A family member or close friend.
It's absolutely no stretch of the imagination to think Kate & Gerry picked their daughter up from creche and had planned to go for dinner. To help the kids to sleep they gave them calpol. Kate picked Maddie up at 6pm, they left the kids approx 2 and a half hours later at 8.35pm. How in the blue hell is that convoluted? That's the definition of the obvious.
If anything your theory of kidnapping is the bigger stretch as I originally pointed out there was no signs of forced entry, No prints on the windows to suggest entry from the outside. A man was seen walking away with the child within seconds of their apartment block, yet no one else saw this person again? This theory would include the apt being staked out days at a time and picking their perfect moment to strike. After the deed was done they then would have to hide maddie for weeks or possibly months on end away from all the media. She has a distinctive mark on her right eye and would be identifiable.
No I'll stick with parents involved, hid the body and have been living a lie since.
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Not until the private investigators and Scotland Yard got involved. But I felt it was gang related anyway, regardless of those stories.
It wasn't publicized by the Portuguese police is why you probably didn't hear about it. As per the doc it was only a few families that reported it. Had the Police made it public at the time, then it could have triggered people's minds into reporting things that may have seen initially but seemed innocuous at the time.
For those stating it was a kidnapping, why was there no discernible DNA found to suggest this?
Surely there would be DNA of an unknown adult found? A hair? Finger print? Saliva or Sweat? No signs of forced entry or windows being opened from the outside, but there was a print found on the inside to suggest it was opened from there.
Surely there would be DNA of an unknown adult found? A hair? Finger print? Saliva or Sweat? No signs of forced entry or windows being opened from the outside, but there was a print found on the inside to suggest it was opened from there.
Correct. Maybe the local police didn't want to harm the tourism of the area. Seems to tie in with the cop Amaral feeling pressure to solve the crime and blaming the parents, rather than admit there was an abduction issue with the area. A ploy he had pulled a few years earlier, and was proven wrong.
Not sure, guessing if it is gang related then these guys know what they are doing. They will wear gloves and some kind of balaclava/mask. The apartment was unlocked anyway so no need for forced entry. Right next to the road. One goes in and grabs, jumps into the car which the other drives off. Could be done within minutes. No CCTV, no boarder checks.
How many children in the area were abducted? It would seem strange to have an organised group working the area and only one child be taken.
He didn't say that and it's not true in any case.
Sounds like 2 different things are being conflated here to present it as a truism. I expect what he meant was that the majority of murder victims are known by their killer which is true. It's also true that the majority of child abductions are done by family members (usually a parent who doesn't have custody) but that's clearly not the case here unless one of them is living a secret life.
To suggest that one of them passed Madeline off to someone else is certainly possible but can't be by any stretch of the imagination considered to be a the likeliest scenario. Neither is it the likeliest scenario that she was accidentally killed by a Calpol overdose which was then subsequently covered up by her parents.
There would surely be something though? I mean they found a print on the inside (can't recall who's it was, think it was Kates)... Even with wearing gloves and mask / balaclava in that heat, sweat perhaps?
It just seems so unlikely to find nothing but they could find a print of Kates and the dogs both went to the same spots for a body and blood and the car.
The evidence does point toward the parents being involved, more so than it does a pedo gang. That sounds more like conspiracy type stories than anything.
How often does a child go missing in these holiday resorts? If it was some kind of gang surely this would be fairly common place? It doesn't seem to be and nor was it at the time.
Wasn’t there DNA of hundreds of people with it being a rented holiday property? I’m guessing that every rented holiday apartment on the planet has hundreds of dna per room.
I don't know tbh. The documentary hints that Portugal has become a magnet for predatory paedophiles from around the world due to it's location, being so close to Morocco & easy access to Europe.
There was also a peado ring 'casa pia' that was found a few years before. Millionaires who paid for young children.
What is unusal from this case, and why it's exploded so much is that is was a middle class, English girl. But according to the private investigator who infiltrated a peado gang on the deep web, there was a request for a 3 year old blonde girl at the time, from a underground gang.
The parents did it falls completely flat when the police suggested the body was put into the car. They didn’t rent it until 25 days after Madeline went missing, it would have been impossible for them to get her corpse into that car with all the publicity.
Without doubt she was taken by a pedo, probably the one that we didn’t hear about until 6 years later who was breaking into holidaymakers apartments and getting into bed with children in that very town.
Unlocked doors just off a busy road and first apartment in the block, I bet the abductors couldn’t believe their luck.
By the time the police had started to inspect the room, dozens and dozens of people had been in and out. Nothing in the room was of any use.
The dogs were impressive evidence at first. But then that was proven to be useless.
I will admit that my gang belief is touching conspiracy theory territory. But these gangs do exist and this kind of thing does happen. Edit: it could also be a lone peado, which there was one in the area at the time.
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