Ultimately is the club's fault and it shows the lack of structure and control going for coaches with not similitudes that require to tear the previous team apart, then hanging onto them for too long. For what it's worth I do think Mourinho has done the best in terms of results but all the money spent has been diluted in tryig to build 3 different teams for 3 different managers; whereas City and Liverpool are able to build on the single idea of one manager (two very good managers at that).
The true cost of the Mourinho era and how badly the club has been run
- Thread starter Bobcat
- Start date
It may be worth it long term to keep ole even if he wins not much then, just so the next manager has a better chance of doing a good job. Don't think Ole is wasting money like previous managers
People need to realise that it’s not just one previous managers mess Ole has had to fix? It’s 3 or 4 other managers players plus the same owners who oversaw and fully backed the whole disaster. That’s a lot of work going on behind the scenes whatever way you want to look at it. The whole organisation needed to change and grow and you can’t realistically reverse all that in one summer and then on a covid budget for the next 2.
The good thing is we are still only another strong window or 2 away from fixing most of our stand out problems if we act now. When Jose left we were in free fall and it looked like almost nothing was salvageable, also during Oles first bad run at the end of the same season and he has still managed to continue to use the best of those remaining players to good effect and keep us competitive up to a point.
I think we should at least wait until a few months into next season if he’s backed to see does the football improve. If he’s not backed what else can he do apart from be pragmatic and try and keep his job until better reinforcements arrive? We need to be adding first team starting quality every summer and pushing the existing under performers down the pecking order. At least signing appropriate competition to push them all the way. Until then his few expensive signings have looked much better and more committed than any previous managers with Bruno our clear best signing in years and we are in second place. I’d have snapped your hand off for a leader like Bruno and second when Jose was getting kicked out. It’s a great platform to build on. I agree Ole has some weird quirks that I won’t get into here but he’s doing a decent job of slowly fixing the squad in a more financially responsible way. If he leaves over the next while then this squad with 1 or 2 quality additions is still definitely the best and most sustainable we’ve had in a long time.
The good thing is we are still only another strong window or 2 away from fixing most of our stand out problems if we act now. When Jose left we were in free fall and it looked like almost nothing was salvageable, also during Oles first bad run at the end of the same season and he has still managed to continue to use the best of those remaining players to good effect and keep us competitive up to a point.
I think we should at least wait until a few months into next season if he’s backed to see does the football improve. If he’s not backed what else can he do apart from be pragmatic and try and keep his job until better reinforcements arrive? We need to be adding first team starting quality every summer and pushing the existing under performers down the pecking order. At least signing appropriate competition to push them all the way. Until then his few expensive signings have looked much better and more committed than any previous managers with Bruno our clear best signing in years and we are in second place. I’d have snapped your hand off for a leader like Bruno and second when Jose was getting kicked out. It’s a great platform to build on. I agree Ole has some weird quirks that I won’t get into here but he’s doing a decent job of slowly fixing the squad in a more financially responsible way. If he leaves over the next while then this squad with 1 or 2 quality additions is still definitely the best and most sustainable we’ve had in a long time.
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Great little read.
Last 6-8 years we've basically spent net $50-170 mil per year on transfers, usually swinging back and forth between the high end and the low end. I'm guessing we'll spend $80-100 mil this summer due to low Covid revenues, which would be net $50-70 mil after we unload Jesse, Jones, Dalot, and maybe 1-2 others. Basically puts us at the low end of recent annual net transfer spend.
While I think unloading DDG/Martial is unlikely to happen, this article makes me think it's the smart move for many reasons. Obviously we get inbound revenue for some players who aren't performing, but we also remove 2 of the top 3 salaries on the squad, and potentially even reduce the trajectory of salary demands from Bruno and/or others in the future.
I'd rather extend Romero's contract and let him + Henderson fight it out for the top spot in preseason, while reinvesting cash from a DDG sale into another position we need (RW/CB/CDM/CF), than continue to be held hostage by his high wage bill and the threat of other top performers demanding equal pay. DDG costs us more than KDB costs city right now.
Last 6-8 years we've basically spent net $50-170 mil per year on transfers, usually swinging back and forth between the high end and the low end. I'm guessing we'll spend $80-100 mil this summer due to low Covid revenues, which would be net $50-70 mil after we unload Jesse, Jones, Dalot, and maybe 1-2 others. Basically puts us at the low end of recent annual net transfer spend.
While I think unloading DDG/Martial is unlikely to happen, this article makes me think it's the smart move for many reasons. Obviously we get inbound revenue for some players who aren't performing, but we also remove 2 of the top 3 salaries on the squad, and potentially even reduce the trajectory of salary demands from Bruno and/or others in the future.
I'd rather extend Romero's contract and let him + Henderson fight it out for the top spot in preseason, while reinvesting cash from a DDG sale into another position we need (RW/CB/CDM/CF), than continue to be held hostage by his high wage bill and the threat of other top performers demanding equal pay. DDG costs us more than KDB costs city right now.
Yeah a grammatical in the intro is unforgiveable, particularly when you're prefixing an article explaining how 'extensive research was done for this piece from books...'
Yeah, it's not necessary to keep him (as I don't think he's good enough to be a Manchester United manager) but there needs to be more long term planning. Like if you were going to replace him it would need to someone who can build upon the current team, or set some standards or parameters within the club about how the team should play.
Genuine question, are prefixing and prefacing interchangeable?
No, that's my bad after slating that guy's use of language. Prefix just relates to a single word, ie the 'pre' in prefix, I believe? He's really written a standfirst, but not sure if that word comes across as nerdy publishing shibboleth.Prefix works for an entire element such as the preface who is prefixed to a book. So prefixing seems correct but I believe that it's the first time that I see it used that way and wondered if they were usually interchangeable.
i am. All part of the Glazers committment.
you “absolutely think”. Good to know.
James, Pellistri, Amad, Cavani. Without even trying. You serious.
No I’m complaining about the Glazers.... and cnuts who excuse them
Bellion, Djemba Djemba, Miller, Larsson... without even trying.
Painting it as the cost of the Mourinho era is disingenuous and completely unfair. It's clearly the cost of the Woodward era and the complete lack of direction and strategy from the top.
Van Gaal did far more damage than Jose. Huge transfer outlay and made the squad worse. Moyes would likely have done the same if they'd given him enough time.
If the Ibra contract wasn't financially viable, how is that on Jose? Surely that's the club's decision. Ibra was a fantastic signing. He was the club's best attacking player that season by a long way and his injury was a hammer blow. Jose would have played a major part in convincing him to sign too.
The Sanchez contract was crazy and was the real turning point of Jose's tenure. Jose rightly takes the flak for his poor performance and how he unsettled the squad but the financial implications are hardly Jose's concern. It was more Woodward trying to get one over on City.
Even now, the "strategy" at the club is hardly groundbreaking. It's basically "return to how the club was run under Fergie" which is why Ole is so important and why the club still feels like a house of cards where managerial change brings more potential downside than upside.
Things have definitely improved on the recruitment side but I have my doubts over the long term sucess of this "transfer committee". It seems unwieldy and as a structure lacks agility.
It's fine under a manager like Ole who genuinely has the long term success of the club at heart and won't kick up a stink when the club fails to land his targets.
But, bring in an elite coach who is held accountable for results and leave him with the attack Ole had in his first full season or sell his 2 marquee forwards and don't sign a single first team forward for money and see how that works out. Using Van de Beek as a wide forward was never going to work.
The attacking players are the most expensive area of any team. United has not signed a single first team forward who is still at the club for money since Martial in 2015. Even he was signed as a prospect and not the finished article. That's almost 6 years. Half of a footballer's career.
As a result, the attack is inexperienced and inconsistent and the team's attacking output fluctuates wildly with their form.
Van Gaal did far more damage than Jose. Huge transfer outlay and made the squad worse. Moyes would likely have done the same if they'd given him enough time.
If the Ibra contract wasn't financially viable, how is that on Jose? Surely that's the club's decision. Ibra was a fantastic signing. He was the club's best attacking player that season by a long way and his injury was a hammer blow. Jose would have played a major part in convincing him to sign too.
The Sanchez contract was crazy and was the real turning point of Jose's tenure. Jose rightly takes the flak for his poor performance and how he unsettled the squad but the financial implications are hardly Jose's concern. It was more Woodward trying to get one over on City.
Even now, the "strategy" at the club is hardly groundbreaking. It's basically "return to how the club was run under Fergie" which is why Ole is so important and why the club still feels like a house of cards where managerial change brings more potential downside than upside.
Things have definitely improved on the recruitment side but I have my doubts over the long term sucess of this "transfer committee". It seems unwieldy and as a structure lacks agility.
It's fine under a manager like Ole who genuinely has the long term success of the club at heart and won't kick up a stink when the club fails to land his targets.
But, bring in an elite coach who is held accountable for results and leave him with the attack Ole had in his first full season or sell his 2 marquee forwards and don't sign a single first team forward for money and see how that works out. Using Van de Beek as a wide forward was never going to work.
The attacking players are the most expensive area of any team. United has not signed a single first team forward who is still at the club for money since Martial in 2015. Even he was signed as a prospect and not the finished article. That's almost 6 years. Half of a footballer's career.
As a result, the attack is inexperienced and inconsistent and the team's attacking output fluctuates wildly with their form.
Regarding Zlatan, I'm pretty sure the main plan was for him to stay one more season and for us to sign Griezmann. His ACL injury changed all our problems and forced us to shift the money to striker position. Has nothing to do with him being a stopgap or not. All the talking back them was about him staying one more season.
Basically just like Cavani currently.
Basically just like Cavani currently.
Think so also. The injury meant Mourinho had to change his Summer plans to an expensive as feck new number 9 instead.
Yeah it was a very unfortunate incident. Shame but I don't think we had nothing else to do after this ACL injury. Beside, our options back then at the striker were Lukaku, Morata and Belotti, and Lukaku on the paper was best option among them, and ticked all the boxes : PL proven and scores a lot for a midtable team. It didn't work, it happens.
Agree with this, particularly on LVG. Not so much on Moyes. He had to go but I give him the benefit of the doubt that he would have at least made some good signings that summer. Kroos for one. He could not have got it more wrong than LVG.
The second bolded part is crucial to me as to why we're not that good. We're relying heavily on academy prospects, patched with older free transfers in the hardest area of the pitch, to try and win the PL. What other top team is doing this (Messi excepted) ?
And people actually think a new manager will make a difference. I hope the club is sensible enough to let Ole see this through because when he talks about “fixing the culture”, this stuff is a big part of what he’s talking about. He will stabilise this club, it would be an incredible risk to hand the reins over to trendy x manager of the month and have the cycle continue again. And we still wouldn’t compete with City. Time to accept that this club still has a lot of foundational work left to do before we can become truly competitive again.
Not a single one. Look at the impact Bruno has had as a player in his prime. Add Harry Kane to this attack as the centre forward and United's attack would be a completely different proposition.
Even Cavani who was never an elite player and is well past his best improves the United attack when they can get him on the pitch.
Moyes took on an impossible job and tried to stabilise us without falling back, which he just couldn’t manage.
LVG really started to rip the squad apart yet bought a load of expensive dross so whilst he won an FA Cup, his tenure was fairly destructive for our future.
Mourinho in all honesty didn’t do much better in that he bought silverware yet had no interest in our long term legacy and only signed players to win him ‘HIS’ trophies.
Ole has picked up the pieces and has done a fair to good job recruitment wise, but I still retain little confidence he can deliver silverware sadly. I hope I’m proved wrong.
The great managers rebuild squads for the long term benefit of the club and still deliver trophies on the way.
LVG really started to rip the squad apart yet bought a load of expensive dross so whilst he won an FA Cup, his tenure was fairly destructive for our future.
Mourinho in all honesty didn’t do much better in that he bought silverware yet had no interest in our long term legacy and only signed players to win him ‘HIS’ trophies.
Ole has picked up the pieces and has done a fair to good job recruitment wise, but I still retain little confidence he can deliver silverware sadly. I hope I’m proved wrong.
The great managers rebuild squads for the long term benefit of the club and still deliver trophies on the way.
A top striker with great movement and work ethic who has one of the best goal scoring records in Europe is not an elite player?
Yeah we've forgotten what it's like to have top quality forwards like the past and fool ourselves into thinking we still do. The plan seems to be slower, buying prospects like Amad which I can accept but it requires patience.
While some of his signings were designed for short term success, the likes of Bailly, Lindelof, Pogba, Lukaku and Fred arrived at an age which made them potentially long term players for us.
You can complain about each signing individually when it comes to their ability, but in terms of short term vs. long term, I think we had a decent mixture under him... At least until Alexis Sanchez.
When I look at Maguire or AWB ,I have some doubts whether other managers would be that keen on them, due to their weaknesses. So yes, they might end up being considered a waste. And yes, letting Solskjaer sign more players might be for the detriment of the club long term.
Whether we keep Solskjaer for another two months, two years or eight years, is not the question. The question is if we are able to bring in someone whose ideas would suit the squad and continue that work, or would want something very different.
Exactly. Managers are not financial people, especially in this day and age when clubs are big businesses. They operate within what their bosses allow them.
Agree with much of what you said but you can't put Ibra on a free as a "wasted transfer" when he banged in 30 goals for us
The greatest cost to the squad and it's future was LVG and his tenure, he absolutely ruined so much within the team, he did far worse than Mourinho.
On an unrelated note I just saw that Lukaku, Sanchez, and DARMIAN! All scored for inter tonight in a 3-0 win why are we cursed?
why are we cursed?he could have used Martial or Rashford in that role though
It's 2021 and we don't even trust both to lead the line now as number 9 so how come we should have had few years ago?
I never thought so. He was always at the level below. I always thought he missed too many chances and never wanted him when he was linked with United many times during the Woodward era. I think he's doing a very good job now and his work rate and experience should be a good example to United's young forwards - although there aren't many signs of improved workrate from Rashford, Martial and Greenwood!
It does. Young players' form will fluctuate and it will impact the goal threat of the team significantly if they are all out of form together. If you had a consistent number 9 with 2 of Rashford, Martial, Greenwood on either side it would be a more balanced attack. But, that would cost more money than United has to spend.
This is also what frustrates me when people quote how much money Ole has spent. He may have identified Maguire and Wan Bissaka but he didn't set the price at £130m.
The club's inability to sign anyone without paying significantly over the asking price shouldn't be used as a stick to beat the manager. If he struggles to integrate or use those players (Jose/Sanchez, Ole/Donny, LVG/Di Maria, Falcao, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Darmian, Memphis, everyone he signed) that's on the manager, but they don't negotiate deals or contracts.
We aren't cursed, we just have managers throwing different crap at the wall trying to make something work. They're just shuffling the squad rather than improving it.On an unrelated note I just saw that Lukaku, Sanchez, and DARMIAN! All scored for inter tonight in a 3-0 win
All roads lead to Ed Woodward.
thanks OP for the interesting read. This reminds me of what an Inter fan told me when we signed Mou up. This guy has very close connections to the Moratti family which allowed him to bring players to visit Malta a few years back. He told me that
Mou is an excellent tactician but that the club should never allow him to get his hands on the purse strings. The guy simply have no clue about team building or talent spotting
The only thing that this article irks me is the fact that it focuses solely on Mourinho. I find that unfair. Mou was saddled with past mistakes same as Ole did. The article itself brush to that when it mentioned that the club was still paying for Bastian, and Di Maria. It also highlights Mou's defensive blunders with Bailly and Lindelof respectively and the need for United to keep on buying CBs. However it fails to mention how silly it was for United to spend 80m on Maguire. Similarly to Mou, Ole or any new manager succeeding him will be forced to buy yet another CB despite the ridiculous fees we paid for the former Leicester player
Ultimately the fault rest on the Glazers. Sure they inherited a club whose system was still stuck to the 1970s ie a time when the manager used to take all football decisions and the board simply nodded and provided the money for them. However they had all the time in the world to change that starting by hiring a CEO who understand football and a top quality DOF. Sir Alex is gone. Manager's aim is to win trophies and to survive another day. Don't expect them to sacrifice their career to safeguard the club's long term prosperity.
Mou is an excellent tactician but that the club should never allow him to get his hands on the purse strings. The guy simply have no clue about team building or talent spotting
The only thing that this article irks me is the fact that it focuses solely on Mourinho. I find that unfair. Mou was saddled with past mistakes same as Ole did. The article itself brush to that when it mentioned that the club was still paying for Bastian, and Di Maria. It also highlights Mou's defensive blunders with Bailly and Lindelof respectively and the need for United to keep on buying CBs. However it fails to mention how silly it was for United to spend 80m on Maguire. Similarly to Mou, Ole or any new manager succeeding him will be forced to buy yet another CB despite the ridiculous fees we paid for the former Leicester player
Ultimately the fault rest on the Glazers. Sure they inherited a club whose system was still stuck to the 1970s ie a time when the manager used to take all football decisions and the board simply nodded and provided the money for them. However they had all the time in the world to change that starting by hiring a CEO who understand football and a top quality DOF. Sir Alex is gone. Manager's aim is to win trophies and to survive another day. Don't expect them to sacrifice their career to safeguard the club's long term prosperity.
All Managers have their own agenda. If left unmonitored then they would sell valid players to bring their people in that could fit to their own 'vision' of football. Lukaku is a classic case. Under Ole's administration he was poorly managed and coached. He was then sold to Inter were they bothered investigating why he became as fat as an ox, they coached him appropriately and they suited the tactics around them. Now Inter has the second best top scorer in the Serie A while we're on the search of a very expensive striker and a top quality CB that is able to carry the 80m rated CB Ole brought in. We'll probably have a similar story with VDB in few years time.On an unrelated note I just saw that Lukaku, Sanchez, and DARMIAN! All scored for inter tonight in a 3-0 win
The same happened with LVG and Mourinho who were allowed to show the door to valid players like Evans and Keane.
That is why the board need to be knowledgeable enough to evaluate what the manager is asking for and make sure to put him back in his box if needed.
Because he spent the most and has the most net-spent too.
And also the point is not about Zlatan if you read the article, Zlatan is just one of many example. If anything other Mourinho signings like Sanchez and Matic will make the recruitment under Mourinho much worse.
I really hope that we take action quickly in the summer but my gut feeling is that if we are going to sell any of our assets then it won't happen until after the euros which is going to have a knock on effect next season
That was his biggest crime. For example we let a 28 year old Nani go for 6 million... thats just feckedLVG though Wummy, he even sold useful players that fecker.
Hernandez, Nani, Rafael replaced with Darmian, Depay & Falcao...
Meanwhile Moyes stopped us from signing Alcantara so we could sign Fellaini.LVG though Wummy, he even sold useful players that fecker.
Hernandez, Nani, Rafael replaced with Darmian, Depay & Falcao...
That's the real flaw in our system. The manager can basically suggest any stupid thing and he goes unchallenged because no one at board level understand football. I mean whose going to challenge proven managers like Mou, LVG and to a lesser degree Ole and Moyes? Judge? Woodward?
That’s why I can’t believe Mourinho gets more shit than LVG. Selling extremely useful players and bringing in utter shite.
People say Ole inherited a clusterfeck but I’d argue Mourinho inherited worse, just without the toxicity. The ridiculous Rooney situation, Schneiderlin, Darmian, Rojo, Depay, Schweinsteiger.