It's not tinkering. Scheduling issues means he has to rotate. I'd be one of those moaning if he continually played the same players and ran them to the ground.
Tinkerman Ole
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It wasn't his intention to give them 45 minutes. To suggest his tinkering works when he had to call upon players he never wanted to call upon isn't really a strong point, is all I'm saying.And as such, he won the game and they had 45 minutes rest
How cant you see this as a positive? I’d understand if we had dropped points....
I never said 45 minute rest is a bad thing though.
It doesnt matter, he’s entitled to use them from the bench. Every tinkering manager in world football will at times need to bring his best players on to turn games. I was the great man Fergie do it countless times, you see Klopp do it often.
Whilst tinkering relates to starting a different looking side more than just occasionally, it only works if your starting line-up is justified. Not if you have to go to the bench to rectify a mistaken team selection. That's a failed tinker, which was rectified at half time.
Of course he was well within his right to use the bench. That's not really part of the debate.
An example where he "tinkered" successfully would be say, Leipzig.
Because we have gone 5 games with conceding first and then having to react. Surely you can see its a problem. Its not the game. Everyone's buzzing about the result. Everyone's buzzing about our league position. We can still analyze areas of improvement and its glaring and baffling how we can be the worst team one minute and world class the next. And its happening over and over again. If its not because we keep tinkering then what is it? Because if we are to achieve anything it has to be sorted.And as such, he won the game and they had 45 minutes rest
How cant you see this as a positive? I’d understand if we had dropped points....
Bizarre thread.
Ole is the first manager we’ve had in a decade (and this includes an ageing Ferguson) who doesn’t rotate for the hell of it. I mean, it was only a few months ago that he was getting pelters for overplaying the same XI, in spite of having to field the likes of Ighalo and Lingard if he fancied making a change.
Seems most (all?) others responders to this thread happen to agree.
I’d argue that our current back four is the most settled it’s been in a decade, too. Say what you want about their quality, but it’s the same lads every week.
Ole is the first manager we’ve had in a decade (and this includes an ageing Ferguson) who doesn’t rotate for the hell of it. I mean, it was only a few months ago that he was getting pelters for overplaying the same XI, in spite of having to field the likes of Ighalo and Lingard if he fancied making a change.
Seems most (all?) others responders to this thread happen to agree.
I’d argue that our current back four is the most settled it’s been in a decade, too. Say what you want about their quality, but it’s the same lads every week.
He is basically playing all the time, so that does not have to be true. Last time he sat out the first half, we were still the dominate side. Fernandes is obviously very important for this team, but it´s a game of 90 minutes, and United tend to play better second half. It seems like every team that plays United these days, comes with the plan of pressing us high and intensive, as they do not respect our abilities to play out from the back. They have seen other teams beating us that way. Then they run out of steam, and we hammer them in the second. If Fernandes and Rashford had played the first half, and Donny and Canavi the second, I think the pictures would have been different. So I think the fans are a bit unfair to those playing first half when we are forgetting there are two teams on the pitch.
The problem is that we don't have a clearly defined system so players can't slot in and out easily. Instead we rely on individual moments of quality and organic understanding between players. This makes us hopeless unable to rotate or leave out Bruno.
If we had a decent coach would not be a problem.
If we had a decent coach would not be a problem.
He didn't tinker post lockdown and it resulted in a burnout end of season
Problem is some of our players don't seemingly give it their all or just aren't good enough.
Sure we added players but really given he's playing with a lot of youth were gonna have inconsistency too
The short end of season didn't help and the packed schedule means we need to tinker but we will get weird performances
Problem is some of our players don't seemingly give it their all or just aren't good enough.
Sure we added players but really given he's playing with a lot of youth were gonna have inconsistency too
The short end of season didn't help and the packed schedule means we need to tinker but we will get weird performances
Ole is right to tinker.
Our widely known famous-to-the-letter-extreme inconsistencies is not because of constant tinkering.
Our widely known famous-to-the-letter-extreme inconsistencies is not because of constant tinkering.
Take out the names and this describes Potter's Brighton perfectly, but he gets loads of praise for it and it is seen as a positive.
Want ole to be gone. But the man turned it around today. Fair play
The same 11 cannot play 60 games each season, Cov19 or not. Rotation is necessary, unless you are Sheffield with only 12 players squad. Key point is whether bench players step up or prefer watching from the stand and earn their 300K like Ozil
Ok, thanks for your input. My point is that we managed to rest our best 2 players for 45 minutes and still win the game, which is a plus ahead of Leipzig.
What you're discussing is how we concede the first goal.
Completely separate issue, but happy to talk about it.
We're building a long-term squad capable of challenging. We've got the youngest squad in the league and it will take time. It took City years to build to top 2 level, it took Liverpool years.
Whether Ole is the man to win trophies remains to be seen, but the squad building is generally good. We've improved in every area of the pitch this past 2 years.
Also, not "everyone is buzzing about our league position". I'm pleased we've recovered from a poor start to the season, pleased we're a win away from the top, content after 10-11 games and optimistic for the season... but "buzzing"? No.
I find this old post I made back in 2008 ish!! Should have out a bet on it then.
sparky
Full Member
Joined Jul 5, 2006Messages 2,413Location in la la land
Just watching, Theres only one....Ole Gunnar Solskjaer on MUTV
Cracking goals, such a shame he had injury problems.
Found myself wondering if Ole is being groomed to take over as Manager when SAF leaves.
2OLEGEND!!!
sparky
Full Member
Joined Jul 5, 2006Messages 2,413Location in la la land
Just watching, Theres only one....Ole Gunnar Solskjaer on MUTV
Cracking goals, such a shame he had injury problems.
Found myself wondering if Ole is being groomed to take over as Manager when SAF leaves.
2OLEGEND!!!
Lots of tinkerman articles doing the rounds in the last few days. Find it quite baffling especially after the "Unchanged FC" and "running players into the ground" arguments in the summer. Damned if you do rest and rotate, damned if you don't.
Do people not realise this season is massively different compared to the past?
He'd be mad not to tinker and rotate due to the circumstances, the issue is we don't have the squad depth to make it not massively noticeable when he does so.
No one is saying dont rotate. Playing the same 11 week in week out is as nuts as changing it constantly. However there is an art to making changes. You have to do it in a way that is not detrimental to the team. The problem is that Ole not only changes players, he changes formation, he changes positioning. Every game. Its too much change. Im 99 percent sure other teams know this as well and get their teams to press us early on so when we are out of sorts and finding out feet.
I am glad there are reports that Senior players are pushing back against this. So far its been only me! :-)
The issue for me isn't changing players up, it's fine, SAF used to do it all the time. Nowadays with the COVID context, it's even more vital.
What annoys me is the use of so many formations. That must not be easy for the players to adapt to
What annoys me is the use of so many formations. That must not be easy for the players to adapt to
This issue isn't tinkering. The issue is not having a defined style. Look at the way we played our last three games? Its what makes the likes of Pep and Klopp stand out in comparison to lesser managers. Players in those teams know their roles weeks before a match. I doubt our players know what they're doing during the match.
This is it for me too. It’s not the player rotation. It’s a bit more the formation, but even then not 100 percent that...it’s the style. The mindset, how to play etc. changes too much.
Agreed but that all goes under the umbrella of tinkering.
In 16 Premier League and Champions League matches this season, Solskjaer has used 11 different midfield combinations - with nine having only been seen once. The Red Devils have fallen behind in a staggering ten of these matches.
Man United formations 2020-21
4-2-3-1: P11 W6 D1 L4
4-4-2 diamond: P3 W2 D0 L1
3-4-1-2: P2 W1 D0 L1
It's both tinkering and a lack of defined style of play imo. A common denominator during the two times we were consistent under Ole(second half of last season and his early interim period) was having an unchanged FC. Both of these teams started becoming inconsistent when the players started getting tired and there was no strong depth to back them up.
This season we have good depth now to rotate with the unchanged FC we used in the second half of last season that made us consistent . Except now some of these players are off form so the unchanged team needs to change. The problem here is Ole simply hasn't found the squad that works and that is why he is always tinkering formations and players and because of this we are not consistent.
We will find consistency whenever Ole discovers his unchanged Fc again and when that team gets tired or some players are off form we will become inconsistent again because Ole does not know how to get the best out of the depth he has and he doesn't know how because he is more reliant on individual quality than a defined style of play
But surely if Ole keeps changing our shape as well as the players on the team sheet, we won't reach a situation where individuals know what is expected when they are asked to play in a certain position?
The chopping and changing of formation and faces is stopping the team from developing its own version of muscle memory, so when someone comes in to replace an injured team mate, for example, they don't know for sure what their role is going to be and positionally, what is expected of them. I understand you have to be able to flex things but there should be a core shape that is favoured at home or away.
I would have thought that this was a key requirement to train players to behave as a unit and build up a clear understanding of who does what. When you do this very well, you get to the situation that observers call telepathy between players. Currently, our team's setting is firmly on brain freeze most of the time.
The problem is not rotation for me. The problem is that tactics always change. The last few months we have played 4-5-1, 4-4-2 and 5-3-2. He has been 2 years here and he is still uncertain which formation he prefers. You cant change system every week and expect consistency..
I mean players needing to build an understanding is an undisputed concept isn't it? So is consistency in position and formation?
My issue and i balther on about it all the time is that our players who come in and out the team all play differently. If i could ask for one thing it would be for all our forwards to work with Bruno on making movements he can predict.
My issue and i balther on about it all the time is that our players who come in and out the team all play differently. If i could ask for one thing it would be for all our forwards to work with Bruno on making movements he can predict.
I agree with what you're saying here.
Last season, post lockdown Ole picked more or less the same formation & team for a number of games on the bounce.
And this was our most consistent period under his management.
It doesn't help that we dont have adequate cover for the RW position & that we have many central midfielders who all need games.
I'm not saying Ole should just pick the same team week in week out but our core or spine needs to be consistent. Our formation needs to be consistent. And from this constant base we will hopefully be able to put together some consistent performances.
Definitely the biggest tinkerman in the premier league since Ranieri at Chelsea
Ole is a cautious manager. And his position seems to be under review as of late I don't think he would take the risk of letting the players develop muscle memory by them playing together consistently unless they start performing from the get go.
New formations, combinations and setups every game 
Is definitely the biggest issue in getting our chemistry flowing this season, I have no issue rotating players due to the hectic schedule, but I’d prefer a settled formation. Let the opposition worry about us.New formations, combinations and setups every game
Serious amount of games coming up and I’m more than happy for lads to be getting a break.
Player rotation is fine. We have to give players a break to minimise the risk of them getting burnt out later in the season.
System rotation is a lot riskier though, and that's what worries me.
AWB missing has caused the mass tinkering today. Don’t think he’d have picked such a vastly different side to the usual If AWB was fit
Its genius if it works out and disaster if it doesn't. Leicester will have to rework thier formation now to play against 3-5-2.
Ole has to live and die by his tactics just like any other manager.
Ole has to live and die by his tactics just like any other manager.
a shame that it seems Tuanzebe is not able to play 2 games in a row. He did fine against Everton.
Its potentially not a massive change. This may well be our usual shape just with Lindelof at RB.
We play the same formation (4231) practically every week and every so often reverts to an obviously rehearsed 352. It might not always work (does anything?) but the suggestion that Ole tinkers on a whim is not based on the evidence.
I’d argue that he’s the first manager in a long time who regularly turns out the obvious team that the masses would like to see.
I’d argue that he’s the first manager in a long time who regularly turns out the obvious team that the masses would like to see.
Not doing too badly for a tinkerman
