It's just weird hearing United fans overly concerned with what they need other teams not to be doing. I guess as the focuses of the club have deviated so have the mindsets of fans.
Top 4 race / race abandoned (or maybe not) / Leicester & Chelsea in the process of bottling it
- Thread starter Andycoleno9
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Oh god, we have another @Pagh Wraith here with his magical calculator he got from Michael Essien
Speaking seriously though, yes this Utd side has clear deficiencies and we're definitely not quite there, but considering the circumstances of the season and some of the frankly ridiculous schedules we've had to deal with, we've done very well. The key now is to improve, which IMO will only come via signings and I think this year will be the year that Ole is finally backed by the board to have an LvG or Jose-esque summer of transfer activity, because unlike the other two, he's actually proven his worth during his time here.
Chelsea and Leicester fecked it. Not us, with our 4 games in 7 days.
I don't disagree with much of that.Oh god, we have another @Pagh Wraith here with his magical calculator he got from Michael Essien
Speaking seriously though, yes this Utd side has clear deficiencies and we're definitely not quite there, but considering the circumstances of the season and some of the frankly ridiculous schedules we've had to deal with, we've done very well. The key now is to improve, which IMO will only come via signings and I think this year will be the year that Ole is finally backed by the board to have an LvG or Jose-esque summer of transfer activity, because unlike the other two, he's actually proven his worth during his time here.
btw Pagh is probably one of the most intelligent posters on here
And you're the second person to mention that calculator and i'm afraid I have no clue what either of you are on about. (not asking either
)Even if we write off the Leicester result, that's two less days for us to prepare for a game which would ordinarily have been the predominant focus of the entire week leading up to it. Instead, we had to compartmentalise a week into three two-day chunks for three separate games. Is it any wonder that the two games which had one full day's gap in between were the games we ended up losing? Come on man, they weren't even training on grass after the Villa match
Yeah I remember he was the one that saw through Arteta when almost everyone else was knocking one out over him.
Haha the Essien thing was back in 2007, when it looked like we were finally winning the league, and he came out saying that Chelsea would still win because he did the calculations. It's been a bit of a classic caf meme for the old timers on here ever since.I don't disagree with much of that.
btw Pagh is probably one of the most intelligent posters on here
And you're the second person to mention that calculator and i'm afraid I have no clue what either of you are on about. (not asking either
Also, just to add to my last post, this is predominantly a squad comprised of players who Jose either didn't want or rate highly, or who he saw as squad players. There have only been four (if we count Cavani) genuine first teamers signed since Ole came in, and three of those were in his first season (one of whom wasn't signed until the January deadline day of that season). To have gotten us to where we are with essentially the Jose rejects squad, is very good going. What now needs to happen is proper first team quality coming in and filling in the four (three while Cavani is here) big gaps we have in the squad: RW, DM, CB and CF.
With the useless board we have, I think we'll get a maximum of two of those slots filled per summer, by which point I wouldn't be surprised to see Pogba leaving which would mean yet another big purchase being needed. In essence, the yank bastards have us exactly where they want us. Established top 4 and they can now sit back on their laurels for 4-5 years and milk the club for as long as they want.
I don't think you are established top 4 though, that's kind of my point. I think things have gone slightly your way this season and if this season was played out 100 times more often than not United would be in the thick of the battle now still for a top 4 place rather than sitting pretty in 2nd.
I agree with your comments on the squad but while he is better than I anticipated ,I was highly critical of both Solskjaer and Lampard before the season and in the early stages, I still think he is a limited manager and a sub par coach.. From a selfish point of view I am happy he is United manager as i don't ever see him winning a League title or Champions League.
What if we had more time, do we beat Leicester and Pool? I don't think we do having already qualified and looking to not get injured for the final. If we did beat them both they'd be the same on the same points gap each and just closer to Spurs and West Ham.
The most likely scenario with no protests is we beat Leicester and draw with Liverpool, that's actually worse and massively helps Pool. We could draw both and it's the same points gap again for both teams. The most unlikely scenario if we have time to prepare and no protests is us losing to Leicester and beating Pool.
So I agree with your first line Chelsea and Leicester have fecked it, in other games, Newcastle and Arsenal spring to mind. This idea our messed up schedule has handed Pool a CL spot is false, we've lost to both and not affected it. It's affected our points total and momentum for the final. Unhindered we're probably beating Leicester and drawing Pool or with top 4 sorted and eyes on the final drawing with Leicester and losing to Pool narrowly so the protests have in some way made us lose to both and not have a major say in it, most likely Pool would be a point better off over Leicester had we had more time between games.
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This. Losing both games meant we had no impact on the top 4 race whatsoever, same if we drew both or won both.
We have not handed anything to anyone, whoever misses out on top 4 of those three only have themselves to blame
The Chelsea fans on here love to pretend Utd are average and that Chelsea can easily get past us when the reality is we have finished above them two years in a row and frankly have a better team than them. These were the same debates I had last summer after they spunked all that money away. There’s a fair bit of arrogance from the chelsea fans on this board which means I’d happily see them lose the champions league final and drop out the top 4.
It would be nice but City winning old big ears would be even worse. Hence Chelsea all the way for that one!
But I can't see Chelsea winning the final. They'll get top 4 and that's it.
Ah 8 points. Interesting. Obviously that's an important stat and theres no way around it.
Oh.
I get that you’re probably saying this off the back of xG or whatever, which I don’t entirely disregard, but you’re pretty much ignoring the overall context of the season, our lack of preseason etc.
We’ve lost 6 league games, 3 of which were in the first 6 games where we were clearly miles off the pace thanks to having no pre-season. 2 of the other 3 losses came in a week when we played 4 games in 8 days.
We’ve comfortably been the 2nd best team in the country this season.
Yet all the experts, pundits, managers, people heavily involved in the game, people that actually watch the game and not the stats and online models, would suggest otherwise
that Liverpool were the best side in the league
all this season has proven is our squad depth needs improving and that certain players have dipped in form at similar times, possibly shot from the last few seasons of being and trying to be “all time contender hot”
The end of our season is our bottle job. Nobody else's. If you must rely on your rivals to get you in, you don't deserve CL. I still think we make it, but we should have sealed this games ago.
100% Right !
Leicester only have themselves to blame for the position they are in.They can still do it but need to do it themselves.
All about perspective for me. Back in December I'd have bitten your hand off if you'd offered me the situation that with two games to go United had secured top 4 and Liverpool would still need to win their final two matches to be mostly certain to qualify.
Sure, given how it might have gone recently I'm a little sad they will probably get in, but compared to this time last year, this is all hilarious stuff to me seeing the former league champions fail so badly at retaining their first title in 30 years. It's awesome. They should be on 20 titles by now and they aren't
Sure, given how it might have gone recently I'm a little sad they will probably get in, but compared to this time last year, this is all hilarious stuff to me seeing the former league champions fail so badly at retaining their first title in 30 years. It's awesome. They should be on 20 titles by now and they aren't
Spot on. A year wasted by a team at their peak. They really had a chance to win back to back titles and the CL, with the big teams in Europe being so poor. Now with their players a year older and losing form, I couldn’t have wished it any better.All about perspective for me. Back in December I'd have bitten your hand off if you'd offered me the situation that with two games to go United had secured top 4 and Liverpool would still need to win their final two matches to be mostly certain to qualify.
Sure, given how it might have gone recently I'm a little sad they will probably get in, but compared to this time last year, this is all hilarious stuff to me seeing the former league champions fail so badly at retaining their first title in 30 years. It's awesome. They should be on 20 titles by now and they aren't
Chelsea weirdly always have some kind of superiority complex (probably since the Russian takeover). That Essien comment back then was no surprise.
They (player and fans) were genuinely shocked in 2006/07 that we could win the title back from them. They refused to believe it until we actually won it.
Mikel then claiming “we want our trophy back”. Their trophy, yeah. What finally shut them up even back then was us winning three in a row.
Not surprised at all they don’t want to believe we are improving when they even refused to believe it back then when we had an indefinitely better manager.
They (player and fans) were genuinely shocked in 2006/07 that we could win the title back from them. They refused to believe it until we actually won it.
Mikel then claiming “we want our trophy back”. Their trophy, yeah. What finally shut them up even back then was us winning three in a row.
Not surprised at all they don’t want to believe we are improving when they even refused to believe it back then when we had an indefinitely better manager.
Yeah, I think you guys will make it. Either through the league position or you'll win the CL.
No excuses at this point. If we don't make top 4 it's absolutely our own feckup.
I think, like you said, the least we'd have gotten was 4 points from those two games. Personally, my focus was more on us getting 2nd done and dusted and out of the way, moreso than stopping Liverpool, and the fact that we weren't able to do that last week (and in the process had Liverpool a major lifeline) is what annoys me, but I'm more annoyed at Chelsea and Leicester for cocking it up as badly as they have.
Anyhoo, here's hoping for a Turf Moor shithouse special...
Two seasons in a row where we've hit Top 4, the season before we missed out narrowly and the season before that we were 2nd. I'd say that's as close to an established presence in the Top 4 as you're going to get in this league, especially considering we've barely bought 4 players to improve the 1st XI in over two years. Give him the sort of backing that Lampard had gotten last summer and I think he'd surprise you.
The criticism of Ole is just bewildering to me. Surely, after seeing at least four managers come in to similar clubs, with similar quality of squads and not even be able to replicate Ole's caretaker run of form alone, should tell you that what he's managed to do at this club is worthy of respect. The fact that he's 2nd after no preseason and a shocker of a transfer window, should also be something he gets kudos for. I mean, certain managers of "The greatest team the PL has ever seen" had better transfer windows and the benefit of a preseason, and couldn't even muster the fight to defend their title. Or another manager much closer home to you, had emphatically "won the transfer window", only to be some way behind the man who is often derided as the PE teacher...
okay, but you make absolutely no sense here - are you able to make a distinction between people killing time discussing football on internet message boards and, like, real life football on which we have no tangible impact whatsoever?I know this has probably been answered but if Liverpool finish 4th and Chelsea 5th, but Chelsea win the CL do they qualify at the expense of Liverpool?
Nope, both Liverpool and Chelsea qualify in that scenario.
Thanks!
Ah if he won nothing and dropped out of top four it would be funny. Like people say ole is an idiot right now, there doesn't have to be logic for the banterYou pretty much have to be what you want him to look like to think he is anything close
Yep and then we lost every single CB that we have on the books and had to move one of the best midfielders at our club out of his position to play in defence.
Obviously disappointing that we couldn't defend the title but our injury list has been ridiculous this season so there's a bit of context to it.
Looking like missing out on the CL on the final day in back to back seasons. How gutting is that.
I mean, its a blow. But as a fan I'd get over that in about 1 minutes with that Wembley day out.
Cup > top 4 nonsense.
For a big club, league is where the progress should be. They had a chance to strengthen themselves with the CL money.
It's amazing how things change isn't it.
We all thought Rodgers classic late season dip would screw them, but then they beat us and it didn't look likely.
But now they're facing having to batter Tottenham last day or hope Liverpool can't beat a dreadful Burnley and Palace!
We all thought Rodgers classic late season dip would screw them, but then they beat us and it didn't look likely.
But now they're facing having to batter Tottenham last day or hope Liverpool can't beat a dreadful Burnley and Palace!
The cup is a great thing, but not getting top 4 after being up there so long will be a huge blow, make no bones about it.
Leicester City are fecked.
Can't believe Leicester City are about to throw it away again. Shame. Terrible performance from them though. The Newcastle and Southampton games are what costed them.
Poor Leicester but for them the more important game to win was the cup final
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Burnley get something tomorrow and then Leicester drop points against spurs on Sunday and let Liverpool back in