From what I've read the girls in the competition have already signed a petition to exclude Valentina. Hope it works and that they remove the records or at least put an asterisk next to it but this cases can get very silly.
Transgender Athletes
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I'm not taking any sides in this potentially heated debate, but we have truly reached the niche corner with Italian 200 meters for women between the age of 50 and 54. I didn't even know that such a category existed!
It's a masters category. If it's like in swimming people are grouped in 5 year age gaps starting from 25. Like 25 to 29, then 30 to 34, then 35 to 39 and so no.I'm not taking any sides in this potentially heated debate, but we have truly reached the niche corner with Italian 200 meters for women between the age of 50 and 54. I didn't even know that such a category existed!
Unless you're some kind of sports savant, why would you?I didn't even know that such a category existed!
I learned earlier just this week in the hypernormalization thread that combat juggling, of all things, is a real thing.I don't think there's much of a debate. Everyone agrees it's daft.
Masters categories in sport has been a thing for ages. 5 year cohorts all the way up to very very old. It’s a cool idea. Gives old cnuts like me something to aspire to.I'm not taking any sides in this potentially heated debate, but we have truly reached the niche corner with Italian 200 meters for women between the age of 50 and 54. I didn't even know that such a category existed!
Absolute unit.
It’s nice to see that thread continues to educated the public.
Bit harsh mate, just let the old ladies go for a run.
It's my favourite thread. I've yet to watch the actual documentary/film, does it still hold up?
Terfs gonna terf.
You really think he’s a feminist?!
What's your take on this, if you're inclined? Do you see a way to solve this in a way which everyone involved is happy? Or is it even a problem at all? I feel like I see these stories about these records being broken in this manner all the time, but surely sports associations all over the world would have reacted in some way by now if this was a massive problem?
I think you can safely say that anything with that terminology can be safely discarded as not a valid opinion
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I'm not inclined at the moment, sorry, every time I've talked about it on here I ended up wishing I didn't.
It's a relatively new problem. Most sports used to rely on rules set by the IOC. Those rule have gradually changed over the past couple of decades - effectively from complete exclusion, via an attempt to define physical and social transition that made it more or less impossible for an athlete to compete until they were already past their sporting prime years, then to testosterone limits, then to no standard criteria and an instruction to different sports to define their own rules.
The various sports are trying to do that and we're seeing the first test cases coming from them now.
Not sure what happened to my thread but got the emails.
@Schmiznurf fair play to you bud for being open and honest about being comfortable to date a trans person pre or post op. Lot of respect for that.
Personally I'd just be uncomfortable with it and would find it far too challenging. But hey love is love and you never know who you'll fall in love with, maybe if you found yourself grow attached or attracted to someone your opinion could change.
I've no issue with people transitioning and they can do what they wish for all I care, they have my support. But I think trans people need to respect others views too and not be offended by people who wouldn't be interested in dating them.
I'm concerned my thread must have been taken as offensive seeing as it was locked. So apologies for anyone I offended. I just feel contensus topics like dating trans people should be open for discussion because it's important to have these discussions and open dialogue and get different perspectives.
Also sorry to OP for posting in this thread. I didn't know where else to respond.
@Schmiznurf fair play to you bud for being open and honest about being comfortable to date a trans person pre or post op. Lot of respect for that.
Personally I'd just be uncomfortable with it and would find it far too challenging. But hey love is love and you never know who you'll fall in love with, maybe if you found yourself grow attached or attracted to someone your opinion could change.
I've no issue with people transitioning and they can do what they wish for all I care, they have my support. But I think trans people need to respect others views too and not be offended by people who wouldn't be interested in dating them.
I'm concerned my thread must have been taken as offensive seeing as it was locked. So apologies for anyone I offended. I just feel contensus topics like dating trans people should be open for discussion because it's important to have these discussions and open dialogue and get different perspectives.
Also sorry to OP for posting in this thread. I didn't know where else to respond.
I want trans people to be themselves and who they want to be and to be happy with that. If they could just… pursue a love other than sports/athletics just for the short term I feel like that would really help. I of course say that tongue in cheek. One video like the above and all sensible discussion flies out of the window with a massive portion of society. It’s an obvious elephant in the room that would at some point need addressing but I feel like the sports thing has been a really effective weapon for those opposing.
Cheers. So it's basically just different sport bodies trying to figure out how to best navigate these uncharterted waters, and it will probably be decided on a case to case basis like that, rather than some overarching stategy by the IOC? Or did I misunderstand that?
Had to look it up in spanish, it was still very convoluted but made more sense than when you read it in english.
They have already, like the trans athlete that wanted to compete with women in powerlifting. USA powelifting wouldn't go with it but Human Rights overruled that decision allowing that person to compete. I believe USA Powerlifting are going to appeal that decision, FINA also had a reaction to the Lia Thomas case.
The world athletics council have gone for a complete ban on trans-women competing in the women's events if they've been through male puberty. The chances are that most national athletics associations will follow this model.
They've also reduced the maximum allowable testosterone level for the women's events. A change that will mean that many DSD athletes will need to take testosterone reducing drugs for years in order to compete.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...excludes-transgender-women-from-female-events
They've also reduced the maximum allowable testosterone level for the women's events. A change that will mean that many DSD athletes will need to take testosterone reducing drugs for years in order to compete.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...excludes-transgender-women-from-female-events
The thread wasn't inherently offensive but in the General you know the only way is down and it had already started down that route.
If such a discussion is needed then this forum would be the place but perhaps as a more general thread about trans people interactions with cis people (and others) in society would be a better idea? Dating, uni sex/women's toilets and other issues could be discussed maturely. In the general it would have been a car crash.
That's why I'm continuing the discussion here mate. I didn't want to recreate the thread incase it was an issue.
Austin Killips: Transgender cyclist wins UCI event
Austin Killips has become the first transgender athlete to win a UCI women's stage race at the Tour of the Gila in New Mexico.
The 27-year-old American won stage five on Sunday to clinch the overall title, plus the 'Queen of the Mountains' jersey for best climber.
Killips, a transgender woman, thanked fellow riders for their support after "a week of nonsense on the internet", but her win has reignited the debate over transgender athletes competing in female events. American three-time Olympian Inga Thompson said the UCI - cycling's global governing body - was "killing off women's cycling".
Killips - who started racing in 2019 and also competes in cyclocross - finished eight seconds ahead of Mexican rider Marcela Prieto on stage five, and topped the general classification by one minute and 29 seconds.
Austin Killips: Transgender cyclist wins UCI event - BBC Sport
Austin Killips has become the first transgender athlete to win a UCI women's stage race at the Tour of the Gila in New Mexico.
The 27-year-old American won stage five on Sunday to clinch the overall title, plus the 'Queen of the Mountains' jersey for best climber.
Killips, a transgender woman, thanked fellow riders for their support after "a week of nonsense on the internet", but her win has reignited the debate over transgender athletes competing in female events. American three-time Olympian Inga Thompson said the UCI - cycling's global governing body - was "killing off women's cycling".
Killips - who started racing in 2019 and also competes in cyclocross - finished eight seconds ahead of Mexican rider Marcela Prieto on stage five, and topped the general classification by one minute and 29 seconds.
Austin Killips: Transgender cyclist wins UCI event - BBC Sport
EXCLUSIVE 'I haven't cheated, I've not taken somebody's prize money away': Trans woman who ran in female category at London Marathon defends taking part after photos show her competing in New York men’s race just five months ago
Glenique Frank, 54, from Northamptonshire, hit back at claims it was 'wrong and unfair' for her to compete in the female category of Sunday's mass race in London, crossing the line with a time of 4hr 11min 28sec.
During Frank's gruelling 26.2-mile race in the 50-54 age bracket, the personal trainer said she was 'almost in tears' at all the support she received from women around the course.
But she was the subject of criticism by Olympian Mara Yamauchi claimed it was 'wrong and unfair' to allow her to compete in the female category and that 14,000 female runners had 'suffered a worse finish position' because of Frank.
Transgender athlete who ran in female category at London Marathon defends taking part | Daily Mail Online
- Glenique Frank, 54, said she hasn't cheated any other athletes out of a prize
- Olympian Mara Yamauchi said 14,000 women had placings worsened as a result
Glenique Frank, 54, from Northamptonshire, hit back at claims it was 'wrong and unfair' for her to compete in the female category of Sunday's mass race in London, crossing the line with a time of 4hr 11min 28sec.
During Frank's gruelling 26.2-mile race in the 50-54 age bracket, the personal trainer said she was 'almost in tears' at all the support she received from women around the course.
But she was the subject of criticism by Olympian Mara Yamauchi claimed it was 'wrong and unfair' to allow her to compete in the female category and that 14,000 female runners had 'suffered a worse finish position' because of Frank.
Transgender athlete who ran in female category at London Marathon defends taking part | Daily Mail Online
From that article, it seems like her peers are supportive of this? And then there's thisAustin Killips: Transgender cyclist wins UCI event
Austin Killips has become the first transgender athlete to win a UCI women's stage race at the Tour of the Gila in New Mexico.
The 27-year-old American won stage five on Sunday to clinch the overall title, plus the 'Queen of the Mountains' jersey for best climber.
Killips, a transgender woman, thanked fellow riders for their support after "a week of nonsense on the internet", but her win has reignited the debate over transgender athletes competing in female events. American three-time Olympian Inga Thompson said the UCI - cycling's global governing body - was "killing off women's cycling".
Killips - who started racing in 2019 and also competes in cyclocross - finished eight seconds ahead of Mexican rider Marcela Prieto on stage five, and topped the general classification by one minute and 29 seconds.
Austin Killips: Transgender cyclist wins UCI event - BBC Sport
And this is just a complete non-issue, stirred up by someone who seems to have no respect for trans people (not surprising given the article's source). A mass participation event, she ran in the 50-54 age category, and then you have this bigot coming along saying that she 14,000 women 'suffered a worse finishing position'. As if anyone cares about their particular finishing position in such a mass event, outside of the top couple of hundred.
A fellow cyclist retired recently because of the allowance of trans athletes.
And this...
World cycling’s governing body, the UCI, has signalled a shift in its transgender policy just days after Austin Killips sparked controversy by becoming the first transgender athlete to win a UCI women’s stage race. In a notable change in tone, the UCI admitted it had heard the “concerns” of female athletes about unfair competition in the sport, and would be reopening its consultation with a view to reaching a decision in August.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-policy-concerns-reopens-consultation-cycling
British Cycling to ban transgender women from competing in female category
British Cycling is to ban transgender women from the female category of its competitions following a nine-month review and consultation.
Under a new participation policy that the governing body said was "predicated on fairness", such athletes will compete in an 'open category' with men.
The female category will be "for those whose sex was assigned female at birth".
The changes will prevent rider Emily Bridges - the country's highest-profile transgender cyclist - potentially being part of the British women's team.
Last year she was stopped from competing in her first elite women's race by the UCI - cycling's world federation - despite meeting the rules at the time.
British Cycling to ban transgender women from competing in female category - BBC Sport
British Cycling is to ban transgender women from the female category of its competitions following a nine-month review and consultation.
Under a new participation policy that the governing body said was "predicated on fairness", such athletes will compete in an 'open category' with men.
The female category will be "for those whose sex was assigned female at birth".
The changes will prevent rider Emily Bridges - the country's highest-profile transgender cyclist - potentially being part of the British women's team.
Last year she was stopped from competing in her first elite women's race by the UCI - cycling's world federation - despite meeting the rules at the time.
British Cycling to ban transgender women from competing in female category - BBC Sport
This is why a congruent stance on this subject is key. Otherwise you get a Mish mash of policy, misunderstandings, confusion and disappointment.
You also make it a much bigger than needed when you deny something is happening because of your policy. Then people can show only it to happen repeatedly, so you deny deny deny, then quickly change policy when the backlash gets too great.
It is unfair on cis and trans athletes alike and shows a real lack of compassion and intellect.
You also make it a much bigger than needed when you deny something is happening because of your policy. Then people can show only it to happen repeatedly, so you deny deny deny, then quickly change policy when the backlash gets too great.
It is unfair on cis and trans athletes alike and shows a real lack of compassion and intellect.
I'm sure the reactions to this will be nuanced and compassionate.
She touched all the key points, it's about fairness, it's biology, I'm a girl they are not. Bigots will love her.
This idea that biology, genetics, muscle mass across the sexes etc etc has no bearing on sporting integrity is genuinely batshit mental.
I was commenting her comment. When she calls herself the fastest girl, the message is clear and the type of people she's trying to appeal to is also clear. No point in discussing valid concerns when this is the starting point.
I think you have to really be looking for an angle to think she's trying to appeal to a certain type of person.
Her concerns are obvious, we all understand them.
What do you think her goal is in saying she's the fastest girl when she just lost to other girls? My interpretation is that she's saying the other girls aren't really girls.