Im sure an angry SAF is making that very point to a very quiet dressing room as we speak. What happened at Fulham and today will be ironed out
Two bad points dropped
- Thread starter Ole's_toe_poke
- Start date
Relax. Imagine what it would have been like being a West Ham fan these days.
"United are slowing down the game now"
"United are in cruise mode"
"United are playing in second gear"
Dropping off when we have the lead with loads of the game still to go... bound to get to us sometime. Hopefully we stop after this.
"United are in cruise mode"
"United are playing in second gear"
Dropping off when we have the lead with loads of the game still to go... bound to get to us sometime. Hopefully we stop after this.
I think they just caught us off guard a bit, you don't see it happen to us very often at all. Even with 1 goal to go, teams are usually still very wary at the back and we were very threatening going forward, but they just had runners from everywhere - both fullbacks high up, every midfielder looking to get in and around the box, Cahill already there...it just doesn't really happen. Doesn't make it any more forgiveable or easier to take mind.
At the end of the day, a lot of us would've taken a point from Everton. On the balance of chances and play, they really did match us in a lot of ways. It's just drawing that way, looking like we could carve them open over and over again even at 3-1 and them starting to fade away...it feels like a loss, a crushing loss. This is a team who had only scored one goal previously, against Wolves, and who just didn't look like they would score at any time in the game even when they were dominant, they just kept missing...and we lost two in less than 2 minutes and looked like they were going to score a 3rd at the end!
You'll never forget that comeback.
I don't know how you got that from him criticising Evra, Nani and Scholes in the same comment...
Go on, name names
Aye now that I think about it the 2nd goal was a pretty standard goal from a cross, they weren't flooding into our box at that point I don't think, it just sparked them into life.
Yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with losing a two goal lead, does it?
Seems to be me that those statements have more to do with no increasing the lead.
I think they just caught us off guard a bit, you don't see it happen to us very often at all. Even with 1 goal to go, teams are usually still very wary at the back and we were very threatening going forward, but they just had runners from everywhere - both fullbacks high up, every midfielder looking to get in and around the box, Cahill already there...it just doesn't really happen. Doesn't make it any more forgiveable or easier to take mind.
At the end of the day, a lot of us would've taken a point from Everton. On the balance of chances and play, they really did match us in a lot of ways. It's just drawing that way, looking like we could carve them open over and over again even at 3-1 and them starting to fade away...it feels like a loss, a crushing loss. This is a team who had only scored one goal previously, against Wolves, and who just didn't look like they would score at any time in the game even when they were dominant, they just kept missing...and we lost two in less than 2 minutes and looked like they were going to score a 3rd at the end!
You'll never forget that comeback.
I don't know how you got that from him criticising Evra, Nani and Scholes in the same comment...
Go on, name names
Aye now that I think about it the 2nd goal was a pretty standard goal from a cross, they weren't flooding into our box at that point I don't think, it just sparked them into life.
It's not disaster but surely the negative feeling is bigger than the positive when we look at the game's scenario.Each season is different for every team so that's why I think it's pointless to compare results like this.
Everton and Fulham (if the match is watched) is a terrible feeling since it should 6 points.If it's not then it can be seen as 2 good points gained.
Comparing point tallies and results between matches from seasons to seasons don't take into account what actually happened
Yes you are totally right. I'll stop being optimistic and go grab the rope
I'm not denying it's a terrible feeling. Just pointing out that taking a moment to consider how difficult the last two fixtures always are can help put that terrible feeling in perspective. Just a little bit.
Still sucks balls, obviously. fecked up my weekend, good and proper.
It's possible to be optimistic without clutching at straws that aren't there.
Comments like that belong on the propaganda factory that is Pravda TV . Just buy a crappy jumper, practice a Scottish accent, and feck off MUTV studios, and you'd pass for Paddy Crerand with that type of bollocks.
Neville should call it a day... what an embarrassment. He failed to close them down for the crosses that led to their last two goals and when we were 3-2 up and just needed to keep the ball for one minute...he punts one up to their defence giving them the ball immediately and the attack for their third goal. Wish he'd just have a bit of pride and feck off.
Fergie just needs to full stop bringing in this experience crap for the big games. He banged on about a good tight happy squad in the summer, if it's so bright play the bloody youngster you have so much faith in. Rafael is hardly going to learn about this tough games on the bench!!
Has somebody came up with the 'No value in the market' comment again?
I'm not singling out any of our players. Two seasons ago, we won 5 or so games at a score of 1-0. But this time I'm not at all confident watching us defending slender lead. Rooney should've played, and the ball should've stayed more on their half of the pitch, than letting them come towards us.
I'm not singling out any of our players. Two seasons ago, we won 5 or so games at a score of 1-0. But this time I'm not at all confident watching us defending slender lead. Rooney should've played, and the ball should've stayed more on their half of the pitch, than letting them come towards us.
Absolutely no killer instinct. Ok the blame has to fall on our defense but our forwards need to know how shite our defense is and stop relaxing after going 2 goals up. We easily could have been a couple of goals more up today.
When you have 3 over 34 yr olds on the pitch you cant expect the workrate not to drop sooner or later in the game. Not to forget that certain players where having an off day today. Evra performance for example was close to comical.
Squads fine, no value in the market... Its a good point its quite simple the lack of cash is killing us we should have bought at least a world class central midifeld player in the summer. We need Scholes on top form again on Tuesday and I just don't see us not getting a drop towards the end of games like today.
Don't give me that, they are professionals that work on their fitness, stamina, and endurance every day of the week.
The reason we pissed the game away is because we have a casual streak in us at the moment, we slow the game down to walking pace, stroke the ball around without purpose, stop looking for goals, and basically offer our opponents a way back in to games.
A more switched-on, ruthless team would have won 4 from 4 and stuck 5 or 6 on the opposition with some of the great play we've shown. A team like hmm.....Chelsea perhaps
3-1 at Goodison after being a goal down and their keeper making some great saves as well - I'd say we showed pretty good instinct.
As for inviting pressure - we've done that for ages and hit teams on the counter. Very rarely do we get sucker punched like this. Remember the game against Hull, leading 4-1 and they scored 2 and put pressure on us? We were completely comfortable and a couple of good plays undid that.
Personally don't think there is any need for an inquisition. I am completely shattered by the outcome but, we played well, we showed great character in going up 3-1 and got undone by a couple of poor minutes.
At 3-1 and being comfortably in control, we are confident to invite other teams to attack us. That doesn't imply we lack killer instinct, it is normally the smart play, we have confidence in our organization and our defense. This is one of the strangest though. I was worried even at 3-1 and kept saying - okay get to the 85th minute and then I'll breath a sigh of relief.
At that point I wasn't worried about Scholes tiring or Nani going into cruise mode. Even the half chances missed by Berbatov and Nani were out of my mind. I had to leave right after the game finished to take my 4 year old son to football and I was walking in a daze.
It is undoubted 2 points dropped but, overall was a very good performance after a good start by them and 2 minutes or so of the unthinkable.
Hopefully this is the last time we do it this season.
It's going to be a miserable few days.
As for inviting pressure - we've done that for ages and hit teams on the counter. Very rarely do we get sucker punched like this. Remember the game against Hull, leading 4-1 and they scored 2 and put pressure on us? We were completely comfortable and a couple of good plays undid that.
Personally don't think there is any need for an inquisition. I am completely shattered by the outcome but, we played well, we showed great character in going up 3-1 and got undone by a couple of poor minutes.
At 3-1 and being comfortably in control, we are confident to invite other teams to attack us. That doesn't imply we lack killer instinct, it is normally the smart play, we have confidence in our organization and our defense. This is one of the strangest though. I was worried even at 3-1 and kept saying - okay get to the 85th minute and then I'll breath a sigh of relief.
At that point I wasn't worried about Scholes tiring or Nani going into cruise mode. Even the half chances missed by Berbatov and Nani were out of my mind. I had to leave right after the game finished to take my 4 year old son to football and I was walking in a daze.
It is undoubted 2 points dropped but, overall was a very good performance after a good start by them and 2 minutes or so of the unthinkable.
Hopefully this is the last time we do it this season.
It's going to be a miserable few days.
An away draw against Everton is not in itself a bad result. Far from it. The disappointment isnt about the result, its about how that result came about.
However, the result for me highlighted lots of issues that really, a team of Uniteds calibre shouldn't be faced with.
Firstly, our elder players were completely fecked by the end, and that left us woefully exposed at a crucial point of the game. We are far too reliant on the senior pros, and should, as was the case today, we come up against a young fit side with lots of energy, once those players get tired, we fall to bits.
Secondly, we've lost our killer instinct. In the past 3-1 wouldnt be enough, and we'd press further and further forward to a) keep them penned in, and b) aim for a fourth to really kill the game off.
Thirdly, our younger players are vastly inexperienced, and need to get their arses into gear. We cannot afford to carry people. If they are not good enough now, then they should either shape up or ship out. Experience comes with playing the game. Poor play is poor play and all too often poor decisions were made which allowed them to get into us and that ultimately cost us the three points we realistically should have had. That being said, when senior pros have the ball, and they are fighting for an equaliser. Giving them the ball is just plain dumb. You can accept it from an inexperienced player, but not from the club captain and someone with his experience.
Fourthly, we don't have the "bullying" mentality anymore. All too often we allowed Everton to get into us, niggle us, harass us, and that stopped our flowing game. Where we once would be the one giving the digs, the late tackles, to let them know we are there, they were doing it to us. They bullied our midfield for much of the game with little or nothing coming back the other way. We need to be harder and more physical. Football at the end of the day is a physical game. Yes fast flowing football looks great, but sometimes you need to forget that and resort to plan B which is kick your way to a win. All too often we could and should have given them a fecking good kick to let them know whos boss. We didnt boss that game anywhere like we should have done.
Finally, we gave them FAR too much respect. A good team.. yes.. A great team.. No
We could and should have put them to the sword with no mercy, but they were allowed to much ball posession, and most importantly, we seemed to be apprehensive about really playing our best game. We showed them too much respect.
A team like that doesnt often get 3 chances in a game. Lets face it. They arent exactly prolific scorers at the best of times. We backed off and didnt do what we should have done, which is rip their midfield a new arsehole, put their back 4 under so much pressure their midfield had to track back and support them, leaving our midfield the run of the pitch.
An average result, with a poor performance to boot.
I've seen United play better than that and lose, so to be 3-1 up and cruising, its very disappointing that we let them off the hook so easily. Its not they played well. we played awfully in the last 20 minutes or so.
However, the result for me highlighted lots of issues that really, a team of Uniteds calibre shouldn't be faced with.
Firstly, our elder players were completely fecked by the end, and that left us woefully exposed at a crucial point of the game. We are far too reliant on the senior pros, and should, as was the case today, we come up against a young fit side with lots of energy, once those players get tired, we fall to bits.
Secondly, we've lost our killer instinct. In the past 3-1 wouldnt be enough, and we'd press further and further forward to a) keep them penned in, and b) aim for a fourth to really kill the game off.
Thirdly, our younger players are vastly inexperienced, and need to get their arses into gear. We cannot afford to carry people. If they are not good enough now, then they should either shape up or ship out. Experience comes with playing the game. Poor play is poor play and all too often poor decisions were made which allowed them to get into us and that ultimately cost us the three points we realistically should have had. That being said, when senior pros have the ball, and they are fighting for an equaliser. Giving them the ball is just plain dumb. You can accept it from an inexperienced player, but not from the club captain and someone with his experience.
Fourthly, we don't have the "bullying" mentality anymore. All too often we allowed Everton to get into us, niggle us, harass us, and that stopped our flowing game. Where we once would be the one giving the digs, the late tackles, to let them know we are there, they were doing it to us. They bullied our midfield for much of the game with little or nothing coming back the other way. We need to be harder and more physical. Football at the end of the day is a physical game. Yes fast flowing football looks great, but sometimes you need to forget that and resort to plan B which is kick your way to a win. All too often we could and should have given them a fecking good kick to let them know whos boss. We didnt boss that game anywhere like we should have done.
Finally, we gave them FAR too much respect. A good team.. yes.. A great team.. No
We could and should have put them to the sword with no mercy, but they were allowed to much ball posession, and most importantly, we seemed to be apprehensive about really playing our best game. We showed them too much respect.
A team like that doesnt often get 3 chances in a game. Lets face it. They arent exactly prolific scorers at the best of times. We backed off and didnt do what we should have done, which is rip their midfield a new arsehole, put their back 4 under so much pressure their midfield had to track back and support them, leaving our midfield the run of the pitch.
An average result, with a poor performance to boot.
I've seen United play better than that and lose, so to be 3-1 up and cruising, its very disappointing that we let them off the hook so easily. Its not they played well. we played awfully in the last 20 minutes or so.
They are also human. At that age you wonder how the hell they manage to keep on playing with United in the way they do let alone give us quality football for the entire 90 minutes.Don't give me that, they are professionals that work on their fitness, stamina, and endurance every day of the week.
The reason we pissed the game away is because we have a casual streak in us at the moment, we slow the game down to walking pace, stroke the ball around without purpose, stop looking for goals, and basically offer our opponents a way back in to games.
A more switched-on, ruthless team would have won 4 from 4 and stuck 5 or 6 on the opposition with some of the great play we've shown. A team like hmm.....Chelsea perhaps
The defense played well until Evra went off, bar the goal obviously. O'Shea up to that point did really well covering in front of the back four and adding an extra body to the box when everton attacked.
It was a big mistake to change that by taking Evra off and moving O'Shea to left back. It just lead to a bit of disorganisation in the box after them being relatively in control up to that point.
It was a big mistake to change that by taking Evra off and moving O'Shea to left back. It just lead to a bit of disorganisation in the box after them being relatively in control up to that point.
Didn't watch the game, but surprised. Did we take our foot of the gas?
I don't really know how to feel about that result. Before the game if you would have offered a draw, I might have taken it, but seeing as we were 3-1 up with 3 or so minutes to go and we come out with a point just makes it feel all the more like a defeat.
Not playing Rooney was a bit of a shock, but that wouldn't have made much more of a difference. I don't think I've got anything else to add that no one has said already. Disappointed, should have gone for more or at least held on better at the end - but what can you do now, eh?
Can't believe some peoples reactions at the moment though. After the game, my mate turned to me and said, "After that result, we'll be lucky to finish in the top 3 this season." I'm sorry, but what the feck? Can't believe he said it, stupid dick. Also claimed we should sell Rooney because "if he can't play in a game like that what use is he going to be later on in the season or in the CL." Needless to say I called him a thick cnut and haven't spoken to him since.
Roll on Tuesday I say and then next weekend - a much bigger game which I am expecting a win from. Hopefully not taking the foot off the pedal.
Not playing Rooney was a bit of a shock, but that wouldn't have made much more of a difference. I don't think I've got anything else to add that no one has said already. Disappointed, should have gone for more or at least held on better at the end - but what can you do now, eh?
Can't believe some peoples reactions at the moment though. After the game, my mate turned to me and said, "After that result, we'll be lucky to finish in the top 3 this season." I'm sorry, but what the feck? Can't believe he said it, stupid dick. Also claimed we should sell Rooney because "if he can't play in a game like that what use is he going to be later on in the season or in the CL." Needless to say I called him a thick cnut and haven't spoken to him since.
Roll on Tuesday I say and then next weekend - a much bigger game which I am expecting a win from. Hopefully not taking the foot off the pedal.
if fergie was dissapointed with fulham, he'll be giving the riot act after this. especially as the team just did the same thing the last match. Fergie probably tore some of the lads to shreds more than he has over the last 4-5 years.
The local Thought Police may soon pound on that, fred.
i dont begrudge fulham their point, they were good value for it, we went ahead through an own goal and the penalty was soft imo - they deserved to level
we battered everton 2nd half and shouldve been out of sight, a ridiculous collapse - very un-united like and i fully expect fergie to rip them to shreds over it - rangers beware
we battered everton 2nd half and shouldve been out of sight, a ridiculous collapse - very un-united like and i fully expect fergie to rip them to shreds over it - rangers beware
It was his first game in how long?
It's you that is the embarrasment and you that should just feck off.
I just finished watching the match I recorded it
fecking Hell
fecking Hell
It's one thing I'll never understand, all this "it was a fair result, we didn't deserve".Does it really matter whether we deserved to win or not ? I personally think it even feels better
Yeah, he should just feck off. fecking cnut thinking he can contribute to the cause. Like we care
Go TEAM!Exactly. It's bollocks. Helps people deal with the disappointment obviously but it's bollocks all the same.
Exactly, whether we deserved to win or not, we were 2-1 up with a penalty with 5 minutes on the clock. Ridiculous how we blew that.
Today was the same except a million times more disgusting and disappointing.
The mark of a champion team in any sport is to win when your not playing your best. We can't even win when we play well at the moment
i fully expect an investigation into match fixing and unusual betting practices because i just cant understand how this result could happen.
I still cannot believe that bloody happened! That's what we do to teams, I do not appreciate that being done to us. Chelsea on the other hand look like a winning machine. To be fair this is still a better start then last few seasons, also we got Fulham and Everton away out of the way and we bettered both results compared to last season. The only complaint is we could have and bloody hell SHOULD have won both.
It was a kick in the balls but when your lucks not in it's not in. I felt we were very good today. Two completely stupid minutes don't change that. I think we've had difficult fixtures and today we played well for the most part. We just need to hammer rangers and because the performance deserved a win I think
Chelsea have been impressive but haven't played anyone yet. They have played West Brom, Wigan, Stoke and West Ham.
All of whom are in the bottom 5.
Yea but that is still a very impressive start, that cannot hurt.
I agree it's been a very good start. I'm not denying that. But as i've said in another thread, it's a marathon and not a sprint. We're up in arms at throwing points away but when you take a step back and look at the cold hard facts, we've taken a point at both Craven Cottage and Goodison Park. Something we haven't done for the last 2 years. I think...?
I thought we were unlucky. Howard was in stupidly good form today and 2 of their goals were fairly lucky in where the ball bounced to. Still perhaps should have done better in playing the game out but thats football. We score the penalty against Fulham, we win. The ball deflects away for Everton's equalizer, we win and everyone is talking about how great we were.
Even in a marathon I would rather have a good start.