Uighurs seek genocide charges against Beijing

[The Firestarter]

It’s not by accident.

Not sure what you mean by that. It almost sounds like you imply Oliver is part of a conspiracy here.

 

[Florida Man]

Not sure what you mean by that. It almost sounds like you imply Oliver is part of a conspiracy here.

I was referring to the US media in general deliberately leaving out certain pieces of info. Oliver’s show is just another one that did.

 

[Gehrman]

We might as well scrap the whole idea of human rights as no country has a impeccable historical record.

 

[The Firestarter]

I was referring to the US media in general deliberately leaving out certain pieces of info. Oliver’s show is just another one that did.

What certain piece do you consider most pertinent here?

 

[Gehrman]

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/30/...zation-women-human-rights-intl-hnk/index.html

 

[Florida Man]

What certain piece do you consider most pertinent here?

The lack of reporting of the context of the video I posted before that.

 

[hmchan]

China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53650246

 

[Gehrman]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d2ce50-f32b-11ea-8025-5d3489768ac8_story.html

 

[Rob]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d2ce50-f32b-11ea-8025-5d3489768ac8_story.html

What a depressing read.

 

[shamans]

Give them an independent nation of provincial autonomy

 

[FireballXL5]

Covid: Daily Mail's NHS masks came from Uighur factory in China

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55088995

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Saw this on the BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/nz0g306v8c/china-tainted-cotton

Forced labour in Chinese cotton plantations and factories being used along side re-education centers for the Uighurs. Pretty dark shit if you ask me.

 

[4bars]

I truely believe that China is capable to do this and the argumentation seems plausible, but for the amount of people that we are talking that they are in these reeducation camps (millions) and so many news and articles, I thought that by now we would have much more solid proofs (pictures, videos, witnesses, way to check real numbers, etc...)

 

[harms]

I truely believe that China is capable to do this and the argumentation seems plausible, but for the amount of people that we are talking that they are in these reeducation camps (millions) and so many news and articles, I thought that by now we would have much more solid proofs (pictures, videos, witnesses, way to check real numbers, etc...)

What? There are tons of pictures, videos, witnesses etc.

 

[Cheimoon]

What? There are tons of pictures, videos, witnesses etc.

Exactly. There are various recordings in the article itself. But everything is so tightly controlled over there, that reporters can't go talk to people or get the perfect and ideal footage. That's why finding documentation on the processes is so valuable.

 

[RedBanker]

They should silently convert and survive. Just like Kashmiri Pandits converted to Islam under threat of life in the 1990s.

 

[4bars]

What? There are tons of pictures, videos, witnesses etc.

I passed from believing it blindly that this was happening because...China, to see that the situation never explode and they keep repeting over and over. At least thousands would be able to escape from that situation and explain 1st hand what is going on. Groups of it. We are talking of millions directly aftected and many more indirectly. It should be more proof in my opinion. I remember the pictures of Colin Powell regarding the weapons of mass destruction i Iraq with detailed satellite pictures of buildings and names, etc..

 

[Fluctuation0161]

We might as well scrap the whole idea of human rights as no country has a impeccable historical record.

I always wondered how human progress would end. With attitudes like this, it seems.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

They should silently convert and survive. Just like Kashmiri Pandits converted to Islam under threat of life in the 1990s.

Yes, because 2 wrongs make a right?

 

[RedBanker]

Yes, because 2 wrongs make a right?

Those who stayed back were either massacred or converted and survived (the majority who stayed back). The third option is exodus. There is not going to be any external help. Reality and ideals are different unfortunately. I think the key here is survival. If you have better options please help them.

 

[Gehrman]

I always wondered how human progress would end. With attitudes like this, it seems.

I hope you noticed that this post was a sarcastic reponse to the attitude that apparently it's wrong for western countries to express concern for the situation of the Uighurs because the west has some way or another in the past also broken human rights.

 

[harms]

I passed from believing it blindly that this was happening because...China, to see that the situation never explode and they keep repeting over and over. At least thousands would be able to escape from that situation and explain 1st hand what is going on. Groups of it. We are talking of millions directly aftected and many more indirectly. It should be more proof in my opinion. I remember the pictures of Colin Powell regarding the weapons of mass destruction i Iraq with detailed satellite pictures of buildings and names, etc..

What exactly do you not believe in? There are many survivors who had talked about their experience. But, more importantly, Chine doesn't deny that the camps exist, they've even allowed western journalists in some of them, they just insist that those are schools whose "students" are kinda mandatory volunteers. China officials explain on camera that they do so to people without any trials, because they don't punish criminals, but rather trying to prevent future crime (Total Recall much?).

The comparison with Iraq is hardly appropriate. US obviously had interests there — with China, no global force actually wants to mention it, because they're too reliant on China, politically and economically. Well, outside Turkey that is. Sadly, no one gains anything from freeing uighurs, hence why it's mostly journalists that try to compile every bit of available information about this.

 

[2mufc0]

I passed from believing it blindly that this was happening because...China, to see that the situation never explode and they keep repeting over and over. At least thousands would be able to escape from that situation and explain 1st hand what is going on. Groups of it. We are talking of millions directly aftected and many more indirectly. It should be more proof in my opinion. I remember the pictures of Colin Powell regarding the weapons of mass destruction i Iraq with detailed satellite pictures of buildings and names, etc..

There have been people who have escaped talking about it. It looks like you may need to do a bit more research about the issue, most of your questions can be answered with a Google search.

 

[4bars]

What exactly do you not believe in? There are many survivors who had talked about their experience. But, more importantly, Chine doesn't deny that the camps exist, they've even allowed western journalists in some of them, they just insist that those are schools whose "students" are kinda mandatory volunteers. China officials explain on camera that they do so to people without any trials, because they don't punish criminals, but rather trying to prevent future crime (Total Recall much?).

The comparison with Iraq is hardly appropriate. US obviously had interests there — with China, no global force actually wants to mention it, because they're too reliant on China, politically and economically. Well, outside Turkey that is. Sadly, no one gains anything from freeing uighurs, hence why it's mostly journalists that try to compile every bit of available information about this.

Thats the problem, that so far we have to "believe" in it, even you. I want more blatant facts. True that the US had interest on Iraq, but the same applies to the uighurs. If it would be more clear proofs, it would be a huge blow for China in front of the international community and will further the cause for US in this new Cold war that it seems is starting the build up

There have been people who have escaped talking about it. It looks like you may need to do a bit more research about the issue, most of your questions can be answered with a Google search.

Sure there is more research to be done, always. But I still need more hard proof to transition from "believe" to be 100% sure

 

[Cheimoon]

Thats the problem, that so far we have to "believe" in it, even you. I want more blatant facts. True that the US had interest on Iraq, but the same applies to the uighurs. If it would be more clear proofs, it would be a huge blow for China in front of the international community and will further the cause for US in this new Cold war that it seems is starting the build up

As for the general situation, there are statements from the Chinese that confirm everything apart from the idea that these people are not participating voluntarily, and there is video and photo footage from journalists. Then to see it's not voluntary, there have been data leaks exposing documents explaining China's operations, and Harms is referring to statements from escaped individuals. (Given the level of control China exert, you can't that many individuals to come out.)

So I'm not sure what else you are looking for. To me, what you're saying rather shows the lack of sustained attention for the Uighur cause in the media - which goes back to @harms's point that countries have too little interest in criticizing China on this (or any) point.

 

[4bars]

As for the general situation, there are statements from the Chinese that confirm everything apart from the idea that these people are not participating voluntarily, and there is video and photo footage from journalists. Then to see it's not voluntary, there have been data leaks exposing documents explaining China's operations, and Harms is referring to statements from escaped individuals. (Given the level of control China exert, you can't that many individuals to come out.)

So I'm not sure what else you are looking for. To me, what you're saying rather shows the lack of sustained attention for the Uighur cause in the media - which goes back to @harms's point that countries have too little interest in criticizing China on this (or any) point.

I guess I got triggered for the last BBC article. They speak about cotton fields that they recognized they always existed before. They now say that they are forced to go there with little proof. They put pictures of people picking cotton, when is just picking cotton most likely in another place or another time. Then the typical satellite pictures with names that I have seen other times.

As I said I believe that something is happening there, but I would like to see more hard proof (and of course more international action that will never happen). But poor articles like that and many others doesn't help on my "believe" and I am becoming more skeptic to up to which extend is true and what is not true

I Miss a couple of good pieces of good journalism, and as you and @harms said I probably did not research well enough. But I find always short and poor documented articles that could be easily target as western propaganda against the chinese regime

 

[maniak]

But I find always short and poor documented articles that could be easily target as western propaganda against the chinese regime

China violates humans rights so much that you don't really need propaganda.

 

[Cheimoon]

I guess I got triggered for the last BBC article. They speak about cotton fields that they recognized they always existed before. They now say that they are forced to go there with little proof. They put pictures of people picking cotton, when is just picking cotton most likely in another place or another time. Then the typical satellite pictures with names that I have seen other times.

As I said I believe that something is happening there, but I would like to see more hard proof (and of course more international action that will never happen). But poor articles like that and many others doesn't help on my "believe" and I am becoming more skeptic to up to which extend is true and what is not true

I Miss a couple of good pieces of good journalism, and as you and @harms said I probably did not research well enough. But I find always short and poor documented articles that could be easily target as western propaganda against the chinese regime

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I tends to be a little piecemeal and interpretative. On the other hand, I don't know what the western agenda would be. All kinds of things could be pointed out against China (for example the general treatment of factory workers; like those anti-suicide nets), but it doesn't get all that much attention, apart from the occasional media flare-up. If there is indeed an anti-Chinese propaganda campaign, it is somehow both very international (I see these reports in Dutch, Canadian, and UK media) and very random and uncoordinated. That would be a rare combination, I'd think, while there is so much that could be pointed out if China were in every aspect held up against western standards.

 

[4bars]

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I tends to be a little piecemeal and interpretative. On the other hand, I don't know what the western agenda would be. All kinds of things could be pointed out against China (for example the general treatment of factory workers; like those anti-suicide nets), but it doesn't get all that much attention, apart from the occasional media flare-up. If there is indeed an anti-Chinese propaganda campaign, it is somehow both very international (I see these reports in Dutch, Canadian, and UK media) and very random and uncoordinated. That would be a rare combination, I'd think, while there is so much that could be pointed out if China were in every aspect held up against western standards.

Not to exempt China at all of what they do and had done during decades, but that same treatment was done before and the west kept pouring money over there to try to get a foot inside the country because it supposed +1 billion consumers and the cheap supply chain (exactly for that same reason of exploiting the chinese workers). Other countries have it even worse (coltan in congo, blood diamonds in africa, etc...) but now that China is a menace forthe US hegemon and the west in general, there is an obvious agenda. And frankly, is for the best that it receive this scrutiny (even because and agenda), but at the same time it makes me more skeptical on what is true and what is a western agenda. Probably something in between and my gut tells me is more on the spectrum that China does all that. But pieces as that article (and many more that we are swamped with) makes me think that there is an agenda and doubts appears.

Thats all and I will not go around on this point (pointless) again. As you had been saying, more research to be done

 

[Cheimoon]

Not to exempt China at all of what they do and had done during decades, but that same treatment was done before and the west kept pouring money over there to try to get a foot inside the country because it supposed +1 billion consumers and the cheap supply chain (exactly for that same reason of exploiting the chinese workers). Other countries have it even worse (coltan in congo, blood diamonds in africa, etc...) but now that China is a menace forthe US hegemon and the west in general, there is an obvious agenda. And frankly, is for the best that it receive this scrutiny (even because and agenda), but at the same time it makes me more skeptical on what is true and what is a western agenda. Probably something in between and my gut tells me is more on the spectrum that China does all that. But pieces as that article (and many more that we are swamped with) makes me think that there is an agenda and doubts appears.

Thats all and I will not go around on this point (pointless) again. As you had been saying, more research to be done

Well, maybe. I just don't see it here. I think the increased scrutiny is a logical result of China having become a much bigger force globally, so there's more interest. Maybe I'm missing something, but I think of interest in issues much more cynically (where's the public interest; not in blood diamonds, for example), than in terms of agendas (not that they don't exist though).

 

[Dirty Schwein]

I've been reading about this for a while and every word I read I feel more and more guilty that this is happening and no one is doing anything about it. In fact, companies like Nike, Adidas, Apple, Coke, Patagonia etc are encouraging it apparently. I've stopped using these brands but that's less than a drop in the ocean in the grand scheme of things.

Are there any charities or something I can donate to?

I really feel useless.

 

[4bars]

I've been reading about this for a while and every word I read I feel more and more guilty that this is happening and no one is doing anything about it. In fact, companies like Nike, Adidas, Apple, Coke, Patagonia etc are encouraging it apparently. I've stopped using these brands but that's less than a drop in the ocean in the grand scheme of things.

Are there any charities or something I can donate to?

I really feel useless.

I doubt there are charities because there is nothing official. Be a responsible consumer is the best you can do, always. your drop in the ocean joints other drops and helps to create new responsible companies and eventually creates a shift on the market.

 

[VorZakone]

So what's the latest on this situation? What's really going on?

 

[Adisa]

The Chinese built factories next to the camps for forced labour.
Disgusting government.

 

[2cents]

This kind of went under the radar recently:

US removes group condemned by China from ‘terror’ list
The faction is regularly blamed by China to justify its harsh crackdown in the Muslim-majority Xinjiang region.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/11/7/us-removes-group-condemned-by-china-from-terror-list

 

[Dumbstar]

It's clearly a political one up man ship by the US but at least it's something to very slightly ease the foot off the throat of Uighars.

 

[Gehrman]

China proudly proclaiming that sterilizing Uighurs makes them more happy and independent.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[VorZakone]

China proudly proclaiming that sterilizing Uighurs makes them more happy and independent.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Fecking hell.

 

[Vitro]

China proudly proclaiming that sterilizing Uighurs makes them more happy and independent.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

But I thought it was all Western propaganda?

 

[Dumbstar]

Shiieeeet. They just admitted to everything? That tweet will disappear in... hopefully many screenshots already grabbed.