Feel like pure shit just want Bailly back
2
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Clean sheets
- 17
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 4
- Status
Struggling to see how the 2nd goal is his fault. He has to go for that header. Not going for it would be lapse defending. The idea he should be leaving that is why Maguire has cost us 3 goals by letting the ball go across his body.
Even after the header you see him telling Maguire to get out and get back in shape. Then when the ball gets to James Lindelof tries to get at him and block it. people clutching at straws on that one. If anything I was dissapointed with Rashford and Bruno for that watching people make runs in to dangerous positions and doing nothing about it. Just passing the responsibility off to other people.
Even after the header you see him telling Maguire to get out and get back in shape. Then when the ball gets to James Lindelof tries to get at him and block it. people clutching at straws on that one. If anything I was dissapointed with Rashford and Bruno for that watching people make runs in to dangerous positions and doing nothing about it. Just passing the responsibility off to other people.
They both tell each other. Lindelof tells Maguire to go wide passing his man onto him first which he does and Maguire tells Lindelof to go out the middle, which is where the goal comes from with James having far too much room in our penalty area to shoot.
The Inspector Clouseau of defenders. He'll probably miss the next game because a piano fell on him.
Lindelof doesn’t pass his man on to him. He tells Harry to get out and on Calvert Lewin who is in the space Harry should be. Harry was taken out of position briefly due to his efforts in the first phase. Questionable wether they should be swapping sides there and Lindelof go to Calvert Lewin or stick with Richarlison. If anything looks like Maguire is saying ok you got him then.
Lewin then drags Maguire away because Shaw had to go out and meet Dacoure as Rashford just watched him run across the box and did nothing , which has now creates a pocket of space for James to go in to as he’s just left Fernandes. Fred then tries along with Lindelof to plug the gap.
At no point of that is any of that the fault of Lindelof.
I think we need a better CB but I just don’t see where we are really going to get one from, because question marks on Harry aside, Lindelof, Bailly and Tuanzebe probably aren’t and have shown they aren’t top level and neither has Maguire honestly.
I honestly don't see why he gets so much blame - he's not great but when they play together, Maguire almost always looks worse, in my opinion. Yes Maguire looked good next to Bailly, but I remember Lindelof looking very good next to Tuanzebe in one game (was it the PSG game?) What isn't up for debate is how awful the two of them are together. It beggars belief that the higher-ups chose not to upgrade in the January market.
You mean the goal disallowed for offside?
The lesser issue is that he can be bullied in aerial duel sometimes.
The biggest issue is that he is really not good in reading the game. The first goal we conceded yesterday was the result of that. On our right midfield area, Everton outnumbered us in counter press. Rather than sensing the potential danger that we could lose the ball there and they have a player waiting upper the field for channel run, and protecting the space of the space behind AWB, he chose to commit himself to press. Maguire then just unable to match Calvert-Lewin's speed. The second goal conceded is also similar that he didn’t realize Everton’s system change to exploit our right side.
i know Ole’s tactics yesterday is to ask CBs to make forward ball-carrying run to shake off Everton’d man marking in the midfield. But scenario changes in the game, you have to be prepared to adjust yourself to it. In this sense, he is not good enough to be manutd’d starting CB. I think this is the reason we conceded some shocking goals when we dominate everything and the opponents have a sudden counter opportunity.
The biggest issue is that he is really not good in reading the game. The first goal we conceded yesterday was the result of that. On our right midfield area, Everton outnumbered us in counter press. Rather than sensing the potential danger that we could lose the ball there and they have a player waiting upper the field for channel run, and protecting the space of the space behind AWB, he chose to commit himself to press. Maguire then just unable to match Calvert-Lewin's speed. The second goal conceded is also similar that he didn’t realize Everton’s system change to exploit our right side.
i know Ole’s tactics yesterday is to ask CBs to make forward ball-carrying run to shake off Everton’d man marking in the midfield. But scenario changes in the game, you have to be prepared to adjust yourself to it. In this sense, he is not good enough to be manutd’d starting CB. I think this is the reason we conceded some shocking goals when we dominate everything and the opponents have a sudden counter opportunity.
That’s what we do. We just give new contracts to old signings that haven’t worked out instead and kick the can down the road and pray things sort themselves out. Lindelof isn’t a bad player but that partnership is a comedy duo at this stage. They don’t compliment each other, how much more proof do we need and then you’ve the gk throwing away the game on top of it. That’s 140 million and at least half a million a weeks wages worth of defence there. We are spending a lot but doubling down on the wrong players.
It still needed defending until a ref calls it. Play to the whistle and all that
Maguire lindelof and ddg must look at each other and be thinking the other one is constantly letting me down here when will the manager or owners change things around and who’s getting the sack here. When is the next inevitable costly mistake coming. There’s no confidence or trust there. A new GK and a fit Bailly (read new signing here) and we are good to go. No hope of us doing that though. It’ll be new contracts all round no doubt when the time comes to make a decision
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Tbf, lindelof-Maguire partnership is good enough when playing against many teams because both are very comfortable to carry the ball. In this sense, they compliment each other very well.
The problem is when we play against the teams playing direct. Lindelof is not quick enough nor able to read game. It often ended up with that the other has to do extreme repositioning to cover the huge space left by one. Thus, with the panic bomb of DDG, this partnership is not complimenting each other at all against that type of teams, such as Everton, RBR, etc.
I think its mostly on DDG yesterday anyway. I have no problem with Everton’s second goal, it was a good hit. The other 2 were the most spineless and unprofessional play you’ll ever see though. Highest earner in the team, in his position in the world even and not an ounce of leadership or desire from him. Just another symptom of the malaise that’s grown in the club post Fergie. No accountability whatsoever. Here have a new contract!
No defense of DDG at all. Similar to so many soft acts DDG did, he is the panic bomb and affect the whole team. The first and the third goals we conceded against Everton are so shocking. That’s what we want our goal keeper standing out strong. The first goal has been discussed a lot on his role. The third does not seem mentioned that much. He had the goal kick with about 20 seconds remaining for the minimum 4 min injury time. Rather than kick it as far as possible to either side, he kicked it the the center of pitch. What did he think in mind to do so? We lost the aerial duel and Tuanzebe fouled when trying to win the second ball and gave away the free kick. So comical. We can also play to CBs to have the possession to waste the rest of game time. It’s simply a really poor idea which was caught badly.
So, no defense of DDG at all.
However, the first two goals conceded all started from our right channel completely exploited by Everton’s change of system to target that side. Apparently, Ancelotte is a wonderful tactician. But, Lindelof’s lack of game reading and scenario awareness are shown so clearly for those two scenarios, actually not only that two, in that period (the beginning of the second half), they created that kind of scenarios on our right several times. It really pissed me off after conceding the first, Lindelof still didn’t know what’s happening.
yeah I agree with you. I’m still seething today to be honest. I try not to post too much during or after a match commenting on individual errors. These things even out over a season or even two but we are so so slow to fix things from above when they aren’t working.
The result is so shocking to absorb for everyone. Not only fans, but we can imagine how the players have been feeling when they put in such a convincing performance to dominate our traditional hard opponent Everton in every area and concede almost every time they created one chance and not chances but scenarios.
I hope Ole to make the bold call. We cannot hinder our development as a team by these shocking moments just after for two months we seem having already moved beyond those.
A key issue with the Maguire, Lindelof and DDG spine is the lack of leadership among that trio, easily seen in the panic shown late on in tight games.
He points in the direction Maguire is in and the direction his man runs onto Maguire. So no he clearly doesnt tell him to go out
Thanks for completely missing and ignoring all my points. Are you telling me that newspaper ratings is what I should basing my assessment of Lindelof on?
Look at the incredibly amount of posts in Redcafe, which provides a much wider breath of judgement spanning from worst to good (hyperbole to balanced) and the general consensus is that Lindelof is an average defender with no outstanding ability. There is nobody that can genuinely say, 'Lindelof is elite at reading the game', 'Lindelof can be consistently dominant', 'Lindelof has the pace of Shaw, Lindelof dictates play from the back, Lindelof shuts down his 1 vs 1 duels' etc.
It's not about Lindelof being 'not bad', it's about him not being good enough to affect the game.
Lindelofs man is Richarlison, becuase Harry’s attempt to get that first header takes him out of position behind Lindelof. Shaw who was covering Lewin has to leave to get to Dacoure, Lewin is left in Harry’s area unmarked. Lindelof points to the space Harry has to get back in to. Harry points back at Lindelof towards Richarlison.
I’m still not seeing how this goal is Lindelofs fault or how people can even think it is.
If anything Rashford needs to track Dacoure. Bruno has to see that James is walking into and in acres of space and do something to get at him instead of strolling back. There is a collection of errors there but none of them Lindelofs.
Haha this is actually quite funny. Newspapers have been giving Lindelof high ratings, but somehow you say it’s worth nothing but instead we should look at redcafe posts...?! But ok, let’s look at redcafe and see if the general consensus is that he is the weak link and so much worse than “his peers”.
Redcafe average ratings this season:
Shaw 6.1
Lindelof 6.0
Maguire 5.9
AWB 5.8
Oops.
Again you've ignored my point. Redcafe posts, which are full of detail, context and discussion is not equal to a numbered rating. Does that rating mean Lindelof is comfortably our 2nd best defender? Feck no, he is the easily the weakest link there and the most easily replaceable.
I don't know about others but I've never used the rating system and I'd assume that may be of many here.
Original point being and one that still stands is that Lindelof is not good enough with no outstanding ability to justify these meek performances.
Please respond, tell me one thing that Lindelof actually excels in and you could say we can reliably count on him as a proactive force in a game? That is the bare minimum sign of the quality of a player that almost everyone in the squad possesses.
[On a side note, just like the number of responses to threads as we able to see other posters' ratings of players?]
edit: I don't really care for other pundit's opinions because it's usually all over the place but look at what Scholes has to say.
https://www.caughtoffside.com/2021/02/07/man-united-news-scholes-slams-lindelof/
Gary Neville said it several times in commentary and in previous games. Is there an agenda from them? No, when there's smoke there's fire.
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This. It's so obvious it's terrifying.
I just can't stand Lindelof, the ice man(aka the soft bastrd). He passes responsibility on the ball over to Maguire all the time. He looks scared and always goes safe, no risk or vision. He's not aggressive and lacks pace. I think Bailly and Maguire have shown this, the line is much deeper when Lindelof plays. Building it out from the back doesn't work. I don't think he's a bad player but I just think it's him or Maguire, never both. We have conceeded a serious amount of goals and I've had enough of him. He backs of players and doesn't like to commit. This is fine in other leagues but not in the prem. He reads the game well enough but time to face it. Lindelof is not going to be in the pairing that wins a major trophy.
I've never said he is our best or second best defender. I wrote that if you look at his ratings in the newspapers, they are rather high because he has performed well this season. If you look at the ratings at Redcafe, you can also see that he got higher ratings than Maguire and AWB. Doesn't mean he is better than them, but over the season, people have been more satisfied with him than the ones with lower ratings.
As example of "outstandning ability" you say Luke Shaw's "all around high ability". To not make you upset, I will use terms you use yourself, and say that Lindelof's has had an "all around high ability", because that fits the description of him as well. On top of that, he has been solid over the season: He has had a few "poor to ok" matches, but no disaster matches, and good to very good in most matches. That is also why he has got so high ratings by the newspapers (lately he has been most of the time 6.8-7.5 /10 as an average).
High ability with what? He's played some nice long balls and had a nice run this weekend. So some ability on the ball. But in defence? Come on
I'm not sure if you talk about Luke Shaw or Lindelof?High ability with what? He's played some nice long balls and had a nice run this weekend. So some ability on the ball. But in defence? Come on
Both Shaw and Lindelof have had good runs in PL lately. Lindelof was good in his latest matches before yesterday: City, Sheffield United, Leeds, Liverpool, Arsenal, and also Southampton. And as discussed this was mirrored in his ratings in the papers where he has got an average ratings between 6.8-7.5/10.
And yes, good defensively. Clean sheet vs City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Southampton. I think most people would agree he was good defensively. (Do you really think he was poor defensively in those matches?)
Shaw actually has the quality to be a top fullback. Lindelof is a decent CB and nothing more, and too meek to every really be a proper United CB.
Don't think he was that bad against Everton, bar the shit clearance in the first half where Richarlison had an open goal opportunity. De Gea and Maguire were much worse.
Lindelof is on the low side in every defensive aspect other than positioning, but with his positioning he also takes up some deep and reactive positions rather than confronting danger or trying to stop things before they progress - so that can be weak too in the right circumstances, like when James receives the ball and has time to control it in our box and slot it home because our CBs arent trying to be aggressive and commanding in our own box.
I have seen signs that he has improved in some aspects of defending, but when you see it just once every 3 or 4 matches then its still on the low side. Examples being some of the things I've posted about in the past few weeks, like when I was happy to see Lindelof knowingly conceeded a foul when the opponent was breaking against us because it allowed us to get back into position. But then he will not do it the next few games, so its like a one off. He's done the same with some tougher tackling, I've seen him put in a more aggressive tackle at times and you think great he's starting to enjoy actual defending, but then the next couple of matches he's back to normal. He's on the low side because he does these things a small amount accumulatively over a period of time. Not because he is incapable and never does them. Its just once in a blue moon every 400 minutes or something.
Completely agree. And I think we can add our central midfielders in that equation. We lack a consistent and disciplined defensive midfielder who can help to unload the workload for our defenders, and cover whenever one of them are trapped up the field. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that the likes of Matic, McTominay, Fred and Pogba have had a bad season, but there is not much continuity to build a solid defensive base upon.
We can buy all the attackers in the world, but if we don't sort out the defensive organisation and create a unit down there, we won't be consistent over a full season.
I understand what you mean. I personally feel he defends and play using his strengths he is comfortable with most of the time. I have for a long time thought he needs to be able to switch on his aggressive side more often. It is often good with a calm CB. If he had thrown himself to the ground every time there was a shot, he would never had blocked Firminos shot as example. But here are times when he needs to be more aggressive. He has shown that he can be aggressive, why doesn't he show it more often. He has shown he can hit very good long balls, why doesn't he do it more often? He is good at breaking through with the ball, but seldom does it. All these things have the risk to fail. He is often last man and missing a tackle can be a disaster. Long balls and breaking through have the risk to lose possession. In general he plays it safe, imo too safe.
I think he has been very good lately except the last one, but still he was not a disaster as some make out.
Always drives me crazy when people compare Lindelof and Maguire, one is an absolute tosser failing to impose on the game defensively and offensively, super weak physically and mentally too, the other has an odd mistake in him but but let´s face it it´s hard to play next to a trainwreck of a player like Lindelof and with a zero presence keeper like DDG, sometimes alo with nexto no protection in midfield when we play Matic and pogba together. When we finally shift the swede out absolutely no other top team will be after him, He´s so bad he wouldn´t play in any of the top 15 teams in the Prem. Really player to player he would come second. Can´t believe he got 100 games for us and haven´t improved a little bit. It´s not as if he was signed as a complete youngster as well. Give 100 first team games to Teden Mengi and he will not a) make as many mistakes as Lindelof b) be more proactive and develop into a much better player.
Really wasintg so much time on players like him and Darmian makes you wonder people want to play for titles wheras we end up being happy making top4. The club should do our best to bring in another top CB because Bailly simply can´t stay fit and seeing Lindelof in matchday squad let alone starting him is making me sick. Such a nothing player.
Im intrigued as to what you expect them to do with this situation. Be shouting at Bruno to get back and cover him having had their backs to it waiting on the first ball in. Then turning to reorganise themselves and see where doucore is?
Being quick to react to an attacker receiving the ball at their feet and charging the shot so its difficult. Also Lindelof had time to move out into the middle as Maguire had told him and that didnt happen, so he was further away from the action
For me he is Liam Miller of our defence.
Don't mean to be rude but he doesn't even look like a professional footballer never mind a central half good enough to be first choice for MUFC.
No disrespect intended.
No disrespect intended.
The subsequent replies after your post sums up what other people think.Shaw has plenty of deficiencies and is far from perfect but I gave him that assessment because he has shown top level athletic/physical attributes on top of his reading of the game. Recovery pace, dribbling, touch, 1 vs 1, positioning at the back post, covering, heading, passing etc. Solid 7 to 8 in each catagory (when on form)
Lindelof has an all around consistent quality, I'll give you that but at a 6/10 at most with very little influence on the game other than being a body on the field.
It's almost painful to see you fully acknowledge and understand what it means to be a good player with influence yet be blind in your denial that Lindelof simply does not meet those requirements.
Of course it's good to be calim, of course it's good not to be overly aggressive and be risk adverse. However, you're conflating these aspects with Lindelof's lack of assertiveness as a positive attribute. You're actively giving him massive benefit of the doubt and elevating something that isn't there.
He's not dealing with Messi in the channels, he's not dealing with a peak Barca/City/Liverpool high press so why make it out like 'he has this ability, even if he shows it once a moment every 3 games, so therefore he's a class player'?
Again the problem is that even when he's not a 'disaster' (as if that's a good barometer to jugde a player) he doesn't do enough to influence the game proactively.
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