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2021-22 Performances


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andersj

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Actually I’m not, we have a team of mods for that

I fail to see how any of the criticisms I have for Lindelof (listed above) or any of the tongue in cheek posts are anything like some of the vile posts we’ve had for Jones, James and Lingard. They are nothing alike.

now jog on for your beer
I might be wrong, but I think quite a few might have misunderstood then. I know I did. The combination of negative comments (fair or not), banter and amount of them felt very hostile. A bit of a witch hunt, maybe.

It is probably just us, and I guess English humour/banter sometimes goes over my head. Maybe that is the case for a few others aswell? Partly language, partly culture. Obviously that is our responsibility being on an English forum.

At the same time, it is a global club with players from all over the world. And banter and humour is not always obvious in text, even in our first language.
 

andersj

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Dont get why people want to play him as a DM. Playing with three at the back seems so much smarter.
 

golden_blunder

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I’ve decided, since it makes no difference, to not post in this thread again this season. So nobody tag me or reply to me publicly
 

golden_blunder

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I might be wrong, but I think quite a few might have misunderstood then. I know I did. The combination of negative comments (fair or not), banter and amount of them felt very hostile. A bit of a witch hunt, maybe.

It is probably just us, and I guess English humour/banter sometimes goes over my head. Maybe that is the case for a few others aswell? Partly language, partly culture. Obviously that is our responsibility being on an English forum.

At the same time, it is a global club with players from all over the world. And banter and humour is not always obvious even in text, even in our first language.
Aghh last thing i promise. In my case Irish/northern Irish humour and an Irish forum about an English team ;)
have a good one
 

villain

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What a bizarre read the previous page was :lol:
 

A-man

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Genuinely would like to know what it is he's missing?I'm not his biggest fan but i find it ammusing how certain players get written off before we've even seen them try something new.
Pogba is supposed to be a CM but it looks like he's a lot better(for United) playing wide on the left.
I've never seen Lindelof play as a DM,have you?
I think he could become a decent DM, but not the level needed at one of the biggest clubs in the world. In my opinion he lacks the aggression and the engine needed as DM. I could be completely wrong, but that’s what I feel. That’s however not my point. My point is that we need him as CB. We need to rotate, one CB might get injured, and one might be out of form. We have only seen Varane in one game where we struggled against Wolves, that’s not enough to say he’ll be a success even if that is highly likely. Bottom line, three reliable CBS is bare minimum.
 
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lex talionis

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I’m completely on board with Lindelof’s demotion behind Maguire and Varane, but now that’s he’s semi-officially a squad man I must ask the question: is there a better third CB in the PL?

Maybe, but surely not more than one I would think.
 

Foxbatt

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I think he could become a decent DM, but not the level needed at one of the biggest clubs in the world. In my opinion he lacks the aggression and the engine needed as DM. I could be completely wrong, but that’s what I feel. That’s however not my point. My point is that we need him as CB. We need to rotate, one CB might get injured, and one might be out of form. We have only seen Varane in one game where we struggled against Wolves, that’s not enough to say he’ll be a success even if that is highly likely. Bottom line, three reliable CBS is bare minimum.
That I agree with you. We need a CB that can come in and do a good job. Lindelof has shown he can do it.
As for a DM, I think some of us are saying that since we didn't get a new one this window, couldn't he be tried out because Fred has been bad so far this season.
 

firstkuyttouch

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I’m completely on board with Lindelof’s demotion behind Maguire and Varane, but now that’s he’s semi-officially a squad man I must ask the question: is there a better third CB in the PL?

Maybe, but surely not more than one I would think.
sweet Jesus. This is a man that Joelinton shit on. This is a guy who looks fine at CB as long as nobody runs at him quickly. This thread is rightfully celebrating the upgrade to Varane because no, no, now that he’s on the bench he’s not a better player than Thiago Silva, or Joe Gomez and this young guy Ibou Konate, or the Etihad backups. Jamaal Lascelles is a more valuable backup than Lindelof. But….sure
 

Bestietom

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That I agree with you. We need a CB that can come in and do a good job. Lindelof has shown he can do it.
As for a DM, I think some of us are saying that since we didn't get a new one this window, couldn't he be tried out because Fred has been bad so far this season.
We need a proper midfield general that can control games.
 

anant

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Him being successful at DM position depends a lot on the responsibilities he's given. As it is, starting position of a player and the roles they are given vary for each team.

I think his on-ball ability is decent for a DM. Doesn't try fancy stuff and keeps it simple. He, obviously, would be pressed more, but I dont see any red flags there. He reads the game pretty well. In fact, I think one of his strengths has been guiding the attacker away from danger without actually making the tackle, and that gives me some confidence on his screening ability as I think he's an intelligent player. Another responsibility he'd likely have is ability to control the tempo of the game. We know Fred can't and a lot of it is because of his tendency to go into tackles - which means a counter attack against us will either end up with opposition getting a really good chance or Fred having tackled the ball in the middle (with defensive shape at that time being all over the place).

The biggest issue is around the physicality - what happens if opposition try for long balls in his area and the opposition manage to win second balls as well. While Maguire and Varane provide good security to such errors, do we really want a DM whose biggest weakness is that well known?
 

Foxbatt

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Him being successful at DM position depends a lot on the responsibilities he's given. As it is, starting position of a player and the roles they are given vary for each team.

I think his on-ball ability is decent for a DM. Doesn't try fancy stuff and keeps it simple. He, obviously, would be pressed more, but I dont see any red flags there. He reads the game pretty well. In fact, I think one of his strengths has been guiding the attacker away from danger without actually making the tackle, and that gives me some confidence on his screening ability as I think he's an intelligent player. Another responsibility he'd likely have is ability to control the tempo of the game. We know Fred can't and a lot of it is because of his tendency to go into tackles - which means a counter attack against us will either end up with opposition getting a really good chance or Fred having tackled the ball in the middle (with defensive shape at that time being all over the place).

The biggest issue is around the physicality - what happens if opposition try for long balls in his area and the opposition manage to win second balls as well. While Maguire and Varane provide good security to such errors, do we really want a DM whose biggest weakness is that well known?
The point is not that he is going to be a successful DM that is quality. The point is that we have not bought a quality DM this window. So we have a legless Matic and an erratic Fred whose ball control and passing is worse than Lindelof. He is not a strong player than Lindelof either and his heading is worse than Lindelof.
 

ghagua

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It'll cost us games.

I can't believe people actually think Lindelof can play in DM and allow us to drop McFred from the team. He's a player that doesn't try to tackle and intercept passes and you're expecting him to win the ball for us in midfield?
How on earth can you say he will cost us games when he has never been tried in that position. Fred is being played in that position when he has been playing terrible football and has cost us points with his fouls on the edge of the box or giving the ball away. Matic has been played there when he does not have the legs for that position.
 

ghagua

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I can understand people are concerned with Fred. He loses possession often and got dribbled past six (6!) times last match which is horrible. But Lindelof is not the solution. He has some good attributes for a DM but he’s also lacking some skills you need. Anyway, no matter what abilities, that’s a transition you need to do in the pre-season, and secondly we need at least three reliable CBs through the season. City have four very good CBs. Lindelof and maybe also Varane can also play RB if we end up in an emergency in that position.
You can't write off a player until he has been placed in that. Trying Lindelof in midfield does not stop him from dropping back to center half if needed during the season, but I would keep him away from that position as I just simply don't rate him as a center half.

Plenty of players have switched position and made a name for themselves. Years ago Chris Sutton switched from center half to a striker and formed a deadly partnership with Shearer at Blackburn. Dion Dublin did very well switching the other way and went from a striker to becoming a decenet enough center half.
 

A-man

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That I agree with you. We need a CB that can come in and do a good job. Lindelof has shown he can do it.
As for a DM, I think some of us are saying that since we didn't get a new one this window, couldn't he be tried out because Fred has been bad so far this season.
You can't write off a player until he has been placed in that. Trying Lindelof in midfield does not stop him from dropping back to center half if needed during the season, but I would keep him away from that position as I just simply don't rate him as a center half.

Plenty of players have switched position and made a name for themselves. Years ago Chris Sutton switched from center half to a striker and formed a deadly partnership with Shearer at Blackburn. Dion Dublin did very well switching the other way and went from a striker to becoming a decenet enough center half.
I agree with both of you that he can’t be written off without being tried a few times. And I wouldn’t mind if Ole tested him as a DM in a cup match or two. However this is a discussion about him being suitable or not, and personally, I don’t think he has what it takes to become succesful in that position at this level and the way we play. He is perfect no 3 as CB; Reliable, seldom injured, has a high lowest level, knows all the players and how they play etc, let’s keep him there. There will be plenty of games for him as CB.
 

Pickle85

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Can't believe there are some trying to talk themselves into believing lindelof could do a job as a DM. He's a fine backup CB but no chance he works as a DM...lacks the mobility and the level of composure on the ball he'd need. He sometimes looks good on the ball at CB but there'd be a whole different level of pressure on him fr the opposition in that position. Also the 'we don't know until we try' argument makes no sense. We've never tried Harry Maguire in nets but should we, just in case he's better than De Gea?
 

Red_toad

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Can't believe there are some trying to talk themselves into believing lindelof could do a job as a DM. He's a fine backup CB but no chance he works as a DM...lacks the mobility and the level of composure on the ball he'd need. He sometimes looks good on the ball at CB but there'd be a whole different level of pressure on him fr the opposition in that position. Also the 'we don't know until we try' argument makes no sense. We've never tried Harry Maguire in nets but should we, just in case he's better than De Gea?
Maybe would try Dave in the middle, I mean you can’t write a player off until he’s been tried a few times right :lol:.
State of this place a centre half who is prone to being bullied and pressured expected to suddenly overcome those weaknesses and step up into midfield. I’d say we’d be better off throwing in a youngest who actually plays in midfield over converting a player into the role. Rio tried and failed and he was 10 times the player Victor is.
 

Pickle85

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Maybe would try Dave in the middle, I mean you can’t write a player off until he’s been tried a few times right :lol:.
State of this place a centre half who is prone to being bullied and pressured expected to suddenly overcome those weaknesses and step up into midfield. I’d say we’d be better off throwing in a youngest who actually plays in midfield over converting a player into the role. Rio tried and failed and he was 10 times the player Victor is.
:lol: exactly. Weird how frequently people want to try players out of position. Can we please just play an actual midfielder?!
 

Foxbatt

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:lol: exactly. Weird how frequently people want to try players out of position. Can we please just play an actual midfielder?!
The point is that we have tried all the midfield players we have and they have failed. Lindelof has played in midfield before. I don't even mind trying Shaw in midfield with Telles on the left. There are many players who can play in multiple positions. Lindelof looks like he may be able to play in midfield.
 

anant

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The point is not that he is going to be a successful DM that is quality. The point is that we have not bought a quality DM this window. So we have a legless Matic and an erratic Fred whose ball control and passing is worse than Lindelof. He is not a strong player than Lindelof either and his heading is worse than Lindelof.
Not disagreeing with you there and I have been quite open to the idea of him being tried at DM for quite a while actually
 

Pogue Mahone

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:lol: exactly. Weird how frequently people want to try players out of position. Can we please just play an actual midfielder?!
Fergie loved giving players a crack in different positions. Often in central midfield. Rio and Alan Smith were both disasters. O’Shea and Giggs formed a good partnership at one point. If anything, his successors haven’t been experimental enough IMO.
 

MadMike

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I would like to see an experiment with Iceman in DM to be honest. Start gently with a sub few appearances in dead games and maybe a league cup game or something.

I don't think he'd be a disaster but the proof is in the pudding, I s'pose.
 

horsechoker

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I would like to see an experiment with Iceman in DM to be honest. Start gently with a sub few appearances in dead games and maybe a league cup game or something.

I don't think he'd be a disaster but the proof is in the pudding, I s'pose.
It's an ice idea but we need to cool it with converting players. We don't need to freeze him out of the team though.
 

MadMike

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It's an ice idea but we need to cool it with converting players. We don't need to freeze him out of the team though.
See what you did there! We've barely done it with anyone though, we're not overdoing anything here. Who did we convert or experiment with in recent years?

I'm with Pogue on this. Since Fergie pretty much, we've stopped trying players in different positions. There's no harm in trying Lindelof in DM in some low risk games. He might come in handy in that position before the end of the season. We're an injury to Fred away from being monumentally fecked in DM. Matic ain't got legs any more.
 

horsechoker

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Cool it? Iceman is cool. But to be honest, cool what exactly? We've barely done it with anyone. Who did we convert or experiment with in recent years?

I'm with Pogue on this. Since Fergie pretty much, we've stopped trying players in different positions. There's no harm in trying Lindelof in DM in some low risk games. He might come in handy in that position before the end of the season. We're an injury to Fred away from being monumentally fecked in DM.
It's a slippery slope and we're skating on thin ice
 

Pickle85

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Fergie loved giving players a crack in different positions. Often in central midfield. Rio and Alan Smith were both disasters. O’Shea and Giggs formed a good partnership at one point. If anything, his successors haven’t been experimental enough IMO.
Alan Smith...that was a nadir in our CM experimentation, wasn't it!? I take the point that sometimes those things can work but I also think they're much more the exception than the rule. Giggs came to CM late in his career when he had an enormous amount of experience behind him and knew the game inside out - he was always quite a clever player imo. It was also because his pace had broadly deserted him. My memory of O'Shea in midfield was a little different...I always thought he was quite poor - not the most mobile and not a particularly great (or adventurous) passer.
 

Pogue Mahone

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"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
Alan Smith...that was a nadir in our CM experimentation, wasn't it!? I take the point that sometimes those things can work but I also think they're much more the exception than the rule. Giggs came to CM late in his career when he had an enormous amount of experience behind him and knew the game inside out - he was always quite a clever player imo. It was also because his pace had broadly deserted him. My memory of O'Shea in midfield was a little different...I always thought he was quite poor - not the most mobile and not a particularly great (or adventurous) passer.
O’Shea was pretty limited in that role but we went on a great run of results, including against decent teams, with him and Giggs as a combination.
 

elmo

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Fergie loved giving players a crack in different positions. Often in central midfield. Rio and Alan Smith were both disasters. O’Shea and Giggs formed a good partnership at one point. If anything, his successors haven’t been experimental enough IMO.
The difference was the players he tried in different positions usually showed some transferable skills over to the new position.

Other than being able to pick a pass when he's wide open, Lindelof hasn't showed any traits that we're looking for in a midfielder, especially when people here are saying he should replace Fred.
 

SoCross

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Alan Smith...that was a nadir in our CM experimentation, wasn't it!? I take the point that sometimes those things can work but I also think they're much more the exception than the rule. Giggs came to CM late in his career when he had an enormous amount of experience behind him and knew the game inside out - he was always quite a clever player imo. It was also because his pace had broadly deserted him. My memory of O'Shea in midfield was a little different...I always thought he was quite poor - not the most mobile and not a particularly great (or adventurous) passer.
That one game Smith had against Chelsea I think it was :drool:

Players Fergie tried out in central midfield - Park, Rio, Smith, Giggs, O'Shea, Neville, Jones...think only Giggs was a relative success (Neville had some storming games though).

Fergie did experiment a lot come to think of it. Recall Park playing at RB too in a CL game.