I guess that's one way of admitting you were wrong.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 35
- Clean sheets
- 8
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Status
Oh I am so wrong that the same people are doing rating week in week out. Using this overall rating from different people on the argument to judge player's performance is unjustified. There are many factors you must consider. How people use their rating, how many Lindelof lover in here, how many Maguire haters in here, how many people actually vote for rating every games on consistent basis, and etc.
Remember, we even had posters who said Lindelof is the better CB until Maguire got injured and they started to realise that Maguire is the better one. I even seen a poster made apologise thread about Maguire ffs!!
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You make no sense. Your claim that Lindelöf only ended up on the same rating as Maguire and AWB because some rate him too highly, and also because some just give out higher ratings than others, obviously makes no sense unless one assumes he's the only player being overrated, has no one giving him lower ratings than he deserves, has a higher proportion of people overrating him than others, and is the only player for whom differing views on what performance deserves which rating has an effect on the average. When I pointed this out to you, you fell back on "well they obviously just got fooled because Maguire made him look better than he was." True or not, it's got nothing to do with your original explanation for why Lindelöf has the same seasonal average as Maguire and AWB.
Why is it not possible or makes sense to you that people could give higher rating to Lindelof but lower to Maguire? We had these people actually said Lindelof is a better defender than Maguire!! And months later made an apology thread about Maguire when he got injured after realised he was actually carrying our defense!! This is why I mentioned it because it has something to do with my first explanation.
Why is it not possible to you there are people like A-man or others who are fanboying Lindelof and thinks he offers more quality than Maguire? If that's the case, why is it not possible that these people gave Lindelof higher rating than Maguire?
There are many factors to be in consideration and I had mentioned some of them, thus using this overall rating from different people on the argument to judge player's performance is unjustified.
Is it also not possible that people give Maguire higher ratings than his actual performance deserved? Or we just pretending that’s a one way street only applicable to Lindelof?
People also need to stop using the final as some sort of crux. We lost that because we played Rashford when we should have kept Pogba on the left and put two CM in and if need be take an injured out of form Rashford off the bench later on.
How is that different from the ratings of other players? Or you mean that Victor is so popular among the fans compared to other players, that his ratings are elevated because of that?
My personal rating is slightly higher than average for both Maguire and Lindelof. That small difference doesn’t have any visible effect at all on the average ratings compiled from hundreds of members.
Seems I rated just 2 matches and they happened to be 2 where Lindelof was playing better than Maguire early in the season. Looks like when he was playing well my rating of him was 6/10 while the average was 5.9
So you heard it here first, I overrate Lindelof
6/10 sounds about right to me for Lindelof overall. It said Maguire also had an average of 5.9, is that just from the 2 matches I put ratings in for? Because I'd personally consider him 7/10 for us and 8.5/10 for England at the Euros
If it wasnt just for those matches and Maguire's average over the season was 5.9 I'd be very concerned about the rating system here
So you heard it here first, I overrate Lindelof
6/10 sounds about right to me for Lindelof overall. It said Maguire also had an average of 5.9, is that just from the 2 matches I put ratings in for? Because I'd personally consider him 7/10 for us and 8.5/10 for England at the Euros
If it wasnt just for those matches and Maguire's average over the season was 5.9 I'd be very concerned about the rating system here
I'm always sure to give the lads a 1 when they disappoint me.
I use my eyes to rate Lindelof because the rating system doesn’t do minus scores
My eyes tell me he’s upgradable and thankfully that’s what the club thought too
My eyes tell me he’s upgradable and thankfully that’s what the club thought too
Barcelona wants a swap deal for Lindelof by giving us Griezman.
I know they are trying to offload Griezman's mega wages (45M per year) so wondering what you guys think if they pay some of it and he is OK to come to us for around 250K/week
Seems he is like our DeGea / Martial where no one is keen to pay his wages.
Worth considering it ?
I know they are trying to offload Griezman's mega wages (45M per year) so wondering what you guys think if they pay some of it and he is OK to come to us for around 250K/week
Seems he is like our DeGea / Martial where no one is keen to pay his wages.
Worth considering it ?
So now the dust has settled, how do the lindelof fans feel that he's been replaced?
It's clear Ole and the coaching staff realised he was a weak link, and perhaps not the great ball playing, game reading expert some like to think
It's clear Ole and the coaching staff realised he was a weak link, and perhaps not the great ball playing, game reading expert some like to think
There are many factors you must consider. How people use their rating, how many Lindelof lover in here, how many Maguire haters in here, how many people actually vote for rating every games on consistent basis, and etc. It's not just one way street mate.
People have debate about other players being not good enough and good enough mate, not just Lindelof.
Before Maguire got injured, we had seen many people in this forum defend Lindelof and even dared to make statement that he's better defender than Maguire or even same level as Maguire which insanity. And now all of sudden most of those same people realised how feckin good he is that he made Lindelof looks like decent. There were more Maguire haters than Lindelof haters on this forum before he got injured. Does this not enough to tell you that this forum's rating on Maguire and Lindelof are unjustified?
But are you suggesting there aren’t any Lindelof haters as well? I agree it’s not the greatest system to base an argument off of the Cafs average score over a season as many people are reactive and only recall one bad moment or that 1 goal that can swing ratings.
I’m not even a massive Lindelof fan and didn’t want him at United but this level of performance is what I kind of expected from him. However I don’t think it’s wrong to say at times through out the season and last he was superior to Maguire and vice versa. At times Maguire was superior. I don’t see why people think their was a massive gap in class between them. Generally between the two of them I think Lindelof has a far higher defensive IQ. Just maybe not the physical tools to carry it out.
Varane and Lindelof will be a decent partnership as Lindelof is a decent defender . I think Varane and Maguire will be a decent partnership and most likely our starting partnership. My main hope for the co I g season is that Maguire just improves his reading and positioning and if he does that with Varane getting back to previous form then they’ll be a force with Lindelof as a back up which isn’t a bad thing.
People keep talking about Lindelof being outmuscled but then don’t seem to have a problem with the 4 goals we conceded because Harry let the ball run across the front of goal where he could have cut them out. This is the problem with the CAF in that no one can be objective because everyone has favourites and we forget things and moments or excuse them or don’t see them the same way.
Why are you wasting time to argue if you agree it's not right to use the rating?
Players have haters but there were no players who are being hated more on this forum and this fan base other than Maguire before he got injured. There were fans thought Lindelof was the better defender or on par to Maguire until they reliased they were wrong and made an apology thread.
No because you’re being incredibly biased towards someone who is clearly your favourite and making silly statements without any proof whatsoever to back them up. Just using your own opinion and presenting it as fact to make your opinion seem less stupid than it is.
If you think there are/were more Maguire haters on this forum than Rashford, James, Martial, Wan Bissaka, DeGea Lindelof, Fred and the likes then god help you.
Can‘t say I’ve seen an apology thread on that subject but sounds like a fickle person. Becuase anyone using the back end of the season when Maguire was unfit and somehow claiming Maguire was holding the defence together doesn’t deserve the time of day.
Again with this rubbish that if Maguire played we wouldn’t have lost blah blah. Was it Chelsea Lindelof and Bailly played a blinder and everyone was like who needs Harry. What that is, is just people seeing a coincidence and trying to make out it was the sole reasoning where again, every man and their dog knows it was down to not making subs and not having the guts to start without Rashford. No one can be certain if we had Maguire we would have won that game either.
I'd take it instantly and I think the club would too if that was actually offered. Something tells me that hasnt been
no way we take griezmann. we have no place for him what sover
highly doubt there's any truth in it anyway, but no thanks. I know it's popular to hate on Lindelöf, but I hope we keep him. He's not good enough to be a first choice CB, but he's still a very solid 3rd CB for us. Then there's Griezmann, who doesn't fit at all and is on big wages ... no thanks.
As if Ole wouldnt pick Griezmann over most of our attackers other than Sancho and maybe Cavani as the CF role.
He’s not picking anyone over Fernandes.
Griezmann can't play as a 9 period. So not just Cavani would keep him of that slot.
He wouldn't displace Bruno as 10.
He is't as effective a Rashford on the let. Because he is the opposite of Rashford. Better on the opposite flank
He wouldn't get any where near Sancho as a right winger.
So pray do tell where exactly you think Ole would pick him to play? Given he isn't bench material?
If those many people who said Lindelof is better and equal to Maguire (before Maguire got injured) then it affects the rating match by match because those people who couldn’t see how Maguire had been much better defender than Lindelof would give Lindelof higher rating than Maguire or same rating as Maguire match by match.
You were the one who told me you agree with me that it’s not right to use the rating so how am I being biased?
So that’s strengthened my point why we can’t use cafe’s rating in this argument due to haters and other factors. You can see why some of those players have similar average rating as Lindelof.
Below is the apology thread. The fact you didn’t know such a thread exists means it doesn’t surprise me at all that you never seen enough people/posters who actually said Lindelof was the better defender or even equal to Maguire.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/an-apology-to-harry-maguire.462793/
I thought it was unlikely back before he got his new contract with us, and unlikely now too that Barca want Lindelof. Granted, they've gone down a level quite clearly as a team and as a club, since they were last linked with him, but they couldn't even afford him now.
If there's any truth to this, I hope the club's people are not stupid enough to take on Griezmann and his completely unmerited mega wages. He's a mercenary type figure, great talent, but not the personality we need, nor even the player.
If there's any truth to this, I hope the club's people are not stupid enough to take on Griezmann and his completely unmerited mega wages. He's a mercenary type figure, great talent, but not the personality we need, nor even the player.
What?! There is a clear and massive gap between their actual ability and performances. One is an aerial beast, proactive passer, generally quite dominant defensively and a leader. The other is another body on the field, whose main game plan is literally and figuratively about taking a step back by positioning himself to read the game zonally; at times you can say it's good reading of the game but mostly it's very passive and reactionary. Maguire is far from perfect and he has had many flawed performances but to say his level is about the same as someone, whose best qualities are 1) 'not making an obvious mistakes' because Lindelof rarely challenges or proactively puts himself in duels to affect the situation 2) and being fit/available is ludicrous.
As for the IQ thing. I will give that Lindelof has an understanding of the game from a theoretical/non-contact pov. He reads and marks space well but it is only one form of 'defending'. It is a form of sheppherding that ultimately just moves and extends the danger of the situation i.e back peddling back into his own half, awaiting for team mate cover etc. There has to be a practicality to it. That's not IQ to me, that's just ability to recognise danger; step 1 out of another 100 other things that need to be done.
Can you imagine Lindelof putting in the marauding playmaking performance Maguire did against Germany or against Italy? It's crazy talk to think they're comparable in any shape or form. Of course international performances are not an indicator of their form for our club but yes the example is just a very clear indicator of their base level. Maguire has probably had more worse individual games than Lindelof but his general performance is head and shoulders above because he's an active contributor in every single game.
If Varane is half the deal what we think he is, you will see a big difference in our performance out from the back. I don't expect lockdown defence or even less goals conceded overall in the season but for sure I will expect us pushing higher up the pitch, more passing through the lines from both Maguire/Varane, less defensive transitions (Lindelof's biggest weakness imo is his lack of assertiveness to deal with duels), less momentum-sapping chances conceded because we won't be afraid to actually put a foot in etc. These are the type of things that improves our team more wholesome than defer first, reactionary 'high IQ' defending.
The overrating of Lindelof is insane.
Spot on. Couldn’t agree more with the last part. It’s time to move on from players who have proven time and again that they aren’t good enough for what we need to get too
You get a better defender. I don't think Varane will necessarily be better at playing out from the back though. His defending style is also more on the passive side (like Lindelof's):
It is a bit, but with lots of pace which suits playing next to Maguire. Interestingly Varane plays a lot of switches/long passes with his left foot as well as his right, so he may provide slightly more options than Lindelof with the ball tooYou get a better defender. I don't think Varane will necessarily be better at playing out from the back though. His defending style is also more on the passive side (like Lindelof's):
Any and all positions mentioned. He's played Martial as a striker. We've had games where we dont play a real striker and Amad or Bruno play as a false 9. He'd just get him on the pitch with Bruno, Sancho and perhaps Cavani
Rashford is out for 3 months , Bruno has no competition for his position , Sancho’s back up is Dan James , we don’t know what Martial is going to show up , it’s good to have options provided he isn’t on some obscene wage
That and we need to go for the title soon
Yep! Gives a brand new dimension to our attack. Cavani can't play every game and Martial is just not trustworthy. We are left with Greenwood. Rashford is out for 3 months.
Griezmann could be a key cog in the system given that it will be very difficult to find a new striker once Cavani leaves. It will be stupid to rely on getting a deal done with Haaland.
1. Rashford will be back after 3 months. No way you sign Grizmann to cover a role he isn't comfortable in for just 3 months.
2. Griezmann isn't back up material. He wouldn't be cover for Sancho nor Bruno nor Cavani. You either get him to start him or you don't get him at all
Really? He is going to be benching Bruno, Sancho, Cavani and Rashford in those roles?
Who is twice as comfortable Grizemann in the role.
When has Ole ever employed a false 9 on even a short term basis? The only thing you can say is he could switch to a diamond to use him as a split striker
he wouldnt. The world and his dog know Griezmann is currently available. If an Ole thought he'd have use for him (remember he likes the diamond formation and even a back 3) we'd have sealed a deal by now given barca's plight with minimal fuss. I just don't see Griezmann being in ole's current vision for United at all
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And who would be back up for Varane and Maguire?
Ole has strengthened the defence with Varane. I doubt he would be willing now to take one step back and sell a CB that has been starter for 3 seasons. That means basically zero depth in that position. It’s easy to think positive, and believe everybody will stay fit and always perform at high level, but we have been lucky our starting CBs have been able to stay fit for so long. We were also lucky last season that Maguire was injured when we already had secured the top-4. He was out for 6 weeks. That’s 12 matches where we would need to trust Bailly who has never stayed fit that long.
If the rumour is true or not? I doubt it even if Barca have been trying to offload Griezmann for some time now.
Sorry, is there a serious suggestion here that some people think Lindelof is our best defender? Better than Maguire?
Pahahaha ha
Pahahaha ha
There was a surprising amount who thought so after the 19/20 season too.Sorry, is there a serious suggestion here that some people think Lindelof is our best defender? Better than Maguire?
Pahahaha ha
Will be an excellent option to have as 3rd choice CB but let's hope this thread is limited in it's usage.
Oh shit, we're going to have another Smalling debacle all over again.
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