[Alock1]

Also, I find the narrative that Rooney has had a good season, only held back by playing in midfield to be mind-boggling. I see it a lot in here but through the media too.

He's been a good captain, I'll give him that. Though he's hardly lead by example of late. But past that - it doesn't matter what position, what system, what role - he's offered up no semblance of consistency, he's barely performed in the big games, and he's hardly ever made the difference that you'd expect him too.

This isn't meant to be some definitive prove of his poor season, but I find it interesting that on Whoscored he's been our MOTM just once this season. Last season, 6 times. It's probably an easy thing to dismiss, but if you were to consider who the most influential players are in the league, they've all got plenty, bar Fabregas - but he's had to compete with Hazard, Matic and Costa.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Unfortunately, the many poor performances we've seen this season (and last) means it will take a really good performance to allay concerns that he's a busted flush. A much better performance than we saw yesterday, anyway. I wanted him to start and I really hope he can turn things round again. I'm no more confident about that now than I was before kick off. Which is disappointing and makes it hard to understand the positivity in the RVP thread.

This is the Rooney thread, though. He looks to have hit a wall. Not been good for a while. Just a pity there's so little top class competition for his place in the team. Even playing out of position. That's a worry.

I agree.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Also, I find the narrative that Rooney has had a good season, only held back by playing in midfield to be mind-boggling. I see it a lot in here but through the media too .

Mind-boggling? That's exactly what's happened. He's had good and bad games as a striker (like most strikers) but having to repeatedly drop back into midfield has obviously been hugely detrimental to his form as a number 9.

In midfield he's had a handful of quite good performances but generally been a bit meh. It's blatantly not his position.

All of which contributes to an underwhelming season, mainly through no fault of his own. That's not a narrative, that's actually what happened.

EDIT: although if your issue is with him being perceived to have had a "good season" overall then fair enough.

 

[Alock1]

Mind-boggling? That's exactly what's happened. He's had good and bad games as a striker (like most strikers) but having to repeatedly drop back into midfield has obviously been hugely detrimental to his form as a number 9.

Except your conclusion is an underwhelming season because of being in midfield, whereas the one I referred is a good season - despite the games in midfield.

He's been moved around the pitch and played the deeper position plenty under Fergie and Moyes too and would still win us games and put in MOTM performances. He would be frustrating, but he was still influential and effective. The only real mitigating factor here is that Van Gaal has taken the first-touch and poor passing frustration away by making him more cautious and more possession orientated.

However, he had what - 6 consecutive games up front? Arsenal, Newcastle, Spurs, Liverpool, City, Villa - the last 3 he was poor, despite being given a consistent run. I think the midfield being detrimental to his form up front is a guess at causation with no real substantial proof. Particularly in light of your 'no excuses for Di Maria, two 30-minute appearances should be enough for a player of his quality', another player constantly moved about, taken out the team, being given different roles - what's Rooneys excuse?

 

[ZDwyr]

His long lofted pass out wide right is too predictable. I mean, the opposition LB could start running to cut off the pass before Rooney even gets the ball. He's such an instinctive player in other positions but in CM he seems robotic and just bland.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Rooney is certainly not finished but is also not good enough to be what we build our next side around, he should be a part of it, not the heartbeat.
My biggest issue with Rooney isn't actually Rooney, it's his managers, from saf for most of his time, to moyes to lvg to Capello to hodgeson, not one of them drops him during his annual spell of poor form, not one. They all trot out the "he needs games to find his form" schtick, so do most players but they don't get that luxury.
Mata and Herrera, both dropped when they aren't playing well, our record signing and most creative player...likewise. Rooney? No chance in hell, not even against Everton where even his biggest supporters can't deny starting him is like playing with ten men.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Except your conclusion is an underwhelming season because of being in midfield, whereas the one I referred is a good season - despite the games in midfield.

He's been moved around the pitch and played the deeper position plenty under Fergie and Moyes too and would still win us games and put in MOTM performances. He would be frustrating, but he was still influential and effective. The only real mitigating factor here is that Van Gaal has taken the first-touch and poor passing frustration away by making him more cautious and more possession orientated.

However, he had what - 6 consecutive games up front? Arsenal, Newcastle, Spurs, Liverpool, City, Villa - the last 3 he was poor, despite being given a consistent run. I think the midfield being detrimental to his form up front is a guess at causation with no real substantial proof. Particularly in light of your 'no excuses for Di Maria, two 30-minute appearances should be enough for a player of his quality', another player constantly moved about, taken out the team, being given different roles - what's Rooneys excuse?

6 games up front. Excellent in half of them. That'll do. Not as though he was missing handfuls of chances in those other games, the barometer that is usually used to judge a striker.

Re Di Maria, if he'd put in a single performance against decent opposition as good as Rooney against, say, Spurs then I'd be much much happier with his United career to date.

Not to mention that Rooney's cv at the club speaks for itself. So it's weird that you're drawing comparisons with someone who may or may not succeed in the Premier League at all, never mind make a similar impact to Roney. Rooney has nothing left to prove, so it makes sense to look for mitigating circumstances if he's not hitting his usual heights. Di Maria still has it all to prove and, like I said, if he'd come close to matching Rooney's performances in - for him - an underwhelming season then that would be plenty good enough. Unfortunately, he hasn't done that.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

He may have a future at United but United won't have much of a future with him as a main main. 09-11 was his peak as a player. He is declining but this is not obvious to his fans because he is still capable of playing very well for 2-3 months per season. Generally, he's been poor/average in the second half of the season several years in a row. Last season, after having a good first half of the season, he slumped into mediocrity in the second half. This season, he was good for several months (November-January) and then became average again.

Bang on mate.

 

[prarek]

One of my biggest fear was LVG putting Rooney back into midfield. Lo and behold..

 

[settembrini]

Just play him upfront. Even when he's off his game he still regularly scores a goal (Villa) or gets an assist (City). Plus his work rate and pressing is invaluable for forcing errors and winning the ball high up the pitch. Things that directly contribute to chances and goals.

It was such a massive plus for us when RvP got injured and Van Gaal was forced to play him upfront. Amazing how quickly he's gone back to his failed experiment rather than continue with what works.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Rooney offers nothing. Time to cash in me thinks.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Rooney offers nothing. Time to cash in me thinks.

Not going to happen, I don't see any elite clubs needing him right now and his ego/greed wouldn't allow him to take a step down

 

[Rozay]

As soon as Moyes gave him that deal we got ourselves into a poor position. We have a commitment to 'build our team' (can expression I hate) around a player who is struggling to cement a place in even the second tier of top players in the game.

He is paid at the level of a Ballon D'or contender, and he's further away from that award than Fabien fecking Delph in reality.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Just play him upfront. Even when he's off his game he still regularly scores a goal (Villa) or gets an assist (City). Plus his work rate and pressing is invaluable for forcing errors and winning the ball high up the pitch. Things that directly contribute to chances and goals.

It was such a massive plus for us when RvP got injured and Van Gaal was forced to play him upfront. Amazing how quickly he's gone back to his failed experiment rather than continue with what works.

To be fair to Van Gaal, his hand was forced by the injury to Carrick and lack of a decent alternative in central midfield. Although his responsibility for this fiasco depends on how involved he was in assessing Di Maria's ability to become a reliable PL midfielder on his debut season.

 

[Bwuk]

He's the elephant in the room.

He isn't the top class #9 we need if we want to kick on, and he isn't that good in midfield.

 

[Amar__]

Excellent in half of them

You are my favourite poster ever. I don't think even Cal defends Ronaldo that much, and Ronaldo is on another planet to Rooney.

 

[drdoityourself]

He'll always keep up highish scoring and assist numbers playing up front. Problem is we need more from him. The one up top playing for Manchester United will always rack up decent stats. (Look at Hernandez or Berbatov). It's just painfully obvious he just doesn't cause defenders too much to worry about these days. His best attributes for me was always pace and power, that seems to be less of a feature in his game now. This current version of Rooney is painfully overrated and this bullshit about LvG's captain always playing the 90 mins has caused us problems. There are just so many excuses that are afforded to him that arent given to other players, f.x. he needs 4-5 games to get back into rhythm, he isn't playing his position.

 

[Devil may care]

Ah the Rooney out brigade is back then. Good to see

There's a middle ground, I think we have dug a hole for ourselves by making him Captain as now he always has to play regardless of form. To me he still has plenty to offer as a striker but not in any of the other roles he gets shoehorned into because he has to play no matter what.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Not per se Rooney out, peole think he should get a lesser role and not be our focal point.

Shhh! We only deal in extremes here.

 

[Escobar]

He really needs to show more. He's been shit recently

 

[Walrus]

He's the elephant in the room.

He isn't the top class #9 we need if we want to kick on, and he isn't that good in midfield.

I am starting to feel this way as well. Compare him to the main strikers for other teams - Aguero, Costa, Sturridge, Kane, Sanchez (sort of)...Rooney just falls short unfortunately.

There is no way he would accept being relegated to a squad player at this stage in his career though, especially after LVG made him captain this season. For me, I would see if we could attract a big money offer from the likes of PSG, and look to buy a top quality #9 to lead our line.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Rooney is not going anywhere. You guys are just going have to accept that

 

[ZDwyr]

He's the elephant in the room.

He isn't the top class #9 we need if we want to kick on, and he isn't that good in midfield.

I agree. But since he is captain he is guaranteed a starting spot. It's a bad situation really.

 

[Escobar]

He needs to up his game again. He's been poor recently and not offering enough movement or creativity.

 

[Kill 'em all]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/man-utds-wayne-rooney-robin-9173961

LVG has effectively taken out both Rooney and RVP of penalty duty.

 

[hp88]

I agree. But since he is captain he is guaranteed a starting spot. It's a bad situation really.

Looks like this is heading into the same situation Liverpool have with Gerrard. Club legend who's in decline carries on getting picked as he's the captain. Not say he's as bad as Gerrard but it looks like he will carry on playing for the next four years regardless of form.

 

[Jazz]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/man-utds-wayne-rooney-robin-9173961

LVG has effectively taken out both Rooney and RVP of penalty duty.

Good.
I am very interested to see how long his patience lasts' with Rooney. Seems to be losing a bit with his friend RVP. Rooney is simply not consistent enough nowadays and this is a problem for us. This is actually the reason why SAF wanted him to go - he could see what would happen. Also, him playing regardless of how bad he is will cause a bit of resentment from his team mates who are dropped the moment they stop performing. I don't know what we do, it's a big expensive mess and I doubt Rooney will want to play a bit part in the team.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

You are my favourite poster ever. I don't think even Cal defends Ronaldo that much, and Ronaldo is on another planet to Rooney.

Planet? Try universe

 

[NinjaZombie]

Good.
I am very interested to see how long his patience lasts' with Rooney. Seems to be losing a bit with his friend RVP. Rooney is simply not consistent enough nowadays and this is a problem for us. This is actually the reason why SAF wanted him to go - he could see what would happen. Also, him playing regardless of how bad he is will cause a bit of resentment from his team mates who are dropped the moment they stop performing. I don't know what we do, it's a big expensive mess and I doubt Rooney will want to play a bit part in the team.

I'd say the mess was created by Moyes but honestly, Van Gaal made it worse by making him his undroppable captain. I wonder if that'll change.

 

[markhrad]

I still think its part of LVG's original plan of giving everyone a chance to prove themselves. He gave Rooney an entire season to prove he was worthy of an undroppable status. Having failed I don't think anyone will complain when Rooney's role is revised for next season.

 

[ZDwyr]

Looks like this is heading into the same situation Liverpool have with Gerrard. Club legend who's in decline carries on getting picked as he's the captain. Not say he's as bad as Gerrard but it looks like he will carry on playing for the next four years regardless of form.

Yeah I would say that is a pretty good comparison actually.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

I think the time has come for rooney to be demoted to a bench player. He can't affect games like he used to.

It's time we got a proper striker in the costa, aguero and benzema mould. We need a striker that can guarantee 20+ goals a season, none of our lot can anymore.

 

[Black Adder]

Neither him, RVP or Falcao deserve place up-front, for various reasons.

He's good at captaining, our players like him and he's well respected among players from other clubs, but captain armband gave him undroppable status which no one should have, especially not in the team like United where you only play if you're good enough, not for some sentimental or other reasons.

 

[World Game]

When Rooney has the ball in midfield, you can be sure that it will end up at the feet of Mata or Valencia.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I think the time has come for rooney to be demoted to a bench player. He can't affect games like he used to.

It's time we got a proper striker in the costa, aguero and benzema mould. We need a striker that can guarantee 20+ goals a season, none of our lot can anymore.

I'm pretty convinced that if he was played at #9 all the time, he's be getting 20 goals a season. Messing his position around is really annoying, to me. He's not a midfielder, and if we really wanted to turn him into one, it'd take a whole season, not a streak of 5-6 games before being put back into the attacker's position again.

People are harsh on Rooney and don't take into account how disturbing it must be for a pro player to play in radically different positions on such a frequent basis.

I agree he shouldn't be a starter in midfield though.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I'm pretty convinced that if he was played at #9 all the time, he's be getting 20 goals a season. Messing his position around is really annoying, to me. He's not a midfielder, and if we really wanted to turn him into one, it'd take a whole season, not a streak of 5-6 games before being put back into the attacker's position again.

People are harsh on Rooney and don't take into account how disturbing it must be for a pro player to play in radically different positions on such a frequent basis.

I agree he shouldn't be a starter in midfield though.

He's got 14 this season and still been largely shit. Scoring goals isn't the whole problem, when played as a striker he's been anonymous and his hold up play has been so shockingly bad that we have to play Fellaini up there with him to actually hold the ball up. So even when he is up front he is hampering the midfield because we need to play Fellaini instead of a more creative player to make up for Rooney's shortcomings. If he could perform well in one of his positions he might not get moved around so much.

He's a good finisher and will score goals when given chances, but so will a lot of other strikers that offer more than Rooney currently does.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

He's got 14 this season and still been largely shit. Scoring goals isn't the whole problem, when played as a striker he's been anonymous and his hold up play has been so shockingly bad that we have to play Fellaini up there with him to actually hold the ball up. So even when he is up front he is hampering the midfield because we need to play Fellaini instead of a more creative player to make up for Rooney's shortcomings.

He's a good finisher and will score goals when given chances, but so will a lot of other strikers that offer more than Rooney currently does.

He's not been largely shit.

 

[facund]

I'm pretty convinced that if he was played at #9 all the time, he's be getting 20 goals a season. Messing his position around is really annoying, to me. He's not a midfielder, and if we really wanted to turn him into one, it'd take a whole season, not a streak of 5-6 games before being put back into the attacker's position again.

People are harsh on Rooney and don't take into account how disturbing it must be for a pro player to play in radically different positions on such a frequent basis.

I agree he shouldn't be a starter in midfield though.

Moving positions from month to month (week to week on some occasions) must really make it difficult in some senses for a footballer, especially when you are not proficient or well practised in one of them. This can explain tactical and positional confusion and even a loss of confidence but goes no way to explaining a drop in general footballing skills. Poor control and touch can't be excused by this and they remain some of the core criticisms of Rooney. Many people go over the top but he is performing significantly below his best.

Wayne could bag 20+ goals a season as a striker but so could Hernandez, Rooney needs to up his game and start showing a lot more if he wants to be the main man in the future as it is becoming increasingly difficult to paper over his short comings with the occasional moment of magic he produces. I don't think he has it in him but would be delighted for him to prove me wrong.

 

[wr8_utd]

He's not been largely shit.

Don't even bother. Some average games in midfield and the revisionism is going to start again as far as Rooney is concerned.

 

[Joga Bonito]

I do think his all-round game has gone down but his work-rate is still top notch (he was uncharacteristically underwhelming in this aspect in the last game though - the knock having an effect on him?) and his ability to combine with players (up top) is still very good whilst he is still clinical. I get that many will claim that work-rate isn't a quintessential quality for a top notch centre-forward but it isn't too bad a quality to have, esp when considering how our midfield lacked a reliable defensive presence during the mid stretch of the season. Granted, he wasn't the best player on the ball in midfield (naturally, since he isn't a midfielder) but I thought he was solid defensively and you always knew what you were getting with Rooney in midfield (immense workrate, ability to track runners, decent one on one defensively etc).

I was actually surprised at the tactical discipline he showed as a central midfielder; he wasn't constantly making needless runs forward, in line with his instincts as a striker but rather showed restraint and stuck to his responsibilities fairly well. We did not properly utilize his qualities fully in midfield but I always did find him to be a fairly solid if unspectacular presence (one could argue that was exactly what we needed during that particular stretch where the other midfielders were fairly porous off the ball - if you will). If anything his work on the ball has been overly criticised (justified to a certain extent) but his off the ball work during his stint in midfield has gone under gone under the radar imo.

I do think some do have a point in that he isn't exactly someone who you build the team around in the way you would around a talismanic Suarez, Aguero, Ibrahimovic etc but he can be a valuable player without necessarily being the star player. I can still see him being a quality player (one of the best in the league in his position without necessarily being the best) with a good supporting cast behind him. Rooney doesn't have the sheer dynamism or the same awe-inspiring ability to take a game by the scruff of the neck that he did before but there is no need to make him out to be a 'squad player' etc. He hasn't pulled up any trees during his stint at centre-forward this season (tbf to him he has constantly been rotated in different positions and hasn't had a consistent run up front) but he was still adequate enough in most of those performances. Obviously he needs to show more up top but I'll wait till he has a constant run up top with a balanced and quality set-up - which he obviously has to contribute to and not just be a part of - before completely writing him off as being past it.

Btw for all those saying we should replace him, who out there is available? Not Lewa, Benzema, Aguero, Suarez etc. I've seen many mention Dybala and Vietto but they aren't proven at the highest of levels and are budding youngsters - who you can't just put straight into the first team and expect results straight away.

I'm pretty convinced that if he was played at #9 all the time, he's be getting 20 goals a season. Messing his position around is really annoying, to me. He's not a midfielder, and if we really wanted to turn him into one, it'd take a whole season, not a streak of 5-6 games before being put back into the attacker's position again.

People are harsh on Rooney and don't take into account how disturbing it must be for a pro player to play in radically different positions on such a frequent basis.

I agree he shouldn't be a starter in midfield though.

Agreed. People are being overly harsh on Rooney - statements like him being a squad player/need to be sold etc are simply over the top.