Bloody hell this thread is getting a little bit intellectual isn't it. It's Wayne Rooney we are talking about here.
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Rooney was definitely world class in the 2009/10 season.
Absolutely amazing.
They never came in for him because world class English players preferred to stay in England in their prime.
Pity somebody didn't as a change of lifestyle could have prolonged his career to a higher standard. I think he is set in his ways.
It's a sign of how the last three years is starting to skew his legacy. For 5 seasons from 2006-2011, United were one of the top 4 teams in Europe, and Rooney was one of the main players (including a brace in a semi final and a goal in a final). If that is not world class, then I'd suggest the bar is being set unreasonably high.
That's a really good point about in-utero studies contradicting estimates from twin studies.
Specifically about height, AFAIK, a recent GWAS (9k SNPs!) could explain 30% of variation (less than half of the "inherited" percentage calculated by twin studies).
Basically, my point wrt Rooney is that even if it's not quite 80%, there is some genetic component to body shape/size. Exercise and diet will not make Rooney into Ronaldo. And I'm unsure about how much epigenetic marks can change after a certain age (if you are active in this field you can send me stuff, I find epigenetics really interesting). Though of course it is possible that the effect of a certain GWAS hit is modified by epigenetics/environment, etc.
Looking at IQ: a quick google tells me verified SNPs can account for 1-30% of variation (depending on if you take a homogenous population or more mixed), yet the estimates of heritability are much higher. Which again suggests epigenetics, childhood environment,etc.
Do you realise that Xavi and Iniesta are all-time greats? Then you have Zlatan, Pirlo, Buffon, Robben, Ribery. At best, Rooney was equal to the latter in a season or two. Prime Robben was easily better than prime Rooney. Rooney was a very good player who the British media machine and the United PR office made a global star. Plenty of players have had better individual seasons than him, including fecking Diego Costa who did at Atleti far more than Rooney did in his best seasons at United.
Agree with most of what you said but this. The only really world class season rooney had for us was the season where he got injured prior to a CL tie with Bayern and lost form for the tail end of the season.
Prior to that he was electric and really looked like he would carry us single handedly to the CL and PL double.
His all round play never reached those heights again despite having two seasons as a fantastic goal scorer. I feel that particular injury, in addition to his fitness and dedication issues, really hampered him from becoming the player he could have been. An odd thing to say about our record goal scorer, i know.
When people keep repeating this "lifestyle" business to death, I wonder what they're measuring it against.
He's been at the top level 15 years now. How many players play in the Premier league for that many years?
How many players emerge so ready for it at 16? It's super rare, and surely inevitable that they'd burn out more.
How many players played as much as a teenager as Rooney did? What age did they keep their top form to?
Yes Giggs was a natural lithe character, did yoga etc, and went onto 40. That's very very much the exception, otherwise there would be tonnes doing it.
Yes Ronaldo "takes care of himself", but he's an absolute machine, and didn't have anywhere near the miles the teenage Rooney put in.
Roll on a departure at the end of the season, and we can all get the Rooney goals compilations out and remember what a player we had.
He's been at the top level 15 years now. How many players play in the Premier league for that many years?
How many players emerge so ready for it at 16? It's super rare, and surely inevitable that they'd burn out more.
How many players played as much as a teenager as Rooney did? What age did they keep their top form to?
Yes Giggs was a natural lithe character, did yoga etc, and went onto 40. That's very very much the exception, otherwise there would be tonnes doing it.
Yes Ronaldo "takes care of himself", but he's an absolute machine, and didn't have anywhere near the miles the teenage Rooney put in.
Roll on a departure at the end of the season, and we can all get the Rooney goals compilations out and remember what a player we had.
I don't think the big continental clubs came for Rio or Scholes either...
Or, as surely happened with those three and others, they made a discreet enquiry, heard the player is happy where he is and realised there was no point in pursuing it.
I hate how Neville and Carragher had a big debate on MNF last night and Rooney's name didn't pop up once.
I don't have anything personal against the guy, he is a legend for us but I always hated how he got off scott-free from criticism in the media.
I don't have anything personal against the guy, he is a legend for us but I always hated how he got off scott-free from criticism in the media.
Steady on mate....NO ONE COMPARES TO ROGER FEDERER!!!
And with regards to Rooney: the guy clearly doesn't take much interest in his own personal fitness.
You think that genetics is the reason why he is unfit and fat? Seriously?
Nonsense. Jose tried to sign him at Chelsea and Madrid, Pep has openly expressed his admiration for him many teams. Teams might not have tried too much because he wasn't really leaving but he was widely admired around Europe.
I see some here trying to defend Rooney by saying his decline is 100% genetic and completely out of his hands. On the other hand, some blame Rooney for his own decline as they argue it is dictated by his environment, his diet habits and lack of time in the gym. The reality is likely somewhere in between.
What I find ironic is that if the argument of those who defend Rooney is true, then he is completely done and there is nothing to do but to toss and sell the useless piece of blabber to anyone who will take him. And conversely, if the argument of those who "atack" Rooney is correct, gym and environmental factors are all to blame, then the club must surely assign him a couple of trainers over the summer and send him to Dubai in a special training program, to lose 15 stone and squeeze a minimum of 3 years more of useful life to his football carreer.
Somehow, I think this summer Rooney will be heading to Las Vegas for a few beers and cigarettes, before deciding whether to make a move or continue collecting (stealing is more appropriate) his salary which noone else is stupid enough to pay. Tough life.
What I find ironic is that if the argument of those who defend Rooney is true, then he is completely done and there is nothing to do but to toss and sell the useless piece of blabber to anyone who will take him. And conversely, if the argument of those who "atack" Rooney is correct, gym and environmental factors are all to blame, then the club must surely assign him a couple of trainers over the summer and send him to Dubai in a special training program, to lose 15 stone and squeeze a minimum of 3 years more of useful life to his football carreer.
Somehow, I think this summer Rooney will be heading to Las Vegas for a few beers and cigarettes, before deciding whether to make a move or continue collecting (stealing is more appropriate) his salary which noone else is stupid enough to pay. Tough life.
He's fat because he's fat, has nothing to do with genetics. These arguments remind me of those overweight blokes blaming their 'slow metabolism'I give up.
I've not said that anywhere and I've clarified several times that isn't what I said or mean.
I swear posters only skim read posts. It's the only explanation.
No one expects Rooney to be like Ronaldo
. Rooney started declining at 26-27 and was finished as a player by 30! Ironically enough Ronaldo was an ectomorph in his early 20s and turned into a mesomorph at his peak. So it's possible that Rooney could have been like Ronaldo if he wanted to be, obviously not the same but his own version as a result of obsessive training.Steve Horvath has been working on a project called the Epigenetic clock which uses DNA metathylon levels in the blood or saliva to estimate your biological death. Humans should be able to live forever, but our epigenetic plasticity becomes maladaptive with age. Alzheimers arises from a lack of plasticity while cancer is the opposite. I've tried understanding the research but it is next to impossible as a layman. But, what i understand is that there is no regulator or when there is a regulator in certain cell types they are imperfect.
this is just not true
Yeah, I don't have any personal hatred towards him, but it's true that media bias.
Paul Parker is immuned from that though, he just let it rip! on Rooney, blasting him mercilessly.
Man Utd 1:1 Celta Vigo
His best contribution to the season.
MOTM
Was going to say exactly that
I thought Mata should have came on but he squatted in the corner nicely a couple of times.
Used his experiences well, slow down the game with whatever means quite effectively - the corner squats and winning fouls.
Rubbish. He had one great season for Atleti. Rooney was the best #9 in the world in 09/10 - Drogba was the only other striker in England anywhere near him, both players being better than any CF in Europe as well, except for Messi who was being played in the middle that season. He was also world class in the second half of 10/11 and brought us #19, also taking us to a CL final only to be beaten by the strongest club side of the last 50 years, maybe all time. He was one of the reasons Ronaldo was enabled to play the way he did at United from 06-09, often playing wide and showing his versatility. He was then, again, the best striker in England in the 11/12 season until he got injured.
Short memories.
If he's got to come on bringing him on with 5 minutes left to waste time and win free kicks is the best way to use him.
The idea that it's supposed to slow the game down, not our game.
Might have been his best performance of the season.
He's good in wasting time, running down the clock.I'd wager he has a lower body fat % than an awful lot of people. He's of a stocky build, that doesn't make him fat, nor is he unfit. Personally want him gone, but the people are just making crap out about him and rinsing and repeating it until it becomes a truth. If he were fat and unfit, he'd not be getting any game time, Jose looks at how people train, they don't look up to it, they go to the reserves.
Surprised he played over Mata tbh.
Probably didn't want to risk Mata getting injured since it got a lot of intense in the end.
Hmm I see the point but still I would have preferred Mata coming on as we needed someone to control the ball and keep possession at this point which Mata does better for sure.
Came on, slipped right away, but then won us throw ins, free kicks and kept the ball in the corner
But was appreciated as it helped eat out a lot of that injury time haha
But was appreciated as it helped eat out a lot of that injury time haha
Costa made Atleti champions in a competition with Messi's Barca and Ronaldo's Madrid, matching their goals in the league while playing for a far more defensive team. And, at the same time, he led them to the CL final, scoring overall 37 goals this season.
Rooney's best season was 09/10 when United competed with far less impressive teams in the PL, not with Barcelona and Real. And United didn't reach the CL final either. Costa's 13/14 season trumps any season that Rooney had for United. Don't mention 10/11 when Rooney was crap for half a season. He had a great second half of the season, not a great season overall.
But what if Rooney didn't get injured towards the end of the 09/10 season? He could have led United to glory? Maybe, or maybe not. It's entirely hypothetical. Thing is, he scored 34 goals and won nothing big. Whereas Costa matched Ronaldo's and Messi's output while playing in a far less attacking team and led Atleti to the CL final.
All in all, there are plenty of players with better individual seasons than Rooney. Those two 34 goal seasons were excellent but many other players had better sasons. What elevates Rooney above Costa and other players is his overall career, not his best seasons.
Anyone else notice how tired he looked though, after one passage of play he was blowing hard (but trying, unsuccessfully, to hide it).
I saw him being skinned by the Ox on Sunday. I know the Ox is really quick but Rooney couldn't even keep up after running 2 meters and decided to throw a tackle at him which he missed completely.
A few other Arsenal players ran past him easily.
I would like to draw comparison with Torres. Torres lost a lot of speed and pace during his last season at Liverpool. I never fully.understood how Torres lost them. Could it have been his injuries from over sprinting? It could also have been he changed his gym routine and became stronger and less susceptible to injuries but because slower and less lethal. It is quite bewildering how players like Rooney and Torres could lose so much within 3 years.
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Rooney was a world class youth (16-21), but let's be honest beyond that he barely scrap world class, and that's on his best season.
He's nowhere near henry, zidane, xavi, and other undisputed world class. Like many says he's never even the best player in the team bar that one season.
He's always got that extra rating because he's English, plays for united since 16, and other things like good influence, experience, leader, passion, etc.
Why has he outlasted all the strikers we have signed if he is so bad? He has always played and always been kept over the other strikers. Manchester are a world famous team they can sign almost anyone yet Rooney still remains. You thinks thats because he is lucky, overrated or english?
Because he consolidated his power when Ferguson left. He should have been sold 4 years ago., we've been stuck with him on an eye watering wage ever since.
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