What will it take for you to understand that it's all about Brexit? We don't have an opposition to Brexit by Labour which should have been their natural position so anyone who does that gets a cheer naturally. It doesn't mean that people agree with everything they have done or they might stand for. It means that htey agree with their fierce opposition of Brexit.
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
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What's the next excuse for not giving a shite about people's lives? Because there sure as hell will be one.
We really do care about your lives, but please keep quiet about that for one minute and cheer the feckers who've spent the last decade voting to screw you over - because they're terribly concerned that your life will be screwed over. Please, whatever you do, don't remember how we're completely incapable of working alongside Corbyn but will happily march alongside the architects and most loyal supporters of the last decade of political policy.
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The government just announced over £2b to be spent on PLANNING for a no deal Brexit that hardly anyone wants and might still not happen. If it does happen it will likely cost the country tens of billions.
What the feck is the point of talking about normal policies, all of which will require spending to make up for the drain caused by Tory austerity, if we’re just going to wave through something that will guarantee the money just isn’t there for any of them?
Some people would look at the government's ability to spend £2bn on anything as proof austerity was an ideological choice and be more inclined to tell the people who proposed, implemented and supported it to feck off even further. Instead I'm apparently supposed to be cheering them on.
Also, why wouldn't you be in favour of planning for No Deal when the Lib Dems want it as an option on any second referendum?
So...you’re back to exactly where you started?I really don’t know when the penny will drop for Labour that at this point people no longer give a shit about any other issues other than Brexit and that nothing else can be achieved until that’s out of the way.
I’ve done a full 360 on Corbyn and think he absolutely needs to go if there’s any chance of stopping a Conservative government. Considering the state of the country the opposition should have been miles ahead but it has been failed by its leadership of both Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn. If only David had won we wouldn’t need to be talking about Conservatives, Corbyn or indeed fecking Brexit
Of course austerity was an ideological choice. I'm not sure why you think anyone is suggesting you should be cheering on Tories. The vast majority of people supporting a second ref are on the left, so why does it matter if a few Tories support them against the majority of their own party? Why is THAT the thing we're supposed to focus on and do purity tests about?
Me and my purity tests of not wanting to get behind people who wilfully ruined the lives of people I care about
Wait until you see the reaction the austerity enabling Lib Dems winning a seat has been getting today.
Yes, there's an explanation a bit further down as most people think its a mistake.
Brexit will hit hardest the very people who's corner you and Corbyn are fighting. I'd rather join a march with "the enemy" for the common goal than sit in obscurity with my head held high. Pride is the burden of a foolish person.
Or you could just vote for the labour party who are offering a second referendum.
But why listen to one of the few forms of political organisations working people have in this country when you could instead march with Michael Heseltine.
No you wouldn't vote Labour because they are commited to delivering Brexit if they are in power. They will only ask for a referendum if a deal or no deal is brought by the Tories. Confused? Everyone is because no one is giving a straight answer and there's huge contradictions within the party when they should have been absolutely united behind a remain. This is why people have fecked them off. They fecked the first one and they are trying very hard to feck the second one too.
I'll march with Heseltine to stop Brexit and once that done I can easily go back to calling him a cnut. It's not like we're going to be best mates after its all over and done with.
Again the party is offering a second referendum and will have a second referendum in their manifesto if we get a election before 31st October. There is no stop brexit button.
Pride is the burden of a foolish person.
Look I'm not even saying vote labour regardless(Being smart can stop the tories)
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but a lot remain people have melted their brains over the last few years.
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Because Corbyn has hidden it. Sorry couldn't resist.
Though vote for the labour party and they will negotiate a new brexit deal and then presumably campaign for leave (it's pretty inconceivable they could campaign against their own deal)
''Shakes fist''
Dam white text !
Lets give it some time.
But no really remain people are still getting a referendum no ? And then it will be a labour deal(which if its any different than what the tories got will just be a soft brexit)vs remain with no deal off the table.
What to hate about that ?
On a serious note, you do realise that the Labour suggested deal is impossible and isn't a soft Brexit anyway. The only soft Brexit is remaining in the (not a) custom's union and in (not access to) the single market with the four freedoms included plus the contributions and no vote.
Honest question if we invented a stop brexit button, which stops the whole process now and the country carries on as if 2016 referendum didn't happen. Would you press it ? Do you hate Brexit so much that you want to throw the whole democratic process.The fact that it’s Brexit
Isn’t it clear enough yet that remainers hate Brexit?
Because if your answer is yes, then there is nothing the labour party can or should do to win you over.
The fact is if you want to remain in the EU, you are going to have to win another referendum.
Tusk welcomed it
On a serious note, you do realise that the Labour suggested deal is impossible and isn't a soft Brexit anyway. The only soft Brexit is remaining in the (not a) custom's union and in (not access to) the single market with the four freedoms included plus the contributions and no vote.
Although I image that was more to put pressure on May at the time. Plus I wouldn't image Labour would get 100% the deal they wanted(the EU isn't exactly friendly towards socialist). The best deal was always the one the country had before it voted to leave.
Yes they would welcome a chance to discuss the UK remaining in the CU and SM which is a vague possibility with Labour showing a sign that they are actually sort of interested. It was just a slightly more positive approach than May and could have been a basis for the start of discussions. But Labour ruling out freedom of movement and the UK making their own deals whilst being in a customs union with the EU wouldn't happen. The only way of keeping the same benefits of the EU is by being in it, which should be obvious to most people.
I think the EU would rather favour a socialist government than a populist nationalistic RW government.
We don't know whether a Labour deal is possible and we don't know what would be in it if it was? You are asking remainers to trust Labour when they have no reason to.
... Which requires politicians prepared to advocate for a remain position, rather more vocally than the Labour leadership did the last time.
Quite agree and you are totally correct.
The money that Brexit is going to cost this country simply to try to fulfil some unattainable pipe dream is frankly obscene.
You and I know that this is not going to happen.
Remember they refused to join the remain alliance in the recent by election (all other remain parties withdrew to increase the libs chances of winning)
Rumour from Westminster is Boris to have a vote on an election on or around 4th September with an election around 17th October
Apparrently keen to get the election started before labour conference to ensure he's up against Corbyn and his unicorns
Apparrently keen to get the election started before labour conference to ensure he's up against Corbyn and his unicorns
You must have missed the memo. It's 'Remain and Reform' now.
The movement has moved on from rating the austerity enforcing, migrant drowning at 10/10 and not a decimal lower. It's still perfect but in need of serious reform.
It will also give McDonnell and Corbyn the chance to make up a fudgy manifesto of their own without a load of recent conference resolutions to swerve around. Whatever it is I doubt it will go down well anyway.
And if fudgy isn't a word I claim it.
Very much part of the gaming through strategy that has gone on within team boris I'm told
Funny how other EU countries didn’t have austerity, given that it was ‘enforced’ and all..
That part will be fine to be honest - McDonnell's economic measures are close to about the only interesting thing about the party right now and they tend to do alright when they go into campaign mode. Can't see them winning due to the electoral math right enough.
It was merely a suggestion left in Greece's suggestion box.
So how much money did you give to Greece no strings attached?
It’s literally enforced by Maastricht
None of the things that characterize UK austerity are enforced by Maastricht.
Ironically Maastricht itself isn't really enforced
Just some examples other than Greece
Spain -
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/n...-austerity-measures-leave-patients-suffering/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/01/spain-pain-austerity-deepens
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jul/11/mariano-rajoy-spain-65bn-cuts
Ireland -
https://www-cdn.oxfam.org/s3fs-publ...-austerity-inequality-ireland-120913-en_0.pdf
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/sep/23/ireland-austerity-budgets-comment
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/04/jobstown-not-guilty-ireland-water-privatization-austerity
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/a-brief-history-of-water-charges-in-ireland-1.2007574
Similar to how leave voters have been radicalised to go along with No Deal, there is a section of the Remain vote that has been through a similar process and now views the EU as some ''left'' safe heaven, that protects the working people of Europe.
European nationalism is no better or different than any other form of nationalism.
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The claim was that the EU forced austerity on its members. This claim is completely false, and obviously so given that many EU countries didn’t have austerity measures.
There’s plenty of flaws in the EU system, without just making up lies about it.
From the links I posted.
And
This is very bizarre way to judge austerity in the EU.
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Whatever. We all know the moment Jezza comes out for remain, or there’s a Lib-lab pact after the next election, you’ll be on here talking about it almost like it was your idea.
If there is any link between Labour and the Lib Dems, I'll certainly be on here saying something. It sure as shit wouldn't be that it was my idea.
Agreed.
Prediction: Corbyn (if he's still leader) calls a vote of no confidence some weeks or months after the UK have left the EU and it's become clear, even to those less intellectually gifted, that the UK has made an enormous error.
I'm just running the dates through in mind but if he calls a vote of no confidence on the first day parliament sits that's 5th September (rumours are Boris will call for a ge on the 4th anyway)
But assuming he calls for a vote on the 5th... The house debates and votes on the 6th
Assuming the motion of no confidence carries the government then have 14 days in which to form new alliences to secure a majority
Assuming that fails we are on September 20th... And then an election is called ... This takes 6 weeks therefore it's November and we have already left with no deal
Not backing the libs no confidence motion before parliament broke up ensured a hard brexit was something parliament couldn't stop
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