Westminster Politics

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

You can disagree and "get it".

So, to be clear, this is Mr. Cumming's position:

I and my wife were unwell, likely both with CV19. I was concerned that this would result in a situation where we could not care for my child. I did not want to pass a potentially fatal illness to my wife's brother and sister who live close by in London. However, my 17 year old niece in Durham 260 miles away had offered to help. We felt her life was more expendable and the fact she resided on an opulent estate simply made this already convenient solution more so. We then made this journey in direct contravention of Government advice and I then returned to London to work also in direct contravention of Government advice. This is of course Government advice I was one of the prime architects of and has caused distress and suffering the country across as we attempted to control the outbreak of CV19. This is also Government advice that resulted in the resignation of Neil Ferguson, another architect of Government policy, for a lesser breach . Oh, and also, to test my eyesight I drove with my wife and child who I have already established the welfare of is of paramount importance, coincidentally on her birthday. I will then suggest that the Government advice did not relate to my circumstances, even though I was one of it's chief architects and suggest that the media are being unfair to me as I refuse to concede any wrong doing.

You're cool with all of this it seems. Most people aren't. You can "get" why I assume, whilst disagreeing?

it’s quite difficult to know what I “don’t get” without you stating what it is, so thanks for now elaborating.

it’s pretty difficult to read one massive paragraph for a start, to accept my apologies in not reading in detail a massive block of text.

Do I see anything wrong in travelling to Durham in those circumstances, and if they don’t have other child care option - no.

do I see anything wrong in him picking up his child from hospital, who got taken awayin an ambulance - no.

is the story about his eyesight and the need for a test drive as fishy as hell - yes.

is this something the media and government should be focusing on and dedicating days to get to the bottom of - no.

is every political opponent jumping on this and making it more of a story to gain politically - obviously yes (as always happens in opposition).

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

You ignored the other one.

I said it matters if his wife drives as if she does why didn't she take the wheel instead of him driving the family 30 miles to a beauty spot to test his impaired vision?

The whole thing is bollocks let's be honest.

I replied to @Cascarino who asked essentially the same question, and my reply was “fair point”.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

The point he was making was that was After the had isolated for 14 days and based on science shouldnt have been able to pass it on.

Yeah but the whole point of leaving London was because he couldn't get childcare. So he then returned to London to get childcare? It's a load of shite tbh.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Are you actively giving feedlines now?

You seem to be doing that a lot.

If I asked you to reply to your own quote, then I suspect you would be equally in the dark.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

it’s quite difficult to know what I “don’t get” without you stating what it is, so thanks for now elaborating.

it’s pretty difficult to read one massive paragraph for a start, to accept my apologies in not reading in detail a massive block of text.

Do I see anything wrong in travelling to Durham in those circumstances, and if they don’t have other child care option - no.

do I see anything wrong in him picking up his child from hospital, who got taken awayin an ambulance - no.

is the story about his eyesight and the need for a test drive as fishy as hell - yes.

is this something the media and government should be focusing on and dedicating days to get to the bottom of - no.

is every political opponent jumping on this and making it more of a story to gain politically - obviously yes (as always happens in opposition).

Did Cummings do the opposite of the guidelines he was architect of? Yes.

....that's the only question that should be asked, btw. We're wasting time on everything else which is exactly what they want.

 

[noodlehair]

People keep laughing at Trump and the US but honestly we're outdoing them.

Imagine tryint to claim you drove 30 miles to try and test your eyesight and being so stupid you think people will actually believe this. You might as well say you drove 30 miles to make sure you hadn't turned into a squid.

 

[Compton22]

In all that waffle, I find that I'm asking myself one question. Who drives 30 miles with their 4 year old kid in the back to test their eyesight?

 

[Berbasbullet]

In all that waffle, I find that I'm asking myself one question. Who drives 30 miles with their 4 year old kid in the back to test their eyesight?

Someone that isn’t telling the truth, that’s who.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

People keep laughing at Trump and the US but honestly we're outdoing them.

Imagine tryint to claim you drove 30 miles to try and test your eyesight and being so stupid you think people will actually believe this. You might as well say you drove 30 miles to make sure you hadn't turned into a squid.

I know we're bad but we don't have our politicians saying this whole thing is a Democratic plot and that we should inject bleach, refuse to wear masks and storm government buildings to demand they let us go back to work.

 

[sullydnl]

In all that waffle, I find that I'm asking myself one question. Who drives 30 miles with their 4 year old kid in the back to test their eyesight?

More to the point, who drives 260 miles across the country when very likely to have a contagious disease in the middle of a national lockdown?

Poking holes in the details of his excuses is all well and good but the first and most basic point remains. He should not have been making that drive, as anyone with an ounce of common sense recognises.

 

[SteveJ]

The big guns of Boris Caligari's Cabinet (Hancock, Sunak etc) arrive on cue with natural, unsolicited and spontaneous messages of support.

 

[Paxi]

Probably nothing really although I'd think they were a bit of a twat.

That's the point isn't it. Those who just go "Cummings has done it so I'll do what I want" are the same as him. The point is you have to be better than that surely instead of already trying to think of ways to get around things.

Early in the lockdown one guy was sat about and told me he was exercising. He then started pumping his fists and said grip strength. Why bother being a dick head? I don't get it.

Exactly, but we have a government who is enabling people to do that.
Saying we have to be better than that is admirable but I know a few people who are already intent on breaking the rules because they don't like the fact that it's one rule for them and another for us.
Don't get me wrong, I followed government lockdown rules to a t and
I'll still follow the guidelines, but not because the government tells me to, but because I don't want some vulnerable person to die because of me. But my trust in this government is completely gone, although, I do live in Northern Ireland so we're not under the same leadership but still.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Did Cummings do the opposite of the guidelines he was architect of? Yes.

....that's the only question that should be asked, btw. We're wasting time on everything else which is exactly what they want.

he didn’t though did he.

if you take him at his word (whether you believe that is a different question), then he didn’t do the opposite of the guidelines.

You can argue that the guidelines could have/ should have been clearer - but it’s near impossible to give guidelines for every single possibility - again that’s a different point.

At the start of this, half the police force were implementing different interpretations of what you could and couldn’t do. This is why laws, rules and regs take lots of time and iterations to get right, but clearly the government had to get guidance out quickly.

 

[SteveJ]

I know we're bad but we don't have our politicians saying this whole thing is a Democratic plot and that we should inject bleach, refuse to wear masks and storm government buildings to demand they let us go back to work.

Unusual for robbers like Trump and Johnson to resist wearing masks...

 

[Rooney24]

so it would be ok for him to travel to the Midlands or Leeds for example? If 260 miles is not acceptable, would 30, 60, 90,150 miles.

Well I was replying to and expanding on the previous question:

Do we really believe there is no one within 260 miles that he can trust with childcare

But a poor choice or wording from me. The thrust of what I meant is he shouldnt have been going anywhere under the circumstances.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

The simplest answers are usually the true ones. So did Cummings breach the guidelines because;

A) he couldn't get childcare in London so he went 260 miles North to stay with family so that they could watch the kid and then took a trip to test his eyesight before coming back to London for childcare that had magically just appeared.

Or

B) he took his family up to his parents' country estate for a holiday and got caught.

And the answer doesn't matter because the problem was breaching the guidelines in the first place.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

it’s quite difficult to know what I “don’t get” without you stating what it is, so thanks for now elaborating.

it’s pretty difficult to read one massive paragraph for a start, to accept my apologies in not reading in detail a massive block of text.

Do I see anything wrong in travelling to Durham in those circumstances, and if they don’t have other child care option - no.

do I see anything wrong in him picking up his child from hospital, who got taken awayin an ambulance - no.

is the story about his eyesight and the need for a test drive as fishy as hell - yes.

is this something the media and government should be focusing on and dedicating days to get to the bottom of - no.

is every political opponent jumping on this and making it more of a story to gain politically - obviously yes (as always happens in opposition).

Are you saying you struggle with paragraphs? Fair enough. I'm done here.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I know we're bad but we don't have our politicians saying this whole thing is a Democratic plot and that we should inject bleach, refuse to wear masks and storm government buildings to demand they let us go back to work.

We can agree on that!

 

[Mr Pigeon]

he didn’t though did he.

if you take him at his word (whether you believe that is a different question), then he didn’t do the opposite of the guidelines.

You can argue that the guidelines could have/ should have been clearer - but it’s near impossible to give guidelines for every single possibility - again that’s a different point.

At the start of this, half the police force were implementing different interpretations of what you could and couldn’t do. This is why laws, rules and regs take lots of time and iterations to get right, but clearly the government had to get guidance out quickly.

How didn't he breach guidelines exactly? He travelled 260 miles in a car to his parents' house. Where in the guidelines does it state anything about that being essential travel? Genuine question, because I've heard Cummings say that the guidelines say his case is covered and yet nobody can provide what it is that he's talking about.

 

[Adisa]

He refused to expand on his conference and refused to offer unconditional backing. Cummings is done.

He is asked why, if Cummings was unsure whether or not he was fit to subsequently drive back to London, his wife did not take the wheel instead.

Johnson says they are good questions but claims that, because Cummings has answered a lot of questions already, he will not add anything substantial. Johnson says:

He's saying the public can draw their conclusions but he has drawn is.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Are you saying you struggle with paragraphs? Fair enough. I'm done here.

yes I struggle to read massive blocks of text, don’t you?

that’s why you have gaps between paragraphs - if you need an example, just pick up a book and go to any page.

 

[McGrathsipan]

This is massively embarrassing and cringeworthy for the UK.
It's literally up there with Trump levels of "go feck yourselves" to the public.
We'll do what we want.

The man had at least two people in the car that potentially Covid19.
The whole idea of lockdown is to prevent spreading the virus by keeping people in the area they reside. Preferably at home.
He broke that rule. He has no excuse.
He works for the government for feck sake he could have asked for help.
Boris shouldn't be defending him. That's also another feck you to the public. A bigger one

Massive embarrassment and shame.
What a mess the UK govt is. A total shambles lead by a cretin

 

[SteveJ]

Dom-estic abuse.

 

[Paxi]

People keep laughing at Trump and the US but honestly we're outdoing them.

Imagine tryint to claim you drove 30 miles to try and test your eyesight and being so stupid you think people will actually believe this. You might as well say you drove 30 miles to make sure you hadn't turned into a squid.

At least Trump would sack him as it

The simplest answers are usually the true ones. So did Cummings breach the guidelines because;

A) he couldn't get childcare in London so he went 260 miles North to stay with family so that they could watch the kid and then took a trip to test his eyesight before coming back to London for childcare that had magically just appeared.

Or

B) he took his family up to his parents' country estate for a holiday and got caught.

And the answer doesn't matter because the problem was breaching the guidelines in the first place.

Think on the day he took them to Durham was either his mother or fathers birthday and on the day he took himself for an eye test to a beauty spot was his wife's birthday. I'm happy to be corrected on this.

 

[Berbasbullet]

he didn’t though did he.

if you take him at his word (whether you believe that is a different question), then he didn’t do the opposite of the guidelines.

You can argue that the guidelines could have/ should have been clearer - but it’s near impossible to give guidelines for every single possibility - again that’s a different point.

At the start of this, half the police force were implementing different interpretations of what you could and couldn’t do. This is why laws, rules and regs take lots of time and iterations to get right, but clearly the government had to get guidance out quickly.

Come on, he absolutely broke the guidelines, even if you believe his story he still broke them.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

How didn't he breach guidelines exactly? He travelled 260 miles in a car to his parents' house. Where in the guidelines does it state anything about that being essential travel? Genuine question, because I've heard Cummings say that the guidelines say his case is covered and yet nobody can provide what it is that he's talking about.

he read out the relevant guidance in relation to childcare.

 

[NinjaFletch]

he didn’t though did he.

if you take him at his word (whether you believe that is a different question), then he didn’t do the opposite of the guidelines.

.

Can i interest you in a bridge I have for sale?

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Can i interest you in a bridge I have for sale?

sure, why not?

 

[Fingeredmouse]

yes I struggle to read massive blocks of text, don’t you?

that’s why you have gaps between paragraphs - if you need an example, just pick up a book and go to any page.

Honestly, I find it quite easy to read in a structure of paragraphs consisting of more than one sentence.

I think your definition of "massive" is on a rather scale different to mine.

 

[Rooney24]

How didn't he breach guidelines exactly? He travelled 260 miles in a car to his parents' house. Where in the guidelines does it state anything about that being essential travel? Genuine question, because I've heard Cummings say that the guidelines say his case is covered and yet nobody can provide what it is that he's talking about.

The cynic in me says he has had a few days to pore over the Guidelines and make sure his version of events fits them.

Lets just call it what it is from him - complete bullshit.

99.99999999% of the country had the message drilled into them - if you or somepne you have been in contact with show symptoms, stay at home and self Isolate. What he has done flies in the face of that despite his story.

 

[Paxi]

Tweet

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[Rams]

And the answer doesn't matter because the problem was breaching the guidelines in the first place.

Exactly. We already knew Cummings is a cynical unscrupulous liar from the Brexit campaign. What isn’t acceptable is that one of the most important figures in the government breached it’s own guidelines.

 

[Tibs]

Staggering. Not just the clear BS, but that an unelected adviser gets a press conference in the Downing St garden.

Utter shit show, unless anything else damaging comes out over the next few days, he's in the clear now.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Honestly, I find it quite easy to read in a structure of paragraphs consisting of more than one sentence.

I think your definition of "massive" is on a rather scale different to mine.

I’d say a paragraph of 23 lines of text is massive.

 

[Paxi]

Tweet

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[Berbasbullet]

Tweet

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This! Otherwise the entire country would be able to do what they want.

 

[Dobba]

He's 100% in the clear, none of the vocal Tories will take a stand (whilst he clearly has serious dirt on vast amounts of the others) and the Labour leadership want to punt the issue into the long grass. The most Cummings has to worry about is a 3 minute segment on HIGNFY.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

I’d say a paragraph of 23 lines of text is massive.

Good stuff. That'd be a very common number of sentences in those book things you obnoxiously suggested I look at earlier.

To follow the spirit of your line of questioning regarding distances travelled earlier: how many lines would you consider to not be massive? 19? 12? 8? Or would it simply be whatever length of paragraph Dominic Cummings happened to use that would just the right length of paragraph to avoid the wrath of your partizan belligerent pedantry?

 

[TheReligion]

Exactly, but we have a government who is enabling people to do that.
Saying we have to be better than that is admirable but I know a few people who are already intent on breaking the rules because they don't like the fact that it's one rule for them and another for us.
Don't get me wrong, I followed government lockdown rules to a t and
I'll still follow the guidelines, but not because the government tells me to, but because I don't want some vulnerable person to die because of me. But my trust in this government is completely gone, although, I do live in Northern Ireland so we're not under the same leadership but still.

I don't disagree with any of that. Of course you can pick holes in the legislation or use the examples of other people's selfishness to justify your own rule breaking but that's the attitude and behaviour of a cretin who isn't taking the guidance in the spirit it was intended.

We are doing this to save lives and help the NHS not to serve our own needs.

 

[macheda14]

is this something the media and government should be focusing on and dedicating days to get to the bottom of - no.

is every political opponent jumping on this and making it more of a story to gain politically - obviously yes (as always happens in opposition).

To these two points:
- the chief advisor to the prime minister very very possibly broke lockdown.
- Up until this point a few figures in the government and on scientific advisory boards have been pushed to resign for breaking lockdown, therefore there is precedent.
-All of the noise coming out of the government when this broke out is that he would be backed.
- it is well know that the only way to hold someone accountable is to put pressure on them. The most recent example being Boris finally reversing his decision for the health care worker fee.

Therefore, should time and effort be put into working out the true nature of his actions? Yes. He holds a position that makes everything he does accountable. An incredible amount of people have had to sacrifice quite a lot during this lock down. You can’t have an advisor flagrantly disregarding the rules.

Is the opposition politicising this? Well yes, in terms of this being politics by its very nature it is politicised. But no. They are putting pressure on a government that has embarrassed itself on the global stage with its response to this crisis. It is their job to put this pressure on the government. If the Tories don’t have an opposition to hold their actions accountable then they can do whatever they want. By your line of argument every time the opposition disagrees with something it’s them ‘taking advantage’ rather than doing their job.

(I hope the final paragraph wasn’t too long for you - if it is maybe you should stop off at Castle Barnard to test your eyes)