Westminster Politics

sun_tzu

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RedSky said:
Surely you'd have assumed this could have occurred and setup contingencies? Y'know, covering all bases and being prepared for all outcomes? Yet another glowing example of how shite our Government is at handling any kind of event.
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you have to wonder what our intelligence services were briefing about this... I know the last USA report that was made pubic said Kabul might be surrounded in a month and fall in three months (this seemed to assume there would be a siege / fighting)

If they came to the same conclusion clearly they were wrong
If they just assumed the USA report was correct that's probably even worse than coming to the wrong conclusion
If they actually briefed wht has happened was a possibility / probability then yes the government should have had a better plan in place

It does seem surprising looking at the timeline though that at least a week ago there wasn't at least offer of repatriation flights for UK residents and anybody who worked with the UK forces?...

What's happened recently?

Since President Biden made the announcement in April a bad situation for the Afghan government has turned into a perilous one. Here's what's happened in recent months:

  • May 4, the Taliban launches an offensive across the country focusing on the southern Helmand province.
  • May 11, the Taliban capture Nerkh, just outside Kabul and fighting intensifies across the country.
  • June 7, more than 150 Afghan soldiers are killed in less than 24 hours as the government begins to lose ground.
  • June 22, the fighting spreads to the north, away from the Taliban's traditional strongholds in the south of the country and they seize several districts.
  • July 2, the US pulls out of the Bagram airbase - once the centre of all US operations in the country - without telling their Afghan counterparts. US ground operations in Afghanistan effectively come to an end.
  • August 6, a new rapid offensive by the Taliban begins and they claim their first provincial capital, Zaranj, in the south of the country.
  • August 7, another provincial capital, Sheberghan, in the north falls to the Taliban.
  • August 8, the Taliban seize control of three more provincial capitals in the north, Sar-e-Pul, Taloqan and the large and strategically important city of Kunduz.
  • August 9, Aybak, another provincial capital, in the north is taken by the Taliban.
  • August 10, provincial capital Pul-e-Khumri falls to the Taliban.
  • August 11, the northern provincial capitals of Fayzabad falls to the Taliban in the north while they also seize control of Farah in the west.
  • August 12, Afghanistan's second and third largest cities, Kandahar and Herat, were captured just hours after the takeover of Ghazni. Lashkar Gar city was also taken.
  • August 14 - The Taliban captured Logar province, including its capital Pul-i-Alam. The province is just south of Kabul. It also captured Mazar-e-Sharif - a large, heavily defended city in northern Afghanistan.
  • August 15 - The insurgents entered the presidential palace in the capital of Kabul and said they would soon declare the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. President Ashraf Ghani also left the country for neighbouring Tajikistan. The insurgents also seized Jalalabad, the capital of Nangarhar province.
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I do wonder how much the withdrawal from Bagram without communication hurt the moral of the Afghan forces and made them realise they were on their own... just seems a strange way to treat supposed allies?
 

Buster15

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sun_tzu said:
you have to wonder what our intelligence services were briefing about this... I know the last USA report that was made pubic said Kabul might be surrounded in a month and fall in three months (this seemed to assume there would be a siege / fighting)

If they came to the same conclusion clearly they were wrong
If they just assumed the USA report was correct that's probably even worse than coming to the wrong conclusion
If they actually briefed wht has happened was a possibility / probability then yes the government should have had a better plan in place

It does seem surprising looking at the timeline though that at least a week ago there wasn't at least offer of repatriation flights for UK residents and anybody who worked with the UK forces?...



I do wonder how much the withdrawal from Bagram without communication hurt the moral of the Afghan forces and made them realise they were on their own... just seems a strange way to treat supposed allies?
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In addition to that, my understanding is that when the US pulled out, they also withdrew all the support services which the Afghans relied upon and had been trained to use.
 

sun_tzu

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Buster15 said:
In addition to that, my understanding is that when the US pulled out, they also withdrew all the support services which the Afghans relied upon and had been trained to use.
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yes I believe they also provided the logistics support to other Nato allies and the withdrawal of that is what forced a number of nato allies to scale back they realised they couldnt adequately support their own troops safely without that logistics infra
 

Mr Pigeon

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Paxi said:
If a civilian did that then they’d be arrested surely?
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I'm positive I said this earlier but every time they say that they forgot the passcode to their phones and then accidentally wiped them I call absolute bullshit on that. They're all on iPhones, which means they'll use the Jamf management service. Most of my day to day work with Jamf involves resetting folk's passcodes or unlocking devices.
 

Paxi

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Mr Pigeon said:
I'm positive I said this earlier but every time they say that they forgot the passcode to their phones and then accidentally wiped them I call absolute bullshit on that. They're all on iPhones, which means they'll use the Jamf management service. Most of my day to day work with Jamf involves resetting folk's passcodes or unlocking devices.
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I don’t know what jamf is to be honest with you but I heard criminals use hacked phones that have hidden encrypted os installed.
 

Abizzz

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Drainy said:
The Donald is clearly playing the long game. Obviously.

I'm mocking the idea that Trump was a hidden genius, that many conservatives seemed to think.
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Oh, I get you now. I thought you were insinuating that people were trying to find ways to blame Trump for this despite it being on Bidens watch. My bad.
 

Buster15

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sun_tzu said:
yes I believe they also provided the logistics support to other Nato allies and the withdrawal of that is what forced a number of nato allies to scale back they realised they couldnt adequately support their own troops safely without that logistics infra
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Quite correct. Not sure how much notice the other allies were given if any.
What a mess eh.
 

Mr Pigeon

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To be fair, if he can't even count how many kids he has what chance does he have of being able to tell what time it is?
 

Jericholyte2

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I see Sajid Javid is opening the 1st of the 48 new hospitals, turns out it's actually a Cancer Care Facility attached to an already-existing hospital.

I, for one, am shocked by this un-truth!
 

Ekkie Thump

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I haven't really been following the news closely of late but do I have this right: Raab was too enthused by his jollies to make a simple phone call and as a result people will die?
 

Buster15

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Paul the Wolf said:
Perfectly qualified:
Ardent Brexiteer, pathological liar, totally incompetent.

Probably your next Prime Minister.
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Quite true. But so are all the other members of Boris cabinet. Including of course the most inept and incompetent of them all.... the PM himself.
 

sun_tzu

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DavidDeSchmikes said:
Don't see Raab winning a Tory leadership contest tbh,
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Sunak... gove... javid or patel all more likley that raab I think

Not impossible but would take a fall from grace from a couple of the others and him pulling out a much better campaign than he managed before

Personally I'd never underestimate goves ambition and the lengths he would go to to lie his way into the top job
 

Paul the Wolf

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DavidDeSchmikes said:
Don't see Raab winning a Tory leadership contest tbh,
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TheReligion said:
Probably not. Would be suicide from the Tory's to choose him as leader. More likely to be Sunak I imagine.
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He fulfils the current criteria. They're all as bad as each other though. Actually I'm going for Hunt to come off the backbenches.
 

DavidDeSchmikes

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Paul the Wolf said:
He fulfils the current criteria. They're all as bad as each other though. Actually I'm going for Hunt to come off the backbenches.
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the thing that Hunt has going for him is that he hasn't been part of this cabinet and can be seen as the 'adult in the room' (sensible, inoffensive, looks smart, not being Boris Johnson etc). He did come 2nd in the last leadership contest as well
 

Pexbo

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esmufc07 said:
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I’m past being annoyed with these people. I just kinda feel sorry for them, they really are just absolutely pathetic creatures that wouldn’t last 10 minutes in the real world without weening off the tit of the privilege they were born into.
 
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